• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 17:03
CEST 23:03
KST 06:03
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview9[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy12
Community News
LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments2Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw?39Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris48Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!15
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw? Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy Heaven's Balance Suggestions (roast me) Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away Speculation of future Wardii series
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Pros React To: herO's Baffling Game BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BSL Polish World Championship 2025 20-21 September ASL20 General Discussion
Tourneys
Is there English video for group selection for ASL Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Ro24 Group F
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
How Culture and Conflict Imp…
TrAiDoS
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1421 users

Frankfurt Major Day 1 + 2 Stats

Blogs > uberxD
Post a Reply
uberxD
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
412 Posts
November 15 2015 00:10 GMT
#1
Here you have the same table than yesterday, but adding day 2.

[image loading]

I added 5 more heroes, so we can see top 15. It's clear which are the top heroes during this event, that's why I hope when playoffs start we will se some fancy new strats from the teams.

Some quick notes:

- Doom managed to win some matches today, which makes his WR goes up but not even close to be "the most op hero in the patch". Have teams prepared for doom?

- Look at that Undying WR, 1st place during group stage. Is Undying the answer to doom? (bad death-wording joke).

- Another hero having a very bad event is Dazzle... poor guy, it helped me win so much matches in pubs.

- QoP and Undying are leading the ban increase when you compare it to the patch.

Well, hope you enjoy it!
<-- occasionally in English - @uberdota
the bear jew
Profile Joined August 2014
United States3674 Posts
November 15 2015 15:45 GMT
#2
Really surprised by juggernaut's low win rate, especially when it's good for the patch. But I see my old love undying still going strong.
DeMoN pulled off a Miracle and Flies to the Moon
aboxcar
Profile Blog Joined May 2013
United States447 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-15 17:03:32
November 15 2015 16:59 GMT
#3
what would be really interesting is if there were a way to control for the teams actually at the tournament

b/c comparisons like the above are made with stats from all teams across all sorts of matches, and compared with a limited sampling of games from a limited pool of teams. thus, the interpretable information is liable to be limited or even misleading. superficially, one can mostly only comment on the "meta" of the tournament against the overall meta.

one would more deeply like to be able to answer questions such as:

1) of the teams present at this tournament, were they always better at, or worse against DS? or is there some difference at this tournament?

2) of specific teams that were picking and winning with dazzle, has something changed at this tournament?

and so on
everything that rises must converge
uberxD
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
412 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-15 18:01:03
November 15 2015 17:59 GMT
#4
On November 16 2015 01:59 aboxcar wrote:
what would be really interesting is if there were a way to control for the teams actually at the tournament

b/c comparisons like the above are made with stats from all teams across all sorts of matches, and compared with a limited sampling of games from a limited pool of teams. thus, the interpretable information is liable to be limited or even misleading. superficially, one can mostly only comment on the "meta" of the tournament against the overall meta.

one would more deeply like to be able to answer questions such as:

1) of the teams present at this tournament, were they always better at, or worse against DS? or is there some difference at this tournament?

2) of specific teams that were picking and winning with dazzle, has something changed at this tournament?

and so on


In short I'm agree that tournaments meta is extremely hard to analyze as a whole. There's too many variables but too small sample size. It's very interesting to watch, anyways.

The most interesting, and I think conclusive, data you can get is the very low WR Doom has. For his 'condition' a minimum of around 50% for like 6 patches played would be OK for an OP hero.
<-- occasionally in English - @uberdota
aboxcar
Profile Blog Joined May 2013
United States447 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-15 18:47:01
November 15 2015 18:43 GMT
#5
But _why_ is doom's winrate low? My point is that superficial stats alone don't really tell you a lot. We want to know how, why, and what is significant.

For example, if you observed Secret in past tournaments, you would notice that after losing games with Envy on "big carries", instead Puppey put him on doom, or sacrificed him in the offlane with dual-lane ember, etc.

But this tournament, again Puppey tried to put Envy on a big carry like anti-mage, and they won.

Things like this are interesting, but you cannot really glean them from basic stats. It's still nice to see the 'meta' of a tournament, but it leaves us hungrier for more depth
everything that rises must converge
NeThZOR
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
South Africa7387 Posts
November 17 2015 07:38 GMT
#6
What is dead may never die. Even being "killed" by a patch or two.
SuperNova - 2015 | SKT1 fan for years | Dear, FlaSh, PartinG, Soulkey, Naniwa
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5h 57m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SteadfastSC 526
IndyStarCraft 195
ProTech82
JuggernautJason79
ForJumy 0
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 20987
EffOrt 941
Larva 317
hero 246
TY 130
firebathero 109
Bonyth 104
sSak 56
Aegong 29
NaDa 23
Dota 2
The International27255
420jenkins176
monkeys_forever155
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K507
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu348
Other Games
summit1g5574
FrodaN1279
fl0m547
mouzStarbuck290
ToD221
C9.Mang0140
Livibee129
SortOf119
Sick82
Mew2King40
PPMD26
Nathanias0
Organizations
StarCraft 2
ComeBackTV 1266
CranKy Ducklings178
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• EnkiAlexander 79
• musti20045 38
• StrangeGG 29
• davetesta17
• Reevou 4
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 6
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21561
League of Legends
• TFBlade931
Counter-Strike
• imaqtpie1085
• Shiphtur206
Upcoming Events
OSC
5h 57m
MaNa vs SHIN
SKillous vs ShoWTimE
Bunny vs TBD
Cham vs TBD
RSL Revival
12h 57m
Reynor vs Astrea
Classic vs sOs
Maestros of the Game
19h 57m
Serral vs Ryung
ByuN vs Zoun
BSL Team Wars
21h 57m
Team Bonyth vs Team Dewalt
CranKy Ducklings
1d 12h
RSL Revival
1d 12h
GuMiho vs Cham
ByuN vs TriGGeR
Cosmonarchy
1d 16h
TriGGeR vs YoungYakov
YoungYakov vs HonMonO
HonMonO vs TriGGeR
Maestros of the Game
1d 19h
Solar vs Bunny
Clem vs Rogue
[BSL 2025] Weekly
1d 20h
RSL Revival
2 days
Cure vs Bunny
Creator vs Zoun
[ Show More ]
Maestros of the Game
2 days
Maru vs Lambo
herO vs ShoWTimE
BSL Team Wars
2 days
Team Hawk vs Team Sziky
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 18: Qualifier 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

LASL Season 20
2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL Polish World Championship 2025 – Warsaw LAN
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
EC S1
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.