• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 17:29
CET 22:29
KST 06:29
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy5ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289
Community News
Weekly Cups (May 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises0Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool42Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win42026 KungFu Cup Announcement6BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12
StarCraft 2
General
What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2) Weekly Cups (May 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Potential Updates Coming to the SC2 CN Server Weekly Cups (March 2-8): ByuN overcomes PvT block
Tourneys
World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Team League Season 10 KSL Week 87
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone Mutation # 517 Distant Threat Mutation # 516 Specter of Death
Brood War
General
Soulkey's decision to leave C9 BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ JaeDong's form before ASL [ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos ASL21 General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues ASL Season 21 LIVESTREAM with English Commentary [ASL21] Ro24 Group A [BSL22] Open Qualifiers & Ladder Tours
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Cricket [SPORT] Formula 1 Discussion Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
U4GM Tips Counter Enemy Gadgets Fast in Black Ops rsvsr How to Keep Reward Chains Rolling in Monopol u4gm What to Do First in MLB The Show 26 Spring
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1760 users

A Game of Dice

Blogs > Sholip
Post a Reply
Sholip
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
Hungary422 Posts
July 23 2016 16:55 GMT
#1
So this is my first blogpost, ever. I actually never intended to write a blog, but sometimes I just have interesting (to me, at least) ideas and recently I thought, why not just write it in a blogpost. So here it is. Hope at least some of you will find it interesting.

So I’m not sure if that makes me a strange person, but I tend to like to analyze things I find interesting (you may have noticed this already). I like to find solutions, optima to problems that challenge me. The instrument for this is usually math, and when it fails or cannot be applied, coding (this is the real challenge, as I know just enough programming to make very simple codes work). Sometimes I just think, “I could totally write a program for this problem,” and sometimes I do, but more often than not I just start it, and at some point I realize it would be too tedious either mathematically or technically to go further, and I leave it altogether.

A few weeks ago I went on holiday with my friends, and among others we played a game that is most commonly known as Liar’s Dice. We play this game from time to time and I have to say it’s pretty funny, calling each other liars and all that. (Tip: put on some epic music in the background and time your “Liar!” calls with a particularly epic part for maximum fun ) On a side note, I totally won all the games, with a good amount of luck, but also maybe solid play (hehe). After coming home, I started to wonder about strategies to play the game and how they could be optimized. The game itself is simple enough for some very basic probability theory to do the work, I thought.

Rules of the game: there are several variants of Liar’s Dice, the one I usually play plays like this:
The players are sitting around a table, each of them has 5 dice. The dice are rolled, and the starting player calls a face value (2 to 6) and a number he thinks there are of said face value among all the dice on the table. Ones are always wild, counting as the face value called. The next player has 3 options:

Bid higher: make a call by increasing the face value while leaving the count unchanged, or increasing the count and naming a face value of their choice (except 1).
Call lie: doubting the previous statement, saying that there aren’t as many of the called face values as stated. If there are indeed fewer than what the previous player called, he loses a die; if there are at least as many as called, the doubting player loses a die. The player who lost a die proceeds to make a new call. If they don’t have any left, they are eliminated, and the next player calls.
Call truth: stating that there are exactly as many dice as called previously. If there are indeed as many as in the call, the player who made the true call loses a die; if there are fewer or more than in the call, the player calling truth loses a die. The player who lost a die proceeds to make a new call. If they don’t have any left, they are eliminated, and the next player calls. The option to call truth stabilizes the game, as in low-dice situations it could otherwise happen that both a lie and a higher bid is pretty unlikely.

The game goes on until only one player has dice left – that player wins the game.

So that’s where coding comes in. I was thinking about writing a program where you can observe AIs playing each other (and also play against them possibly), and see how they do. The end goal of the project is to create an AI that plays the game reliably well, and to compare how different AIs fare against one another.

The fun part is figuring out how the AIs should work. An AI is able to exactly know the probabilities of different calls in all situations, but what it does then with these values is not trivial at all. That’s what I’ll be trying to figure out.

I would be really happy if you could also contribute with your ideas, hopefully even posting you AI ideas. It does not have to be very complicated or technical, just general ideas, for example “Always call the most likely bid, and never call lie,” or “Call a lie if it’s probability is at least 30%, otherwise bid the most likely one”. If enough AI suggestions come in, I can run a mini-tournament, simulating games between them, and determine which one does the best in the long run.

Cheers,
Sholip

*****
"A hero is no braver than an ordinary man, but he is brave five minutes longer. Also, Zest is best." – Ralph Waldo Emerson
Caissa
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States48 Posts
July 23 2016 23:24 GMT
#2
I absolutely love Liar's Dice! One of my favorite games.

My friend was in a Stanford computer science course that actually made them write a program to compete in a tournament with other students. I think most programs solely using probability really struggled against one team that programmed theirs to bluff in the first round, but at a low enough number that it was still probable.

I don't really have any experience, but here is a link to the assignment paper if you're interested:
+ Show Spoiler +
web.stanford.edu
Don't underestimate the value of Doing Nothing, of just going along, listening to all the things you can't hear, and not bothering.
endy
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Switzerland8970 Posts
July 24 2016 13:34 GMT
#3
This is the most popular drinking game in China. The main difference is that instead of losing a die, you have to drink.
And there is no "call truth".
Because you can do numbers from 1 to 9 with one hand in Chinese, you don't even need to speak/hear you just play with hands. It's likely the reason why it's so popular in clubs where the music volume is deafening.

ॐ
fifa1234
Profile Joined July 2016
3 Posts
July 27 2016 07:47 GMT
#4
--- Nuked ---
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 12h 31m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SteadfastSC 291
StarCraft: Brood War
LancerX 24
Dota 2
monkeys_forever174
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
fl0m5098
pashabiceps2132
Stewie2K398
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu402
Other Games
Grubby3621
FrodaN2785
B2W.Neo224
KnowMe183
C9.Mang0141
Trikslyr49
ZombieGrub44
UpATreeSC25
JuggernautJason14
deth5
shahzam0
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream40
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 70
• davetesta19
• Adnapsc2 9
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Eskiya23 22
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• imaqtpie1221
• Shiphtur352
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
12h 31m
Afreeca Starleague
12h 31m
Soulkey vs Ample
JyJ vs sSak
Replay Cast
1d 11h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 12h
hero vs YSC
Larva vs Shine
Kung Fu Cup
1d 13h
Replay Cast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
WardiTV Team League
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Team League
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Cure vs Zoun
herO vs Rogue
WardiTV Team League
4 days
Platinum Heroes Events
4 days
BSL
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
ByuN vs Maru
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
WardiTV Team League
5 days
BSL
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Light vs Calm
Royal vs Mind
Wardi Open
6 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-22
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
NationLESS Cup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

2026 Changsha Offline CUP
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.