• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:06
CEST 16:06
KST 23:06
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro4 Preview: On Course12Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview7[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16
Community News
Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win1Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !10Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event12Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results1
StarCraft 2
General
MaNa leaves Team Liquid Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple
Tourneys
2026 GSL Season 2 Qualifiers $5,000 WardiTV Spring Championship 2026 Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! SC2 INu's Battles#16 <BO.9> Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 525 Wheel of Misfortune The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes Mutation # 523 Firewall
Brood War
General
ASL Tickets to Live Event Finals? Flashes ASL S21 Ro8 Review BW General Discussion Pros React To: Leta vs Tulbo (ASL S21, Ro.8) (Spoiler) Interview ASL Ro4 Day 2 Winner
Tourneys
[ASL21] Semifinals B [ASL21] Semifinals A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL22] RO16 Group Stage - 02 - 10 May
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game PC Games Sales Thread
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How EEG Data Can Predict Gam…
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1251 users

Towards a good SC bot - Month 2 Report

Blogs > imp42
Post a Reply
imp42
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
398 Posts
November 15 2016 16:05 GMT
#1
Towards a good StarCraft bot - Month 2 - Progress Report

Last month I pointed out several issues, such as:
- Poor development and testing environment
- Lack of setup to play two bots against each other
- Unmodifiable maps

I also promised to write how the type-safe API turned out. So, let’s go through these points:

Development and Testing Environment

Requirements towards a development and testing environment:

- Stability
Obviously, it should never crash. It should not require constant modifications.

- Fast test iterations
“Fail fast” (a term adopted from the lean startup methodology) applies here too . Hot swapping code (altering the code while it executes by rewriting the source, compiling on-the-fly and then swap it with the running code) really speeds up the development process.

- Traceability
Probably one of the most important features is a reliable way to link outcomes to causes. The “Credit Assignment” problem of development, so to speak… This mostly translates to good support for modular tests and a good debugger.

- Ease of use
It would be nice if you could achieve what you have in mind with relative ease. Without having to e.g. debug the development tools first, or do a lot of pre-processing steps. etc.

I am in the process of changing several parts in the tool chain. It probably deserves its own post in the near future. Some parts I am experimenting with, in random order:

- Eclipse IDE vs IntelliJ IDEA
- GNU Prolog for Javavs SWI-Prolog
- BwMirror 2.5
- BWAPI 4.0.2
- BWTA2
- Checkstyle / PMD
- Git / GitHub
- Gradle
- Quasar Fibers (lightweight threads for Java)
- Torch 7 / Lua (Neural Net programming)
- Weka 3 (Machine Learning)
- MaryTTS (speech synth)
- Windows 10 vs Ubuntu 16 (Mint)

In conclusion, I feel like the (lack of a good) development environment is one of the issues that holds back bot developers. Therefore, I am looking into providing such an environment out-of-the-box to lower the entry barrier for future developers.

Playing two bots against each other

Solved. Multi-instance Chaoslauncher now works fine. I can run two bots as Java processes together with two instances of Brood War on the same machine.

Unmodifiable maps

Solved. I got a version of Fighting Spirit which I could modify to allow for single-player or multi-player marines-only games.

Type-Safe API

Personally, type-safe development helps me a lot. I often find myself in a position where I could do things “the proper way”, with considerable effort. Or “cheating just a little bit” to get results faster, because “I can always do it the proper way later”. Well, “later” is usually “never” and that’s how technical debt accumulates. For most developers that means nobody else will understand their code. For me it means not even I will understand my own code two months from now. Type-safe environments enforce “the proper way” to some extent. It is definitely more difficult to cheat (circumventing your own software architecture guidelines for the benefit of a quick win), so you might as well do it the right way to start with.

To summarize, by now I am so convinced that I decided to release a type-safe Java API for BWAPI. It will probably be out early 2017.

Last but not least, a big announcement was made a couple of days ago:

Blizzard provides an API for SC2

This has of course already been discussed in the forums. No need to re-iterate all the points made. Let me just state two things:
- The statement that Brood War and StarCraft 2 are two different games is true even more so for AI / bots than for humans.
- Any researcher would agree that it is a good thing to have as many variables under control as possible.
Personally, I will stick with BW for a good while for sure. Not only do I like the strategic aspect of BW more, but I also feel uncomfortable developing against an API I cannot influence in any way (see the “stability” requirement in the development environment part above). Who knows at what point Blizzard will introduce new patches or even decide to shut down the API because the CEO woke up one day and found he valued paying customers higher than a handful of people doing fancy research.

Credits:
Thanks CardinalAllin!


50 pts Copper League
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18291 Posts
November 16 2016 18:33 GMT
#2
I can't help you with the APIs, but in terms of Prolog, my experience is that running SWI Prolog through the JPL is faster and more stable than JIP, although if I understand things right, this GNU project is new and completely separate from JIP. An alternative is to generate prolog code and can run it as a separate process and just wait for its return. However, this only works if your prolog requirements are fairly large, and mostly independent of your Java code.
DarkNetHunter
Profile Joined October 2012
1224 Posts
November 17 2016 10:41 GMT
#3
I'm enjoying your series of blogs, as a complete non-programmer it's sometimes hard to follow but very much an interesting read!

I am happy you're sticking to BW even though the SC2 API is coming out.

Keep at it, looking forward to seeing the results of your development environment as it pans out!
Learn from the mistakes of others. You can't live long enough to make them all yourself.
Jukado
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
805 Posts
November 19 2016 12:09 GMT
#4
No worries, you can borrow my gamma-neutron demystifier anytime. By the way it also has a demistify setting incase you find yourself caught in a spontaneous indoor cloud formation.
Star Tale Public Domain project. Maps: (2)Gates Of Memphis, (2)Marshmallow Toast, (4)Bubbles, (4)Clay Fields, (6)Numbskull Desert. Also the Vaylu Public Domain Tileset. Also Ramp Palettes, Brood War guides and some fun stuff. Links in my profile
imp42
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
398 Posts
November 23 2016 05:01 GMT
#5
thanks all for your comments and input.
The deeper I dig the slower is the progress. For example, I have spent the last weeks taking several online classes on Neural Networks, in order to understand the concept better. This is obviously a bit of an investment, time-wise. I hope I can still provide content regularly.
50 pts Copper League
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Kung Fu Cup
11:00
#7
IntoTheiNu 1365
WardiTV555
RotterdaM508
TKL 216
SteadfastSC113
Liquipedia
Replay Cast
09:00
KungFu Cup 2026 Week 6
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 508
TKL 216
Rex 145
SteadfastSC 113
herO (SOOP) 40
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 73631
Calm 7950
Bisu 2254
Sea 1984
Horang2 1195
EffOrt 1078
Jaedong 707
firebathero 647
Mini 537
Soma 476
[ Show more ]
Larva 239
Hyuk 191
actioN 186
ZerO 171
Rush 160
Snow 141
hero 141
Last 140
Zeus 133
ggaemo 106
Aegong 85
Pusan 77
Sharp 73
Mind 69
ToSsGirL 64
Sexy 48
sorry 28
soO 20
Rock 19
JulyZerg 14
Bale 14
IntoTheRainbow 13
Terrorterran 13
ajuk12(nOOB) 11
Barracks 0
Dota 2
Gorgc6985
qojqva1476
syndereN194
Counter-Strike
olofmeister2538
shoxiejesuss854
byalli561
edward129
kRYSTAL_49
Other Games
singsing1862
B2W.Neo828
Beastyqt730
hiko666
Lowko314
Happy309
Hui .255
XaKoH 118
monkeys_forever114
Mew2King107
QueenE86
CosmosSc2 52
elazer47
ZerO(Twitch)20
Livibee5
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 461
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 14
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis5369
• Jankos2184
Other Games
• WagamamaTV299
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
9h 54m
The PondCast
19h 54m
OSC
19h 54m
Replay Cast
1d 9h
RSL Revival
1d 19h
OSC
1d 22h
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
BSL
3 days
GSL
3 days
Cure vs herO
SHIN vs Maru
[ Show More ]
BSL
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
GSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-05-12
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W7
YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
2026 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026: Closed Qualifier
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.