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The fastest possible DT in SC2

Blogs > User15937
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User15937
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
68 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-18 15:21:27
June 18 2014 07:48 GMT
#1
DISCLAIMER: Despite this containing a build order, this is not meant for anyone to use. This will not do anything against anyone not in bronze league. If you want to rush with DTs, there are FAR better ways to do so.

So I was playing around with CarbonTwelve's awesome SCFusion build order tool, and I was wondering how early a DT could exist on the map. Half an hour later, it came up with this:

(0:35) 8 Pylon
(1:03) 8 Gateway
(1:13) (9) CB Nexus
(1:34) 10 Gas
(2:04) (11) Move one probe to gas
(2:08) 11 Cyber Core, move two probes to gas
(2:16) 11 Gas
(2:46) (12) Move 3 probes to gas
(2:58) 12 Twilight
(3:08) 12 Warp Gate (I honestly was kind of surprised that it researched Warpgate), CB Cyber Core
(3:48) 12 Dark Shrine, move 2 probes from each gas back to the mineral line
(3:52) (13) CB Nexus
(4:12) (14) CB Nexus
(4:26) (15) CB Cyber Core
(4:41) 17 Pylon
(5:11) (18) CB Nexus
(5:18) (19) Make your Gateway a Warp Gate
(5:28) 19 DT

And the DT enters the field at 5:33. Despite the existence of Warp Gate, this is not a proxy DT. (At least, I don't think you can make it a proxy DT. You ARE left with 400 excess minerals when your DT finishes, so you MIGHT be able to make the 17 Pylon a proxy, but the DT wouldn't get on the field at 5:33. It would be FAR more threatening, though.) As it stands, if you tried to attack with this DT, it wouldn't get to your opponent's base until ~6:30, so it isn't really faster than any other DT rush. Not to mention, you'd have to plop the DT tech right in your main base, so anyone with a scout and an eye would see it coming from a mile away.

Tomorrow, I am going to see what I can do to turn this from simply the fastest DT possible to the fastest viable DT possible (as in, with Twilight/DT Shrine proxied, proxy pylon, and proxy DT). The Tasteless build in the GBoPB allows the first DT to exist at around 5:50. Whether the SCFusion tool will find a faster one or not is unknown at this time. (Of course, no matter what it finds, it will still be inferior to the Tasteless build, because the Tasteless build has the rather tremendous advantage of providing as many as four DTs, rather than just one.)

This concludes the ramblings of an everyday SC2 noob.

Update: I have posted a follow-up to this, regarding proxying your DT and hiding your tech. Look below to find it.

***
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-18 08:31:24
June 18 2014 08:30 GMT
#2
Should add fastest possible DT Expand to your experiment as well

edit: nvm you did mention you had 400 minerals when the DTs are ready
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
BongChambers
Profile Joined September 2012
Canada591 Posts
June 18 2014 08:38 GMT
#3
Some very interesting and insightful comments you have there User15937

I find I typically never got DT unless I am mixing up my play and going for things like storm/dt drops while having a mobile active army on the map just keeping things at bay and poking away.

Im not sure how viable a DT rush of any kind could be since all Terrans will have orbital by 6 every single game of their life no matter what, but depending on what zerg goes might be able to deny the nat if greedy play is going on and he doesn't just send 12 lings over for jokes.
420
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
June 18 2014 11:39 GMT
#4
This will not do anything against anyone not in bronze league.


You'd be surprised at how well protoss bullshit builds do at every level
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
Chaggi
Profile Joined August 2010
Korea (South)1936 Posts
June 18 2014 11:51 GMT
#5
On June 18 2014 17:38 BongChambers wrote:
Some very interesting and insightful comments you have there User15937

I find I typically never got DT unless I am mixing up my play and going for things like storm/dt drops while having a mobile active army on the map just keeping things at bay and poking away.

Im not sure how viable a DT rush of any kind could be since all Terrans will have orbital by 6 every single game of their life no matter what, but depending on what zerg goes might be able to deny the nat if greedy play is going on and he doesn't just send 12 lings over for jokes.


An orbital doesn't mean infinite scans. Most Terrans around that time will be dropping MULEs, especially the lower leaguers because they have no idea what they're scouting
sabas123
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands3122 Posts
June 18 2014 12:16 GMT
#6
On June 18 2014 20:51 Chaggi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2014 17:38 BongChambers wrote:
Some very interesting and insightful comments you have there User15937

I find I typically never got DT unless I am mixing up my play and going for things like storm/dt drops while having a mobile active army on the map just keeping things at bay and poking away.

Im not sure how viable a DT rush of any kind could be since all Terrans will have orbital by 6 every single game of their life no matter what, but depending on what zerg goes might be able to deny the nat if greedy play is going on and he doesn't just send 12 lings over for jokes.


An orbital doesn't mean infinite scans. Most Terrans around that time will be dropping MULEs, especially the lower leaguers because they have no idea what they're scouting

I lost so many times vs dt's in mid master becouse i muled 1 second to fast haha.
The harder it becomes, the more you should focus on the basics.
opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8852 Posts
June 18 2014 12:27 GMT
#7
Why would you have a problem making the 17 Pylon proxied and warp the DT at the same time? You are not spending ANY minerals since you built the dark shrine a minute ago so you can afford a probe (even more of them) running around and there is even no pressure to put it down at the exact time, because it has way enough time to finish before the DT is warped and you don't need the supply for anything but the DT (yes, you are buidling probes, but it doesn't matter at all, you are so allin that a probe won't save you).

The real question though is how are you gonna mine the 125/125 for the DT when all your probes have died to a single reaper.
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
Chaggi
Profile Joined August 2010
Korea (South)1936 Posts
June 18 2014 12:30 GMT
#8
On June 18 2014 21:16 sabas123 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2014 20:51 Chaggi wrote:
On June 18 2014 17:38 BongChambers wrote:
Some very interesting and insightful comments you have there User15937

I find I typically never got DT unless I am mixing up my play and going for things like storm/dt drops while having a mobile active army on the map just keeping things at bay and poking away.

Im not sure how viable a DT rush of any kind could be since all Terrans will have orbital by 6 every single game of their life no matter what, but depending on what zerg goes might be able to deny the nat if greedy play is going on and he doesn't just send 12 lings over for jokes.


An orbital doesn't mean infinite scans. Most Terrans around that time will be dropping MULEs, especially the lower leaguers because they have no idea what they're scouting

I lost so many times vs dt's in mid master becouse i muled 1 second to fast haha.


There's a hole in my desk because of a DT. It's the only time I've ever raged at any game. I hate them so much.
Ctone23
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States1839 Posts
June 18 2014 13:00 GMT
#9
DT at 5:33?? I'm dead in diamond
TL+ Member
KalWarkov
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany4126 Posts
June 18 2014 15:15 GMT
#10
On June 18 2014 20:39 Teoita wrote:
Show nested quote +
This will not do anything against anyone not in bronze league.


You'd be surprised at how well protoss bullshit builds do at every level


true, but this is way too bullshit^^
any scout identifies this 100%.

the only way i could imagine this working is in pvp vs a non-detection build that doesnt scout, but then again, im not even so sure as you would have to kill a shitton with 1 dt to be ahead, you might die to a proxy robo + counterattack :D

this build doesnt contain a proxy pylon btw which is bad
DiaBoLuS ** Sc2 - Protoss: 16x GM | Dota2 - Offlane Immortal | Wc3 - Undead decent level | Diablo nerd | Chess / Magnus fanboy | BVB | Agnostic***
User15937
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
68 Posts
June 18 2014 15:20 GMT
#11
Here's the follow-up. Opisska was correct-it IS possible for the 5:33 DT to be a proxy DT. The build is slightly different:
(0:35) 8 Pylon
(1:03) 8 Gateway
(1:13) (9) CB Nexus
(1:34) 10 Gas
(2:04) (10) Move two probes to gas
(2:08) 10 Cyber Core, 10 Gas, move one probes to gas
(2:38) (11) Move two probes to gas
(2:58) 11 Twilight
(3:08) 11 Warp Gate, move one probe to gas
(3:48) 11 Dark Shrine, CB Cyber Core, move 2 probes from each gas back to the mineral line
(3:56) (12) CB Nexus
(4:00) (12) Send probe out
(4:16) (13) CB Nexus
(4:19) (14) CB Cyber Core
(4:44) (16) CB Cyber Core
(5:01) 17 Proxy Pylon
(5:11) (18) CB Nexus
(5:18) (18) Make your Gateway a Warp Gate, CB Nexus
(5:28) 18 DT

but it allows your DT to be proxy. Assuming it takes 20 seconds for the DT to go from your proxy to your opponent's base, this means that the absolute fastest a DT can be in your base is at 5:53. Of course, the only way your opponent won't see it coming is if he never scouts you.

If you want to be more sneaky and hide ALL your tech at the proxy, here's the fastest DT from this:
(0:44) 9 Pylon, CB Nexus
(1:16) 10 Gate
(1:28) (11) CB Nexus
(1:30) Send out probe
(1:50) 13 Gas
(2:21) 13 Cyber Core, 13 Gas, move one probe to gas
(2:32) 13 Proxy Pylon, move two probes to gas.
(2:51) (14) Move three probes to gas
(3:11) 14 Proxy Twilight
(3:21) 14 Warpgate, CB Cyber Core
(4:01) 15 Proxy DT Shrine, move all but one of your probes back to minerals, CB Cyber Core (you can bring your Probe back to your base from the proxy now)
(4:07) (16) CB Nexus
(4:27) (17) CB Nexus
(4:55) (20) Move two of your Probes back to gas
(5:11) (20) CB Cyber Core, move a probe to gas
(5:31) (22) Make your Gateway a warpgate
(5:41) 22 DT

And the DT appears at 5:46. This means that hiding your tech delays your DT by 13 seconds. However, this is only 5-10 seconds faster than the Tasteless build, which allows for multiple DTs. So I'd say, still use that build.
boxerfred
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Germany8360 Posts
June 18 2014 22:37 GMT
#12
From my 4v4 experience, I can say the pre-cost reduction you could warp in 3 dts at a proxy pylon roughly at 06:05. 11gate, 13gas, 14gas, cut probes at 15 for core, 16 or 17 pylon.. lots of chrono on warpgate tech.
LuckyFool
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States9015 Posts
June 18 2014 22:42 GMT
#13
I think you could get a DT out even faster in BW lol
Rickyvalle21
Profile Joined July 2012
United States320 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-19 01:22:43
June 19 2014 01:20 GMT
#14
If Hitman Is doing this build in rank 1 grandmasters then it definitely works. I've only played vs this once(proxy version) and lost due to confusion of it being a proxy stargate voidray build.
people say practice is perfect but if nothing is perfect whats the point in practicing?
BruceLee420
Profile Joined November 2021
1 Post
November 17 2021 19:20 GMT
#15
Two days ago I dropped DT's at 3:45.
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