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I am going to kill you or die trying.
Blizzard created a war game. They have put us as the chief commanders of our armies. Our pride, hard work, dedication, self-worth and skill is all on the line when we que up to challenge an opponent. In SC2 it is right to hate your opponent.
"Our need to project victory at all costs, or shelter our ego, in loss, at all costs suggests that we should act or react this way."
"...it does feel good to crush our enemy in a battle and watch the digital bodies litre the map."
Artois once said, if you’re ahead, get more ahead. Day[9] once said, “Just go fucking kill him”.
"If you are the victor, ... brace yourself, it could get messy depending on how much they associate SC2 winning and self-worth."
"...two nerds gaming hard on their own time, in their own rooms, 1v1 on the internet!??! COME ON!!! BM AWAY MOTHER F@$%^R!
Our environment and our personal needs
+ Show Spoiler + SC2 is a video game, sure, but isn't it more than that? Mallows hierarchy of needs suggests that we ascend to the higher levels of existence when we satisfy basic needs. At the very height of his assembly is self-actualization. I suspect that most people who play SC2 are in a state of self-actualization. Therefore, SC2 must be more than just a video game. It is an arena to actualize our skill, determination and competitive edge. Furthermore, it is a way to prove ourselves against an equally matched opponent who is striving for the exact same fulfilment we are. Our id projects the need to self-gratify and our ego has the need to create value in ourselves. Defeat is more than simply losing armies and structures – losing a game – it is losing a gasp on self-assuredness and even losing a part of our perception or reality of ourselves. Therefore, anger, BM and hatred are a sensible reaction to winning or losing a match. Our need to project victory at all costs, or shelter our ego, in loss, at all costs suggests that we should act or react this way.http://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow.html
This is a game of war
+ Show Spoiler + Perhaps our ego and tempers get in the way of a happy-go-lucky mentality to play SC2. But let’s face it; this game is a game of war. You’re killing your opponents units and you’re having your own be killed in combat. We probably don’t always think of it this way… like “Yes, I'm slaughtering so many human marines right now with my roaches… muahahaha”… but at times it does feel good to crush our enemy in a battle and watch the digital bodies litre the map. I believe that, in the back of our minds, we all find pleasure in the explosions, cries of death and limited gore created in SC2.
We play better when we hate our opponent
+ Show Spoiler + There is an old joke (or saying) that goes along the lines of… If two men are attacked by a bear in the forest, to survive, one man does not need to our run the bear, he simply needs to out run the other man. If two opponents meet in an SC2 game (be it 1v1 or team games) they don’t need to outplay their opponent. They need to kill him. This killer instinct is in direct relation to our survival instinct. To simply outplay your opponent does not necessarily mean you will win the game. You need to have a killing instinct, you need to have an urge to destroy him, to put him down and never have him come up (unless you que up against him again in another game lol). In the book, 48 laws of power, one of the laws states that if you’re going to defeat your opponent, you should destroy him utterly. Artosis once said, if you’re ahead, get more ahead. Day[9] once said, “Just go fucking kill him”. To just go fucking kill him takes you past the urge to simply play well. You must digress to a survival instinct, the killer instinct, and unleash your prowess, skill and hatred on your opponent. http://cgt411.tech.purdue.edu/covey/48_laws_of_power.htm
It’s all a balancing act
+ Show Spoiler + SC2 is an equal-opportunity playing field. Your opponent is of equal skill. The map is almost perfectly balanced. In this context, a mindless brute cannot surely win a match against a quick witted, conniving opponent. The need to play well is probably a more intellectual need than the need to simply kill your opponent. I think you could argue that a player who simply wants to learn the game and be skilful and not necessarily win is the “higher” player. But let’s face it. We all want to win!
You need to balance your hatred with prowess. You need to start a game cool and collected, and in the moments where it proves to lash out and destroy your enemy, you should never hesitate to do so. Do not be afraid to utterly destroy, humiliate and crush your opponent. Do not shy away from victory.
BM, don’t hate it, love it
+ Show Spoiler + I think we can all see, now, why your opponents will BM you both in defeat and victory. Now that we understand our nature we can invite BM openly and even enjoy it.
Be honest with yourself. You could lose the game. Prepare for an emotional uprising and prepare to lash out at your opponent. On the other hand, you could win the game as well. This too will be an emotional experience and you may lash out at your opponent in triumph.
If you are the victor, prepare for BM from your opponent. Brace yourself, it could get messy depending on how much they associate SC2 winning and self-worth. Try not to react in a negative way to the BM. Accept it as a natural reaction to loss and move on. I'm not saying do not respond. Feel free to respond and defend yourself. But when it is all said and done, leave it behind you in the past.
Sportsmanship
+ Show Spoiler + Some could argue that BM is unsportsmanlike. I agree, but only in a public arena. Sportsmanship, as we know it, is usually defined when other people are involved in watching the match. Sportsmanship is often guidelines for how spectators wish to view player’s conduct. What they see and what they know are two completely different things. Players banter and BM each other all the time in traditional sport. Does the crowd hear about it? Are the players “playing” a certain “sportsmanlike way?”… Is it all an act or a preferred perception? Or is sportsmanship moral guidelines for how players should respect and treat each other…?
I strongly believe that there is no place for BM in a professional, spectacled event. However, two nerds gaming hard on their own time, in their own rooms, 1v1 on the internet!??! COME ON!!! BM AWAY MOTHER FUCKER!
I’ve played many, many off-line SC2 events. Even still, I've encountered BM in person; after the game, out loud between two players. Was it a professional match? No. Was it being watched by many other people? No. Where emotions and pride at stake? Yes. Did they have a right to make a fuss out of losing or winning? Yes. Did they make up and shake hands after? Yes. Was anyone really offended by it? No.
A little about me
+ Show Spoiler + I've been playing SC, Brood War and SC2 ever since each was released. I've always been in Masters league and I casually play throughout my weeks. I enjoy the game a lot, and I actually refrain from BM as much as possible ^^.
I'm 29, married and we're expecting. I work at a homeless foundation as the manager of volunteer resources. Previous this employment, I was a caseworker working directly with homeless men and woman and I also had a brief (year and a few months) gig working for a highly successful software company.
I love family, music, friendships and beer.
  
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Kings and Generals have always had two minds about this.
The plus side of being good mannered, is that it means your opponents are more likely to be good mannered to you also. Act like a dick, and your more likely going to be treated like a dick.
Refuse to treat with the enemy and act unilaterally, and people aren't going to treat with you either.
Act with dignity and honor and you're more likely to get people to act diplomatically with you.
It's really about what's important to you. If you don't care that other people perceive you in a negative way then by all means act like a dick, if you do care then have some restraint.
It's the internet, not everyone cares about how they come off to others. I'm not even suggesting that they should, but a lot of people do. That's why the argument for sportsmanlike conduct exists.
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On June 06 2014 03:43 Vindicare605 wrote:
Kings and Generals have always had two minds about this.
The plus side of being good mannered, is that it means your opponents are more likely to be good mannered to you also. Act like a dick, and your more likely going to be treated like a dick.
Refuse to treat with the enemy and act unilaterally, and people aren't going to treat with you either.
Act with dignity and honor and you're more likely to get people to act diplomatically with you.
It's really about what's important to you. If you don't care that other people perceive you in a negative way then by all means act like a dick, if you do care then have some restraint.
It's the internet, not everyone cares about how they come off to others. I'm not even suggesting that they should, but a lot of people do. That's why the argument for sportsmanlike conduct exists.
Good thoughts. As I was writing this blog; I realized I could get into a lot more of the moral or virtuous reasons why BM shouldn't ever be accepted. I tried to keep it on a purely rational or even animalism basis... but I do agree with what you say here for sure.
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On June 06 2014 03:20 mewithoutDrew wrote:
I am going to kill you or die trying.
Blizzard created a war game. They have put us as the chief commanders of our armies. Our pride, hard work, dedication, self-worth and skill is all on the line when we que up to challenge an opponent. In SC2 it is right to hate your opponent.
It's a game. "Our need to project victory at all costs, or shelter our ego, in loss, at all costs suggests that we should act or react this way.""...it does feel good to crush our enemy in a battle and watch the digital bodies litre the map." Artois once said, if you’re ahead, get more ahead. Day[9] once said, “Just go fucking kill him”. "If you are the victor, ... brace yourself, it could get messy depending on how much they associate SC2 winning and self-worth.""...two nerds gaming hard on their own time, in their own rooms, 1v1 on the internet!??! COME ON!!! BM AWAY MOTHER F@$%^R!Our environment and our personal needs+ Show Spoiler + SC2 is a video game, sure, but isn't it more than that? Mallows hierarchy of needs suggests that we ascend to the higher levels of existence when we satisfy basic needs. At the very height of his assembly is self-actualization. I suspect that most people who play SC2 are in a state of self-actualization. Therefore, SC2 must be more than just a video game. It is an arena to actualize our skill, determination and competitive edge. Furthermore, it is a way to prove ourselves against an equally matched opponent who is striving for the exact same fulfilment we are. Our id projects the need to self-gratify and our ego has the need to create value in ourselves. Defeat is more than simply losing armies and structures – losing a game – it is losing a gasp on self-assuredness and even losing a part of our perception or reality of ourselves. Therefore, anger, BM and hatred are a sensible reaction to winning or losing a match. Our need to project victory at all costs, or shelter our ego, in loss, at all costs suggests that we should act or react this way.http://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow.html I would argue that we should be building our self-assuredness on improving overall (over several games not the outcome of a single match). This is a game of war+ Show Spoiler + Perhaps our ego and tempers get in the way of a happy-go-lucky mentality to play SC2. But let’s face it; this game is a game of war. You’re killing your opponents units and you’re having your own be killed in combat. We probably don’t always think of it this way… like “Yes, I'm slaughtering so many human marines right now with my roaches… muahahaha”… but at times it does feel good to crush our enemy in a battle and watch the digital bodies litre the map. I believe that, in the back of our minds, we all find pleasure in the explosions, cries of death and limited gore created in SC2. There is an old joke (or saying) that goes along the lines of… If two men are attacked by a bear in the forest, to survive, one man does not need to our run the bear, he simply needs to out run the other man. If two opponents meet in an SC2 game (be it 1v1 or team games) they don’t need to outplay their opponent. They need to kill him. This killer instinct is in direct relation to our survival instinct. To simply outplay your opponent does not necessarily mean you will win the game. You need to have a killing instinct, you need to have an urge to destroy him, to put him down and never have him come up (unless you que up against him again in another game lol). In the book, 48 laws of power, one of the laws states that if you’re going to defeat your opponent, you should destroy him utterly. Artosis once said, if you’re ahead, get more ahead. Day[9] once said, “Just go fucking kill him”. To just go fucking kill him takes you past the urge to simply play well. You must digress to a survival instinct, the killer instinct, and unleash your prowess, skill and hatred on your opponent. http://cgt411.tech.purdue.edu/covey/48_laws_of_power.htm I don't see the correlation between killer instinct and hate. Knowing that you need to destroy an opponent to prevent any come back should be unrelated to your emotional response. Personally I prefer to keep emotion out of the way when I'm competing. It’s all a balancing act+ Show Spoiler + SC2 is an equal-opportunity playing field. Your opponent is of equal skill. The map is almost perfectly balanced. In this context, a mindless brute cannot surely win a match against a quick witted, conniving opponent. The need to play well is probably a more intellectual need than the need to simply kill your opponent. I think you could argue that a player who simply wants to learn the game and be skilful and not necessarily win is the “higher” player. But let’s face it. We all want to win!
You need to balance your hatred with prowess. You need to start a game cool and collected, and in the moments where it proves to lash out and destroy your enemy, you should never hesitate to do so. Do not be afraid to utterly destroy, humiliate and crush your opponent. Do not shy away from victory. Or again, just keep emotions out of it. BM, don’t hate it, love it+ Show Spoiler + I think we can all see, now, why your opponents will BM you both in defeat and victory. Now that we understand our nature we can invite BM openly and even enjoy it.
Be honest with yourself. You could lose the game. Prepare for an emotional uprising and prepare to lash out at your opponent. On the other hand, you could win the game as well. This too will be an emotional experience and you may lash out at your opponent in triumph.
If you are the victor, prepare for BM from your opponent. Brace yourself, it could get messy depending on how much they associate SC2 winning and self-worth. Try not to react in a negative way to the BM. Accept it as a natural reaction to loss and move on. I'm not saying do not respond. Feel free to respond and defend yourself. But when it is all said and done, leave it behind you in the past. I like what you say after the first lines...Sportsmanship+ Show Spoiler + Some could argue that BM is unsportsmanlike. I agree, but only in a public arena. Sportsmanship, as we know it, is usually defined when other people are involved in watching the match. Sportsmanship is often guidelines for how spectators wish to view player’s conduct. What they see and what they know are two completely different things. Players banter and BM each other all the time in traditional sport. Does the crowd hear about it? Are the players “playing” a certain “sportsmanlike way?”… Is it all an act or a preferred perception? Or is sportsmanship moral guidelines for how players should respect and treat each other…?
I strongly believe that there is no place for BM in a professional, spectacled event. However, two nerds gaming hard on their own time, in their own rooms, 1v1 on the internet!??! COME ON!!! BM AWAY MOTHER FUCKER!
I’ve played many, many off-line SC2 events. Even still, I've encountered BM in person; after the game, out loud between two players. Was it a professional match? No. Was it being watched by many other people? No. Where emotions and pride at stake? Yes. Did they have a right to make a fuss out of losing or winning? Yes. Did they make up and shake hands after? Yes. Was anyone really offended by it? No. I have to completely disagree with this. "Sportsmanship is an aspiration or ethos that a sport or activity will be enjoyed for its own sake." It doesn't matter if it's public or not. You either recognize and respect that your opponent, like you, is a person and competing. It has nothing to do with a third party.
There are indeed many professional competitors that try to get an advantage over their opponent by trying to draw an emotional response. This is really walking the line of sportsmanship and potentially comes down to how they treat their opponent after the competition ends. A little about me + Show Spoiler + I've been playing SC, Brood War and SC2 ever since each was released. I've always been in Masters league and I casually play throughout my weeks. I enjoy the game a lot, and I actually refrain from BM as much as possible ^^.
I'm 29, married and we're expecting. I work at a homeless foundation as the manager of volunteer resources. Previous this employment, I was a caseworker working directly with homeless men and woman and I also had a brief (year and a few months) gig working for a highly successful software company.
I love family, music, friendships and beer.
what's your favorite beer? /cheers
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y0su, thanks for your thoughts on that.
I like to write blogs that are outrageous or really one sided in the view, I believe it makes them more enjoyable to read.
To you and many others, it is just a game. You are right. But you're going to play people who value it more than that. Don't be weirded out when they lash out at you and the end of the match and BM you.
Do you watch pro matches, specifically proleague? Have you ever seen emotions run high in SC2? Perhaps I can suggest that better players actually allow their emotions to enhance the way they play the game... perhaps the best players do, in fact, hate their opponents at times...
Yeah the sportsmanship bit is really one sided and I didn't share my thoughts to respectfully of counter arguments. I really appreciate your remark on respect for the opponent on the basis of person-hood and competition.
I live in Canada and we have a lot of amazing micro breweries here. A Quebec brewery makes a beer called La Fin Du Monde. It is really great. I also love Erdinger too.
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I would point both of you to TL's Beer Appreciation thread. Lots of great brews that have been linked to over there.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/216492-beer-appreciation-thread?page=29
It's been inactive for a while but could always use new input for it.
My personal favorite is a brewery up near San Jose California called Hermitage brewing. My favorite by them is their ale of the Hermit. Hard to get down here in Southern California anymore, last time I had it was because my friend brought some back with him from his trip to the brewery to tour it.
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Ender's Game (the novel) taugh us that to defeat our opponent we must understand every facet of them. And in that process, we will come to love our opponent in their final moments as we destroy them.
And that's why idra GG'd early
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I don't consider my opponent when I play a game vs a random opponent. I play to improve myself and my understanding of the game, so that I can do amazing things in the game.
If I play against a friend, then I think of it as a co-operative effort. Both of us are trying to get better, and we are helping each other get better. The objective is not to win, the objective is mastery of the game. Winning is a side effect of approaching that objective.
Winning does not matter, because you can never truly win anyway. You can always play better. You can never play a perfect game. Winning simply means you played better than your one opponent happened to play that game. That is why playing well but barely losing to Bisu is better than playing poorly but smashing some D- beginner, because playing well and being skilled is what matters.
So it makes no sense for me to hate, or love, or feel anything, towards my opponent. If my opponent was a computer program playing StarCraft, I wouldn't hate that. And for me, my human opponents may as well be computer programs.
Furthermore, I think that hating a person for beating you at a game is utterly pathetic. Hatred should be reserved for far worse things.
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ObviousOne, Idra GG's are probably the trump card in any post... I think i'll just Edit the blog to include your thoughts and call this case closed!! lolololol
vOdToasT, great input man. It sounds like you do not value winning as much as respecting the game, your opponent and appreciating the value of learning and becoming a better gamer.
Like I said in my blog, guys like you are def of a "higher" quality of gamer. If peeps like you were not in the scene we'd all be a bunch of ruthless BMers who just care about winning. Maybe I'll meet you online one day and we'll have a respectable game... maybe I'll just blackout rage and smash my computer instead. hahah. gg
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On June 06 2014 03:20 mewithoutDrew wrote:
Blizzard created a war game.
You're not literally at war, or you would break your opponent's fingers so he couldn't play.
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On June 06 2014 07:02 ninazerg wrote:You're not literally at war, or you would break your opponent's fingers so he couldn't play.
Wait... At a lan, you wouldn't? jkjkjk
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Why would you hate someone you didn't know?
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On June 06 2014 07:31 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Why would you hate someone you didn't know?
People do it all the time.
It doesn't have to be a specific someone, just someone that's part of a group that you hate.
Is it entirely logical? Perhaps not, but that doesn't mean it isn't an extremely common practice.
For example: there are literally millions of people in the world right now that hate you and me because we're Americans.
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Our pride, hard work, dedication, self-worth and skill is all on the line when we que up to challenge an opponent.
This attitude is detrimental to your progress. If you feel your self worth slipping away, then you will become depressed and play worse. You may also want to quit playing. The only things you should feel are a desire to improve and excitement for the game itself. It will make you a better player and a more happy human being.
If a musician gets pissed every time he hits an incorrect note, and loses his sense of self worth, he will be miserable, and it will take him much longer to become a master, if he will ever become one.
I know you can't direct your emotions directly, but if you change your intellectual attitude - in this case, how you view the game - then your emotions will also change.
An example: If your goal is to win right now, you may feel disappointment and frustration if you lose.
If your goal is to get good at the game, you will try to figure out why you lost, and if you do, you will feel excited about trying your new solutions vs what ever made you lose. You will feel good about figuring out a solution to a problem, rather than feeling bad about losing. You will focus on the moment when you defeat the problem, instead of on the moment when the problem defeats you.
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On June 06 2014 07:41 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2014 07:31 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Why would you hate someone you didn't know? People do it all the time. It doesn't have to a specific someone, just someone that's part of a group that you hate. Is it entirely logical? Perhaps not, but that doesn't mean it isn't an extremely common practice. For example: there are literally millions of people in the world right now that hate you and me because we're Americans.
why would you hate somebody? love is argubaly nicer to feel
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Sabas123, Perhaps my next blog should be about loving the opponent in SC2....
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You strike me as someone that loses a lot and is trying to justify BM. Starcraft to me is a simple game of numbers and I seem to play better when I'm calm with a clear head. So get angry and yell BM - just do it on CoD with the other kids.
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Honestly everyone has their own way to approach a multiplayer game. A buddy of mine just plays for fun and keeps that mindset win or lose. I personally have a mindset that I am better and will beat them. If I lose I play better next time. I don't know why people get upset about being BM in the sc 2 community. Maybe because of day 9 and sheth being know as super nice or something that rubbed off and made us soft. I think players should be respectful . But if you cheese someone and they call you a "scumbag" or worse for doing it, don't be surprised.
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I would not enjoy playing SC2 with that attitude. I'm generally very good manner on ladder, but I don't expect good manner in return. If hating me is what my opponent needs to do to play well more power to him. If he BMs I just close chat.
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On June 06 2014 05:13 mewithoutDrew wrote:
y0su, thanks for your thoughts on that.
I like to write blogs that are outrageous or really one sided in the view, I believe it makes them more enjoyable to read.
To you and many others, it is just a game. You are right. But you're going to play people who value it more than that. Don't be weirded out when they lash out at you and the end of the match and BM you.
Do you watch pro matches, specifically proleague? Have you ever seen emotions run high in SC2? Perhaps I can suggest that better players actually allow their emotions to enhance the way they play the game... perhaps the best players do, in fact, hate their opponents at times...
Yeah the sportsmanship bit is really one sided and I didn't share my thoughts to respectfully of counter arguments. I really appreciate your remark on respect for the opponent on the basis of person-hood and competition.
I live in Canada and we have a lot of amazing micro breweries here. A Quebec brewery makes a beer called La Fin Du Monde. It is really great. I also love Erdinger too.
Very one sided arguments are indeed much more engaging :D
I do think emotions run very high in almost every level of competition. However, I still stand by the ideal that they don't shouldn't affect you during. As soon as you see 'GG' you release your inner dimaga (or MKP if you're the one typing).
I miss living near micro breweries 
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EPT
