• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:01
CEST 14:01
KST 21:01
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.162Rollback Netcode in Brood War875.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 202624Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup10
StarCraft 2
General
How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? 5.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 2026 ESL Pro Tour for SC2 discontinued Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.16 StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon
Tourneys
$3,500 WardiTV Not-Summer Championship Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Rollback Netcode in Brood War BSL23 Confirmations Starts on New BSL Portal ASL22 General Discussion Sagi.gg Launcher Released
Tourneys
ASL 22 Finals [ASL22] Semifinal B [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Semifinal A
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The Link Between Gaming and …
TrAiDoS
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 13499 users

Plato's "Euthyphro" - Page 2

Blogs > Mothra
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-12 18:45:49
May 12 2014 18:44 GMT
#21
so because socrates never wrote anything down and plato was only faithfully recording what actually happened, the phaedrus definitely criticize all writing, that is an intricate reading.
Deleted User 97295
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1137 Posts
May 12 2014 19:05 GMT
#22
--- Nuked ---
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
May 12 2014 19:13 GMT
#23
that has to do with the phaedrus how
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
May 13 2014 05:33 GMT
#24
Mothra asked to be banned? Awww, now he's going to miss my next blog.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
followZeRoX
Profile Joined March 2011
Serbia1451 Posts
May 13 2014 12:51 GMT
#25
On May 12 2014 07:38 Arrian wrote:
I don't find it particularly insightful.


Arrian United States
Letila
Profile Joined July 2012
Australia11 Posts
May 13 2014 13:11 GMT
#26
I think think there is another good way to interpret written material other than arguing it with others.

If you only read stuff that you are going to use, then you use it you can compare it to your experience and tell how much it does/doesnt make sense.

Here is a relevant piece by Isocrates: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0144:speech=13
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21248 Posts
May 13 2014 14:58 GMT
#27
On May 12 2014 20:41 Laertes wrote:
I think Plato's criticisms of the written word go back to beliefs his teacher Socrates held. Socrates never wrote anything down, it's likely true since we have nothing that survives of his while we have things that survive of Plato, just a generation removed from Socrates. Socrates never wrote anything down because he did not believe we as humans could know anything. Objective truth was the realm of the Gods. All of Plato's works do have echoes of Socrates, as Plato wrote to understand Socrates. This is likely why Phaedrus states not to trust what is written down, it is something that Socrates taught Plato, something that Plato wanted to understand. It is interesting, by the way since it also came up in this thread, to note that Socrates was forced to drink hemlock because one of his male students who was rich and powerful had a crush on him, Socrates had a wife and spurned his advances, telling him this. Now Socrates had made many enemies and when they saw an opening they took it and appealed before the courts of Athens. Because of who he was, Socrates was loathe to admit what they wanted to hear, and stood self-righteously before the court of Athens, refusing an apology. He was imprisoned on the Athenian "death row" and would be executed the following morning. Plato broke into his cell with friends and told him "leave here Socrates, you will die!" Socrates responded bluntly that he didn't want to live anywhere if not Athens. Socrates died the next morning from the paralyzing hemlock.

TL;DR/Conclusion
We can discuss all day what is directly apparant from Plato's dialogues, but unless we analyze the context we won't truly understand them. We can analyze them by taking them as inspired by real events and trusting that Plato is writing about shadows of things that really happened.


You do realize that the only accounts we have Socrates are from dialogues and writings by Plato, Xenophon, etc. All of these make no pretensions of being histories but are rather dramatized accounts designed to advance a philosophy or a view. It is reasonable to assume that the crux of these events actually transpired due to the number of corroborating texts, but it is absurd to think that we can reconstruct an unambiguous picture of intentions, motivations, and beliefs of any of the characters involved. I have no idea how you're analyzing "context" when the very context that you're analyzing is itself a construct of later authors.
TranslatorBaa!
Arrian
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States889 Posts
May 13 2014 18:52 GMT
#28
On May 13 2014 21:51 JanDe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2014 07:38 Arrian wrote:
I don't find it particularly insightful.


Arrian United States


'Scuse me?

Now, I recused myself from the thread since more knowledgeable people had more to contribute than I, and it WoT'd very fast, but I hold to that position for good reason and I'd be happy to discuss it but I don't think that that's what you had in mind.

So therefore I do not take your meaning, sir. Well, that is, as long as I presume charity. But I have substantial reason to doubt that presumption.
Writersator arepo tenet opera rotas
corumjhaelen
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
France6884 Posts
May 13 2014 21:34 GMT
#29
Self-reference paradox are boring.
Thanks for the thread, I really enjoyed chris' posts, and I more or less take his stance, with much less knowledge and precision obviously. My Plato intro dialogue would probably be Gorgias, but just as Phaedrus, it's probably too complex for an introduction. And there also, I think that Socrates doesn't really win the argument against Callicles.
And yeah, quiite of few of Plato's writings are very likely to differ with Socrates' teaching. As Aristotle said, one should prefer truth to friendship, and when you see the difference between say Meno and Sophists...
‎numquam se plus agere quam nihil cum ageret, numquam minus solum esse quam cum solus esset
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-14 13:59:25
May 14 2014 13:57 GMT
#30
Callicles is too strong to be tamed by his little tricks. Deleuze wrote a nice essay about it.
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
corumjhaelen
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
France6884 Posts
May 14 2014 14:07 GMT
#31
I know that Deleuze alludes to that in his book on Nietzsche. Do you have any more precise reference ? In any case I'm for once in agreement both with you and Deleuze, and in disagreement with the guy who wrote the preface to my edition, who seem to think Callicles is dumb. Plato mostly knows when he doesn't have a decisive argument.
‎numquam se plus agere quam nihil cum ageret, numquam minus solum esse quam cum solus esset
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-14 15:18:32
May 14 2014 15:09 GMT
#32
http://fr.scribd.com/doc/109142704/Deleuze-Nietzsche-et-la-philosophie

p.66-67

Socrates also tried to tame Alcibiades... and he failed again ! Mere words aren't enough with strong-willed people.
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Kung Fu Cup
20:00
2026 Week 27
IntoTheiNu 637
WardiTV315
RotterdaM289
TKL 166
SteadfastSC57
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 289
Lowko257
Reynor 196
TKL 166
SteadfastSC 57
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2244
Shuttle 1969
Horang2 702
FanTaSy 662
BeSt 519
Mini 339
Soma 279
EffOrt 252
Zeus 224
Larva 219
[ Show more ]
Snow 151
Last 141
Light 135
ZerO 117
Hyun 113
Dewaltoss 79
Pusan 73
Mong 37
ToSsGirL 37
PianO 36
Sharp 35
sorry 31
hero 29
sSak 25
Creator 24
Bishop 21
NotJumperer 21
Shinee 17
Sacsri 16
JYJ 16
yabsab 16
scan(afreeca) 9
Noble 5
Dota 2
Gorgc3505
Dendi919
resolut1ontv 144
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1458
Other Games
singsing2274
B2W.Neo664
crisheroes313
byalli213
DeMusliM127
KnowMe107
ZerO(Twitch)6
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick630
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 24
lovetv 8
[ Show 10 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 51
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 7
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
21h 59m
WardiTV Qualifier
22h 59m
Online Event
1d 22h
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Rush vs Soulkey
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
BSL Open Qualifier
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
IPSL
4 days
BSL Open Qualifier
4 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
5 days
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-10-13
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
HCC Season 3
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.