• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 07:17
CET 13:17
KST 21:17
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners10Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11
Community News
StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!44$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage4Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly2Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win10
StarCraft 2
General
Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon! RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Where's CardinalAllin/Jukado the mapmaker? [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions [BSL21] RO32 Group Stage
Tourneys
[ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO32 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
The Games Industry And ATVI US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Learning my new SC2 hotkey…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1188 users

John Milton: Keyboard Warrior

Blogs > Glowsphere
Post a Reply
Glowsphere
Profile Blog Joined November 2014
United States170 Posts
May 17 2015 22:23 GMT
#1
I’ve been reading Will Durant’s “Story of Civilization”, and there is a chapter in it on the English poet John Milton. My only knowledge of Milton was that he was the author of “Paradise Lost”. It turns out he had quite a colorful life, and was active in politics. In his public battles over policy and theology, there are some extremely funny passages full of insults and abuse. I thought it would be fun to share. It’s especially comical to me because he is the author of such a long and serious poem, that I’d pictured him as being aloof and dignified. But I guess everyone has their querulous sides. It’s a funny thought to me that if Milton were alive today and posting on TL or other forums, most likely he would end up getting banned. Anyway here are some of the passages from Durant’s book:

“[Milton] rejoices that his first Defensio

    so routed my opponent… that he yielded at once, broken alike in spirit and reputation, and in the whole three years of his subsequent life, though threatening and fuming much, gave us no further trouble save that he called to his aid the obscure labor of some utterly despicable person, and suborned I know now what silly and extravagant adulation to repatch by their eulogies, as far as might be, the unexpected and recent ruin of his character.


Turning upon his new enemy, Milton notes that morus in Greek meant fool; he accuses him of heresy, profligacy, and fornication, of getting Salmasius’ maidservant with child and then abandoning her. Even the printer of the Clamor gets a lashing; everyone knows that he is a “notorious cheat and bankrupt”.


“[Milton] replied to his critics learnedly in Tetrachordon, and in a lighter vein in Colasterion… heaping upon them his rich vocabulary of vituperation - clod, pork, boar, snout, cock-brained solicitor, brazen ass, odious and odorous fool. Milton could leap in one page from the heights of Parnassus to a Tartarus of scurrility.”


“In 1652 there had appeared a book whose very title was a battle cry: The Cry of the Royal Blood to Heaven against the English Parricides. It began with a description of Milton as a monster hideous, ugly, huge, bereft of sight, … a hangman, … a gallows bird.” It compared the execution of Charles I with the crucifixion of Christ, and reckoned the regicide the greater crime… The book closed with the address “To the Bestial Blackguard John Milton, Advocate of Parricides and Parricide,” and a hope that he would soon be mercilessly flogged..”


“After this exemplary passage [about Christian vs pagan poets, quoted in the text] Milton proceeded to talk of the bishop’s socks and feet sending a “fouler stench to heaven”; and if such language should seem uncongenial to theology, he defended it by “the rules of the best rhetoricians,” and the example of Luther; and he reminded his readers that “Christ himself, speaking of unsavory traditions, scruples not to name the dunghill and the jakes.”


“On December 31, 1650, appeared Joannis Miltoni, Angli, pro Populo Anglicano Defensio contra Claudii Salmasii Defensionem Regiam. It began by taunting Salmasius for selling his services to Charles II, and went on to show that Salmasius only four years earlier had written against episopacy, which he now defended.

    O you venal and fee-taking agent! … O sneak and turncoat! … You, silliest of blockheads, are worthy of the fool’s staff itself for thinking to persuade kings and princes to war with such puerile arguments… Do you then, without wit, without genius, a mouther and a pettifogger, born onlt to rifle and transcribe good authors, imagine that you can produce anything of your own that will live- you, whose foolish writings, bundled up with yourself, the next age, believe me, will consign to oblivion?


… Salmasius had idealized Charles I, Milton degrades him. He suspects Charles of having abetted the Duke of Buckingham to poison his father,, James I; he accuses the dead King of “all kinds of viciousness” with the said Duke; he charges Charles with kissing women at the theater, and publicly fondling the breasts of virgins and matrons. Salmasius had called Milton many names; Milton retaliates by describing Salmasius as a fool, beetle, ass, liar, slanderer. apostate, idiot, ignoramus, vagabond, slave. He taunts Salmasius with being dominated by his wife, chides him for his Latin errors, invites him to hang himself, and guarantees him admission to hell.”


There was much in the book showing the loftier sides of Milton, but I cherry picked these quotes because it’s amusing to see a venerated literary figure behaving like an angry forumite or youtube commenter. Just goes to show that those people who come across as childish and ludicrous may have genius hidden in them.


**
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
May 17 2015 23:27 GMT
#2
This period of English history was famously partisan and factious. They had a civil war, the execution of a king, Fucking Cromwell and oscillation between a Protestant and Catholic status quo. After Charles II was restored, there was a detente and everyone just wanted to chill the fuck out, which you could say was the origin of English moderate politics.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
Glowsphere
Profile Blog Joined November 2014
United States170 Posts
May 17 2015 23:42 GMT
#3
I wonder what it was like to live in those times. On the one hand it would be frightening to know you could be killed for your views or loyalties, but on the other, it actually meant something to hold a belief or to be loyal to a faction. There is still the same bile and inflamed rhetoric in modern politics, but it feels devoid of any genuine passion, like they are saying one thing with their mouth but inwardly are cynically grinning at anyone who is in earnest. I get the feeling that for Milton and those of his time, their battles of words were not idle entertainment for the public, but were said with real feeling.
Textual
Profile Joined June 2014
Saudi Arabia57 Posts
May 18 2015 03:54 GMT
#4
Big Milton fan here. Plenty of folks agree that this passage from Paradise Lost is one of the best (if not the best) poetry written in English:

and with ambitious aim
Against the Throne and Monarchy of God
Rais'd impious War in Heav'n and Battel proud
With vain attempt. Him the Almighty Power
Hurld headlong flaming from th' Ethereal Skie
With hideous ruine and combustion down
To bottomless perdition, there to dwell
In Adamantine Chains and penal Fire,
Who durst defie th' Omnipotent to Arms.
Nine times the Space that measures Day and Night
To mortal men, he with his horrid crew
Lay vanquisht, rowling in the fiery Gulfe
Confounded though immortal: But his doom
Reserv'd him to more wrath; for now the thought
Both of lost happiness and lasting pain
Torments him; round he throws his baleful eyes
That witness'd huge affliction and dismay
Mixt with obdurate pride and stedfast hate:
At once as far as Angels kenn he views
The dismal Situation waste and wilde,
A Dungeon horrible, on all sides round
As one great Furnace flam'd, yet from those flames
No light, but rather darkness visible
Serv'd onely to discover sights of woe,
Regions of sorrow, doleful shades, where peace
And rest can never dwell, hope never comes
That comes to all; but torture without end
Still urges, and a fiery Deluge, fed


He also wrote "Areopagitica", which helped to start the free-speech movement in England, and probably was a big influence on people like John Stuart Mill. That's where you get some famous lines like, "he who destroys a good Booke, kills reason itself". The unsettling word there is "good" - Mill would have left that out.

Milton was probably not a Christian by the time he died, at least according to some scholars like Harold Bloom, and he certainly was a heretic with bizarre beliefs. Some of them look good today: he supported the right to divorce for example. He said lots of radical stuff. He suggested that all the churches in England be destroyed. He was a strange fellow and one of English's greatest writers. His only real weakness is his lack of humour.
JieXian
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Malaysia4677 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-18 04:13:48
May 18 2015 04:13 GMT
#5
how's that like a forumite or a youtube commentator?

no mention of fucking, raping, fucking one's mother, shoving things up arses etc etc

:D

interesting nonetheless
Please send me a PM of any song you like that I most probably never heard of! I am looking for people to chat about writing and producing music | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noD-bsOcxuU |
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-18 04:21:22
May 18 2015 04:17 GMT
#6
No offense to Mr. Bloom, but it's common to titter and suggest that anyone from those times with heterodox views (like Hobbes, for example) was some kind of crypto-proto-atheist, but it would be a mistake to assume that.

Also, the Durants....yeah, idk.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
Textual
Profile Joined June 2014
Saudi Arabia57 Posts
May 18 2015 09:43 GMT
#7
On May 18 2015 13:17 Jerubaal wrote:
No offense to Mr. Bloom, but it's common to titter and suggest that anyone from those times with heterodox views (like Hobbes, for example) was some kind of crypto-proto-atheist, but it would be a mistake to assume that.


It's no offense to Bloom at all, because he never suggested that. Not being a Christian isn't the same as not being a theist. Ask a Hindu, or a Jew, or a Muslim, etc...
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Korean Royale
12:00
Group Stage 1 - Group A
WardiTV346
Rex58
LiquipediaDiscussion
Sparkling Tuna Cup
10:00
Weekly #112
Solar vs KrystianerLIVE!
TBD vs SKillous
CranKy Ducklings179
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 84
Rex 58
MindelVK 30
StarCraft: Brood War
firebathero 7162
Sea 5181
GuemChi 756
actioN 613
Pusan 505
Barracks 313
Hyun 237
Last 193
Soma 191
Larva 158
[ Show more ]
hero 144
PianO 111
Backho 81
ToSsGirL 59
Sharp 51
NaDa 24
HiyA 10
scan(afreeca) 10
Noble 9
Dota 2
Gorgc7350
singsing2105
XcaliburYe154
League of Legends
JimRising 893
Counter-Strike
zeus610
x6flipin477
edward62
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor210
Other Games
B2W.Neo822
Pyrionflax340
Happy317
XaKoH 109
goatrope36
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 16
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 5
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2961
• WagamamaTV465
• lizZardDota265
League of Legends
• Jankos3330
• Lourlo904
Upcoming Events
LAN Event
2h 43m
ByuN vs Zoun
TBD vs TriGGeR
Clem vs TBD
IPSL
5h 43m
JDConan vs WIZARD
WolFix vs Cross
BSL 21
7h 43m
spx vs rasowy
HBO vs KameZerg
Cross vs Razz
dxtr13 vs ZZZero
OSC
10h 43m
OSC
20h 43m
Wardi Open
23h 43m
Replay Cast
1d 10h
WardiTV Korean Royale
1d 23h
Replay Cast
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
Classic vs Solar
herO vs Cure
Reynor vs GuMiho
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
[ Show More ]
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Classic vs Creator
Cure vs TriGGeR
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
herO vs Gerald
ByuN vs SHIN
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
BSL 21
6 days
Tarson vs Julia
Doodle vs OldBoy
eOnzErG vs WolFix
StRyKeR vs Aeternum
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Reynor vs sOs
Maru vs Ryung
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 21 Points
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.