Another day another blog I guess, i've got more thoughts roiling up in my head so get ready for another rambling pile of words that are presented poorly.
I don't think the internet really gets the anger around the whole quinnspiracy situation which has exploded to become this massive fight about sjw and feminism and gaming journalism integrity and all that bullshit.
There's a need for every website, everyone to suddenly take a side, and any break in the lines is perceived as supporting the other side. Like the tensions are fucking high right now. And I just read some articles and i don't think people get it. They don't get why I'm angry at least. I see their side and why they're supporting Anita Sarkeesian (questionable but understandable), or god forbid, Zoe Quinn (i'll leave the judgements on that up to you, go do your own damn research if you want and form your own opinion, but I find her to be indefensible)
But both sides are rapidly becoming radicalized by their fringe elements. The Zoe Quinn side has started to talk about how clearly anyone that has participated in this uprising against Zoe is a misogynist pigs, which clearly shows that all gamers are misogynist jerks, i mean, after all, have you ever been on xbox live, or playing dota2, my god, people will say awful things!
And I mean, i'm not gonna lie, I flame the SHIT out of people in dota 2. Yes it is ingrained into the culture. No, its probably NOT the best thing in the world to have ingrained into our culture. And honestly, i'm inclined to have my opinion as strap on a fucking helmet and dig in. Because that's life. People will treat you like shit at times.
And i'm not gonna deny that there is a fucking misogynist contingent of gamers out there, you need to look no further than the red pill and other various MRA to find this contingent. And its definitely out there in gaming. I'm not even gonna deny that games are sexist sometimes, it definitely -exists-
Does it exist to the levels Anita Sarkeesian would like you to believe? No. Hell no. She takes everything to an extreme level of EVERYTHING IS THE SEXISMS, AND THE GAMING FANS LIKE THE SEXISMS. ITS MY MORAL DUTY (AS SOMEONE WHOS NOT EVEN A GAMER) TO DICTATE THIS TO THEM.
Like, its not like gamers are sexist. Keep in mind the large, large, large majority of gamers are pubescent teens to late 20s, full of hormones and surprise surprise, they like t&a.
That doesn't mean they're sexist, guilty of preferring the male gaze sure, but..
Consider the incident of Metroid other M, by all account that game was incredibly sexist, assassinating the strong character of Samus by making her a weak waif that listens to Adam's every command exactly even when its in danger of KILLING HER, the internet outrage from fans was UNREAL.
like, there is a real conversation buried underneath all this insanity, there is a very real corrupt heart in the indie scene and the fact that so many publications didn't even talk about it or OUTRIGHT REFUSED to even acknowledge it actually says a ton, but its being obscured and covered up between stupid arguments of misogyny and misandry or whatever back and forth when there's a real issue in the heart of it
For someone under media fire or pressure it makes sense to attach yourself to some communities because in those communities there is a minority who want to fight , scream and shout, they want an icon to push forward their cause.
in general most people in that community just think you are a lynch who is misrepresenting them and get pissed off at the vocal minority giving them a bad name.
Like yeh you get some crazy pro feminist people who will defend zoe quinn and some misogynistic idiots who want an excuse to attack a woman
But if you asked most people in the gaming community they would call her actions awful and wouldn't defend her. They aren't going to spam twitter and say vile shit because they are just regular people.
WOW I feel like I've been living under a rock. I had no idea this was going on! So much juicy drama to delve into .
Interesting how even Total Biscuit is involved somehow. I always see him getting into fights on TL, its funny to see him involved in yet another altercation in a random article I read. Apparently he was shouted down as a misogynist! Man I love drama.
edit: also isn't it an amazing coincidence that in the midst of this, the game Quinn is developing is called "Depression quest"?!!! It fits in so perfectly with her life right now . This is almost as cool as the time when I discovered an infinity symbol was one of the few stable, periodic configurations for three planets to be orbiting each other (the majority of them just break down into chaotic motion).
On August 28 2014 08:22 radscorpion9 wrote: WOW I feel like I've been living under a rock. I had no idea this was going on! So much juicy drama to delve into .
Interesting how even Total Biscuit is involved somehow. I always see him getting into fights on TL, its funny to see him involved in yet another altercation in a random article I read. Apparently he was shouted down as a misogynist! Man I love drama.
edit: also isn't it an amazing coincidence that in the midst of this, the game Quinn is developing is called "Depression quest"?!!! It fits in so perfectly with her life right now . This is almost as cool as the time when I discovered an infinity symbol was one of the few stable, periodic configurations for three planets to be orbiting each other (the majority of them just break down into chaotic motion).
depression quest is developed and out
FYI its a shitty twine html game, the kind anybody can crap out
As for its subject matter, personally i found it offensive but thats just me so.
also she used robin william's death to promote it, as well as played victim for a 'raid' from wizardchan
and anyone that knows anything knows wizardchan would never raid, let alone raid someone like zoe.
On August 28 2014 10:10 Jerubaal wrote: TB didn't get 'dragged into it' other than to make a few commonsense statements. This, of course, infuriated some people.
there ain't no common sense on the internet when the arguments start man
"And i'm not gonna deny that there is a fucking misogynist contingent of gamers out there, you need to look no further than the red pill and other various MRA to find this contingent."
A group of female MRA's did a show on Zoe last week. A weird group of misogynists they are.
Certainly MRA's in general are more critical of women they your average Joe, but that could also be a statement about how protected women are from criticism in general. Anyway, listen to the show and tell me that MRA's are universally misogynist.
I don't get it. You spend a lot of time in this blog trying to downplay sexism during what is probably the biggest slut shaming movement I've seen in a long time. I don't get the hate on ZQ other than that she's a loud feminist woman and internet people who hate feminism got some dirt on her personal life. The "ethics" line (from what I've seen, you didn't provide any examples) was a kotaku employee including her game in a steam greenlight article with a bunch of games in it after sleeping with her. That's something he probably should have disclosed, sure, but is THAT your big ethical breach?
Legit question btw. I follow some gaming people on twitter and am still pretty confused about why the blowup is happening.
On August 28 2014 10:34 Ashakyre wrote: "And i'm not gonna deny that there is a fucking misogynist contingent of gamers out there, you need to look no further than the red pill and other various MRA to find this contingent."
A group of female MRA's did a show on Zoe last week. A weird group of misogynists they are.
Certainly MRA's in general are more critical of women they your average Joe, but that could also be a statement about how protected women are from criticism in general. Anyway, listen to the show and tell me that MRA's are universally misogynist.
I haven't checked out your link yet, probably will later, but your argument would sound a world more credible if you didn't literally end with a "not all men"
Forewarning, I'm a "SJW" person I guess. Didn't think much of sexism / feminism until seeing firsthand over a few years all the bull shit someone close to me went through trying to play the same games in the same communities.
She's actually actively evil. Lets set the whole boyfriend cheating shit aside. Because honestly? I don't give a shit how many guys zoe quinn fucked.
My problem with Zoe Quinn is she played victim to being 'raided' by wizardchan, which NEVER HAPPENED
My problem is she used her influence to basically destroy an indie game game run by the fine young capitalists, and we've yet to see any stories about that show up on sites.
My problem with Zoe Quinn is that she runs around, doing all this shit, and she gets a free pass from the gaming press, and thinks that OMG I'M A GURL entitles her to be free from all criticism from it.
She uses her links in the industry for personal gain as well, Robin Arnott was doing some judging for some indie games award thing. Games that got awards were Crypt of the Necrodancer, Papers Please, cannon brawl.. And Depression Quest. A twine game that happens to have been made by Zoe Quinn
BEYOND THAT EVEN, DMCA takedown requests,
Those are reasons why i don't like Zoe Quinn
as for anita? She's a fucking liar.
a fucking liar
But when you really start to look into the nitty gritty, you start to see that the connections between the gaming press and the indie devs is really disgustingly entwined, but the play of that side of the fence is trying to shift the narrative away from zoe and the corruption because thats a battle they can't win and onto sexism and abuse.
Because they just can't get enough of shitting on their audience.
On August 28 2014 12:31 Trumpet wrote: I don't get it. You spend a lot of time in this blog trying to downplay sexism during what is probably the biggest slut shaming movement I've seen in a long time. I don't get the hate on ZQ other than that she's a loud feminist woman and internet people who hate feminism got some dirt on her personal life. The "ethics" line (from what I've seen, you didn't provide any examples) was a kotaku employee including her game in a steam greenlight article with a bunch of games in it after sleeping with her. That's something he probably should have disclosed, sure, but is THAT your big ethical breach?
Legit question btw. I follow some gaming people on twitter and am still pretty confused about why the blowup is happening.
On August 28 2014 10:34 Ashakyre wrote: "And i'm not gonna deny that there is a fucking misogynist contingent of gamers out there, you need to look no further than the red pill and other various MRA to find this contingent."
A group of female MRA's did a show on Zoe last week. A weird group of misogynists they are.
Certainly MRA's in general are more critical of women they your average Joe, but that could also be a statement about how protected women are from criticism in general. Anyway, listen to the show and tell me that MRA's are universally misogynist.
I haven't checked out your link yet, probably will later, but your argument would sound a world more credible if you didn't literally end with a "not all men"
Forewarning, I'm a "SJW" person I guess. Didn't think much of sexism / feminism until seeing firsthand over a few years all the bull shit someone close to me went through trying to play the same games in the same communities.
I don't want to come as offensive or implying that you are wrong but I think you lack some really important part of the Zoe Quinn debacle because the slut shaming is really the least of the wrong doings she is accused of here. I assume you know that case pretty well so I won't talk about it but I'll tell you other things she has some part in.
There is a group of people name the fine young capitalists that organized a contest for women with game concepts but no developing skills a chance to have their game made for them with 8% of benefits going to them and the rest to charity. They would get the arts and concepts to their names even if they didn't win the contest. Win-Win-Win situation for any participants. But Seemed like Zoe Quinn was not impressed and tried to shut the whole thing down. There is a decent sum up of the situation here : http://www.reddit.com/r/Cynicalbrit/comments/2ediyh/totalbiscuit_supports_the_fine_young_capitalists/ I'll admit the 4chan part is funny/silly but they gave 10k+$ for a cancer charity so that's good but some reacted to this specifically as disgusting money. The point of the YFC was to make a feminist gesture and they were shit on by feminists.
But I think the worst part of the whole affair is people realizing how easy it is for her to just censure tons and tons of critical content on her. She took down youtube videos with DMCA takedown requests, and that is seen as evil anywhere freedom of speech is celebrated. Her game is viewed as not even a game when reviewed by "players" while it was pretty much acclaimed by the professional critics so some people started digging and found some link between her and lots of journalists in different game related magazines/sites. The recent disinterest for gaming journalism that is now seen like clickbaiters(rightfully in my opinion) did amplify both phenomenon. When posts where made on reddit about Zoe Quinn everything was deleted, mostly because the rules of reddit mention you can't give personal informations but this drama is deeply ingrained in people relations and actions but across multiple parts of this site everything got censured indiscriminately for some time.
The whole drama isn't only about Zoe Quinn but it showed big flaws from gaming journalism with Kotaku as main culprit.
On August 28 2014 08:22 radscorpion9 wrote: WOW I feel like I've been living under a rock. I had no idea this was going on! So much juicy drama to delve into .
Interesting how even Total Biscuit is involved somehow. I always see him getting into fights on TL, its funny to see him involved in yet another altercation in a random article I read. Apparently he was shouted down as a misogynist! Man I love drama.
edit: also isn't it an amazing coincidence that in the midst of this, the game Quinn is developing is called "Depression quest"?!!! It fits in so perfectly with her life right now . This is almost as cool as the time when I discovered an infinity symbol was one of the few stable, periodic configurations for three planets to be orbiting each other (the majority of them just break down into chaotic motion).
whaaaaa... Really?
A figure eight forms stable period motion for three objects? As in, if I push and/or displace any (or all) of the objects a little bit, they just go on as before, but quietly oscilate around the ground orbit? And will still be doing the same thing if I come back a very long time after I pushed them? noo... Surely not. I am in disbelief! MADNESS!! I have never studied the three body system much, but it seemed "obvious" to me that it didn't have any stable orbit like that. I assume you need same mass on all objects though? What if they are slightly different? still stable?
But... I mean, if I push it a bit, wont the orbiting period change slightly, and it'll go out of phase with the other two, and you are screwed? Or does it absorb that? Will the time of orbit change (to first order) with infinitesimal pushes/displacements?
See when you encounter people like that you just turn around and walk away. No reason to lose any nerves over stupid people. There are millions of idiots in this world and you can chose to infuriate yourself over them or you can be happy instead, by spending your time with people you actually respect.
On August 28 2014 10:34 Ashakyre wrote: "And i'm not gonna deny that there is a fucking misogynist contingent of gamers out there, you need to look no further than the red pill and other various MRA to find this contingent."
A group of female MRA's did a show on Zoe last week. A weird group of misogynists they are.
Certainly MRA's in general are more critical of women they your average Joe, but that could also be a statement about how protected women are from criticism in general. Anyway, listen to the show and tell me that MRA's are universally misogynist.
MRAs are universally playing the world's tiniest violin for themselves. MR "movement" is given far too much attention relative to its size.
Everyone knows that girl from highschool. She’s angry, bitter, and emotionally manipulative. She is a bully that lives to tear people down to build herself up. She’s the girl you expect to leave behind at graduation.
But what happens when these women go to college and enter the workforce? Well they become feminists of course!
Awesome jumping off point for the Honeybadger to start off.
On August 28 2014 20:33 Kleinmuuhg wrote: See when you encounter people like that you just turn around and walk away. No reason to lose any nerves over stupid people. There are millions of idiots in this world and you can chose to infuriate yourself over them or you can be happy instead, by spending your time with people you actually respect.
so corruption in the indie games industry is totally fine and should be ingnored? ok...
On August 28 2014 20:33 Kleinmuuhg wrote: See when you encounter people like that you just turn around and walk away. No reason to lose any nerves over stupid people. There are millions of idiots in this world and you can chose to infuriate yourself over them or you can be happy instead, by spending your time with people you actually respect.
so corruption in the indie games industry is totally fine and should be ingnored? ok...
You completely missed the point but thanks for being a good example. Goodbye
On August 28 2014 12:31 Trumpet wrote: I don't get it. You spend a lot of time in this blog trying to downplay sexism during what is probably the biggest slut shaming movement I've seen in a long time. I don't get the hate on ZQ other than that she's a loud feminist woman and internet people who hate feminism got some dirt on her personal life. The "ethics" line (from what I've seen, you didn't provide any examples) was a kotaku employee including her game in a steam greenlight article with a bunch of games in it after sleeping with her. That's something he probably should have disclosed, sure, but is THAT your big ethical breach?
Legit question btw. I follow some gaming people on twitter and am still pretty confused about why the blowup is happening.
On August 28 2014 10:34 Ashakyre wrote: "And i'm not gonna deny that there is a fucking misogynist contingent of gamers out there, you need to look no further than the red pill and other various MRA to find this contingent."
A group of female MRA's did a show on Zoe last week. A weird group of misogynists they are.
Certainly MRA's in general are more critical of women they your average Joe, but that could also be a statement about how protected women are from criticism in general. Anyway, listen to the show and tell me that MRA's are universally misogynist.
I haven't checked out your link yet, probably will later, but your argument would sound a world more credible if you didn't literally end with a "not all men"
Forewarning, I'm a "SJW" person I guess. Didn't think much of sexism / feminism until seeing firsthand over a few years all the bull shit someone close to me went through trying to play the same games in the same communities.
I don't want to come as offensive or implying that you are wrong but I think you lack some really important part of the Zoe Quinn debacle because the slut shaming is really the least of the wrong doings she is accused of here. I assume you know that case pretty well so I won't talk about it but I'll tell you other things she has some part in.
There is a group of people name the fine young capitalists that organized a contest for women with game concepts but no developing skills a chance to have their game made for them with 8% of benefits going to them and the rest to charity. They would get the arts and concepts to their names even if they didn't win the contest. Win-Win-Win situation for any participants. But Seemed like Zoe Quinn was not impressed and tried to shut the whole thing down. There is a decent sum up of the situation here : http://www.reddit.com/r/Cynicalbrit/comments/2ediyh/totalbiscuit_supports_the_fine_young_capitalists/ I'll admit the 4chan part is funny/silly but they gave 10k+$ for a cancer charity so that's good but some reacted to this specifically as disgusting money. The point of the YFC was to make a feminist gesture and they were shit on by feminists.
But I think the worst part of the whole affair is people realizing how easy it is for her to just censure tons and tons of critical content on her. She took down youtube videos with DMCA takedown requests, and that is seen as evil anywhere freedom of speech is celebrated. Her game is viewed as not even a game when reviewed by "players" while it was pretty much acclaimed by the professional critics so some people started digging and found some link between her and lots of journalists in different game related magazines/sites. The recent disinterest for gaming journalism that is now seen like clickbaiters(rightfully in my opinion) did amplify both phenomenon. When posts where made on reddit about Zoe Quinn everything was deleted, mostly because the rules of reddit mention you can't give personal informations but this drama is deeply ingrained in people relations and actions but across multiple parts of this site everything got censured indiscriminately for some time.
The whole drama isn't only about Zoe Quinn but it showed big flaws from gaming journalism with Kotaku as main culprit.
i just want to point out that the two journalists who were outed to have had relations with Zoe Quinn wrote an article each about Depression Quest, one of which was a list of 40 titles that were on greenlight of which DQ was one (and this was well before quinn was ever involved with him) and the other wrote about a game jam that Zoe was involved in that went horribly wrong.
also DQ was a game that had been around for months and months before it even appeared on steam and was only ever mentioned in passing. as for the professional critics well her game is yet to receive as single official review according to metacritic: http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/depression-quest so she got precisely zero favourable reviews or mentions in exchange for sex.
also the guy that led the charge against Zoe on youtube, the Internet Aristocrat is a total buffon and implied that Zoe cheated on Patrick Klepek (who is married) because she was on their morning show a few times.
Yes Zoe is a pretty reprehensible person if all the stuff about the cheating is proven to be right but that is her personal business. The whole ordeal was TMZ level shit that got wrapped up into a gigantic conspiracy that she was the focal point for corruption in the gaming journalism press. You know apart from the fundamental setup of the industry as it is being on extremely shaking footing as the way they make money immediately compromises the journalistic integrity of any content they produce, meaning 90% of the industry should probably not exist because no one is willing to pay for that integrity (ie pay for content so press doesn't rely on advertising and content provided by the industry they are covering). Press are also wined and dined at extremely lavish junkets where they review games etc etc and on to forever.
Yet again, somehow, some girl who made a game in fucking TWINE is the poster child for the systematic problems in the video gaming industry. I mean someone else in this thread said that she exploited Robin Williams death to promote DQ - no, she had planned to release the game, for free, on steam at least a week, if not more before the Robin Williams story broke. As for the stuff with the young capitalists, yup its pretty fucked up and both sides seemed to be really stretching for reasons to be mad at the other.
Finally the basis of all this is the chat logs of some jilted ex-bf lmao a definite excellent foundation for all this conspiracy bullshit
EPT
.
. This is almost as cool as the time when I discovered an infinity symbol was one of the few stable, periodic configurations for three planets to be orbiting each other (the majority of them just break down into chaotic motion).
