• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:50
CET 07:50
KST 15:50
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT29Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains7Weekly Cups (March 2-8): ByuN overcomes PvT block4GSL CK - New online series18BSL Season 224Vitality ends partnership with ONSYDE20
StarCraft 2
General
Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains GSL CK - New online series Weekly Cups (March 2-8): ByuN overcomes PvT block Weekly Cups (Feb 23-Mar 1): herO doubles, 2v2 bonanza Vitality ends partnership with ONSYDE
Tourneys
[GSL CK] Team Maru vs. Team herO WardiTV Team League Season 10 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 516 Specter of Death Mutation # 515 Together Forever Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year
Brood War
General
Are you ready for ASL 21? Hype VIDEO ASL21 General Discussion Gypsy to Korea BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Recent recommended BW games
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues IPSL Spring 2026 is here! ASL Season 21 Qualifiers March 7-8 BWCL Season 64 Announcement
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread Path of Exile No Man's Sky (PS4 and PC) Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Mexico's Drug War Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion General nutrition recommendations Cricket [SPORT] TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Gaming-Related Deaths
TrAiDoS
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2058 users

Towards a good SC bot - Month 2 Report

Blogs > imp42
Post a Reply
imp42
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
398 Posts
November 15 2016 16:05 GMT
#1
Towards a good StarCraft bot - Month 2 - Progress Report

Last month I pointed out several issues, such as:
- Poor development and testing environment
- Lack of setup to play two bots against each other
- Unmodifiable maps

I also promised to write how the type-safe API turned out. So, let’s go through these points:

Development and Testing Environment

Requirements towards a development and testing environment:

- Stability
Obviously, it should never crash. It should not require constant modifications.

- Fast test iterations
“Fail fast” (a term adopted from the lean startup methodology) applies here too . Hot swapping code (altering the code while it executes by rewriting the source, compiling on-the-fly and then swap it with the running code) really speeds up the development process.

- Traceability
Probably one of the most important features is a reliable way to link outcomes to causes. The “Credit Assignment” problem of development, so to speak… This mostly translates to good support for modular tests and a good debugger.

- Ease of use
It would be nice if you could achieve what you have in mind with relative ease. Without having to e.g. debug the development tools first, or do a lot of pre-processing steps. etc.

I am in the process of changing several parts in the tool chain. It probably deserves its own post in the near future. Some parts I am experimenting with, in random order:

- Eclipse IDE vs IntelliJ IDEA
- GNU Prolog for Javavs SWI-Prolog
- BwMirror 2.5
- BWAPI 4.0.2
- BWTA2
- Checkstyle / PMD
- Git / GitHub
- Gradle
- Quasar Fibers (lightweight threads for Java)
- Torch 7 / Lua (Neural Net programming)
- Weka 3 (Machine Learning)
- MaryTTS (speech synth)
- Windows 10 vs Ubuntu 16 (Mint)

In conclusion, I feel like the (lack of a good) development environment is one of the issues that holds back bot developers. Therefore, I am looking into providing such an environment out-of-the-box to lower the entry barrier for future developers.

Playing two bots against each other

Solved. Multi-instance Chaoslauncher now works fine. I can run two bots as Java processes together with two instances of Brood War on the same machine.

Unmodifiable maps

Solved. I got a version of Fighting Spirit which I could modify to allow for single-player or multi-player marines-only games.

Type-Safe API

Personally, type-safe development helps me a lot. I often find myself in a position where I could do things “the proper way”, with considerable effort. Or “cheating just a little bit” to get results faster, because “I can always do it the proper way later”. Well, “later” is usually “never” and that’s how technical debt accumulates. For most developers that means nobody else will understand their code. For me it means not even I will understand my own code two months from now. Type-safe environments enforce “the proper way” to some extent. It is definitely more difficult to cheat (circumventing your own software architecture guidelines for the benefit of a quick win), so you might as well do it the right way to start with.

To summarize, by now I am so convinced that I decided to release a type-safe Java API for BWAPI. It will probably be out early 2017.

Last but not least, a big announcement was made a couple of days ago:

Blizzard provides an API for SC2

This has of course already been discussed in the forums. No need to re-iterate all the points made. Let me just state two things:
- The statement that Brood War and StarCraft 2 are two different games is true even more so for AI / bots than for humans.
- Any researcher would agree that it is a good thing to have as many variables under control as possible.
Personally, I will stick with BW for a good while for sure. Not only do I like the strategic aspect of BW more, but I also feel uncomfortable developing against an API I cannot influence in any way (see the “stability” requirement in the development environment part above). Who knows at what point Blizzard will introduce new patches or even decide to shut down the API because the CEO woke up one day and found he valued paying customers higher than a handful of people doing fancy research.

Credits:
Thanks CardinalAllin!


50 pts Copper League
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18232 Posts
November 16 2016 18:33 GMT
#2
I can't help you with the APIs, but in terms of Prolog, my experience is that running SWI Prolog through the JPL is faster and more stable than JIP, although if I understand things right, this GNU project is new and completely separate from JIP. An alternative is to generate prolog code and can run it as a separate process and just wait for its return. However, this only works if your prolog requirements are fairly large, and mostly independent of your Java code.
DarkNetHunter
Profile Joined October 2012
1224 Posts
November 17 2016 10:41 GMT
#3
I'm enjoying your series of blogs, as a complete non-programmer it's sometimes hard to follow but very much an interesting read!

I am happy you're sticking to BW even though the SC2 API is coming out.

Keep at it, looking forward to seeing the results of your development environment as it pans out!
Learn from the mistakes of others. You can't live long enough to make them all yourself.
Jukado
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
805 Posts
November 19 2016 12:09 GMT
#4
No worries, you can borrow my gamma-neutron demystifier anytime. By the way it also has a demistify setting incase you find yourself caught in a spontaneous indoor cloud formation.
Star Tale Public Domain project. Maps: (2)Gates Of Memphis, (2)Marshmallow Toast, (4)Bubbles, (4)Clay Fields, (6)Numbskull Desert. Also the Vaylu Public Domain Tileset. Also Ramp Palettes, Brood War guides and some fun stuff. Links in my profile
imp42
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
398 Posts
November 23 2016 05:01 GMT
#5
thanks all for your comments and input.
The deeper I dig the slower is the progress. For example, I have spent the last weeks taking several online classes on Neural Networks, in order to understand the concept better. This is obviously a bit of an investment, time-wise. I hope I can still provide content regularly.
50 pts Copper League
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
GSL CK - Day 1
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech130
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 2411
actioN 301
Leta 256
-ZergGirl 87
ZergMaN 64
Sharp 43
Bale 18
ToSsGirL 15
Icarus 7
Dota 2
XaKoH 227
NeuroSwarm116
League of Legends
JimRising 762
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K606
m0e_tv366
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox474
Other Games
WinterStarcraft497
C9.Mang0296
Mew2King33
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick535
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH284
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Scarra1368
• Rush1065
• Stunt568
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
3h 11m
WardiTV Team League
5h 11m
Replay Cast
17h 11m
Replay Cast
1d 17h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
WardiTV Team League
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
BSL
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
3 days
WardiTV Team League
3 days
BSL
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
WardiTV Team League
5 days
GSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-11
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
BSL Season 22
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

CSL Elite League 2026
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
2026 Changsha Offline CUP
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
CSLAN 4
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
NationLESS Cup
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.