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Play some Gwent?

Blogs > BEARDiaguz
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BEARDiaguz
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Australia2362 Posts
June 05 2017 09:41 GMT
#1
*smiles and nods*



I’m not up to date on the latest in business developments but I’m fairly certain the smartest business move made in 2015 was CD Projekt Red releasing The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt. An epic tale of a man who gives up his job as a monster hunter (in a Fantasy land that’s what you’d get if Middle Earth was run by the Lannisters) to pursue a career in wandering the earth and asking strangers if they’d like to play a card game called Gwent. Some other shit happens too, I think, memory’s a bit fuzzy. All I recall is a part where immediately after helping a man put the restless soul of his miscarried daughter to rest and imploring him to think about what he’s done I could ask him to play Gwent which he cheerfully agreed to. If that doesn’t convince you video games aren’t art then I don’t know what will. Anyway, CD Projekt Red are done making The Witcher games but there’s still a bit more money to be wrung out from the franchise so they figured they’d take Gwent and make it into a standalone online card game. I guess they figured since they beat all the Western RPG makers at their own game they should move on to trying to beat all the Western OCG makers too. And best of fucking luck going up against Blizzard there lads, they’ve repurposed bigger competition than you into fashionable seat cushions.

So Gwent’s not your ordinary card game. Forget all that crap about gaining mana or tempo or card advantage or summoning sickness or life totals or top decking or mad RNG skills, Gwent works on simple yet very unusual rules. You got a deck of 25 cards, mostly creatures that have a strength value and some spells that do other things. Both players start with an 11 card hand and take turns playing one card at a time. Instead of playing a card, players can opt to pass the round, which means they don’t play any more cards. Once both players have passed, or run out of cards, the round ends and whoever has the most strength wins. Whoever wins two rounds first wins the match, and between rounds 2 and 3 you get to draw 3 additional cards. It’s kind of structured like a bidding war except this is an auction where you can undercut your opponent by setting their bids on fire. Also it’s pretty damn fun.

By eschewing the norms of typical card games Gwent gives the player, on average, more interesting games. You don’t get run over by some cunt who shows up with handfuls of 1 drops; if your deck is full of sweet cards you will get to play sweet cards. And with a smaller deck size combined with plenty of mulligans and deck thinning effects your decks will be consistent in whatever it’s trying to do. And there’s a lot of different strategies you can base a deck around. You could play the Nilfgaard faction and enjoy playing minions that go on your opponent’s side but do something really cool in return. You could play Monsters and play disposable minions alongside minions that love to eat other minions. You could play Skellige and spend the first few rounds piling up the graveyard with incredible minions and then bring them back with numerous reanimation effects. Or you could play Scoia’tael and try and abuse minions that stay on the board between rounds. Or you could play Northern Realms who, as of the current patch anyway, can flop around longing for death like a Magikarp. And so much more to discover! Or you could just look for sweet decks on the internet and play those, I guess there’s that too.

Consistency is the game’s strength but I feel it might also be a weakness. To paraphrase Lead Magic: the Gathering designer Mark Rosewater: RNG is good for games since it allows weaker players to beat stronger ones and it makes for a great deal of unpredictability in how games will play out, meaning it’ll take longer for players to get bored. Gwent is very much RNG-lite and generally rewards the more skilled player to a greater degree than a lot of other card games do. The lifespan of the game for most players will come down to how much fun you can squeeze out of all the different decks you’ll get to make and here’s where Gwent cocks it up quite badly.

Now I know this is a common complaint amongst card games, but Gwent’s too fucking expensive to play. I know free to play games survive on whale hunting and not lazy, cheapskate sc2 progamers like myself, but come on. The money to card value ratio is completely fucked. No. Stop. Do not tell me that Magic and Hearthstone are also expensive and therefore it’s ok. Fuck off. These are video games, they should be priced as such. If I pay $100 USD for a video game I should expect to receive at least most of what you have on offer but after you’ve got most of the Bronze cards (which you’ll get for about half of that amount, I’ve checked), getting additional packs adds so little to your collection it’s insulting. Like, here’s the math (which I’ll put in spoilers because math is boring)

+ Show Spoiler +
So one keg gives 5 cards. The chance to get a Gold card in a keg is roughly 1 in 10. A Silver is about 1 in 5 and the rest are Bronzes (there’s two categories of Bronze cards, which is confusing, but if you don’t get a Silver or Gold you’re guaranteed a Large Bronze, maybe more).

Kegs are sold in numerous bundle packages, the most efficient being 60 Kegs for $70 USD. So for 60 Kegs you’ll get, on average, 12 Silvers and 6 Golds, out of a possible 103 Silvers and 65 Golds, spread out amongst the 5 factions and a Neutral card pool. The game starts you out with about 12 Silver cards and 10 Golds, but duplicates can still be opened.

Note that these can very easily be cards in decks you might not want to play or already have. Just like Hearthstone you can scrap cards you don’t want into crafting materials in order to get the cards you want. Problem: the scrap economy is fucked too. Scrapping Small Bronze cards give you 5 scrap, Large bronze 10, Silvers 50 and Golds 200. Crafting Silvers costs 200 scrap and Golds a staggering 800. Considering the average keg gives 30 scrap, that means you have to get approximately 27 average kegs to get the value of a single Gold card.

Every deck has to play 4 Gold cards and 6 Silver cards, and certain decks rely heavily on having the right ones available. You can see why I think this is all fucking bullshit, right?


This would all be ameliorated somewhat if the Free to Play rewards handed out cards and crafting material at a much greater rate. Currently it can be best compared to the last few drops that must be shaken out after a wee. What would also have helped is a Limited gameplay mode, like Hearthstone’s Arena or Magic’s Booster Draft. Not only would it provide a whole new way to enjoy the game but you’d get to play with all sorts of decks and situations you wouldn’t see normally. Gwent lacks this. There’s a small set of single player challenges which is pretty good for new players but after that you get to hit find match or find unranked casual match (where people play sweet decks anyway).

As it stands you get to enjoy a few early ranks with all the other new players coming to grips with what they have until you hit people who can afford to spend hundreds on sweet net decks and oh fuck now the game’s not fun anymore. I don’t want to scrap 3/5 ‘ths of my collection just to get the one or two more cards required to round out the one or two decks I’ve got since then all I can do is grind those decks out for weeks until I’ve got enough to make the Golds and silvers necessary to get another deck to grind out for weeks and ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Sure I could throw together a weaker deck but I’ve ranked up so high with my good deck I’ll be hitting good players who are actually trying and oh fuck this game.

This is why I predict Gwent, for all it’s charms (and it sure is a charming game, I do love me some Witcher lore and that Slavic folk music inspired soundtrack, fuck yeah blast that shit) will fail to have real longevity for most of us 99 percenter shitmunchers. There’s only so many times I can bear to play my John Calveit Nilfgaard spy deck before I’m just gonna look on Steam for something else to do whilst I drink heavily. Which is a damned shame since I like CD Projekt Red. You don’t get a lot of high quality game development from the Slavic region, and we could sure to do have more successful online card games at the moment. Do at least sample Gwent but prepare to move on sooner than you’d think.








Oh yeah, and what the fuck is with Emhyr Var Emreis not being voiced by Charles Dance? Just use the voice lines you had in Witcher 3 dangit! I’m sure the royalties don’t cost that much.


****
ProgamerAustralian alcohol user follow @iaguzSC2
Nerchio
Profile Joined October 2009
Poland2633 Posts
June 05 2017 18:27 GMT
#2
On June 05 2017 18:41 BEARDiaguz wrote:
What would also have helped is a Limited gameplay mode, like Hearthstone’s Arena or Magic’s Booster Draft. Not only would it provide a whole new way to enjoy the game but you’d get to play with all sorts of decks and situations you wouldn’t see normally. Gwent lacks this. There’s a small set of single player challenges which is pretty good for new players but after that you get to hit find match or find unranked casual match (where people play sweet decks anyway).

The game was in early beta and only now goes into open beta stage, I am pretty sure they will add more of stuff like this.
Progamer"I am the best" - Nerchio , 2017.
BEARDiaguz
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Australia2362 Posts
June 06 2017 02:36 GMT
#3
I played a bit of Gwent's Closed beta when it initially dropped, well before Nilfgaard was even in the game. I don't recall them ever saying anything about a Limited Mode, and blimey it's well past time to be introducing that now the game's pretty much ready for primetime.
ProgamerAustralian alcohol user follow @iaguzSC2
Laurens
Profile Joined September 2010
Belgium4544 Posts
June 06 2017 08:32 GMT
#4
On June 06 2017 11:36 BEARDiaguz wrote:
I played a bit of Gwent's Closed beta when it initially dropped, well before Nilfgaard was even in the game. I don't recall them ever saying anything about a Limited Mode, and blimey it's well past time to be introducing that now the game's pretty much ready for primetime.


They've promised Single player campaigns once the game hits launch (version 1.0)

What that entails exactly isn't clear, but they said it'd be 20 hours of content (IIRC). I believe you have to pay with real money to access these campaigns though.
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
June 06 2017 17:06 GMT
#5
I stopped playing because the game was too expensive and I don't have enough time to play every day, but was still getting bored because to play for free I had to play the same deck over and over.

I would have just put money into it but you don't get very much for what you spend.
Lucumo
Profile Joined January 2010
6850 Posts
June 06 2017 21:37 GMT
#6
On June 07 2017 02:06 travis wrote:
I stopped playing because the game was too expensive and I don't have enough time to play every day, but was still getting bored because to play for free I had to play the same deck over and over.

I would have just put money into it but you don't get very much for what you spend.

How do you have to play the same deck over and over if you have five factions and their starting deck?
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
June 06 2017 21:49 GMT
#7
On June 07 2017 06:37 Lucumo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2017 02:06 travis wrote:
I stopped playing because the game was too expensive and I don't have enough time to play every day, but was still getting bored because to play for free I had to play the same deck over and over.

I would have just put money into it but you don't get very much for what you spend.

How do you have to play the same deck over and over if you have five factions and their starting deck?


because i like to play good decks so I don't get shit on
Zaros
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom3692 Posts
June 07 2017 07:11 GMT
#8
On June 07 2017 02:06 travis wrote:
I stopped playing because the game was too expensive and I don't have enough time to play every day, but was still getting bored because to play for free I had to play the same deck over and over.

I would have just put money into it but you don't get very much for what you spend.


Well they are going to double the scraps you get from commons and rares now so it will make it easier to complete your collection, how much of an impact it will have I don't know though.
blunderfulguy
Profile Blog Joined April 2016
United States1415 Posts
June 07 2017 09:57 GMT
#9
My thinking behind why they don't have and haven't announced/thought of a limited play mode is: because of the drastically different ebb and flow Gwent has compared to other card games out there as well as the way Factions and a Faction Leaders work, it wouldn't benefit from a draft mode in the same way that every T/C/WhateverCG since MtG does. I don't personally care all that much for any of the Single Player CG experiences out there at the moment and I don't think that Gwent's will fill in that limited play gap for most people, but if they added a "pay a little money/ore to open X packs and make a deck" mode that made sense, I'm not convinced that would fill it in either.

Yet, somehow I don't really feel that the types of players that Gwent is made for really want that kind of game type at all. I suppose if I think about it like Bridge, my grandfather doesn't need, and certainly wouldn't care for, a "Draft Mode" in Bridge because the game's rules and it's strategies have everything that Bridge players already want, and the game was designed from the ground up (I assume) to be it's own game, not to appeal to a large audience. Just like how the Witcher series was made and how the Witcher video game series was made.

Ya know, I kinda feel the same way about this aspect of Gwent as I do about Multiplayer (Team-based) StarCraft/SC2 modes: I could care less how much more popular the game would be if the extra modes were worked on by a massive team 24/7 because this game isn't about the things that the "popular" games are about. It's difficultly and nicheness (?) make it unique and make it perfect for the small group of players it has. It's the kind of game that shouldn't be made for the masses, and would probably be a worse game if it were (insert links to every boring digital TCG or moba currently available here).

Idk if that made any damn sense but that's my (long-winded) penny thrown in!
Blunder Man doing everything thing a blunder can.
Kingsky
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Singapore298 Posts
June 10 2017 19:13 GMT
#10
gwent needs to be on mobile. it would be actually good on mobile imo; just make lower graphics and i think gwent will be huge
Why do people hate the Colossus? Because the Colossus is like banksters from Wall Street: “too big to fail”. - TheDwF
jimminy_kriket
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Canada5509 Posts
June 11 2017 07:51 GMT
#11
You are a wonderful writer. Super enjoyable blogs.
life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
Bahiyaa
Profile Joined September 2013
Germany24 Posts
June 11 2017 14:59 GMT
#12
I think this game is a loot of fun and way less RNG then Hearthstone which I like. I have a lot of cool close games, but I also invested 150€ by now.
So when the new Patch hits I will get a lot of Dust refund and I saved my bronzes to mill for new Dust value -> then I will nearly have every card and can play a lot of decks. The double bronze value will make things a lot easier!

And to choose your Gold or Silver from 3 cards is soo huge I love it. I can really get the cards for my favourite Decks.
I spent the same amount in Hearthstone as it released and I was really unlucky too, but really I hadnt much cards after so much money, all the good legends were missing, I had to craft a lot of cards so a lot less value for the Money is given in Hearthstone from my point of view.
Actually I spend like 300-400€ in Hearthstone until now and I am far away from having all the cards. Even though I dust a lot, because Paladin, Druid and Warrior never excited me, its so frustrating if you get a legendary for them, in Gwent I can always choose one of the other two cards on screen.

I hope some new cards in future will mix the gameplay up so it doesn't become stale. RNG can really make some epic moments but I think for competition it can hurt a little.

I am looking forward to see how Gwent will develope!
Laurens
Profile Joined September 2010
Belgium4544 Posts
June 12 2017 06:15 GMT
#13
So when the new Patch hits I will get a lot of Dust refund and I saved my bronzes to mill for new Dust value -> then I will nearly have every card and can play a lot of decks.


Are you sure about that? How many legendaries do you have atm?

I read that people have spent upwards of 600$+ and still did not have a full collection.

The problem with Gwent is that there are 81 Legendaries in the base set, which is a huge amount. Granted you can get 23 for free from challenges etc, that still leaves 58 legendaries to collect/craft.
For comparison, the HS classic set had 31 legendaries to collect.

So if we compare Gwent base with HS Classic set, HS is actually cheaper to get all cards (you can use a simulator such as http://www.carddust.com/#Classic, it's around 570$ for the full classic set)

Of course if you count all cards from HS expansions this is no longer the case.
Glacierz
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1244 Posts
June 12 2017 16:54 GMT
#14
On June 12 2017 15:15 Laurens wrote:
I read that people have spent upwards of 600$+ and still did not have a full collection.

This is sadly true, but building a full collection in this game isn't as important given many legendaries will not see much play. You also earn kegs faster than in HS, the reward system is more generous for F2P grinders. With the upcoming buff to milling value, building a single tier one deck competitively should be fairly achievable as F2P.
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