• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:24
CEST 22:24
KST 05:24
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Evil Geniuses - shutting down10ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier5Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League54Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.166
StarCraft 2
General
How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.16 No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Evil Geniuses - shutting down
Tourneys
ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 548 Shining Bright The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train
Brood War
General
Bot on ladder [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos Do we even care about balance? Sagi.gg Launcher Released Rollback Netcode in Brood War
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [ASL22] Grand Finals [BSL23] RO24 Group Stage KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Armies of Exigo - YesYes? Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion!
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
How Much Genes Contribute to…
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9132 users

John Milton: Keyboard Warrior

Blogs > Glowsphere
Post a Reply
Glowsphere
Profile Blog Joined November 2014
United States170 Posts
May 17 2015 22:23 GMT
#1
I’ve been reading Will Durant’s “Story of Civilization”, and there is a chapter in it on the English poet John Milton. My only knowledge of Milton was that he was the author of “Paradise Lost”. It turns out he had quite a colorful life, and was active in politics. In his public battles over policy and theology, there are some extremely funny passages full of insults and abuse. I thought it would be fun to share. It’s especially comical to me because he is the author of such a long and serious poem, that I’d pictured him as being aloof and dignified. But I guess everyone has their querulous sides. It’s a funny thought to me that if Milton were alive today and posting on TL or other forums, most likely he would end up getting banned. Anyway here are some of the passages from Durant’s book:

“[Milton] rejoices that his first Defensio

    so routed my opponent… that he yielded at once, broken alike in spirit and reputation, and in the whole three years of his subsequent life, though threatening and fuming much, gave us no further trouble save that he called to his aid the obscure labor of some utterly despicable person, and suborned I know now what silly and extravagant adulation to repatch by their eulogies, as far as might be, the unexpected and recent ruin of his character.


Turning upon his new enemy, Milton notes that morus in Greek meant fool; he accuses him of heresy, profligacy, and fornication, of getting Salmasius’ maidservant with child and then abandoning her. Even the printer of the Clamor gets a lashing; everyone knows that he is a “notorious cheat and bankrupt”.


“[Milton] replied to his critics learnedly in Tetrachordon, and in a lighter vein in Colasterion… heaping upon them his rich vocabulary of vituperation - clod, pork, boar, snout, cock-brained solicitor, brazen ass, odious and odorous fool. Milton could leap in one page from the heights of Parnassus to a Tartarus of scurrility.”


“In 1652 there had appeared a book whose very title was a battle cry: The Cry of the Royal Blood to Heaven against the English Parricides. It began with a description of Milton as a monster hideous, ugly, huge, bereft of sight, … a hangman, … a gallows bird.” It compared the execution of Charles I with the crucifixion of Christ, and reckoned the regicide the greater crime… The book closed with the address “To the Bestial Blackguard John Milton, Advocate of Parricides and Parricide,” and a hope that he would soon be mercilessly flogged..”


“After this exemplary passage [about Christian vs pagan poets, quoted in the text] Milton proceeded to talk of the bishop’s socks and feet sending a “fouler stench to heaven”; and if such language should seem uncongenial to theology, he defended it by “the rules of the best rhetoricians,” and the example of Luther; and he reminded his readers that “Christ himself, speaking of unsavory traditions, scruples not to name the dunghill and the jakes.”


“On December 31, 1650, appeared Joannis Miltoni, Angli, pro Populo Anglicano Defensio contra Claudii Salmasii Defensionem Regiam. It began by taunting Salmasius for selling his services to Charles II, and went on to show that Salmasius only four years earlier had written against episopacy, which he now defended.

    O you venal and fee-taking agent! … O sneak and turncoat! … You, silliest of blockheads, are worthy of the fool’s staff itself for thinking to persuade kings and princes to war with such puerile arguments… Do you then, without wit, without genius, a mouther and a pettifogger, born onlt to rifle and transcribe good authors, imagine that you can produce anything of your own that will live- you, whose foolish writings, bundled up with yourself, the next age, believe me, will consign to oblivion?


… Salmasius had idealized Charles I, Milton degrades him. He suspects Charles of having abetted the Duke of Buckingham to poison his father,, James I; he accuses the dead King of “all kinds of viciousness” with the said Duke; he charges Charles with kissing women at the theater, and publicly fondling the breasts of virgins and matrons. Salmasius had called Milton many names; Milton retaliates by describing Salmasius as a fool, beetle, ass, liar, slanderer. apostate, idiot, ignoramus, vagabond, slave. He taunts Salmasius with being dominated by his wife, chides him for his Latin errors, invites him to hang himself, and guarantees him admission to hell.”


There was much in the book showing the loftier sides of Milton, but I cherry picked these quotes because it’s amusing to see a venerated literary figure behaving like an angry forumite or youtube commenter. Just goes to show that those people who come across as childish and ludicrous may have genius hidden in them.


**
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
May 17 2015 23:27 GMT
#2
This period of English history was famously partisan and factious. They had a civil war, the execution of a king, Fucking Cromwell and oscillation between a Protestant and Catholic status quo. After Charles II was restored, there was a detente and everyone just wanted to chill the fuck out, which you could say was the origin of English moderate politics.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
Glowsphere
Profile Blog Joined November 2014
United States170 Posts
May 17 2015 23:42 GMT
#3
I wonder what it was like to live in those times. On the one hand it would be frightening to know you could be killed for your views or loyalties, but on the other, it actually meant something to hold a belief or to be loyal to a faction. There is still the same bile and inflamed rhetoric in modern politics, but it feels devoid of any genuine passion, like they are saying one thing with their mouth but inwardly are cynically grinning at anyone who is in earnest. I get the feeling that for Milton and those of his time, their battles of words were not idle entertainment for the public, but were said with real feeling.
Textual
Profile Joined June 2014
Saudi Arabia57 Posts
May 18 2015 03:54 GMT
#4
Big Milton fan here. Plenty of folks agree that this passage from Paradise Lost is one of the best (if not the best) poetry written in English:

and with ambitious aim
Against the Throne and Monarchy of God
Rais'd impious War in Heav'n and Battel proud
With vain attempt. Him the Almighty Power
Hurld headlong flaming from th' Ethereal Skie
With hideous ruine and combustion down
To bottomless perdition, there to dwell
In Adamantine Chains and penal Fire,
Who durst defie th' Omnipotent to Arms.
Nine times the Space that measures Day and Night
To mortal men, he with his horrid crew
Lay vanquisht, rowling in the fiery Gulfe
Confounded though immortal: But his doom
Reserv'd him to more wrath; for now the thought
Both of lost happiness and lasting pain
Torments him; round he throws his baleful eyes
That witness'd huge affliction and dismay
Mixt with obdurate pride and stedfast hate:
At once as far as Angels kenn he views
The dismal Situation waste and wilde,
A Dungeon horrible, on all sides round
As one great Furnace flam'd, yet from those flames
No light, but rather darkness visible
Serv'd onely to discover sights of woe,
Regions of sorrow, doleful shades, where peace
And rest can never dwell, hope never comes
That comes to all; but torture without end
Still urges, and a fiery Deluge, fed


He also wrote "Areopagitica", which helped to start the free-speech movement in England, and probably was a big influence on people like John Stuart Mill. That's where you get some famous lines like, "he who destroys a good Booke, kills reason itself". The unsettling word there is "good" - Mill would have left that out.

Milton was probably not a Christian by the time he died, at least according to some scholars like Harold Bloom, and he certainly was a heretic with bizarre beliefs. Some of them look good today: he supported the right to divorce for example. He said lots of radical stuff. He suggested that all the churches in England be destroyed. He was a strange fellow and one of English's greatest writers. His only real weakness is his lack of humour.
JieXian
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Malaysia4677 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-18 04:13:48
May 18 2015 04:13 GMT
#5
how's that like a forumite or a youtube commentator?

no mention of fucking, raping, fucking one's mother, shoving things up arses etc etc

:D

interesting nonetheless
Please send me a PM of any song you like that I most probably never heard of! I am looking for people to chat about writing and producing music | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noD-bsOcxuU |
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-18 04:21:22
May 18 2015 04:17 GMT
#6
No offense to Mr. Bloom, but it's common to titter and suggest that anyone from those times with heterodox views (like Hobbes, for example) was some kind of crypto-proto-atheist, but it would be a mistake to assume that.

Also, the Durants....yeah, idk.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
Textual
Profile Joined June 2014
Saudi Arabia57 Posts
May 18 2015 09:43 GMT
#7
On May 18 2015 13:17 Jerubaal wrote:
No offense to Mr. Bloom, but it's common to titter and suggest that anyone from those times with heterodox views (like Hobbes, for example) was some kind of crypto-proto-atheist, but it would be a mistake to assume that.


It's no offense to Bloom at all, because he never suggested that. Not being a Christian isn't the same as not being a theist. Ask a Hindu, or a Jew, or a Muslim, etc...
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 36m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 385
JuggernautJason66
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 17073
firebathero 334
Mini 239
ProTech223
ggaemo 95
910 30
sorry 17
HiyA 14
Dota 2
syndereN362
monkeys_forever157
Counter-Strike
kRYSTAL_28
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu648
Other Games
summit1g3254
FrodaN1054
Beastyqt990
fl0m937
ToD268
C9.Mang0155
UpATreeSC105
Trikslyr57
QueenE48
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 16
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix15
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3099
• WagamamaTV619
League of Legends
• Scarra328
Other Games
• imaqtpie938
Upcoming Events
OSC
2h 36m
WardiTV Summer Champion…
14h 36m
Harstem vs Zoun
Harstem vs GgMaChine
GgMaChine vs Lambo
Harstem vs Lambo
GgMaChine vs Zoun
Lambo vs Zoun
OSC
17h 36m
Big Brain Bouts
19h 36m
FEL
1d 12h
Patches Events
1d 16h
AI Arena Tournament
1d 20h
FEL
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
ByuN vs Lambo
MaxPax vs Bunny
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
6 days
SHIN vs GuMiho
Clem vs Classic
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-10-20
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
IPSL Winter 2026-27
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Acropolis #5 - GSC
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.