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When SC2 first came out, I, like many people, played on the ladder. I was able to regularly ladder for a couple months, and was solidly in the gold league. However, something was missing; I got discouraged easily. I couldn't really explain it, but it felt like I was going no-where.
The fact that I would only win 50% of the time was really bumming me out. It felt like I was losing every single time. And even the games that I won didn't really feel like wins. They felt like I was just barely eeking by. Whenever units would be attacking my base, it would feel like I was losing horribly. When I'd watch pro games, even rather one-sided matches looked extremely close. Uncomfortably close. Disgustingly close. Why was the winning player always losing so damn many units?
Logic told me that it was foolish to expect to win more than 50% of the time assuming a competently-built matchmaking system (and Blizzard's match-maker does seem to be quite competently-built). After all, if you're playing opponents of equal skill (give or take), then obviously your win-rate will be 50%.
And it would be foolish to expect that the winning player doesn't lose many units. After all, you have two armies collide, there are going to be heavy losses on both sides. Again, assuming equally-skilled opponents, they are on average going to macro only slightly better or slightly worse than you, and so the battles should on average be fairly close, those both sides will be losing many units.
Why was this bothering me? Why did wins not feel like wins unless I lost almost no units? Why did a 50% win rate feel like a 20% win rate?. This question bothered me for quite some time. But then it suddenly hit me: I had been spoiled; my win taste buds had been overwhelmed with win-sugar and win-spice to the point where they have been damaged; their sensitivity drastically reduced. Blinded, from over a decade of playing Pokemon.
You heard me right: Pokemon. Pokemon, that game that's made for 10 year-olds but that many adults still play. In pokemon, once you learn the basic mechanics and have played through a few of the games, you will win basically 95%+ of the in-game battles. Actually, it's probably more like 99%+. And not only do you win, but you'll often win without having any of your own pokemon faint. In fact, it starts to feel like a loss if any of your own pokemon faint during a battle.
All those years of being conditioned to expect wins 100% of the time; all those years of being conditioned to expect proper wins to look "pretty". In SC2, a "pretty" win would be one where you lose almost no units. Ha, now how often do you suppose THAT happens in a realistic 1v1 ladder match?
Well, there you have it. Pokemon has spoiled me to the point where winning on ladder doesn't feel like winning anymore. I really do feel stupid saying this. I'll probably end up deleting this blog once I come to my senses. But whatevs. For now, you get a close-up view of one of my more embarrassing secrets: I'm a spoiled little snot who needs to win every time. And to this day, when I do play SC2 I mostly play vs the AI because of it. Any attempts I make to ladder consistently usually fail after <10 games.
So what's the moral of the story? Well, if any of you have young kids that you want to introduce to the world of gaming, perhaps just skip the 3DS altogether. Go straight to SC2. With blizzard's match-making system, they'll find plenty of opponents of their skill level. Yeah that's right. Don't even show them games vs the AI or the campaign. Just put them right on the Unranked matchfinder.
Actually don't even bother with Unranked. It'll only teach your kids to feel self-conscious about their ladder rank, which is stupid. Yeah, just plop them straight onto the ranked ladder. Sure, they'll end up at the bottom of Bronze league, but hey, no shame in that. And by doing this, you'll avoid spoiling your kid with constant wins. Pokemon Syndrome is serious business, people!
 
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Certainly an interesting theory.
Have you not played other games in between Pokemon and Starcraft though? I was 8 years old when Pokemon came out and played a ton of it as a kid and I don't think I have ever had the problem you describe. I played WoW for 6 years and PvPd quite a bit though, so that might have desensitized me already by the time I got into Starcraft. Can't recall I would have felt this way in WoW either though.
I don't think people should not let kids play with 3DS based on this though. I'd say it is a lot better environment to play in and get into playing than most other games such as LoL where most people seem to learn the attitude to blame everyone else for all the losses instead of trying to improve.
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On July 21 2014 00:00 Calthrash wrote:
Certainly an interesting theory.
Have you not played other games in between Pokemon and Starcraft though? I was 8 years old when Pokemon came out and played a ton of it as a kid and I don't think I have ever had the problem you describe. I played WoW for 6 years and PvPd quite a bit though, so that might have desensitized me already by the time I got into Starcraft. Can't recall I would have felt this way in WoW either though.
I don't think people should not let kids play with 3DS based on this though. I'd say it is a lot better environment to play in and get into playing than most other games such as LoL where most people seem to learn the attitude to blame everyone else for all the losses instead of trying to improve.
My parents actually didn't let me play any video games as a kid (I went to this weird school called the Waldorf School that encouraged parents to severely limit or eliminate "screen time"). Luckily, the kid who lived across the street from me felt sorry for me and gave me his old GBA, along with Pokemon Ruby and Fire Red versions (and a couple old gameboy color cartridges). I kept it hidden under this futton that was folded into a couch in my room, and would play it for hours and hours. I managed to avoid getting caught.
My comment about not letting your kids play pokemon was partially tongue-in-cheek. I'm not sure why pokemon had this effect on me, or even if it was pokemon. It could be that I'm just not very competitive. I'm also kind of a quitter, which sucks but it's true, so that probably has something to do with it.
It could also be a combination of the two. Perhaps being spoiled by pokemon in combination with my quitter tendencies is just too much.
Edit: aside from a few small games that people have made with Game Maker, the only game other than Pokemon or Starcraft that I've really played is Minecraft, which I really enjoy and feel that I'm fairly competent at. So maybe SC2 just isn't the game for me, even though I really do enjoy watching it.
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On July 21 2014 00:19 codonbyte wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2014 00:00 Calthrash wrote:
Certainly an interesting theory.
Have you not played other games in between Pokemon and Starcraft though? I was 8 years old when Pokemon came out and played a ton of it as a kid and I don't think I have ever had the problem you describe. I played WoW for 6 years and PvPd quite a bit though, so that might have desensitized me already by the time I got into Starcraft. Can't recall I would have felt this way in WoW either though.
I don't think people should not let kids play with 3DS based on this though. I'd say it is a lot better environment to play in and get into playing than most other games such as LoL where most people seem to learn the attitude to blame everyone else for all the losses instead of trying to improve. My parents actually didn't let me play any video games as a kid (I went to this weird school called the Waldorf School that encouraged parents to severely limit or eliminate "screen time"). Luckily, the kid who lived across the street from me felt sorry for me and gave me his old GBA, along with Pokemon Ruby and Fire Red versions (and a couple old gameboy color cartridges). I kept it hidden under this futton that was folded into a couch in my room, and would play it for hours and hours. I managed to avoid getting caught. My comment about not letting your kids play pokemon was partially tongue-in-cheek. I'm not sure why pokemon had this effect on me, or even if it was pokemon. It could be that I'm just not very competitive. I'm also kind of a quitter, which sucks but it's true, so that probably has something to do with it. It could also be a combination of the two. Perhaps being spoiled by pokemon in combination with my quitter tendencies is just too much. Edit: aside from a few small games that people have made with Game Maker, the only game other than Pokemon or Starcraft that I've really played is Minecraft, which I really enjoy and feel that I'm fairly competent at. So maybe SC2 just isn't the game for me, even though I really do enjoy watching it.
I guess this does make your theory seem more probable. You really have a pretty unique experience though, hard to imagine many other people jumping straight from Pokemon to SC2!
I feel like your "quitter" attitude is something that can probably be changed over time, so maybe you should just try to play more with a different mindset if you feel like wanting to try to improve on that. I'm not too competitive myself (or at least wasn't when I first got into Starcraft) but I just enjoy working on improving myself on something so I'm driven to try and play better.
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On July 21 2014 00:32 Calthrash wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2014 00:19 codonbyte wrote:On July 21 2014 00:00 Calthrash wrote:
Certainly an interesting theory.
Have you not played other games in between Pokemon and Starcraft though? I was 8 years old when Pokemon came out and played a ton of it as a kid and I don't think I have ever had the problem you describe. I played WoW for 6 years and PvPd quite a bit though, so that might have desensitized me already by the time I got into Starcraft. Can't recall I would have felt this way in WoW either though.
I don't think people should not let kids play with 3DS based on this though. I'd say it is a lot better environment to play in and get into playing than most other games such as LoL where most people seem to learn the attitude to blame everyone else for all the losses instead of trying to improve. My parents actually didn't let me play any video games as a kid (I went to this weird school called the Waldorf School that encouraged parents to severely limit or eliminate "screen time"). Luckily, the kid who lived across the street from me felt sorry for me and gave me his old GBA, along with Pokemon Ruby and Fire Red versions (and a couple old gameboy color cartridges). I kept it hidden under this futton that was folded into a couch in my room, and would play it for hours and hours. I managed to avoid getting caught. My comment about not letting your kids play pokemon was partially tongue-in-cheek. I'm not sure why pokemon had this effect on me, or even if it was pokemon. It could be that I'm just not very competitive. I'm also kind of a quitter, which sucks but it's true, so that probably has something to do with it. It could also be a combination of the two. Perhaps being spoiled by pokemon in combination with my quitter tendencies is just too much. Edit: aside from a few small games that people have made with Game Maker, the only game other than Pokemon or Starcraft that I've really played is Minecraft, which I really enjoy and feel that I'm fairly competent at. So maybe SC2 just isn't the game for me, even though I really do enjoy watching it. I guess this does make your theory seem more probable. You really have a pretty unique experience though, hard to imagine many other people jumping straight from Pokemon to SC2! I feel like your "quitter" attitude is something that can probably be changed over time, so maybe you should just try to play more with a different mindset if you feel like wanting to try to improve on that. I'm not too competitive myself (or at least wasn't when I first got into Starcraft) but I just enjoy working on improving myself on something so I'm driven to try and play better.
Lol yeah, there is quite the contrast between Pokemon and SC2. Almost complete polar opposites. I actually can't think of any game that is more intense than SC2 (except for BW, where you needed 300 apm just to macro). I mean the amount of multi-tasking required is insane. I still can't imagine how pro players manage to constantly be moving their army around while also macroing and defending fucking mutas and drops and DTs and nydus worms and every vile thing that gets dropped into your base when your army moves out, all while getting the correct saturation at all their bases and putting peons on gas as soon as the geyser finishes and constantly building units.
It's weird, it feels as if I've actually devolved when it comes to being a quitter in the last 4 years or so since I graduated high school. Like, I used to have much more motivation and drive, but now I'm just kinda "blaaaah". I go to work at my part-time job, and then I come home and dick around on the internet getting absolutely nothing worthwhile done. Heh, I'm actually amazed that I managed to post this blog, since composing large blocks of text is something that I often dread doing (but often don't mind once I get started).
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Play pokemon against other human players, and you'll find it challenging to achieve a 55+% winrate. Your MMR will simply increase and you'll play against better players. Same principle as the starcraft ladder. I wasn't terribly good at any pokemon generation besides 3rd, not really being able to get much higher than 1450, but eventually you can achieve peace with your skill level and take glory in your victories and lessons in your losses.
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On July 21 2014 03:34 Pontius Pirate wrote:
Play pokemon against other human players, and you'll find it challenging to achieve a 55+% winrate. Your MMR will simply increase and you'll play against better players. Same principle as the starcraft ladder. I wasn't terribly good at any pokemon generation besides 3rd, not really being able to get much higher than 1450, but eventually you can achieve peace with your skill level and take glory in your victories and lessons in your losses.
Oh I've been doing that a bit lately. I have an account on Pokemonshowdown.com. Although battling pokemon against other human players has suffered similarly (though not to the same extent) from the pokemon effect as laddering on SC2 has, lol.
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Well pokemon you are playing AI.
If you want to win 100% of the time just play the AI of starcraft and you'd never lose.
I don't think pokemon is why you got discouraged. You probably just aren't that competitive as a person. Sc2's ladder system isn't designed for casual play and to me this sounds like the kind of person/player you are.
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On July 21 2014 00:19 codonbyte wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2014 00:00 Calthrash wrote:
Certainly an interesting theory.
Have you not played other games in between Pokemon and Starcraft though? I was 8 years old when Pokemon came out and played a ton of it as a kid and I don't think I have ever had the problem you describe. I played WoW for 6 years and PvPd quite a bit though, so that might have desensitized me already by the time I got into Starcraft. Can't recall I would have felt this way in WoW either though.
I don't think people should not let kids play with 3DS based on this though. I'd say it is a lot better environment to play in and get into playing than most other games such as LoL where most people seem to learn the attitude to blame everyone else for all the losses instead of trying to improve. My parents actually didn't let me play any video games as a kid (I went to this weird school called the Waldorf School that encouraged parents to severely limit or eliminate "screen time"). Luckily, the kid who lived across the street from me felt sorry for me and gave me his old GBA, along with Pokemon Ruby and Fire Red versions (and a couple old gameboy color cartridges). I kept it hidden under this futton that was folded into a couch in my room, and would play it for hours and hours. I managed to avoid getting caught. My comment about not letting your kids play pokemon was partially tongue-in-cheek. I'm not sure why pokemon had this effect on me, or even if it was pokemon. It could be that I'm just not very competitive. I'm also kind of a quitter, which sucks but it's true, so that probably has something to do with it. It could also be a combination of the two. Perhaps being spoiled by pokemon in combination with my quitter tendencies is just too much. Edit: aside from a few small games that people have made with Game Maker, the only game other than Pokemon or Starcraft that I've really played is Minecraft, which I really enjoy and feel that I'm fairly competent at. So maybe SC2 just isn't the game for me, even though I really do enjoy watching it.
Ahahah, this should have been the blog man! Kudos for the kid across the street!
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United States15536 Posts
Don't skip the 3DS! Just play Shovel Knight and 1001 Spikes instead! Get dunked by your handheld and you won't mind when your PC opponents do so later in life.
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On July 21 2014 08:18 blade55555 wrote:
Well pokemon you are playing AI.
If you want to win 100% of the time just play the AI of starcraft and you'd never lose.
I don't think pokemon is why you got discouraged. You probably just aren't that competitive as a person. Sc2's ladder system isn't designed for casual play and to me this sounds like the kind of person/player you are.
That's kinda what I currently do (play vs AI), but I wanna overcome ladder anxiety and play humans more.
I'll probs just play casually on unranked. Or ranked, even. Since I don't mind being a silver/gold scrub and having people know it.
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EPT
