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Sr18
Netherlands1141 Posts
So basically you are asking the community if they will be mad at you if you decide to ask for coin. On that topic I have no input. I don't use (your) hero guides and I don't know how much of the end product is created by you instead of by others. In the end you should probably just add the donation button and see how it plays out. edit: typo | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On July 05 2015 17:21 Sr18 wrote: To be fair Torte, regardless of what the literal text of your blog says, I take away from it an entirely different underlying message. To me the blog comes off as a longwinded way to seek community approval for the eventually inevitable monetization of the project. If that is not what you want the reader to take away from your blog, you should have probably made it very clear that monetization is not an option and will simply never happen. Instead of doing that, you explicitely leave the monetization option open by saying things like: "If I do somehow decide to open up a way to support the project (my friends have been wearing me down into considering the prospect of it), I'll get the permission from selected contributors first along with a few survey questions to ensure fairness and acceptance.". So basically you are asking the community if they will be mad at you if you decide to ask for coin. On that topic I have no input. I don't use (your) hero guides and I don't know how much of the end product is created by you instead of by others. In the end you should probably just add the donation button and see how it plays out. edit: typo Yes, you're not alone as I wrote it out spontaneously because it's been building up for the past two months or so. Community approval or not, it'd be privately between contributors to get their input as I have some community approval in the past for years now. However, I concluded in my rambling that it wouldn't solve my problem, but ultimately create obligation from it and tear myself away from what I really want to do and my own personal security. Thanks for being forward about it. I tried to summarize it better in my edit; but it just adds to the extra weight of a long-winded text. edit: It's a misimplication that I had set myself up for. | ||
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NeThZOR
South Africa7387 Posts
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Jelissei
193 Posts
He may have a valid opinion (or not), but that doesn't excuse such a shitty attitude. I kind of wonder how old he is, since he clearly does not understand that organizing stuff does create value for people. Even if the stuff is not your own. While criticizing is easy - as seen above - I wanna try to help you a little bit. I think the main problem is that game communities have build an entire industry by themselve through mainly unpaid work (or hobby) while still living with their parents. To now shift away from that attitude would surely alienate some people. I suppose, mostly people who don't work themselve. A way that might help could be the creation of an app. That way the guide could still be used in-game for free and you wouldn't have a donation button, that you don't feel comfortable with. With so many subscriptions it might be enough to only reach 1% with the app. But I'm not a numbers person. Just an idea though. edit: As a thought experiment: Would people stop using the guide, if you would stop compiling it? Then it adds value. Then you deserve compensation (if through payment, donations, adds, ...). The difficulty really is to find a way that's not alienating to yourself nor the community. And if you don't want to receive money out of it, but want to reduce the work load, you should maybe just ask for voluntary help. If not only Shaella feels so strongly about the subject, there will be people who want to help the guide as a hobby. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On July 05 2015 20:39 Jelissei wrote: Please don't answer to this Shaella guy anymore. It's pretty obious that he is using you to vent. He may have a valid opinion (or not), but that doesn't excuse such a shitty attitude. I kind of wonder how old he is, since he clearly does not understand that organizing stuff does create value for people. Even if the stuff is not your own. While criticizing is easy - as seen above - I wanna try to help you a little bit. I think the main problem is that game communities have build an entire industry by themselve through mainly unpaid work (or hobby) while still living with their parents. To now shift away from that attitude would surely alienate some people. I suppose, mostly people who don't work themselve. A way that might help could be the creation of an app. That way the guide could still be used in-game for free and you wouldn't have a donation button, that you don't feel comfortable with. With so many subscriptions it might be enough to only reach 1% with the app. But I'm not a numbers person. Just an idea though. edit: As a thought experiment: Would people stop using the guide, if you would stop compiling it? Then it adds value. Then you deserve compensation (if through payment, donations, adds, ...). The difficulty really is to find a way that's not alienating to yourself nor the community. And if you don't want to receive money out of it, but want to reduce the work load, you should maybe just ask for voluntary help. If not only Shaella feels so strongly about the subject, there will be people who want to help the guide as a hobby. I agree, I welcome disagreements; just on a fair attitude/level. Yes, I agree. I think ESEX faced similar fears and issues where they didn't want to come off as money-grubbing, but they did want to make this self-sustaining for a community that loves their work (and it is very unique and well-done). There is actually an app out that is suppose to do what the project does: Bruce.gg. I haven't tried it out myself, but they're a very talented group of people. The subscription number is somewhat misleading, but the only measurement I really have. It's 84 million subscriptions, but a person can subscribe to more than one guide (one per hero, so a maximum of 110). Assuming our highest subscribed guide (1.45 million), 1% is about 14,500. If I stopped updating them, they'd lose a good chunk of subscriptions, but the core majority would stay on. That's what I'm seeing with Purge, eXplosion and Greyshark. However, as patches push forward and remake a lot of heroes; people will notice how outdated they become and soon large bulks move forward (about 2 months after a patch hits). 6.83 was a huge boost and so was 6.84 because the updates were prompt with the new builds and items. In the end, I think I prefer the support and feedback via reminders of X guide is dated or there's Y typo over financial support. As the guides is a passion project and I still want my career. | ||
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Rainling
United States456 Posts
If you want to put it behind a paywall, that's fine, if you want to add a donation button, that's also fine. If you feel like putting a donation button would mislead into thinking you need the money, just add a disclaimer that says that you don't need the money. If restricting access to your work significantly reduced the well-being of others, I might be against it. However, your guides help improve the skill of people playing an entertaining video game, not provide food for starving people. Don't sweat it, do whatever you want. In particular I would say that adding a donation button with a disclaimer that you don't need the money is 100% harmless, as it will mislead no one and enable those with the wherewithal to support you. | ||
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intotheheart
Canada33091 Posts
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QueenKK
Vatican City State16 Posts
That said, you'd be entirely justified. I think that this is an interesting look at how community efforts often turn commercialized and how that can be good and bad. You definitely would have a strong basis to have a tip jar, but that's a slippery slope. | ||
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itsbluething
United States38 Posts
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TBone-
United States2309 Posts
On July 11 2015 02:05 itsbluething wrote: Just my input torte, I don't see putting a donation button as being desperate. I see it as a gauge of interest and a way for people to invest in something they enjoy. If people like your guides, they can express this by donating to you. Of course, your concern of lacking passion and being desperate for money is valid, I suppose. Donation makes it seem like a charity, a tip jar sounds more appropriate. | ||
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Corgi
United States408 Posts
2. People are interested in the money because its important. Its important to have some sort of value that's tangible and the first thing that comes to mind is money. You should explain or find the value to explain to these people after you tell them no. 3. Maybe you should use pateron (even if you think its lame). Or maybe you just keep it as a hobby. People are helping you create guides only because your guides seem to be default appearance on every hero making their input accessible instead of being lost in the builds. 4. Valve could have solved this problem by creating improved official default guides and advanced ones for more variables or just improve the guide system but they have not. They don't either because of icefrog philosophy (anything is possible) or their work system sucks (nobody volunteers for it). 5. Your default guides are fine but I think any player looking for a 1 guide to rule them all per hero, your guide is lacking. It definitely doesn't cover every item for every situation. The item description and skill descriptions definitely don't cover all the best points about why X and whyY and situationally Z. | ||
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CursedRich
United Kingdom737 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
You can have my money when the guide is gone, but not a day before. Note: + Show Spoiler + This is for funnies, because the internet is a bad place for sarcasm. | ||
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KurtistheTurtle
United States1966 Posts
That's pretty rude of you. Just sayin. | ||
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