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Definitely a lot of good feedback here. As Plexa said our coverage team is going through some difficult issues currently. Heyoka who has done a great job heading LiquidDota is going through some life stuff currently. On our end we haven't been able to jump in and cover for him as well as we would have liked. We have every intention of stepping up our coverage.
Our coverage isn't meant as a click generator. What it does is it sets a trend of effort, energy, quality, which in turn makes a site a fun place to hang out at. That's how we have always seen it and we will make it a priority that it goes back to that. Although we could definitely use new blood in our staff, and if you want to help out in any way you're more than welcome to respond, first and foremost we have to solve some internal things with our writing staff. There still are talented and motivated writers on our staff and there are things we have to do better to get more out of that.
I've always enjoyed the community here a lot. The atmosphere the past year has been great. although as shown by this thread lately it's not as good. I do think we have a great group of users here. The site for me is fun to hang out at than other Dota sites and it definitely is different in a good way from gosugamers/joindota/reddit.
One of the things we can do a better job at is to create events that involve the community. Whether that is inhouse games, hero challenges, or bracket contests. Someone mentioned that the staff doesn't interact as much here as it does on TL. I don't necessarily know whether that is true. However on LiquidDota you can't even see if someone is a staff member so it also gets lost a lot of the time. We will make staff more recognizable in the nearby future. Staff being a part of the community of course is really important.
As Plexa said there are a lot of valid concerns in this thread. Things we can work on. Things we can do better. Keep the feedback coming.
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I understand the sentiment that a lot of you enjoyed TL.net with both SC2 and Dota content. The reality, however, is that I'd be willing to bet my life that every person posting that viewpoint, has had current or previous interest in SC2 and/or TL.
There's a lot more to it. We also cover BW, Hearthstone and would like to cover Heroes in the future. TL previously was already piling out with stuff and became incredibly hard to use. The right sidebar was an enormous mess and served basically no one except those who enjoyed both SC2 and Dota (and everything in-between). There's just so many issues related to it that are a lot more complicated than just enjoying both SC2 and Dota in one place.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
I just wanted to weigh in and say that TL has always been about volunteers stepping up, often on their own out of interest and desire to help the site (s), to help TL improve. The view on this might be different on LD, but that is how it has happened in almost every aspect of TL since forever ago.
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Lol. You have my respect for that.
Don't necessarily agree but thanks for the post.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
its finished!
respect dattish
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if gd is a Synagogue, does that make 'what is a mangix' the Talmud?
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On November 24 2014 02:50 PassiveAce wrote:
if gd is a Synagogue, does that make 'what is a mangix' the Talmud?
Is Talmud a single sentence?
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On November 24 2014 02:55 Qbek wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2014 02:50 PassiveAce wrote:
if gd is a Synagogue, does that make 'what is a mangix' the Talmud? Is Talmud a single sentence?
Alur can probably boost that.
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On November 24 2014 02:55 Qbek wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2014 02:50 PassiveAce wrote:
if gd is a Synagogue, does that make 'what is a mangix' the Talmud? Is Talmud a single sentence?
Frankly, it could do with some editing.
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Netherlands4921 Posts
thanks to the admins for the responses. I wont echo what has already been said so often in this thread, but I hope we can get LD back on track together!
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Make me a mod so I can usher in a golden age for LD
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I'd be the 'cool and hip' parent and the other mods can be the strict and mean ones + Show Spoiler +except Emu, he's cool and hip too
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On November 24 2014 04:31 solidbebe wrote:
thanks to the admins for the responses. I wont echo what has already been said so often in this thread, but I hope we can get LD back on track together!
The fact that you guys continue to stick with us is really awesome <3 LD truly has the best community
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thanks for not having me perma'd yet :D
also a big thing tl/ld still has going for it is its really good image in the dota scene, even in the pro scene
aui posts here sometimes, ee said he posts a blog here later, fluff posts his blogs here etc.
a thing one could do for example, aui just started his replay analyse thing, why not try to work together with him, help him pick replays etc. i dont even know and then feature his vids here.
this is just a general suggestion of what i think could be done (no idea if a thing like this could actually be done from either side)
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I don't see why it would be bad at all to give the community back what they want and what has worked for such a long time in the past (and continues to work in the LoL forum). Dattish-sama brought up a lot of valid points, yet most of them have already been fairly haphazardly dismissed by the site administration in the past. Usually to the tone of: "Meh, we don't want to have a GD for unsubstantiated reason X."
I can sort of understand why you would want to have the different sites for different games, although it would probably be better to just create an easier to customise, and more accessible content filter on the main TL page.
Seriously, it works so well for so many forums. You can read something like SA just fine, and it doesn't even have a sidebar.
I'll go on a bit of a tangent here, so please excuse me. There's not a single good reason to do things differently from what the majority of posters prefers when it comes to basic forum organisation. Even TL staff managed to listen to the LD user base occasionally. If the General forums wouldn't have been made accessible from LD, it probably would be even more of a ghost town. You want to keep the site useable and fun for people who are already there, not for some obscure group of people who occasionally stop by.
On that note, I have yet to hear a single substantiated argument opposing the GD thread. There's nothing backing up that what the majority of the active community wants is bad. Just obtuse statements from the administration that GD mysteriously turned into a terrible, terrible thing killing LD
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The abilty to have a honest discussion about this (and that includes the possibility of it reopening) where the admins opposed to it expound the alleged problems of a GD thread would already go a long way. Note: I am not saying that the last couple weeks of GD posts weren't subpar and that it doesn't need moderation at all. But the current tavern is just terrible for so many reasons.
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I'm pretty sure the number of people who regularly used the GD thread is no where near the majority of people on the site. Perhaps the most active, but one could argue making a bunch of shit posts is only "active" by the most very basic of definitions. It's pretty easy to get your post count up when you're just using the thread like an IM service.
A GD thread is all well and good if it's actually serving the purpose for which it was intended. Apparently it wasn't possible to use it for its intended purpose though. LD isn't going to sink or swim based upon reopening the GD thread. LD will sink or swim based on putting out content which people show up for, new people. Having some sort of standards if you want to be the "classy" DotA site. Keeping a handful of users happy talking in circles in a thread isn't going to increase the user base.
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Any chance for dota TL attack streams?
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On November 24 2014 06:29 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2014 04:31 solidbebe wrote:
thanks to the admins for the responses. I wont echo what has already been said so often in this thread, but I hope we can get LD back on track together! The fact that you guys continue to stick with us is really awesome <3 LD truly has the best community
Off topic, but it's got to be BW era with OSL/MSL/Proleague coverage, TSL tourny's, liquid attack, the korean translators etc :D
Anyways, I don't really see a reason to not have a stricter GD (not spamming yung lean repeatedly and people pushing the limits of post quality on purpose) You can't really expect new comers to just start making threads even if your criteria for that maybe lower than what others think.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Alright, here's why we can't bring back GD (at least how it was before it was closed).
The big reason is that it's bad for the site's long term growth. The thread was at a point where people would post news stories within GD and a mini-discussion would happen about that within the thread. But the whole point behind having a dedicated dota site is that such a news story should get it's own thread. Iirc, one such instance was a discussion about YouPorn entering esports where Heyoka eventually made a separate thread about it. Okay so a thread was made so no harm done? The problem is that users didn't think they could open a thread about the topic and/or thought that the most appropriate place to put it was dota GD. When a casual user comes to LD for information it's rather unintuitive for them to search GD for the latest information, that should be in a separate thread. So on this first level, GD can't exist for this.
The next level is the kind of toxic shitposting that goes on in that thread. Of course this can be moderated and was moderated to some extent, but the ultimate outcome of this was that it creates a very insular community. You can also see this to some extent with league's GD pre-roffles perms (so is a problem endemic to GD threads in general). Again this doesn't invite new users to join LD which is kinda bad for the site. Additionally, while there was definitely a GD community that was not pleased with the thread closure, prior to the closing of the forum a similarly sized subset of users were complaining about GD and wanted it purged from the site. The reason commonly cited for that was the toxic shitposting.
Of course we appreciated that it was seen as a community hub for LD, so we created the Tavern to compensate and give a specific place for LD users to congregate and form a community. But allowing GD to continue was something we saw as a serious barrier to site growth and losing the thread was a necessary (but unfortunate) growing pain the site is going to go through.
So my question to you is, what does GD offer above the Tavern? And suggestively, why can't the Tavern fill the same/similar space as the old thread did?
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EPT
