• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:22
CEST 16:22
KST 23:22
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments0[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence10Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12
Community News
BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch0Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups4WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments1SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia8Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues29
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy SpeCial on The Tasteless Podcast Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion ASL20 General Discussion ASL TICKET LIVE help! :D Soulkey on ASL S20 NaDa's Body
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group D [ASL20] Ro16 Group C [Megathread] Daily Proleagues BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Borderlands 3 General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine UK Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
i'm really bored guys
Peanutsc
I <=> 9
KrillinFromwales
The Personality of a Spender…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1495 users

Some Thoughts on NA Region-Locking

Blogs > feardragon
Post a Reply
feardragon
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States973 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-09 06:56:36
September 09 2014 06:29 GMT
#1
Some Thoughts on NA Region-Locking

Blizzard very recently announced some changes to the WCS system for 2015. It effectively region locks each WCS system with a few exceptions(Australia, China, etc. can compete in NA). There's been a fairly mixed response on the announced changes from a variety of different people. A TL thread showed many NA and "NA/EU resident" Koreans to be very supportive of the changes. Others, like TotalBiscuit, expressed concerns with the impact it would have on the Korean scene. Though polls such as the one in a thread on TeamLiquid has indicated that a majority are in favor of the change, a large number of people have been asking a very good question.

Why does NA need to be babysat when there are clearly more "talented" Koreans?

Of course this is neglecting EU but it seems to be a consensus that this won't affect EU that much. Rather, NA was a mosh-pit of Koreans beating up "less talented" foreigners.

You're honestly a bit of a fool if you say that the average NA player is on par with the average Korean player right now. The reality of the situation is, this is babying North American players. Call it babying, charity, whatever you would like, but I have a theory of why this change is so damn important to the future of eSports in North America.

An ode to Staircases

Let's start with an analogy. I'm going to give you a goal. There's a wall in front of you that's 40 feet tall. We'll call where you're standing North America, and the top Korea. This is to represent the skill gap.

[image loading]
I'm GM in MS-Paint


That's a pretty hard request right? For you metric-users that's roughly 12.1 meters. There's no real easy way to go about this. Unless you're quite literally Spiderman(or Hyun), this is not a feat for a mere mortal. But let's be more reasonable. Let's give you some steps.

[image loading]
That stick figure is so cute


Ok...looking better. With 4 steps each being 10 feet tall, each step is still nearly double your own height. Most people will still struggle a lot to make it over each step. Only a few will be able to make it up more than one by jumping with all their might. It's now "achievable" by a few, but still, the steps have been a minor assistance to most without someone who has jumping in their blood.

In this metaphor, a step is basically representative of a way you can train at a certain level of play. Similar to how we all(I say as an ignorant american so forgive me if this is false) learn in school as we go up each step(1st grade, 2nd grade, 3rd grade, etc.) to the top.

This is Starcraft not a Staircase JaKaTaK

Right now, I feel this is an accurate representation of the current state of NA Starcraft. We have a group of NA players who have made it up these steps like Scarlett, Major, Huk, etc. as miraculous "jumpers." The majority have made it up one or two steps and are struggling to climb the next 10 foot step in front of them that could more accurately be described as a wall.

Steps allow you to reach a progress point and proceed to the "next step." Here's some examples of what these steps could represent. I'll note they're just things I'm throwing out as an idea of how I see things.

[image loading]
If it's called NA ladder, why don't I get a ladder for this?


Different skill levels are able to test and practice for different things going on at different skill levels. Players can get ladder up until they're playing at an NA Grandmaster level for practice. After they've started hitting the top of that, the next step is trying to play in WCS qualifiers and other NA/South American region locked events to try and beat the other top "local" players there. Then there's a nice jump between players who can do well in the qualifiers and actually competing in WCS challenger league because of the introduction of an entirely different level of play: mid tier Koreans.

While the image shows each step as an equal jump, it of course is not that simple. In my mind the step from the WCS qualifiers to actually competing in Challenger is much larger. It's the reason why we see so few players make it over the wall to Premier league, and those that do are spartan kicked back down to Challenger by Koreans like Jaedong.

You Must be Bored if you read this far

But what we've learned is steps are helpful. Having smaller steps allows more players to reach higher steps. It's not just a matter of saying "the talent isn't there." We need to cultivate a system where the talent develop. If you want to see more foreigners who can compete with Koreans-

No. If you want to see an overall rise in the skill level of all of Starcraft, adding steps is important. You can say you only enjoy watching the best play, but as the saying goes: "competition drives innovation." If more players are able to make it to that top level because it's more accessible, we have a LOT more competition, and a lot more innovation coming out of it as well.

How do we do this? We make more steps.

Let's go back to our metaphor for a second. What would an ideal system look like?

[image loading]
Now my wrists AND my knees will need surgery


I don't see this happening in 2015. I don't see this happening in 2016, 2017, or even 2018. This is what I would almost call a fantasy of mine that I strive to develop. A system of improvement where there's a clear view of how to progress and improve. Improvement is faster and you're not facing walls anymore. You're facing actual steps.

Imagine that. Steps that aren't 10 feet tall. Steps that you can actually..."step over".

But while that is a far off fantasy, the WCS region locking is a step in this direction. It's adding more steps to the system, and reducing the height between steps. Premier league will now be a part of the step ladder for North America again and that frees up space in Challenger league and the qualifiers so more people can utilize these steps. You're not going from "facing that top 16 gm player in a qualifier" to "facing Polt/Jaedong/etc." You're going from facing top ladder players to semi-pro's to top NA pro's. It's a much more comfortable and natural progression.

TotalBiscuit clearly outlined a lot of the problems that this new change would cause. I have an insane amount of respect for TotalBiscuit, but I think there's a very very valuable advantage to the new WCS system proposed for 2015. I agree that the "ousted" Koreans do need more things that they can also compete in. This is why I think stuff like the OlimoLeague is so damn important. So don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is a clear black and white issue. It's not. There's going to be some terrible repercussions for this change.

Closing Thoughts

The reason I wrote this blog was because I wanted to defend the North American, South American, Chinese, Taiwanese, and heck even Europeans in the world that are working hard and constantly getting shit on by a large group of people who say, "they're not good enough so why should we give them charity?" It's the long con. I love Starcraft and I love seeing it develop. You want high level of play? THIS is how we get higher levels of play in the long term. Not by creating this system for one group of people to stay at the top. It's by creating competitors and a system for those competitors to actually REACH the top to compete. To bring new ideas and strategies into the system.

That to me, is one damn good reason for some region locked tournaments. I'm not hoping to change minds with this blog. I'm just hoping to make you think about it.

Thanks for reading. <3

****
Ok Starcraft 2 Commentator
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12262 Posts
September 09 2014 07:07 GMT
#2
The thing is, when you describe it as a bunch of small steps in order to overcome a big one, you're presenting it as if everyone's goal was to get to the top of the step. That's not the case. You can decide to stop at whichever step you like, if you feel like you're rewarded enough by what you achieved. The system before made it so that the people who weren't willing to keep climbing higher would not be rewarded. Perhaps it was too harsh, perhaps 40ft is too much. But you still need a climb.

I've seen Nathanias talk about people who stopped playing and wanted to come back to it now that koreans are gone. Realistically, there's no reason to expect that these people will show anything impressive in the future. They will probably commit themselves in a reasonable fashion, make reasonable results, and be content with the step they're sitting on at this reasonable point. Unless there's a pull to improve, there's no reason for people to keep climbing the steps; the people who will do it regardless, are the people who weren't going to mind the strength of the opposition anyway.
No will to live, no wish to die
partouf
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Netherlands405 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-09 08:32:29
September 09 2014 08:30 GMT
#3
To post above me;
Every person that actively plays to compete and succeed in a WCS competition will try and improve their play based on the competition. You still wouldn't get into premier if you didn't try to improve. Just because you're not competing for the sake of trying to beat KR pros, doesn't mean you're not improving the scene. By ramping up competition by number of active players, you'll still inadvertently improve quality of play of people who are competitive enough to win the big bucks. And if you drive the person below you on the ladder to kick your ass, you'll never stay on a particular step unless you actively try to keep up with the competiton that's trying to get more wins/money/points/fame.

I haven't read FearDragons entire post just yet, but the steps and threshhold pictures are pretty accurate and indicative of not just esports/sc2, but human nature in general.
[update twitchuser set banned=1 where lastmessage like '%nohomo%';] - twitter.com/@partouf
y0su
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Finland7871 Posts
September 09 2014 12:19 GMT
#4
you really believe in that step(s) analogy :D http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/451919-a-look-at-north-american-starcraft#2

The thing is I don't think there's any way for WCS to fill in all the gaps. The old system seemed to help fill in gaps near the top (at least that's how it feels with the EU scene - perhaps the "smaller steps" that were created were still too high up in NA?).
I think the new system could help the NA scene with smaller steps in the middle. However, it may also result in the steps between WCS:NA and Blizzcon being far larger/harder.

My personal opinion is that I'd rather have WCS trying to fill in gaps near the top and more tournaments filling in the bottom/middle gaps. I'm not saying the change will be bad... I'm just not convinced it's good either.
ThomasjServo
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
15244 Posts
September 09 2014 12:47 GMT
#5
Region locking abruptly is a bit much imo, I say this because I think it detracts from the over all drawing power of the tournament. People will still watch, but preventing top talent from playing out right is a bit much. I think a more moderate, allotment of places for players outside of the region is a much better way to go. (like what most assume we'll see for China, Australia, etc). Retain some of those big names, but allow for some exposure. Would be interesting if there were also a way to offer some incentive to play and reside in NA, wherever that may be, scholarships maybe, but that is off the cuff.

I think viewer numbers will suffer just a bit from this, and as TB pointed out other Korean teams/teamless Koreans, will continue to struggle.
feardragon
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States973 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-09 16:32:39
September 09 2014 16:32 GMT
#6
@Nebuchad: I think there's still the "stress" of competition with others to stay in Challenger/Premier league. You still need to strive to improve as partouf mentioned in his post. The part of the metaphor that isn't mentioned is that only a certain number of people can fit on each step so whenever you manage to move up to the next step, someone else is either going up or down. This has already been true with the system so I didn't talk about it much.

@y0su: You caught me! It's something I've had in my head for a while (Surprised anyone saw that). And I agree, in a sense this does create a gap in the WCS system betweeen premier league and the grand finals at blizzcon. I think having Polt, Violet, etc. and the few koreans in Premier league will help a little, but the main help will come from other tournaments. Dreamhacks, Red Bulls, IEMs, etc. where players who are at the right level can play against those Koreans to test their stuff. It's not an ideal situation because they're actually not often enough to get "practice" from, so I agree with you. But I think at the same time it's important to build from the ground up. Start with the base problem and then start to address the next one.

@Thomas: It was pretty abrupt. As I mentioned, it's going to be pretty devastating in terms of it's impact on the Korean scene for many players. Viewership numbers for WCS America are going to be very difficult to predict I think. There's a good chance they may drop a little with a larger number of "lesser known" players making it further, but I think it will stabilize at a good point over time.
Ok Starcraft 2 Commentator
nerpderp
Profile Joined February 2013
United States780 Posts
September 09 2014 17:54 GMT
#7
I like your approach to the problem. it's a nuanced, analytical approach that counters the absolutists who argue that they only want to see the best. I teach a lot, and people often ask why we should dedicate more resources to poor communities -- ie, it's unfair, they're misused, it's charity, people are lazy, etc. But that's what you have to do to raise all ships -- not just give resources to those at the very top. Hopefully region locking will lead to that.
"It's not that I have A.D.D., it's just that oh look a bunny rabbit!"
ejozl
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark3411 Posts
September 10 2014 08:11 GMT
#8
This is going to sound mean, but walls are there to keep people out.
SC2 Archon needs "Terrible, terrible damage" as one of it's quotes.
y0su
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Finland7871 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-10 12:14:48
September 10 2014 12:12 GMT
#9
On September 10 2014 01:32 feardragon wrote:
@y0su: You caught me! It's something I've had in my head for a while (Surprised anyone saw that). And I agree, in a sense this does create a gap in the WCS system betweeen premier league and the grand finals at blizzcon. I think having Polt, Violet, etc. and the few koreans in Premier league will help a little, but the main help will come from other tournaments. Dreamhacks, Red Bulls, IEMs, etc. where players who are at the right level can play against those Koreans to test their stuff. It's not an ideal situation because they're actually not often enough to get "practice" from, so I agree with you. But I think at the same time it's important to build from the ground up. Start with the base problem and then start to address the next one.

True. I've had the mindset that WCS should/would be THE top tier (or steps in the ladder analogy). However, that really doesn't need to be the case. Worst case for the change is that we'll have "an undeserved" player from NA at Blizzcon... Best case, we have a consistent tournament at the upper/mid level where players can compete (and improve). Bigger tournaments will continue to occupy the upper level where the best NA players can still continue to push for better results. + Show Spoiler +
What really got me to change my mindset was $. Not the money being paid out for winning, but the cost to compete. WCS is (as I understand it) significantly cheaper to compete in than a weekend premier tournaments. Therefore premier tournaments should be the highest level of competition (outside of GSL).


edit: I'm almost exclusively thinking about the NA region. EU and KR have very different "steps" and very little should change.
SkipPe
Profile Joined April 2014
United States13 Posts
October 11 2014 05:12 GMT
#10
I am curious how much sponsors sell in each region. I mean, do Koreans buy a ton of mechanical keyboards and high-end mice and such, or do they buy the same number per-capita as North Americans and Europeans do, in which case, Korea gets way too much attention, even if they are the best players. It makes sense that the guys who pay for this want to be able to keep paying for it.

Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
The PondCast
13:00
Episode 63
CranKy Ducklings47
Liquipedia
Map Test Tournament
11:00
$450 3v3 Open Cup
WardiTV792
IndyStarCraft 218
Rex102
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
IndyStarCraft 218
Rex 102
mcanning 68
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 54576
Calm 8595
Horang2 5172
Bisu 2945
EffOrt 730
Hyuk 584
Mini 388
actioN 376
Light 314
ZerO 298
[ Show more ]
Soulkey 175
Soma 117
Pusan 103
hero 100
Snow 93
Rush 93
ggaemo 80
Mind 80
Hyun 69
Sea.KH 48
Free 36
ToSsGirL 33
JYJ32
PianO 31
Aegong 28
sorry 26
Yoon 23
Sexy 18
scan(afreeca) 17
HiyA 16
Terrorterran 13
Icarus 11
SilentControl 8
IntoTheRainbow 8
Dota 2
Gorgc5590
singsing3788
qojqva2537
Dendi1204
Fuzer 204
XcaliburYe169
Counter-Strike
zeus710
hiko511
markeloff199
oskar133
edward30
Other Games
gofns21088
tarik_tv17373
B2W.Neo991
Hui .340
DeMusliM338
Lowko290
XaKoH 129
Mlord112
ArmadaUGS82
QueenE71
RotterdaM65
byalli62
NeuroSwarm35
Trikslyr27
ZerO(Twitch)14
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix7
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis4173
• Jankos1410
Other Games
• WagamamaTV218
• Shiphtur121
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
19h 38m
Zoun vs Classic
Korean StarCraft League
1d 12h
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
1d 17h
RSL Revival
1d 19h
Reynor vs Cure
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Online Event
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
[ Show More ]
LiuLi Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-10
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL World Championship of Poland 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.