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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On July 08 2017 21:52 DieuCure wrote: But for you The Red Viper, GOAT = the best in tournaments or the most skilled player ? Results are the only objective data we can gather about skill, so it's basically the same | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
Just watch his TvZ against Rogue, he showed way more skills than he did when he won IEM | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
But if your "skill" cannot produce results then there is no point. Players play the game to win matches, not to have forum posters argue abotu their subjective view on "skill". | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
 Well everybody has a vague subjective idea without looking at all the data, personally i think players like Life, Mvp, soO, Zest, Innovation could all be fairly close in a possible ranking. A lot will depend on the proleague points in the end, what do you guys think about it? How important should it really be in comparison? | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
I don't think that there is an objective way to assign points to proleague. Make it a free parameter and for each value with a reasonable step sum for all top 20 players the number of ranks shifted by including the proleague, then pick a value that gives you something desirable, say 40. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
In general i don't wanna "fine tune" values based on the end result though, that would basically mean my own bias isn't happy with the result and wants to change it. That seems flawed. But yeah proleague will be interesting, as i said somewhere else already, nerfign the old kespa ranking relative value seems to be a good idea. But in general proleague will count for quite a bit, i think it was important in the sc2 scene, in fact so important that proleague players would regularly not be able to go to other events. | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
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ejozl
Denmark3491 Posts
I think it's tough, since players are fielded at a different rate. As an example herO was an extremely important player for CJ.Entus and so compared to a player on a more stacked team, I can easily see rankings favour him. Then again being on a team that gets far into the tournament also give you more chances to perform. I also feel like all-killing should get you a small bonus, but then again you can argue that if RyunG hadn't all-killed this VSL, mb INnoVation would've. Would love to hear what you find out regarding this. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
Basically a system kespa used to rank players in the bw era. They included proleague and it was basically 1:1 in importance with individual leagues. | ||
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ToToRo87
Greece8 Posts
prove stuchiu right Anyways, I will propose an alternative system that just came to me while brainstorming. It's not perfect, it's just an idea that I have but if it sounds appealing we can think it through, discuss it and go for a few test runs in order to see if it reflects perfect sense. The core of the idea is a standard statistical calibration: every player starts with a base score, I'd go for 1. Then every tournament in chronological order will acquire a tier list based on the mean + outlier of the participants (values to be regulated, let's call that variable T) and every win will award/discard an amount of points that reflect the point system between the two players (in a way standard ELO), regulated by a factor for a bo1,3,5,7 series and the aforementioned variable T. Of course some tiers will have to be assigned, especially in the beginning (Fruitdealer anyone?) but in the long run where the points of the players reflect an greater sample of games (and thus, more accurate) I believe it will be representative. It might not make any sense, as I'm about to go to bed now, but I hope I came through with my blueprint. Lemme know if it strikes your fancy! P.S. I know I have a low post count, I'm your typical lurker (pun intended). Please don't take this into consideration! :D | ||
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virpi
Germany3599 Posts
WoL: Mvp, no doubt here. HotS: Life, also no real doubt. (sOs and Innovation are contenders, though) As for LotV, it gets harder. Nobody has really dominated the korean scene. Stats, Inno, Ty have put up some nice results. Overall, I think it's a close call between Mvp and Life. Both have won lots of big tournaments and both have been dominant in their prime. A good possibility to calculate the GOAT would be raw ELO. (peak / consistency) | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
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ToToRo87
Greece8 Posts
On September 12 2017 05:53 opisska wrote: Elo is not an abbreviation, but a name of an acutal person an thus should never be written "ELO". It's done to differentiate the person from the ranking system, no salt needed. | ||
Poopi
France12912 Posts
No other player was able to change the paradigm of the game that much in spite of being in a bad environment with much worse players. Basically he shadow played sc2 to top KR level. | ||
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Mun_Su
France2063 Posts
The_Red_Viper: does winrate count ? since last decembre INnoVation is at 79% overall winrate in offline (in matches, not game played), 89% TvZ, 74% TvP and 71% TvT (50% from the start of 2017 to may, and something like 92% since june) Who ever came close to this in a year ? | ||
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