• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 12:56
CET 18:56
KST 02:56
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion7Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)16Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7
StarCraft 2
General
PhD study /w SC2 - help with a survey! When will we find out if there are more tournament Stellar Fest "01" Jersey Charity Auction Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win I am looking for StarCraft 2 Beta Patch files
Tourneys
$70 Prize Pool Ladder Legends Academy Weekly Open! SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC2 AI Tournament 2026 $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone
Brood War
General
A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates Gypsy to Korea Video Footage from 2005: The Birth of G2 in Spain
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 Small VOD Thread 2.0 Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Awesome Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread NASA and the Private Sector Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Navigating the Risks and Rew…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1674 users

Towards a good SC bot - Month 2 Report

Blogs > imp42
Post a Reply
imp42
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
398 Posts
November 15 2016 16:05 GMT
#1
Towards a good StarCraft bot - Month 2 - Progress Report

Last month I pointed out several issues, such as:
- Poor development and testing environment
- Lack of setup to play two bots against each other
- Unmodifiable maps

I also promised to write how the type-safe API turned out. So, let’s go through these points:

Development and Testing Environment

Requirements towards a development and testing environment:

- Stability
Obviously, it should never crash. It should not require constant modifications.

- Fast test iterations
“Fail fast” (a term adopted from the lean startup methodology) applies here too . Hot swapping code (altering the code while it executes by rewriting the source, compiling on-the-fly and then swap it with the running code) really speeds up the development process.

- Traceability
Probably one of the most important features is a reliable way to link outcomes to causes. The “Credit Assignment” problem of development, so to speak… This mostly translates to good support for modular tests and a good debugger.

- Ease of use
It would be nice if you could achieve what you have in mind with relative ease. Without having to e.g. debug the development tools first, or do a lot of pre-processing steps. etc.

I am in the process of changing several parts in the tool chain. It probably deserves its own post in the near future. Some parts I am experimenting with, in random order:

- Eclipse IDE vs IntelliJ IDEA
- GNU Prolog for Javavs SWI-Prolog
- BwMirror 2.5
- BWAPI 4.0.2
- BWTA2
- Checkstyle / PMD
- Git / GitHub
- Gradle
- Quasar Fibers (lightweight threads for Java)
- Torch 7 / Lua (Neural Net programming)
- Weka 3 (Machine Learning)
- MaryTTS (speech synth)
- Windows 10 vs Ubuntu 16 (Mint)

In conclusion, I feel like the (lack of a good) development environment is one of the issues that holds back bot developers. Therefore, I am looking into providing such an environment out-of-the-box to lower the entry barrier for future developers.

Playing two bots against each other

Solved. Multi-instance Chaoslauncher now works fine. I can run two bots as Java processes together with two instances of Brood War on the same machine.

Unmodifiable maps

Solved. I got a version of Fighting Spirit which I could modify to allow for single-player or multi-player marines-only games.

Type-Safe API

Personally, type-safe development helps me a lot. I often find myself in a position where I could do things “the proper way”, with considerable effort. Or “cheating just a little bit” to get results faster, because “I can always do it the proper way later”. Well, “later” is usually “never” and that’s how technical debt accumulates. For most developers that means nobody else will understand their code. For me it means not even I will understand my own code two months from now. Type-safe environments enforce “the proper way” to some extent. It is definitely more difficult to cheat (circumventing your own software architecture guidelines for the benefit of a quick win), so you might as well do it the right way to start with.

To summarize, by now I am so convinced that I decided to release a type-safe Java API for BWAPI. It will probably be out early 2017.

Last but not least, a big announcement was made a couple of days ago:

Blizzard provides an API for SC2

This has of course already been discussed in the forums. No need to re-iterate all the points made. Let me just state two things:
- The statement that Brood War and StarCraft 2 are two different games is true even more so for AI / bots than for humans.
- Any researcher would agree that it is a good thing to have as many variables under control as possible.
Personally, I will stick with BW for a good while for sure. Not only do I like the strategic aspect of BW more, but I also feel uncomfortable developing against an API I cannot influence in any way (see the “stability” requirement in the development environment part above). Who knows at what point Blizzard will introduce new patches or even decide to shut down the API because the CEO woke up one day and found he valued paying customers higher than a handful of people doing fancy research.

Credits:
Thanks CardinalAllin!


50 pts Copper League
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18193 Posts
November 16 2016 18:33 GMT
#2
I can't help you with the APIs, but in terms of Prolog, my experience is that running SWI Prolog through the JPL is faster and more stable than JIP, although if I understand things right, this GNU project is new and completely separate from JIP. An alternative is to generate prolog code and can run it as a separate process and just wait for its return. However, this only works if your prolog requirements are fairly large, and mostly independent of your Java code.
DarkNetHunter
Profile Joined October 2012
1224 Posts
November 17 2016 10:41 GMT
#3
I'm enjoying your series of blogs, as a complete non-programmer it's sometimes hard to follow but very much an interesting read!

I am happy you're sticking to BW even though the SC2 API is coming out.

Keep at it, looking forward to seeing the results of your development environment as it pans out!
Learn from the mistakes of others. You can't live long enough to make them all yourself.
Jukado
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
805 Posts
November 19 2016 12:09 GMT
#4
No worries, you can borrow my gamma-neutron demystifier anytime. By the way it also has a demistify setting incase you find yourself caught in a spontaneous indoor cloud formation.
Star Tale Public Domain project. Maps: (2)Gates Of Memphis, (2)Marshmallow Toast, (4)Bubbles, (4)Clay Fields, (6)Numbskull Desert. Also the Vaylu Public Domain Tileset. Also Ramp Palettes, Brood War guides and some fun stuff. Links in my profile
imp42
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
398 Posts
November 23 2016 05:01 GMT
#5
thanks all for your comments and input.
The deeper I dig the slower is the progress. For example, I have spent the last weeks taking several online classes on Neural Networks, in order to understand the concept better. This is obviously a bit of an investment, time-wise. I hope I can still provide content regularly.
50 pts Copper League
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 7h 4m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
UpATreeSC 215
ProTech149
BRAT_OK 126
Livibee 111
JuggernautJason61
FoxeR 56
MindelVK 31
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 8274
Calm 2848
Mini 255
Dewaltoss 93
Hyun 54
Sexy 18
soO 17
Movie 14
HiyA 13
scan(afreeca) 12
Dota 2
Gorgc5360
singsing2239
qojqva1751
Dendi430
febbydoto9
Counter-Strike
Fnx 1447
fl0m1361
byalli615
Other Games
Grubby5222
B2W.Neo1128
Fuzer 495
allub350
DeMusliM299
QueenE156
ArmadaUGS147
Liquid`Hasu136
ToD114
KnowMe38
Beastyqt12
Liquid`Ken8
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Laughngamez YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
• Pr0nogo 6
• Michael_bg 3
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3124
League of Legends
• TFBlade1234
Other Games
• Shiphtur328
• imaqtpie152
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Monday
7h 4m
The PondCast
16h 4m
OSC
17h 4m
Clem vs Cure
ByuN vs TBD
Krystianer vs TBD
herO vs TBD
ShoWTimE vs TBD
Solar vs TBD
Big Brain Bouts
2 days
Serral vs TBD
BSL 21
3 days
BSL 21
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-19
SC2 All-Star Inv. 2025
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W5
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.