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Active: 2572 users

Another damn balance idea: MSC and oracle

Blogs > DilemaH
Post a Reply
DilemaH
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
Canada402 Posts
November 28 2015 21:30 GMT
#1
TL;DR:
+ Show Spoiler +
Mothership core: Removed
Nexus ability card updated:
Manual shield battery: can restore 4 shields to a friendly unit each second for 1 energy per second
Chrono Boost: changed back to older version (25 energy)
Pylon overcharge: large cast range. For 25 energy, overcharge a pylon. Requires a cybernetics core on the map.
Mass recall: for 100 energy, recall all units in an area to this nexus. Requires a cybernetics core on the map.

Oracle:
Pulsar beam: removed?
Can cast time warp (lotv version)
Time warp requires 150/150 upgrade at the fleet beacon


I'm sure we all know the mothership core and photon overcharge was a pretty blatant bandaid fix to protoss' early game defense. With the new pylon overcharge, playing against protoss and wanting to attack them early on got really frustrating. Playing with an MSC is also very tedious, as you have to constantly babysit this crucial unit which seems to always get itself into trouble and killed. Even top koreans frequently mess up and lose it, despite having played with it for so long. Finally, hero based units, those which you can only have 1 of on the field at a time, have no place in starcraft. My proposition is small, but is the following:

Remove the mothership core and change the ability card of the nexus:
Restore shields: a built-in manual shield battery. For 1 energy per second, restore 4 shields to a target unit
Chrono boost: reverted to it's older version, costing 25 energy
Pylon overcharge: range increased to 9-13~. otherwise, same as MSC variant. Requires a cybernetics core on the map.
Mass recall: Teleport a group of units on the map to this nexus for 75-100 energy. Requires a cybernetics core on the map.

Now you might be wondering: "wait, this doesn't remove the band-aid at all! Protoss still has a bad early game, covered by PO this time on the nexus!" Thats true. But what this change does is make it feel much less like a band-aid and more natural, and it increases strategic depth in the game. Having defensive-utility based abilities on a protoss main structure, at least in my opinion, feels very natural. Plus, players don't have to worry about losing and babysitting their MSC. All of the strategic depth relies on chrono boost costing energy: players will have to decide if they want to chrono boost something to boost their economy, or save up energy for defensive spells. Also, this depth stems further, as players will have to decide which nexi they want to use for chrono boosts. Maybe dumping all energy from 1 nexus is a bad idea since you will be weak to drops, but maybe you really need the energy at your nat and third nexus. Shield battery is just for early game and a niche little ability. In addition, using PO to deny scouting becomes more of an investment as 1 PO = 1 CB. This was very frustrating for players going reapers or losing an early overlord.

One thing I am afraid about with this change is that protoss would not be able to secure additional bases, or doing so would be incredibly hard since photon overcharge would not be available. A small little "fix" could be to have nexi start with 25 energy? But thats not even close to a sufficient buff. If this MSC removal change were to happen, protoss would need to have better, more mobile early defense. I have no idea what that change/those changes would have to be. Maybe making PO have a range of 13 so that you can overcharge some pylons barely on the low ground? But then again, that also feels really band-aidy. Like, protoss' defense is based so much on PO early game that players are fine to throw away a group few adepts for like 3-5 enemy workers. They don't need units: just some band-aid defensive ability and structures. Hence why securing a base would be so hard: no good defensive strcutures to secure it.

Now, onto the oracle. Here is what I believe should be changed:
Remove Pulsar beam?
For 150/150 at the fleet beacon, the oracle can use time warp.

Time warp was moved from the deceased MSC onto the oracle, but must be researched. Pulsar beam kinda ruins the idea of what the oracle is for me: a spiritual successor, earlier tech, and nerazim arbiter. It's a support vessel, not a hit-and-run harass unit. And the thing about the oracle is that its completely meant to catch the enemy off-guard. And if it doesn't, it has decent supporting spells. Low risk, high reward. I believe that if the oracle pulsar beam was removed (or built in to be a very weak basic attack like the arbiter), phoenix play might come back into prominence given the dominance of muta play right now. Ironically, another reason phoenix openings might come back into style is because since its weaker than an oracle opener, it would be scouted for less, giving it more of an element of surprise. I do believe that phoenix play is healthy for the game: instead of oracle harass which is fairly easy to excecute, it takes a good player to constantly be getting the maximum worth out of their phoenixes, and theres a lot of room for creativity with them aswell.

Time warp on the oracle has huge implications. Stargate/Fleet Beacon tech seems to be the end-game goal of all protosses now, with the new powerful carrier and sieging abilities of the tempest. From what I've been seeing in PvP, players want to get to that stalker/disruptor mid-game, and then add on fleet beacon tech lategame for increased sieging powers. Having time warp on the fleet beacon will further increase the potency of this late-game switch. Time warp will shift the positional metagame in not just PvP, but every matchup where the protoss can get to a fleet beacon. It will create "dead-zones" where the enemy will be forced to escape from and give up, allowing more aggressive plays: you can time-warp where the enemy army is, and they would be forced to leave that position before it comes up or get disrupted. It could also be used to deny enemy armies from coming up a ramp, since splitting inside a time warp is much less effective. I think it would be a great addition to the game.

Btw, mark my words, players will begin to split up armies into 2 groups later in the game PvP. The zoning powers of the disruptor are so potent that it could probably zone out an army twice it's size.

*
They don't want you to construct additional pylons
vult
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States9400 Posts
November 29 2015 02:42 GMT
#2
The oracle should have some offensive utility -- Protoss has too many units that dont have offensive abilities, leading them to mass whatever firepower options they have. I definitely think that they should tone down the Pulsar Beam, or redesign it.
I used to play random, but for you I play very specifically.
-NegativeZero-
Profile Joined August 2011
United States2141 Posts
November 30 2015 08:30 GMT
#3
but people never use the oracle for army engagements, removing the pulsar beam is hardly a nerf to anything except for early harass.
vibeo gane,
BeStFAN
Profile Blog Joined April 2015
483 Posts
November 30 2015 08:44 GMT
#4
hey great suggestion thanks for posting
❤ BeSt... ༼ つ ◕_◕༽つ #YEAROFKOMA #YEAROFKOMA #YEAROFKOMA ༼ つ ◕_◕༽つ
DilemaH
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
Canada402 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-30 21:48:22
November 30 2015 21:47 GMT
#5
On November 30 2015 17:30 -NegativeZero- wrote:
but people never use the oracle for army engagements, removing the pulsar beam is hardly a nerf to anything except for early harass.


Exactly the point. As I stated earlier, the oracle is meant to be a support vessel with support-based abilities. The problem is that pulsar beam creates a bad dynamic in gameplay and it doesn't fit the unit: its not even a harass-based ability. Its a build-order coinflip based ability. Either its scouted and it does nothing, or it isn't scouted and it basically wins you the game. And if it is scouted its not too bad either: the enemy has to invest into defenses, kinda balancing out the game. This harass role should be for the phoenix: if its scouted, phoenixes can still do good damage in the right hands, but if its not scouted it doesn't do extremely critical game-ending damage. Phoenixes are a bigger investment, have the potential to do more, but rely much more heavily on player skill than the oracle for harass. Which is very important. Phoenixes grant you map control and the ability to harass/scout your opponent constantly, whereas the oracle is really hit or miss with very very little skill cap. From a gameplay perspective, oracle openers are a badly designed coinflip, whereas phoenix openers are, not only an opener, but a playstyle choice. And freedom of expression is pretty nice to have in SC2.

On November 30 2015 17:44 BeStFAN wrote:
hey great suggestion thanks for posting


You can go ahead and give it a rating. Don't be shy . Whoever voted, voted a 1-star and it hurts my ego
They don't want you to construct additional pylons
imgbaby
Profile Blog Joined May 2015
158 Posts
November 30 2015 21:50 GMT
#6
Man, I love balance discussions. Probably the best way to learn this game.
Like a bird on a wire, like a drunk in some midnight choir I have tried in my way to be free
DilemaH
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
Canada402 Posts
November 30 2015 21:56 GMT
#7
On December 01 2015 06:50 imgbaby wrote:
Man, I love balance discussions. Probably the best way to learn this game.


Can't tell if this was sarcastic or not. If so, why are you reading blog posts on balance suggestions and not the strategy board?
They don't want you to construct additional pylons
imgbaby
Profile Blog Joined May 2015
158 Posts
November 30 2015 22:28 GMT
#8
On December 01 2015 06:56 DilemaH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2015 06:50 imgbaby wrote:
Man, I love balance discussions. Probably the best way to learn this game.


Can't tell if this was sarcastic or not. If so, why are you reading blog posts on balance suggestions and not the strategy board?

Not sarcasm. I read the strategy boards and balance suggestions too. I just feel like balance threads yield the most information for some reason. Sorry to derail your thread!
Like a bird on a wire, like a drunk in some midnight choir I have tried in my way to be free
DilemaH
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
Canada402 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-30 22:37:58
November 30 2015 22:34 GMT
#9
On December 01 2015 07:28 imgbaby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2015 06:56 DilemaH wrote:
On December 01 2015 06:50 imgbaby wrote:
Man, I love balance discussions. Probably the best way to learn this game.


Can't tell if this was sarcastic or not. If so, why are you reading blog posts on balance suggestions and not the strategy board?

Not sarcasm. I read the strategy boards and balance suggestions too. I just feel like balance threads yield the most information for some reason. Sorry to derail your thread!


I see. No worries. I guess its because when we discuss balance changes, we have to discuss 1. the change itself and 2. the implications of said change. We find an...impurity in the current gameplay and try to fix it (or we just add something new to the game to increase depth and quality of games). We also have to look at every matchup where that changed would be noticed and discuss what it would change.

So in this example, I talked about the lameness and staleness of the oracle and MSC, and discuss how it would feel much better if the nexus was loaded with these abilities (and how it would create strategic depth) and how the PvP metagame would change if the oracle had time warp. Its kinda like world history: you look into the past for examples and patterns, you look into the present, and you plan for the future. If that makes sense.
They don't want you to construct additional pylons
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