• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:50
CEST 19:50
KST 02:50
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy18ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
$5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy0GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding0Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win0[BSL22] RO32 Group Stage4Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple6
StarCraft 2
General
Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2)
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) $5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Season 4 announced for March-April
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone
Brood War
General
ASL21 General Discussion so ive been playing broodwar for a week straight. Pros React To: JaeDong vs Queen [BSL22] RO32 Group Stage Gypsy to Korea
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 🌍 Weekly Foreign Showmatches [ASL21] Ro24 Group F Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Darkest Dungeon
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Loot Boxes—Emotions, And Why…
TrAiDoS
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Electronics
mantequilla
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2110 users

Towards a good SC bot - Month 2 Report

Blogs > imp42
Post a Reply
imp42
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
398 Posts
November 15 2016 16:05 GMT
#1
Towards a good StarCraft bot - Month 2 - Progress Report

Last month I pointed out several issues, such as:
- Poor development and testing environment
- Lack of setup to play two bots against each other
- Unmodifiable maps

I also promised to write how the type-safe API turned out. So, let’s go through these points:

Development and Testing Environment

Requirements towards a development and testing environment:

- Stability
Obviously, it should never crash. It should not require constant modifications.

- Fast test iterations
“Fail fast” (a term adopted from the lean startup methodology) applies here too . Hot swapping code (altering the code while it executes by rewriting the source, compiling on-the-fly and then swap it with the running code) really speeds up the development process.

- Traceability
Probably one of the most important features is a reliable way to link outcomes to causes. The “Credit Assignment” problem of development, so to speak… This mostly translates to good support for modular tests and a good debugger.

- Ease of use
It would be nice if you could achieve what you have in mind with relative ease. Without having to e.g. debug the development tools first, or do a lot of pre-processing steps. etc.

I am in the process of changing several parts in the tool chain. It probably deserves its own post in the near future. Some parts I am experimenting with, in random order:

- Eclipse IDE vs IntelliJ IDEA
- GNU Prolog for Javavs SWI-Prolog
- BwMirror 2.5
- BWAPI 4.0.2
- BWTA2
- Checkstyle / PMD
- Git / GitHub
- Gradle
- Quasar Fibers (lightweight threads for Java)
- Torch 7 / Lua (Neural Net programming)
- Weka 3 (Machine Learning)
- MaryTTS (speech synth)
- Windows 10 vs Ubuntu 16 (Mint)

In conclusion, I feel like the (lack of a good) development environment is one of the issues that holds back bot developers. Therefore, I am looking into providing such an environment out-of-the-box to lower the entry barrier for future developers.

Playing two bots against each other

Solved. Multi-instance Chaoslauncher now works fine. I can run two bots as Java processes together with two instances of Brood War on the same machine.

Unmodifiable maps

Solved. I got a version of Fighting Spirit which I could modify to allow for single-player or multi-player marines-only games.

Type-Safe API

Personally, type-safe development helps me a lot. I often find myself in a position where I could do things “the proper way”, with considerable effort. Or “cheating just a little bit” to get results faster, because “I can always do it the proper way later”. Well, “later” is usually “never” and that’s how technical debt accumulates. For most developers that means nobody else will understand their code. For me it means not even I will understand my own code two months from now. Type-safe environments enforce “the proper way” to some extent. It is definitely more difficult to cheat (circumventing your own software architecture guidelines for the benefit of a quick win), so you might as well do it the right way to start with.

To summarize, by now I am so convinced that I decided to release a type-safe Java API for BWAPI. It will probably be out early 2017.

Last but not least, a big announcement was made a couple of days ago:

Blizzard provides an API for SC2

This has of course already been discussed in the forums. No need to re-iterate all the points made. Let me just state two things:
- The statement that Brood War and StarCraft 2 are two different games is true even more so for AI / bots than for humans.
- Any researcher would agree that it is a good thing to have as many variables under control as possible.
Personally, I will stick with BW for a good while for sure. Not only do I like the strategic aspect of BW more, but I also feel uncomfortable developing against an API I cannot influence in any way (see the “stability” requirement in the development environment part above). Who knows at what point Blizzard will introduce new patches or even decide to shut down the API because the CEO woke up one day and found he valued paying customers higher than a handful of people doing fancy research.

Credits:
Thanks CardinalAllin!


50 pts Copper League
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18255 Posts
November 16 2016 18:33 GMT
#2
I can't help you with the APIs, but in terms of Prolog, my experience is that running SWI Prolog through the JPL is faster and more stable than JIP, although if I understand things right, this GNU project is new and completely separate from JIP. An alternative is to generate prolog code and can run it as a separate process and just wait for its return. However, this only works if your prolog requirements are fairly large, and mostly independent of your Java code.
DarkNetHunter
Profile Joined October 2012
1224 Posts
November 17 2016 10:41 GMT
#3
I'm enjoying your series of blogs, as a complete non-programmer it's sometimes hard to follow but very much an interesting read!

I am happy you're sticking to BW even though the SC2 API is coming out.

Keep at it, looking forward to seeing the results of your development environment as it pans out!
Learn from the mistakes of others. You can't live long enough to make them all yourself.
Jukado
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
805 Posts
November 19 2016 12:09 GMT
#4
No worries, you can borrow my gamma-neutron demystifier anytime. By the way it also has a demistify setting incase you find yourself caught in a spontaneous indoor cloud formation.
Star Tale Public Domain project. Maps: (2)Gates Of Memphis, (2)Marshmallow Toast, (4)Bubbles, (4)Clay Fields, (6)Numbskull Desert. Also the Vaylu Public Domain Tileset. Also Ramp Palettes, Brood War guides and some fun stuff. Links in my profile
imp42
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
398 Posts
November 23 2016 05:01 GMT
#5
thanks all for your comments and input.
The deeper I dig the slower is the progress. For example, I have spent the last weeks taking several online classes on Neural Networks, in order to understand the concept better. This is obviously a bit of an investment, time-wise. I hope I can still provide content regularly.
50 pts Copper League
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 6h 11m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 346
Hui .269
BRAT_OK 66
UpATreeSC 62
trigger 52
MindelVK 17
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3122
Shuttle 541
ggaemo 254
hero 225
Larva 221
Rush 205
Mini 168
Soulkey 147
Dewaltoss 135
Hyun 27
[ Show more ]
Terrorterran 21
sorry 17
soO 14
NaDa 11
Sexy 10
Dota 2
Gorgc7533
420jenkins326
Counter-Strike
pashabiceps1970
fl0m1958
byalli366
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King97
Other Games
Grubby2664
FrodaN1103
Beastyqt858
B2W.Neo451
RotterdaM183
C9.Mang0169
ArmadaUGS98
KnowMe87
Trikslyr42
Sick16
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Shameless 27
• Adnapsc2 7
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 21
• HerbMon 17
• Michael_bg 1
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota270
League of Legends
• Nemesis3423
Other Games
• imaqtpie596
• Shiphtur164
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
6h 11m
The PondCast
16h 11m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 6h
WardiTV Team League
1d 17h
Replay Cast
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
WardiTV Team League
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
BSL
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Team League
3 days
OSC
3 days
BSL
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
GSL
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Elite League 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W2
IPSL Spring 2026
Escore Tournament S2: W3
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
RSL Revival: Season 5
WardiTV TLMC #16
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.