EPTPlato's "Euthyphro" - Page 2
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Deleted User 97295
1137 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
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followZeRoX
Serbia1451 Posts
On May 12 2014 07:38 Arrian wrote: I don't find it particularly insightful. Arrian United States | ||
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Letila
Australia11 Posts
If you only read stuff that you are going to use, then you use it you can compare it to your experience and tell how much it does/doesnt make sense. Here is a relevant piece by Isocrates: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0144:speech=13 | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21248 Posts
On May 12 2014 20:41 Laertes wrote: I think Plato's criticisms of the written word go back to beliefs his teacher Socrates held. Socrates never wrote anything down, it's likely true since we have nothing that survives of his while we have things that survive of Plato, just a generation removed from Socrates. Socrates never wrote anything down because he did not believe we as humans could know anything. Objective truth was the realm of the Gods. All of Plato's works do have echoes of Socrates, as Plato wrote to understand Socrates. This is likely why Phaedrus states not to trust what is written down, it is something that Socrates taught Plato, something that Plato wanted to understand. It is interesting, by the way since it also came up in this thread, to note that Socrates was forced to drink hemlock because one of his male students who was rich and powerful had a crush on him, Socrates had a wife and spurned his advances, telling him this. Now Socrates had made many enemies and when they saw an opening they took it and appealed before the courts of Athens. Because of who he was, Socrates was loathe to admit what they wanted to hear, and stood self-righteously before the court of Athens, refusing an apology. He was imprisoned on the Athenian "death row" and would be executed the following morning. Plato broke into his cell with friends and told him "leave here Socrates, you will die!" Socrates responded bluntly that he didn't want to live anywhere if not Athens. Socrates died the next morning from the paralyzing hemlock. TL;DR/Conclusion We can discuss all day what is directly apparant from Plato's dialogues, but unless we analyze the context we won't truly understand them. We can analyze them by taking them as inspired by real events and trusting that Plato is writing about shadows of things that really happened. You do realize that the only accounts we have Socrates are from dialogues and writings by Plato, Xenophon, etc. All of these make no pretensions of being histories but are rather dramatized accounts designed to advance a philosophy or a view. It is reasonable to assume that the crux of these events actually transpired due to the number of corroborating texts, but it is absurd to think that we can reconstruct an unambiguous picture of intentions, motivations, and beliefs of any of the characters involved. I have no idea how you're analyzing "context" when the very context that you're analyzing is itself a construct of later authors. | ||
Arrian
United States889 Posts
'Scuse me? Now, I recused myself from the thread since more knowledgeable people had more to contribute than I, and it WoT'd very fast, but I hold to that position for good reason and I'd be happy to discuss it but I don't think that that's what you had in mind. So therefore I do not take your meaning, sir. Well, that is, as long as I presume charity. But I have substantial reason to doubt that presumption. | ||
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
Thanks for the thread, I really enjoyed chris' posts, and I more or less take his stance, with much less knowledge and precision obviously. My Plato intro dialogue would probably be Gorgias, but just as Phaedrus, it's probably too complex for an introduction. And there also, I think that Socrates doesn't really win the argument against Callicles. And yeah, quiite of few of Plato's writings are very likely to differ with Socrates' teaching. As Aristotle said, one should prefer truth to friendship, and when you see the difference between say Meno and Sophists... | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
p.66-67 Socrates also tried to tame Alcibiades... and he failed again ! Mere words aren't enough with strong-willed people. | ||
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