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Ok so this is going to be a controversial one, if you heaven't heard there has been a pretty big leak of celebrity nude picture, taken from their PRIVATE phones/cloud storage (rumors it's iCloud doing the rounds) Now what kind of Ilk's me about this whole ideal is that the concept of "victim blaming" has peered out it's ugly head again. It's a word that's often used in any discussion about rape, as the trump card. The thing about these leaks is that its a much less sensitive subject and so personal emotions don't get in the way, and hence this monstrosity of a concept can finally be put to bed.
So what is Victim blaming first? Well in its purest proper form its a very bad thing. Basically the concept that some people blame victims of rape or other acts (such as leaked nude pictures), putting the fault on them for not taking what the blamer would consider "appropriate" precautions against these things happening.
So what's the issue? Well to my mind a distinction is often not made, which is that the victim could be blamed for not taking precaution but at the same time be totally blameless for the act itself. So if one was to leave their door and windows wide open while on holiday, it doesn't mean that person deserves harm upon them, this is defiantly true. But it does make them naive at best and an unintelligent fool at worst. Rape is considered probably one of the worst if not the worst crime a human can commit, so emotions get pretty high when anyone would even suggest any criticism of the victims lack of precaution. This is the point where the critic gets the victim blaming label, seen as someone justifying rape, and then the classic phrase comes out "perpetuating rape culture".
Now I have to say that criticizing an individual who is a victim of rape is criminally insensitive and should probably never been done, there is a worrying side to this. If we take the leaked pictures where the crime committed, while still defiantly a crime i might add, has less severe consequences, we might be able to have a better discussion. Jennifer Lawrence is a fool. There i said it. Did she deserve this to happen to her? No. Was she careless and also possibly engaged in activities that encourage this sort of behavior? Yes. Does this in any way make the criminal who did this any less evil, no. There is no doubt that the hacker who did this is a sick fuck quite frankly. And also a massive asshole. But there is this sentiment that by criticizing the action of celebrities (storing sensitive pictures (or data even) on electronic devices and online storage in 2014 is not sensible and also actively courting attention from their sexual image and making a fuck ton of money in the process) you are letting the criminal "off the hook" and that somehow the sole blame lies only with one party. Well that last bit is partly right, the sole blame of the crime is the criminals fault, they are a dick, plain and simple. But we should be able to criticize the victims in this case, and in the case of rape I wouldn't single anyone out, not because none of the victims have been careful but because they have had something truly awful happen to them and its inhuman to cause them any more emotional pain.
We need to be able to criticize lack of precaution though. We do it in every walk of life. You cannot assume that every human being is not going to do any wrong, and say that the SOLE focus should be on the criminal. While they are massively at fault we should still encourage people to take steps to make it harder, yes in an ideal world we should never have to do this. But we are not living in an ideal world, there are bad opportunist people out there and we should be self aware of this, and not be so naive. We cant catch them all overnight and stop them from being born, instead we should perhaps accept that a slight bit of cynicism should be taken.
TL;DR - Bad people are bad. Still makes you a fool if you don't prepare for them in life. Telling people they didn't take proper precaution doesn't magically put less policeman on the street to find criminals who committed the acts.
Update: Statement from apple, basically not their fault the passwords/security questions sucked:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/SRx8g5j.gif)
We wanted to provide an update to our investigation into the theft of photos of certain celebrities. When we learned of the theft, we were outraged and immediately mobilized Apple's engineers to discover the source. Our customers' privacy and security are of utmost importance to us. After more than 40 hours of investigation, we have discovered that certain celebrity accounts were compromised by a very targeted attack on user names, passwords and security questions, a practice that has become all too common on the Internet. None of the cases we have investigated has resulted from any breach in any of Apple's systems including iCloud® or Find my iPhone. We are continuing to work with law enforcement to help identify the criminals involved. To protect against this type of attack, we advise all users to always use a stong password and enable two-step verification. Both of these are addressed on our website at http://support.apple.com/kb/ht4232.
 
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I think one of the most important things that you wrote was "Was she careless and also possibly engaged in activities that encourage this sort of behavior?". I really feel bad for Kate Upton, Jennifer Lawrence, Victoria Justice, etc. However, I feel that if you're going to take nude photos and then get upset when people end up seeing them... well, just don't do it in the first place then. I know that they assumed that it was on their "private" phones, but I don't think there's any reason to trust that something like your phone or even your computer (assuming that it's connected to the internetz) is a safe place to put pictures of yourself that you wouldn't want others seeing.
Going by your rape example, I guess I'd compare it more to women who get drunk and are sexually assaulted. I feel extremely bad for the women that this happens to, but there were lots of things they could have done differently. If you do dangerous/stupid things and then get hurt in the end, at least part of the blame falls on yourself. Not all of the blame, but at least part of it where you can reflect back and say "Wow, that was really dumb of me." No one deserves to be raped and it's not their fault for being raped, but you have to look out for yourself. Doing stupid things and lowering your defenses is never a smart thing to do. In a perfect world we'd hope that no one would ever get raped, but we know that's not the case. Since we know that there's always the chance, people should always think about their safety first. Fun is important and all, but putting yourself at jeopardy is never advisable.
It doesn't change the fact that no one deserves to be humiliated like this in front of basically the entire world, but I hope that the celebrities who had their pictures leaked at least learned something from this. It sucks that there are people that would do this to others, but it's up to you to protect yourself from this happening. None of them are minors, with the possible exception of McKayla Maroney (unsure as to when the pictures were taken), and they all knew what they could possibly be getting themselves into. There were other cases of this happening. If it was the first case, I'd say that they had no way of knowing and that it really sucks hard for them. But there have been so many past reports of this happening.
Note: I don't think it's all their fault and I don't think that they deserved to have this happen to them, but I am just saying that they should have been more responsible. What's done cannot be changed though, so I guess the only hope is that others learn from their mistakes and don't make irresponsible decisions that cause them this much embarrassment. Overall I'd agree with you, but I think it's important for people to understand that what Jennifer Lawrence did was stupid and that it's not like she did everything right and is not at blame. That's just promoting acting like an idiot, and there are probably thousands, if not millions, of kids who look up to her, so it would be pretty retarded to just make it seem like what happened to her is just bad luck or some asshole on the internet hacking into her account.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
If the pics were stolen from their phone's storage then I agree they can't be blamed
But if it was stolen from the cloud or some online file storage... -_-''
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A bit off-topic but what bothers me most about this whole thing is how blown out of proportion it is compared to the hundreds of thousands if not millions of nudes intercepted on daily-basis.
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On September 02 2014 21:02 MtlGuitarist97 wrote:
I know that they assumed that it was on their "private" phones, but I don't think there's any reason to trust that something like your phone or even your computer (assuming that it's connected to the internetz) is a safe place to put pictures of yourself that you wouldn't want others seeing.
Except for, you know, the definition of 'private'...
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On September 02 2014 21:27 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2014 21:02 MtlGuitarist97 wrote:
I know that they assumed that it was on their "private" phones, but I don't think there's any reason to trust that something like your phone or even your computer (assuming that it's connected to the internetz) is a safe place to put pictures of yourself that you wouldn't want others seeing.
Except for, you know, the definition of 'private'...
Except for, you know, if they sent it to someone and that person then decided to leak the photos...
If they're really only taking the photos for themselves, why even bother taking the pictures?
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On September 02 2014 21:30 MtlGuitarist97 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2014 21:27 Nebuchad wrote:On September 02 2014 21:02 MtlGuitarist97 wrote:
I know that they assumed that it was on their "private" phones, but I don't think there's any reason to trust that something like your phone or even your computer (assuming that it's connected to the internetz) is a safe place to put pictures of yourself that you wouldn't want others seeing.
Except for, you know, the definition of 'private'... Except for, you know, if they sent it to someone and that person then decided to leak the photos...
Which is, you know, not what happened...
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i dont get why they have dozens of different nude pictures in the first place.
I havent lokked into it much since i find Kate Upton be be ugly, but apparently there are whole albums that she uploaded on her cloudstorage.
They probably didnt even know they uploaded them to the internet, seperated from the public by a very thin wall.
Thats the problem with the widespread use of all the modern mobile devices and software without any kind of knowledge about them at all.
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On September 02 2014 21:34 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2014 21:30 MtlGuitarist97 wrote:On September 02 2014 21:27 Nebuchad wrote:On September 02 2014 21:02 MtlGuitarist97 wrote:
I know that they assumed that it was on their "private" phones, but I don't think there's any reason to trust that something like your phone or even your computer (assuming that it's connected to the internetz) is a safe place to put pictures of yourself that you wouldn't want others seeing.
Except for, you know, the definition of 'private'... Except for, you know, if they sent it to someone and that person then decided to leak the photos... Which is, you know, not what happened...
The point is though, what if it did? They didn't just take the photos for themselves, and if they did then they're pretty retarded. Why the hell would you take dozens of nude photos as well as possibly (unconfirmed) videos as well if you're just going to keep them on your phone? If Jennifer Lawrence really wanted to see herself naked, it's not like she needs to look at a pic of it. And if she's sending it to someone, there's just as much risk that the person she's sending it to leaks it as it being hacked. It's a pretty retarded situation and one that I personally wouldn't put myself in.
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On September 02 2014 21:48 MtlGuitarist97 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2014 21:34 Nebuchad wrote:On September 02 2014 21:30 MtlGuitarist97 wrote:On September 02 2014 21:27 Nebuchad wrote:On September 02 2014 21:02 MtlGuitarist97 wrote:
I know that they assumed that it was on their "private" phones, but I don't think there's any reason to trust that something like your phone or even your computer (assuming that it's connected to the internetz) is a safe place to put pictures of yourself that you wouldn't want others seeing.
Except for, you know, the definition of 'private'... Except for, you know, if they sent it to someone and that person then decided to leak the photos... Which is, you know, not what happened... The point is though, what if it did? They didn't just take the photos for themselves, and if they did then they're pretty retarded. Why the hell would you take dozens of nude photos as well as possibly (unconfirmed) videos as well if you're just going to keep them on your phone? If Jennifer Lawrence really wanted to see herself naked, it's not like she needs to look at a pic of it. And if she's sending it to someone, there's just as much risk that the person she's sending it to leaks it as it being hacked. It's a pretty retarded situation and one that I personally wouldn't put myself in.
Well your point is terrible. Obviously these are pictures taken in the context of a relationship, where there was a certain amount of trust. Could the other member of the relationship have broken that trust? Yeah. But he didn't, and so that's completely irrelevant to the situation.
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The only one to be blamed here is Apple for screwing up their security. Otherwise I think if you put something on the internet it's not private anymore, but not everyone has this level of awareness about the internet unfortunately. I have no desire to see these pictures myself but I don't really condemn people who get a kick or whatever out of it, though I think it's really childish.
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its not irrelevant. by giving the photos to "someone you trust" you are still exposing your photos into a place where anyone with the means and knowledge can exploit. its not like smartphones, clouds and hacking is new. if you live in this century and you are oblivious to the fact that you are exposing yourself to potential hacks/leaks then you are a fool
and if you did it knowingly, well it still makes you a fool because you put yourself in that position in the first place.
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The point is relatively simple; risky behaviour can have consequences.
Should you have the right to take naked photos of yourself without fear of them being leaked? Well yes, in a perfect world you should, but we all know that in reality the world doesn't work like that. Taking compromising pictures and storing them on a digital device is a risk, the same as not wearing a seat-belt when driving, or walking through a rough part of town alone at night, or choosing 1234 as your pin number. All of those things are choices which you are free to make, but you have to be willing to accept that bad things can happen, and that they are more likely to happen to people who expose themselves to those risks.
Edit: to clarify, I realise that this line of logic can be reduced to absurdity. "People who take planes are more likely to be in air crashes, people who go outside of their house are more likely to be hit by lightning" etc. Risk exists on a dimension, where there are behaviours that most people would agree are risky (eg: running across the street in busy traffic), and others that most people would agree are just a part of everyday life where you have to accept the risk involved (eg: driving to work).
Leaked pictures is a grey area, which is why you get all this controversy.
On one end of the spectrum, if you take pictures of yourself in private and leave them on your own digital camera stored in your house, and it gets stolen, then the risk taken was tiny.
If you take pictures of yourself and then upload them to a website or cloud service, the risk is a little bigger.
If you let someone else take pictures of you then the risk is bigger, whatever your relationship to that person may be.
On the other end of the spectrum, if you take pictures of yourself, leave them on your computer and then take it in to be serviced (ala Edison Chen), then you're taking a pretty big risk, especially if you're a celebrity or public figure.
I think that last point also matters. It makes a difference who you are. If you're a random college girl taking nude picture of yourself, then it would suck if they were leaked, but the potential consequences are not nearly as severe as if you were a celebrity. The risk is also arguably greater for celebrities, because hackers will spend more time and resources targeting them than targeting everyday people.
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On September 02 2014 23:05 evilfatsh1t wrote:
its not irrelevant. by giving the photos to "someone you trust" you are still exposing your photos into a place where anyone with the means and knowledge can exploit. its not like smartphones, clouds and hacking is new. if you live in this century and you are oblivious to the fact that you are exposing yourself to potential hacks/leaks then you are a fool
and if you did it knowingly, well it still makes you a fool because you put yourself in that position in the first place.
Under that logic, you're a fool for using a car, as it increases the risk of having a car accident and you know it. Sure, if they didn't take any pics there would be nothing to hack. That's not how blame works. You have the two extremes, one of them being, like, walking into a gang neighborhood at night with a KKK shirt, and the second being using a car. What you need to do is to determine which one your situation is closest to. Taking nude pics is closer to the second than the first. Getting drunk while being a woman is also closer to the second than the first.
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this story is hilarious
persons that are paid millions to show their ass / boobs / plastics to the whole world all year long, posing as victims
because of pictures ? of their ass ?
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You can guarantee Celebs will disable icloud backup service. Obviously their privacy was invaded,but I don't think they are necessarily "victims", they are paid to show "some" skin and now it appears some have seen more. It's not like financial or other attacks happened.
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On September 03 2014 00:07 Boonbag wrote:
this story is hilarious
persons that are paid millions to show their ass / boobs / plastics to the whole world all year long, posing as victims
because of pictures ? of their ass ?
The photo were private, it means they were not to be shared.
Also, give more respect, they aren't selling bodies, they are selling beauties.
Quite a few of the photo showed more than ass.
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On September 02 2014 23:55 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2014 23:05 evilfatsh1t wrote:
its not irrelevant. by giving the photos to "someone you trust" you are still exposing your photos into a place where anyone with the means and knowledge can exploit. its not like smartphones, clouds and hacking is new. if you live in this century and you are oblivious to the fact that you are exposing yourself to potential hacks/leaks then you are a fool
and if you did it knowingly, well it still makes you a fool because you put yourself in that position in the first place. Under that logic, you're a fool for using a car, as it increases the risk of having a car accident and you know it. Sure, if they didn't take any pics there would be nothing to hack. That's not how blame works. You have the two extremes, one of them being, like, walking into a gang neighborhood at night with a KKK shirt, and the second being using a car. What you need to do is to determine which one your situation is closest to. Taking nude pics is closer to the second than the first. Getting drunk while being a woman is also closer to the second than the first.
You can't really make a statement like that. Getting into a car without a seat belt driven by a friend who's been drinking and is an idiot behind the wheel is not the same as getting into a car to drive down to the shop in a 20mph zone driving like an old man. Same with the drunk girl thing, how drunk? With friends? What town/part of town she in? (very unfortunately but is the reality) what is she wearing? How does she act when shes drunk? Is she at a frat party and went alone with no female friends and drank insane amounts of vodka knowing half the guys there really fancy her and are asshole types wearing an anne summers slutty nurse outfit that reveals her underwear? Circumstances are everything. (note: just because the girl went to the party wearing that and drank loads ect doesn't mean shes asking for it, just means she is a fool)
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Although the break of privacy is painful, I think in modern society these things will become more and more common until it's not that big of a deal anymore to have nudies on the internet. Who gives a fuck anyways, I saw them and now I've moved on.
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EPT
