EPTDon't get me wrong though, from the videos he looks (and sounds) like a boss and a good president. Is there a written record of what he intends to do should he be elected somewhere/what are his precise plans etc?
Bernie Sanders Grassroots Stuff - Page 2
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
Don't get me wrong though, from the videos he looks (and sounds) like a boss and a good president. Is there a written record of what he intends to do should he be elected somewhere/what are his precise plans etc? | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7028 Posts
On June 28 2015 22:05 farvacola wrote: That you think that John Edwards and Howard Dean had their campaigns torpedoed by anyone but themselves indicates that you really didn't pay much attention to those elections..... Everyone has personal flaws and idiosyncrasies that you can turn into reasons for mockery. The media very blatantly picks sides. I know the Edwards reveal would have legitimately ended his political career regardless and it's bizarre he thought he could get away with it, but there were still constant snide comments at his political statements beforehand and "concerns" that by being more overtly liberal he would damage his chances. And the overplay of Howard Dean's "scream" is just very obvious character assassination. | ||
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bookwyrm
United States722 Posts
On June 28 2015 15:12 Plexa wrote: It would be fantastic if Bernie won, but the odds are certainly stacked against him. As one of the more 'extreme' candidates he may struggle to win over the center. I think the only people saying this are liberals who want to have some excuse for themselves. Like 'well I can't support sanders because other people will be put off by the fact that he's a socialist.' Stop attributing your own opinion to these other people - actually it's YOU who feel this way. If everybody who said 'well I would support bernie but other people think he's a communist' would just shut up and support him then he would win hands down. GO BERNIE dont underestimate the fact that sanders supporters and paul supporters have a ton in common. If RP doesnt get the gop nomination many will cross over to vote sanders. if its clinton vs paul I will vote for paul so it swings both ways | ||
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
1. Beat Hillary (and the other Democratic hopefuls) and become the Democratic nominee 2. Beat the Republican candidate and convince the American people that his views aren't too far to the left 3. Work with a Republican Congress and enact policy All three are very unlikely, and Sanders is still a long shot candidate, the Ron Paul of the left. Even if he does win office, Sanders would probably have to dilute his agenda to get anything done, to a point where he probably won't be much different from a potential Hilary presidency. I don't think Bernie Sanders has a reasonable chance at being elected, much less getting his policy done. At best, he can influence Hilary's positions. The American people are not that liberal. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22355 Posts
On June 29 2015 04:19 Bagration wrote: To be effective in implementing his policies, Sanders has to do 3 things: 1. Beat Hillary (and the other Democratic hopefuls) and become the Democratic nominee 2. Beat the Republican candidate and convince the American people that his views aren't too far to the left 3. Work with a Republican Congress and enact policy All three are very unlikely, and Sanders is still a long shot candidate, the Ron Paul of the left. Even if he does win office, Sanders would probably have to dilute his agenda to get anything done, to a point where he probably won't be much different from a potential Hilary presidency. I don't think Bernie Sanders has a reasonable chance at being elected, much less getting his policy done. At best, he can influence Hilary's positions. The American people are not that liberal. Many of his positions are supported by the majority of Americans. Bernie has the votes, they just aren't registered or typical politically engaged people. If everyone that agreed with Bernie supported and voted for him in a primary then general he would win by a significant majority. One important difference between Ron Paul and Sanders is that Sanders positions, while atypical, are actually supported by so many people, far more than ever supported Ron Paul's positions. | ||
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farvacola
United States18813 Posts
I'll vote Sanders in the primary for sure. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On June 29 2015 04:23 GreenHorizons wrote: Many of his positions are supported by the majority of Americans. Bernie has the votes, they just aren't registered or typical politically engaged people. If everyone that agreed with Bernie supported and voted for him in a primary then general he would win by a significant majority. One important difference between Ron Paul and Sanders is that Sanders positions, while atypical, are actually supported by so many people, far more than ever supported Ron Paul's positions. The importance of corporate interests in enacting policies is often used as a way for young people to say "voting is useless because all parties are the same", which is bullshit of the highest level and it's a shame that people believe this crap rhetoric, but it's undeniable that Congress currently is not actually representative of the US electorate. Furthermore, individual elected congressmen are hardly representative of their electors because of the sheer weight of Super PACs and other mechanisms which nearly systematically prevent power brokers from supporting candidates which are too far on the left and would disturb the status quo. Add on top of that the fact that people will be tempted to vote strategically against the candidate who's most likely to get destroyed by the GOP candidate, there is quite a mountain to climb. | ||
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Sermokala
United States13648 Posts
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Souma
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States22355 Posts
On June 29 2015 05:07 Sermokala wrote: I think that he'd make a great president but has that classic Democrat weakness of being impossible to elect nationally. It's a lot like bush two if bush two wasn't a fucking idiot. The idea that he can't get elected nationally is predicated on an apathetic electorate resulting in low turnout. There are more than enough Americans that agree with him to win, it's just a matter of them actually participating and voting. Which is why the core of his campaign is about how it has to be a grassroots movement not one sponsored by a few wealthy elites. The "he doesn't have a shot" crowd is doing the corporate elite's job for them. Going around attempting to convince people our democracy is basically dead and you have to vote for a candidate approved of by corporations and elites or you're just throwing away your vote, is exactly what they want people to do. | ||
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bookwyrm
United States722 Posts
I am calling it now. Sanders wins general election with 60 percent of popular vote. EZPZ | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On June 29 2015 06:02 GreenHorizons wrote: The idea that he can't get elected nationally is predicated on an apathetic electorate resulting in low turnout. There are more than enough Americans that agree with him to win, it's just a matter of them actually participating and voting. Which is why the core of his campaign is about how it has to be a grassroots movement not one sponsored by a few wealthy elites. The "he doesn't have a shot" crowd is doing the corporate elite's job for them. Going around attempting to convince people our democracy is basically dead and you have to vote for a candidate approved of by corporations and elites or you're just throwing away your vote, is exactly what they want people to do. Sorry for being part of the problem  . Historically speaking, it has been a real problem and the way to tackle it if such a thing is even possible is not to say "you can't bring up these legitimate concerns", but it is to mobilize in a way that we're not currently seeing.You keep saying there are more than enough Americans that agree with him to win and I just don't see that. Why am I not seeing that? Perhaps that's a starting point. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22355 Posts
On June 29 2015 07:00 Djzapz wrote: Sorry for being part of the problem . Historically speaking, it has been a real problem and the way to tackle it if such a thing is even possible is not to say "you can't bring up these legitimate concerns", but it is to mobilize in a way that we're not currently seeing.You keep saying there are more than enough Americans that agree with him to win and I just don't see that. Why am I not seeing that? Perhaps that's a starting point. It's alright, that's how these things start. I didn't mean to say "you can't bring up these legitimate concerns", what I'm saying is that doing so by anyone who would see their interests aligned with Sanders is a wet-dream scenario for what Bernie refers to as "The billionaire class". It functions as an anti-grassroots movement without them having to do anything but echo it on their outlets. Do you really have to ask why you haven't heard more about Bernie's support? Anywhere in which average people (not elites) are the primary drivers of content Bernie is on fire, particularly when compared to any other candidate except maybe Hillary. Colorado event. (They were planned as town halls more or less but his crowds have been getting so big they kind of turn into rallies) + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/S9Nt5aZ.jpg) Overflow for CO + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/99w5B4K.jpg) | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On June 29 2015 07:32 GreenHorizons wrote: Do you really have to ask why you haven't heard more about Bernie's support? Anywhere in which average people (not elites) are the primary drivers of content Bernie is on fire, particularly when compared to any other candidate except maybe Hillary. I was asking more along the lines of numbers. You've said there's enough support for his views in the population for him to be electable. If that's the fact, it goes against my preconceptions regarding the US electorate. | ||
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TheFish7
United States2824 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States22355 Posts
On June 29 2015 09:55 TheFish7 wrote: Isn't he running as an Independent? Doesn't that mean he might end up taking a bunch of votes that would've otherwise went to Hillary and handing the election to the GOP? Nope. He's running for the democratic nomination. It's one or the other but not both. On June 29 2015 09:06 Djzapz wrote: I was asking more along the lines of numbers. You've said there's enough support for his views in the population for him to be electable. If that's the fact, it goes against my preconceptions regarding the US electorate. In New Hampshire, where they are getting the most Bernie: Among Democratic primary voters surveyed, 45 percent said that Sanders "cares the most about people like you," while 24 percent said the same about Clinton. When asked which Democratic candidate "best represents the values of Democrats like yourself," 41 percent said Sanders, and 30 percent said Clinton. Source This one kind of breaks down what I'm talking about though they are clearly skeptical too. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2015/06/12/bernie-sanders-says-americans-back-his-agenda-and-hes-mostly-right/ | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
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LuckyFool
United States9015 Posts
I feel like Sanders coming in Obama's wake will ultimately end up hurting him more than it has been so far, but we'll see. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22355 Posts
On June 29 2015 10:51 LuckyFool wrote: Sanders so far reminds me alot of Ron Paul 2008/2012. You can just feel the raw support behind him, the grassroots movement, people who otherwise wouldn't really be entuasistc about politics coming out of the woodwork to support someone they really believe in. Sanders will probably dominate in debates too, can't wait to see him start dropping truth bombs all over Hillary. Should be fun to watch. I'm a reluctant supporter of Sanders, I like some of his ideas, but he goes against the grain with quite a bit, lots of socialist/wealth spreading ideas which would be ridiculously hard to pass/make into law, especially following in the wake of Obama's presidency. The socialist leaning policies are going to be very VERY difficult to really resonate with the more conservative and libertarian voters. I feel like Sanders coming in Obama's wake will ultimately end up hurting him more than it has been so far, but we'll see. I think when people let things like "99% of new income has gone to the top 1%" and "1 Family (The Waltons) have more wealth than 40% of the country" sink in, they realize there is already redistribution happening as we speak, just in the direction that screws them over for real. Combine that with people like Kwark explaining that the specter of "higher taxes" is not likely something that even applies to most people. Bernie is not talking about taking money from the middle class to give to the Poor or the Rich (which has essentially been the generic policies of the left and right for decades). He's talking about not letting the wealthiest among us get almost all of the new wealth being generated. He's talking about making sure the people who make those corporate management jobs possible getting their fair share of what they helped generate. | ||
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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