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This just confirms what I knew all along: Liquid Dota is dead.
The team failing left and right reduced from Tier 1 to Tier clowns and the management seems to be fine just sitting on their asses writing funneh satire. Weak promises at TeamLiquidpro, no one making an initiative. I might have come off as trollish for being too critical even I have doubts of my real intentions, but after this, it seems I was having good foresight.
Worst Dota 2 coverage by far for a site that prides itself on being a Dota 2 website, even Dotatalk has more content. Considering how SC2 is dying, I find myself scratching my head why Dota 2 news barely scratches 2% of community news. I now know why, Liquid just couldn't give shit about Dota, they're too busy making themselves to look like the nice guys of esports. Worst, the fans don't care niether, you only see Heyoka and TheEmulator doing community posts.
Fuck, I'm done with Liquid the team and the site. Considering Fluff's gonna be fired after this, I guess he probably will be too, SC2 will always be it's baby, and once that ship has sunk, you could turn into TeamLoLquid and hire XDG Gaming for all I care. Hell, you're LoL section has more decent articles than Dota 2. And you know what, I did feel bad when you couldn't deliver your promise on "not being content about being good" but that was when I still cared.
+ Show Spoiler +pls no banhammerino + Show Spoiler +actually you know what, do what you like, delete my post whatever, I'm just a nobody
User was temp banned for martyring: "actually you know what, do what you like, delete my post whatever, I'm just a nobody". martyring is an automatic ban, but the rest of your post was fine.
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Well, if there ever was talk about inviting them, then there surely won't be now. I mean, this is all over reddit and tl, so people in the dota world will know about it, hence people at Valve will know about it.
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Damn, people on the Internet just make me sad.
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On March 13 2014 01:22 lilopuppy wrote:This just confirms what I knew all along: Liquid Dota is dead. The team failing left and right reduced from Tier 1 to Tier clowns and the management seems to be fine just sitting on their asses writing funneh satire. Weak promises at TeamLiquidpro, no one making an initiative. I might have come off as trollish for being too critical even I have doubts of my real intentions, but after this, it seems I was having good foresight. Worst Dota 2 coverage by far for a site that prides itself on being a Dota 2 website, even Dotatalk has more content. Considering how SC2 is dying, I find myself scratching my head why Dota 2 news barely scratches 2% of community news. I now know why, Liquid just couldn't give shit about Dota, they're too busy making themselves to look like the nice guys of esports. Worst, the fans don't care niether, you only see Heyoka and TheEmulator doing community posts. Fuck, I'm done with Liquid the team and the site. Considering Fluff's gonna be fired after this, I guess he probably will be too, SC2 will always be it's baby, and once that ship has sunk, you could turn into TeamLoLquid and hire XDG Gaming for all I care. Hell, you're LoL section has more decent articles than Dota 2. And you know what, I did feel bad when you couldn't deliver your promise on "not being content about being good" but that was when I still cared. + Show Spoiler +pls no banhammerino + Show Spoiler +actually you know what, do what you like, delete my post whatever, I'm just a nobody
Yeah I agree myself, TL is a great starcraft site and they have a good starcraft team but in terms of DotA? Very subpar. I appreciate the content that does come out but I then I go to the front page and see the last featured news post was almost from a week ago. They're not giving me a reason to visit this website over others in terms of DotA content.
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The thing is Dota 2 like any other competitive sport is more than just friendship and believe in your leadership. At the end of the day, you need skills. What I mean is players like Arteezy, Mushi win games. That's why the old EG was bad not because they had bad friendship/leadership, they had bad players. Plain and simple. I am not saying your team has bad players, but if I look at Liquid roster and I wouldn't believe they will win anything major.
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On March 13 2014 01:34 Eternalobi wrote:
What I mean is players like Arteezy, Mushi win games. That's why the old EG was bad not because they had bad friendship/leadership, they had bad players. Plain and simple. I am not saying your team has bad players, but if I look at Liquid roster and I wouldn't believe they will win anything major.
Really disagree, There is no skill problem on Liquid. Names are made by success. If problems in the team prevent success then how can these players make a name for themselves? If your post was true then a team like Fnatic would've never won anything.
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On March 13 2014 01:40 AwfuL_ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 01:34 Eternalobi wrote:
What I mean is players like Arteezy, Mushi win games. That's why the old EG was bad not because they had bad friendship/leadership, they had bad players. Plain and simple. I am not saying your team has bad players, but if I look at Liquid roster and I wouldn't believe they will win anything major. Really disagree, There is no skill problem on Liquid. Names are made by success. If problems in the team prevent success then how can these players make a name for themselves? If your post was true then a team like Fnatic would've never won anything.
The fuck? Fnatic has very talented players. Hanni was in the dota-proscene before it was cool.
I would agree with that statement. Look at Na'vi. Raw individual skill clearly wins tournaments.
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Yikes....
I'm hoping this can become one of those things (like EE's old post on going pro) where we can look back and say hey, not everyone thought this was the right thing to do but it worked out in the end. Best of luck to Fluff and TL.
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On March 12 2014 16:49 Julmust wrote:
... the problem was pretty much clear from the "Behind the Horse" documentary. Now I'm sure it doesn't show the full picture, but when Hot_Bid was lecturing you all there was no reaction. And that's the worst thing that can happen in a situation like that. Sometimes you need to have a huge blow out.
That's exactly what I was thinking. Granted it might not apply to Wayto and Qojqva but I agree that Hotbid was explaining the problems you guys had and nobody said or did anything other than when Mike joked that you guys would at least finish higher than Dignitas. It's good that you've admitted that there are huge issues on the team, and I can even understand doing it in a fashion that means the management on Team Liquid is going to have to do something about it one way or another, but it's not good that you guys were willing to perform below standards for so long and not discuss what was wrong before doing something like this.
I don't really know what Liquid as a team and as an organization can do at this point besides a shuffle, and that definitely scuttles any chance of an invite to TI. TI3 Liquid was my favorite team to root for, I hope it can resurface :/
Edit: also, part of what has made Liquid look less dominant, in my opinion, is that Fluff stopped being a playmaker. Fluff used to be one of my favorite supports to learn from. I remember when he first used a harpy to firstblood Bulldog, or when he stole enchant to turn around an enchantress centaur gank. And the huge CM ult at Rosh in the game vs LGD. But fluff hasn't done anything like that since the very early days of Liquid 2.0. Knowing it was intentional has made it hard for me to look at Fluff as a role model.
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Alright I'm going to put on my conspiracy hat for a second and just throw this out there:
FLUFF mentioned that he talked to Blitz before posting this rant and he also talked about how he experienced "true happiness" again when he drafted for 4 Asians + 1. That team was composed of Blitz, Eosin, Purge, Lumi and FLUFF. 3 of them are now in Team Zephyr (currently in Korea dominating Tier8 Korean teams, won ~$60k USD). Blitz also mentioned in an interview that FLUFF helped them a lot (watching replays, analyzing gameplay etc) when they lost 2-3 to EoT.Hammer.
What if Blitz told FLUFF that he has a spot on the team if he ever wanted it and pushed him to post this "career-ending blog post"? I imagine it would be tough to get out of his contract with Team Liquid and the quickest way to get out of it would be to get fired. The big question is: Who does FLUFF replace on Team Zephr? Probably Purge as he is the most low skilled and he would just transition to a Manager. I just don't see Purge as a pro player (given his age and current skill level) and being a Manager would be more fitting.
My guess is: FLUFF ends up joining Team Zephyr. As Captain and Drafter he would again experience "true happiness" (his words) and lead his team against Tier8 Korean teams.
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On March 13 2014 01:06 Saechiis wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 00:30 woojaekeem wrote:
A real leader would take some kind of decisive action, whether forcing some kind of private, internal discussion on the issue at hand or making in-team adjustments to their playstyle and methodology.
At the end of the day Fluff's blog only has empty, melodramatic rhetoric and legitimate, or delusional, notions of grandeur and success. That's not enough to be a leader. A leader doesn't feel the need to publicly vent or rant on private issues without first addressing problems internally to their full extent. You don't couple underlying threats of departure if things don't go your way with demands for the right to lead.
The right to lead is earned, not taken. It's willfully given by those that believe in you. Someone doesn't have to be a close friend of yours to respect you in a professional manner, or to believe in your capacity to be a captain. Fluff talks about his experience on FIRE and other teams as justification for him taking the reins here, but at the end of the day those teams are not liquid, and those players were not TC, Bulba, Wayto and Qojqva.
Imagine if you were TC or Wayto and you woke up to Fluff demanding control and leadership, whilst also decrying and showing complete lack of faith in your ability to draft, captain or serve as an in-game leader. That kind of action only sows mistrust, insecurity and resentment. A true leader knows how to benevolently address everyone's concerns without forcing the issue by putting it in the public eye. Fluff puts on an act of blaming himself and taking accountability throughout the blog, but at the end of the day it's just a pitch for why he thinks he should be, and always was, the best captain for the team.
If you were truly meant to lead you wouldn't have to make a pitch like that, and you wouldn't have remained quiet for so long. You would have inspired, elevated and supported your teammates when the going started to get tough, rather than publicly exposing things they may not want in the open for the sake of your own emotional satisfaction. Lead with actions of unity and guidance. Don't let yourself succumb to this kind of petulant emotional maelstrom.
Any man who must say, "I am the king" is no true king. I dislike all this talk about some kind of transcendent leader. The notion that you're either born a leader or not is such a moviescript reality. This Captain America'esque always knows what to do leader doesn't exist in real life, as Fluff has argued in his previous blogs, there's just people who rise to the occasion. I know it's popular to paint progamers as gods in their game's realm, but they continue to exist in reality. There's no amount of dedication that would allow them to train for days without sleep, no amount of will that can force a team to perform or a person to suck it up when he's had enough. This is the reaon why everyone hates the Korean Starcraft interviews, because there's always these impersonal political answers that we know are bullshit. Yet when a Liquid player opens up there's this negative backlash, why? Because the reality of the situation isn't in line with the perceived Liquid heroes? In reality this has been going on for more than a year, maybe this is the only way to break the equilibrium of political let's not say anything and pretend we're on our way to win TI4.
Ah. Finally. Someone who also has gone thru some real life stuff themselves and understands how important it is to have real people in the scene rather than dolled up androids. Fluff didnt need to do any of this. I understand the problems that the team and the administration may have with it but I think it all pales in the face of how much raw passion to succeed he shows.
Wud back him any day of the week. Just need the others to believe and Liquid should be back.
Also, individual skill was never a problem with this team. Bulba, qojva, TC, Fluff and Wayto are all top-tier. As was Korok.
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On March 13 2014 01:10 woojaekeem wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2014 01:06 Saechiis wrote:On March 13 2014 00:30 woojaekeem wrote:
A real leader would take some kind of decisive action, whether forcing some kind of private, internal discussion on the issue at hand or making in-team adjustments to their playstyle and methodology.
At the end of the day Fluff's blog only has empty, melodramatic rhetoric and legitimate, or delusional, notions of grandeur and success. That's not enough to be a leader. A leader doesn't feel the need to publicly vent or rant on private issues without first addressing problems internally to their full extent. You don't couple underlying threats of departure if things don't go your way with demands for the right to lead.
The right to lead is earned, not taken. It's willfully given by those that believe in you. Someone doesn't have to be a close friend of yours to respect you in a professional manner, or to believe in your capacity to be a captain. Fluff talks about his experience on FIRE and other teams as justification for him taking the reins here, but at the end of the day those teams are not liquid, and those players were not TC, Bulba, Wayto and Qojqva.
Imagine if you were TC or Wayto and you woke up to Fluff demanding control and leadership, whilst also decrying and showing complete lack of faith in your ability to draft, captain or serve as an in-game leader. That kind of action only sows mistrust, insecurity and resentment. A true leader knows how to benevolently address everyone's concerns without forcing the issue by putting it in the public eye. Fluff puts on an act of blaming himself and taking accountability throughout the blog, but at the end of the day it's just a pitch for why he thinks he should be, and always was, the best captain for the team.
If you were truly meant to lead you wouldn't have to make a pitch like that, and you wouldn't have remained quiet for so long. You would have inspired, elevated and supported your teammates when the going started to get tough, rather than publicly exposing things they may not want in the open for the sake of your own emotional satisfaction. Lead with actions of unity and guidance. Don't let yourself succumb to this kind of petulant emotional maelstrom.
Any man who must say, "I am the king" is no true king. I dislike all this talk about some kind of transcendent leader. The notion that you're either born a leader or not is such a moviescript reality. This Captain America'esque always knows what to do leader doesn't exist in real life, as Fluff has argued in his previous blogs, there's just people who rise to the occasion. I know it's popular to paint progamers as gods in their game's realm, but they continue to exist in reality. There's no amount of dedication that would allow them to train for days without sleep, no amount of will that can force a team to perform or a person to suck it up when he's had enough. This is the reaon why everyone hates the Korean Starcraft interviews, because there's always these impersonal political answers that we know are bullshit. Yet when a Liquid player opens up there's this negative backlash, why? Because the reality of the situation isn't in line with the perceived Liquid heroes? In reality this has been going on for more than a year, maybe this is the only way to break the equilibrium of political let's not say anything and pretend we're on our way to win TI4. There's a huge distinction between being honest with the public and airing dirty laundry without the rest of your team's consent. I never said that I expected them to be perfect, but publicly undermining your current captain and teammates while lionizing yourself is unacceptable. It's not about being a transcendent leader. It's about having the ability to address your team's interests and gain their respect without exacerbating the whole situation as a result of your need to satisfy some childish need for public catharsis. No one's asking Fluff to be the Nelson Mandela of Dota, but he should at least have the tact to understand basic principles of leadership if he's going to demand authority.
Calling Fluff's truth "dirty laundry" doesn't make it dishonest, you're adding your opinion on the matter painting it black. I think you're going to be hard pressed to make a case where Fluff doesn't want his team to succeed and make it to TI4.
You don't wan to set a precedent where a progamer speaks his mind and he gets shunned by the community for being open about his troubles. Clearly he was in need to post this blog, if his teammates find it offensive that's their right and we'll see what happens, but why would other people be opposed to getting insight into the team? Or is it just when there's troubles that progamers should do "the honorable thing" and keep it bottled up inside?
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This ego will destroy you or you will learn to work correctly with others. Stop reading shitty leadership books, accept your place if the team agrees upon it, and enjoy what you do. If you don't enjoy what you do, stop doing it and don't bring others down with you. You are so afraid of life, it's gross.
Peace out.
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Sometimes a good leader needs to let others lead for a while. It seems like you have this idea in your head that you have to assume complete responsibility for every little thing in order to be a leader but a good leader has to be able to delegate some of those responsibilities.
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Respect is earned, not given. And leadership is not as necessary when everyone already have a common goal and understand their mission. It helps for all to speak and input points and ideas but to believe that one person is the wisest when all have equally valid points will be a fault. Lastly, I think having a coach/manager would be wiser if team is unstable. They can speak with more objectivity.
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Come on fluff, this isn't the way to do things. I know it feels overwhelming and all but think about the rest. Your team mates, the management, the fans, the sponsors. If you were on any other team, this type of destabilizing post unprofessional blog would get you kicked. It's bad for the reputation, it's bad for team chemistry. I'm sorry it's just pretty selfish to me.
Don't over think fluff. If you don't love it just quit, this will not help.
EDIT: Another thing you should realise: when you were leader/drafter you felt that they don't trust/believe in your ability. But when TC leads, you doubt him and think you should be the one doing the job? Isn't that putting TC in the position you were in, where a team mate doesn't put his full faith in the leader? I would be really angry if I were TC.
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As manager of a LoL team i feel your pains. The team solo queu's but rarely shows up or does team practice myself. I feel like I'm forcing them to do that and we just get by. Then they all get mad but in the end it's their own fault for not doing anything about it and more importantly my fault for letting this happen......
The only thing you can do now as a leader is to break the barriers. Gain trust find ways to improve team communication trust and synergy. Regardless of your play I respect you as a macro leader
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
We all have choices to make in life; I hope you've gotten some catharsis out of this. I don't know what's going to happen next, but good luck Brian.
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Your blog reminds me of a friend of mine who uses to post in his own blog stuff like this: most of the times he manages to offend someone... all the other times he's completely misunderstood.
A loss/loss scenario no matter his intentions 
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I'm sorry to read this, FLUFF. I like you and I like your team- hearing this is disconcerting.
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EPT
