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On February 22 2014 02:39 MaestroSC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2014 01:43 Terranasaur wrote:On February 22 2014 00:01 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:On February 21 2014 12:21 Terranasaur wrote:On February 21 2014 10:49 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:On February 21 2014 10:17 hoby2000 wrote:On February 21 2014 08:58 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:
Two young guys came knocking at my door...i live in belgium, so im not very familiar with mormons..but after some googling it appears they do these kind of things alot.
Problem is im the kind of guy that has a hard time to simply say "no". Especially since i live in a city that is pretty hostile, people keep to themselves here. So it was a change of scenery to see two well-dressed guys, a few years younger then me knocking at my door and being more polite then anyone i have spoken to in ages. They asked if they could return sunday to talk about their faith..they also said they have a book to give, but that its entirely free and that they just wanted to give some information together with the book (book of mormons????).
My first thought when they came knocking at my door was that they were out on my money, so i was suprised when they said they had no such intentions...people in this day and age dont go from door to door without getting something in return, you never see that.
Maybe you american TL'ers got more experience with them? I also dont know why these guys are in belgium, when the religion is based on some american dude? They did have an english accent, it was very noticable. What will they tell me? Are they going to try and convert me? I dont believe in religion...yea maybe there is something out there, but im sure as hell not going to waste my time worshipping something that "might be".
Whats the polite way to not offend them without promising them that you will go to their church or whatever?
I dont hate these guys, i admire what they are doing, they seem very polite and if more people in my city were like these guys it sure as hell would be a better place. Its just that im a busy man and i really have no time for what is more then likely religious bullshit. How do you usually deal with these guys in america?
on the side note: Having many wives does seem like a good idea haha!
Hi. Former mormon (from birth till I was about 22 years old - 25 now). Essentially, you can ask them to not come back politely, and they'll understand. The only thing is that I can't guarantee someone won't be back in a year or so. Some of them do door-to-door, others may have recommendations pouring out their ears that they don't need to go door-to-door. It sounds like you got the latter, which means they'll be back - Not them in particular, but another pair will be back. I don't know when, but they will be. So my answer is: Just tell them you're not interested. Don't try to challenge their beliefs because the more you ask about them, the more likely they're going to return. If you've already ask some questions, chances are they'll keep coming back. You just have to be direct with them and let them know you would appreciate it if they didn't come back simply because you're not interested, but if you are, you will give them or the local bishop a heads up. Yeah, nice guys I bet though. I have a had several friends go on missions, and have been called all sorts of things. I understand that people get annoyed with them, but see it from their side: They're a million miles from home trying to accomplish a goal set forth for them for the next two years. They have little to no contact with their families, and they can't even give females hugs. I know you're annoyed, but the nicer you are to them, and the more direct you are about them not showing up again, the easier it will be for both parties. If they keep showing up every week though, I think the best thing to do is to get stern with them. No one should put up with that shit, even if they are in a situation that may not seem too great. Hey thanks for the advice. Yea i can imagine they are sacrificing alot to do this. And i can imagine alot of people being very rude to them...its probably requires alot of mental stamina to do what they do. Ill just be honest to them in a polite manner. Or maybe they'll want to play some starcraft and grab some beers. :D Current Mormon and former Mormon Missionary here, I also have a younger brother who is currently doing a mission in Japan (we're from the United States), hopefully my perspective will be useful to you. I know that religion can be a sensitive, and somewhat inflammatory subject, so I'll try to be neutral. Those two boys that came by your house are among a few thousand other Mormon missionaries that are on similar trips all over the world. They leave their homes for 18-24 months, and, at their own expense, travel to a (usually) far away place to help spread the word. Many of these missionaries travel to foreign countries, and speak new languages. Those that need to learn a new language receive 9-12 weeks of training and a small training center located in Provo, Utah USA, adjacent to the Mormon owned Brigham Young University. Throughout their Missions, these young men devote 100% of their time and attention to doing exactly what they did when they met you, going around and talking to people about religion. Obviously their main goal is to find people who are interested in joining the Mormon church, and helping them through the process, but they aren't going to fight with you about it. If you want to spend some time with them and just get some more information, maybe to clear up a few of the many, many, untrue rumors you'll find when you start to Google "Mormonism" (like the practice referenced in this thread about multiple wives. Something that Mormons haven't participated in for over 100 years) I'm sure they would be happy to chat about that. Even if you just wanted to talk about America, they'll do that too. You don't have to worry about them trying to hustle, brainwash, or pester you. If you tell them to stop coming by, they'll do it. Above all else, you will find them to be polite and well behaved. They honestly believe that they have something to share that can help you out. If you're not into it, they will respect your wishes and leave you alone. Also, if you're looking for information about what being a Mormon is all about, you should check out the official Mormon website: www.mormon.org Thanks! I did watch this vice documentary about a mormon colony...but it was pretty grim, with this manson type guy in prison giving out orders (or edicts as they called it). Im pretty sure that this probably only applies to 0.00000001% of mormons, and its probably a very one sided view of mormonism. You know, after i saw the documentary i was also convinced that mormons wernt allowed to go on the internet! But you are living proof that this is simply not true. So sure, lets hear their story, i want to know what its actually about, and not the stuff the media feeds us. Religion, even if i do not believe in it, but if it results in very polite and honest people, yea sure, why not? In the end if religion were to have a goal, it should still be to create a better world, and from what i see so far, mormonism does this a hell of a lot better then most other religions. I wouldnt mind my kids (if i had them) to be mormons if it would mean they would grow up to be polite young men with a mission in life who dont do drugs or drink alcohol. Respect to you guys. On February 22 2014 00:05 farvacola wrote:
Yeah Warren Jeffs represents a tiny minority of Mormons, though they are a scary lot. Just to clarify, Warren Jeffs(the "manson" guy form that movie) is not a Mormon. Neither is the group depicted in that documentary. That is a group called "The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints." I know the two names are similar, but that is about it. There are several other splinter groups that have left Mormonism and done their own thing. Most of those groups are very far removed from Mormonism, this group in particular. They are in no way affiliated with the Mormon church, and many of the things the believe are in direct contradiction to the beliefs of most Mormons. I can't stress this separation enough. I really respect your open mind. Ultimately, you hit the nail on the head. More than anything else, I think Mormonism is about people trying to be the very best that they can be, and helping others along the way. The Mormon church is one of the largest humanitarian organizations in the world, and and every scale (local, national, global) we really do our best to help those in need. Its the right thing to do. If you meet with those missionaries again, be sure to tell them the story about how you met a Mormon on an Starcraft Message Board. I'm sure they'll get a kick out of that. Good luck. Even then, it is a sect of Mormonism. Just a sect that modern day Mormons dont want to be associated with due to bad press. Basically, Warren Jeff follows a more strict version of Mormonism. He follows what Mormonism was originally. He stays true to the original fundamentals of the Mormon church. However, since originally, Mormonism was an extremely racist religion, that also encouraged its members to part-take in illegal activities (multiple wives is illegal in the US), so the Mormon church has since, started removing rules from the religion so that it can gain more followers who are willing to give their money to the church. Originally, Mormonism preached that all people with Dark skin, were sinners. This was the mark of Cain, the punishment for Cain's having killed his brother. Up until 50 years ago, people with dark skin were LITERALLY not allowed in the Mormon religion, because they were "evil". The multiple wives thing, was also a major part of Mormonism, as Joseph Smith wanted multiple wives, and it was a time in history when there was a great disparity between number of men+women so he figured, if they werent going to marry anyone else, he should be able to have as many as he wanted. But basically, over the past 50 years, the Mormon church came under fire for these beliefs, and just sort of cut them out of the book. And stopped believing them (how long ago was the civil rights movement again ;] ) Because racism was no longer appreciated by the masses. And if you want to know the origin of Mormonism: Joseph Smith, "found" golden plates, left behind by God (in Mormonism, they believe-or maybe used to believe- that North America, is actually where a lot of Christian activity originated, and not in the Middle East. Anyways, Jo Smith found these Golden Plates, that were basically an addendum to the Bible. Then Jo Smith dictated what was on these plates, to his business partner. Spouting that he found these missing chapters of the Bible. Jo's partner never saw the plates, and they mysteriously disappeared after Jo Smith had his Book of Mormon written. What isnt talked about is Jo Smith was a known fanatic, and was on the run due to being wanted for crimes, and needed help getting across the country, which is why he needed his Mormon army. (The story is EERILY similar to the origin of Islam.) Bonus Fact: In Mormonism, every man can achieve God-hood. Basically our God is just one God of millions of Gods. If you are a good Mormon, you are eventually given your own universe to rule, as God. Also magic underwear. (its a really weird rule about what kind of clothes you should wear under your clothes). Source: Ive studied Mormonism, my uncle was a bishop in a Mormon church.
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
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what a pointless rant.
HEY GUYS RELIGIONS HAVE SILLY MYTHOLOGIES.
what else is new.
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On February 22 2014 02:43 Terranasaur wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2014 02:39 MaestroSC wrote:On February 22 2014 01:43 Terranasaur wrote:On February 22 2014 00:01 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:On February 21 2014 12:21 Terranasaur wrote:On February 21 2014 10:49 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:On February 21 2014 10:17 hoby2000 wrote:On February 21 2014 08:58 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:
Two young guys came knocking at my door...i live in belgium, so im not very familiar with mormons..but after some googling it appears they do these kind of things alot.
Problem is im the kind of guy that has a hard time to simply say "no". Especially since i live in a city that is pretty hostile, people keep to themselves here. So it was a change of scenery to see two well-dressed guys, a few years younger then me knocking at my door and being more polite then anyone i have spoken to in ages. They asked if they could return sunday to talk about their faith..they also said they have a book to give, but that its entirely free and that they just wanted to give some information together with the book (book of mormons????).
My first thought when they came knocking at my door was that they were out on my money, so i was suprised when they said they had no such intentions...people in this day and age dont go from door to door without getting something in return, you never see that.
Maybe you american TL'ers got more experience with them? I also dont know why these guys are in belgium, when the religion is based on some american dude? They did have an english accent, it was very noticable. What will they tell me? Are they going to try and convert me? I dont believe in religion...yea maybe there is something out there, but im sure as hell not going to waste my time worshipping something that "might be".
Whats the polite way to not offend them without promising them that you will go to their church or whatever?
I dont hate these guys, i admire what they are doing, they seem very polite and if more people in my city were like these guys it sure as hell would be a better place. Its just that im a busy man and i really have no time for what is more then likely religious bullshit. How do you usually deal with these guys in america?
on the side note: Having many wives does seem like a good idea haha!
Hi. Former mormon (from birth till I was about 22 years old - 25 now). Essentially, you can ask them to not come back politely, and they'll understand. The only thing is that I can't guarantee someone won't be back in a year or so. Some of them do door-to-door, others may have recommendations pouring out their ears that they don't need to go door-to-door. It sounds like you got the latter, which means they'll be back - Not them in particular, but another pair will be back. I don't know when, but they will be. So my answer is: Just tell them you're not interested. Don't try to challenge their beliefs because the more you ask about them, the more likely they're going to return. If you've already ask some questions, chances are they'll keep coming back. You just have to be direct with them and let them know you would appreciate it if they didn't come back simply because you're not interested, but if you are, you will give them or the local bishop a heads up. Yeah, nice guys I bet though. I have a had several friends go on missions, and have been called all sorts of things. I understand that people get annoyed with them, but see it from their side: They're a million miles from home trying to accomplish a goal set forth for them for the next two years. They have little to no contact with their families, and they can't even give females hugs. I know you're annoyed, but the nicer you are to them, and the more direct you are about them not showing up again, the easier it will be for both parties. If they keep showing up every week though, I think the best thing to do is to get stern with them. No one should put up with that shit, even if they are in a situation that may not seem too great. Hey thanks for the advice. Yea i can imagine they are sacrificing alot to do this. And i can imagine alot of people being very rude to them...its probably requires alot of mental stamina to do what they do. Ill just be honest to them in a polite manner. Or maybe they'll want to play some starcraft and grab some beers. :D Current Mormon and former Mormon Missionary here, I also have a younger brother who is currently doing a mission in Japan (we're from the United States), hopefully my perspective will be useful to you. I know that religion can be a sensitive, and somewhat inflammatory subject, so I'll try to be neutral. Those two boys that came by your house are among a few thousand other Mormon missionaries that are on similar trips all over the world. They leave their homes for 18-24 months, and, at their own expense, travel to a (usually) far away place to help spread the word. Many of these missionaries travel to foreign countries, and speak new languages. Those that need to learn a new language receive 9-12 weeks of training and a small training center located in Provo, Utah USA, adjacent to the Mormon owned Brigham Young University. Throughout their Missions, these young men devote 100% of their time and attention to doing exactly what they did when they met you, going around and talking to people about religion. Obviously their main goal is to find people who are interested in joining the Mormon church, and helping them through the process, but they aren't going to fight with you about it. If you want to spend some time with them and just get some more information, maybe to clear up a few of the many, many, untrue rumors you'll find when you start to Google "Mormonism" (like the practice referenced in this thread about multiple wives. Something that Mormons haven't participated in for over 100 years) I'm sure they would be happy to chat about that. Even if you just wanted to talk about America, they'll do that too. You don't have to worry about them trying to hustle, brainwash, or pester you. If you tell them to stop coming by, they'll do it. Above all else, you will find them to be polite and well behaved. They honestly believe that they have something to share that can help you out. If you're not into it, they will respect your wishes and leave you alone. Also, if you're looking for information about what being a Mormon is all about, you should check out the official Mormon website: www.mormon.org Thanks! I did watch this vice documentary about a mormon colony...but it was pretty grim, with this manson type guy in prison giving out orders (or edicts as they called it). Im pretty sure that this probably only applies to 0.00000001% of mormons, and its probably a very one sided view of mormonism. You know, after i saw the documentary i was also convinced that mormons wernt allowed to go on the internet! But you are living proof that this is simply not true. So sure, lets hear their story, i want to know what its actually about, and not the stuff the media feeds us. Religion, even if i do not believe in it, but if it results in very polite and honest people, yea sure, why not? In the end if religion were to have a goal, it should still be to create a better world, and from what i see so far, mormonism does this a hell of a lot better then most other religions. I wouldnt mind my kids (if i had them) to be mormons if it would mean they would grow up to be polite young men with a mission in life who dont do drugs or drink alcohol. Respect to you guys. On February 22 2014 00:05 farvacola wrote:
Yeah Warren Jeffs represents a tiny minority of Mormons, though they are a scary lot. Just to clarify, Warren Jeffs(the "manson" guy form that movie) is not a Mormon. Neither is the group depicted in that documentary. That is a group called "The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints." I know the two names are similar, but that is about it. There are several other splinter groups that have left Mormonism and done their own thing. Most of those groups are very far removed from Mormonism, this group in particular. They are in no way affiliated with the Mormon church, and many of the things the believe are in direct contradiction to the beliefs of most Mormons. I can't stress this separation enough. I really respect your open mind. Ultimately, you hit the nail on the head. More than anything else, I think Mormonism is about people trying to be the very best that they can be, and helping others along the way. The Mormon church is one of the largest humanitarian organizations in the world, and and every scale (local, national, global) we really do our best to help those in need. Its the right thing to do. If you meet with those missionaries again, be sure to tell them the story about how you met a Mormon on an Starcraft Message Board. I'm sure they'll get a kick out of that. Good luck. Even then, it is a sect of Mormonism. Just a sect that modern day Mormons dont want to be associated with due to bad press. Basically, Warren Jeff follows a more strict version of Mormonism. He follows what Mormonism was originally. He stays true to the original fundamentals of the Mormon church. However, since originally, Mormonism was an extremely racist religion, that also encouraged its members to part-take in illegal activities (multiple wives is illegal in the US), so the Mormon church has since, started removing rules from the religion so that it can gain more followers who are willing to give their money to the church. Originally, Mormonism preached that all people with Dark skin, were sinners. This was the mark of Cain, the punishment for Cain's having killed his brother. Up until 50 years ago, people with dark skin were LITERALLY not allowed in the Mormon religion, because they were "evil". The multiple wives thing, was also a major part of Mormonism, as Joseph Smith wanted multiple wives, and it was a time in history when there was a great disparity between number of men+women so he figured, if they werent going to marry anyone else, he should be able to have as many as he wanted. But basically, over the past 50 years, the Mormon church came under fire for these beliefs, and just sort of cut them out of the book. And stopped believing them (how long ago was the civil rights movement again ;] ) Because racism was no longer appreciated by the masses. And if you want to know the origin of Mormonism: Joseph Smith, "found" golden plates, left behind by God (in Mormonism, they believe-or maybe used to believe- that North America, is actually where a lot of Christian activity originated, and not in the Middle East. Anyways, Jo Smith found these Golden Plates, that were basically an addendum to the Bible. Then Jo Smith dictated what was on these plates, to his business partner. Spouting that he found these missing chapters of the Bible. Jo's partner never saw the plates, and they mysteriously disappeared after Jo Smith had his Book of Mormon written. What isnt talked about is Jo Smith was a known fanatic, and was on the run due to being wanted for crimes, and needed help getting across the country, which is why he needed his Mormon army. (The story is EERILY similar to the origin of Islam.) Bonus Fact: In Mormonism, every man can achieve God-hood. Basically our God is just one God of millions of Gods. If you are a good Mormon, you are eventually given your own universe to rule, as God. Also magic underwear. (its a really weird rule about what kind of clothes you should wear under your clothes). Source: Ive studied Mormonism, my uncle was a bishop in a Mormon church. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
lol, right. do some research on the origins of your religion.
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On February 22 2014 02:39 MaestroSC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2014 01:43 Terranasaur wrote:On February 22 2014 00:01 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:On February 21 2014 12:21 Terranasaur wrote:On February 21 2014 10:49 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:On February 21 2014 10:17 hoby2000 wrote:On February 21 2014 08:58 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:
Two young guys came knocking at my door...i live in belgium, so im not very familiar with mormons..but after some googling it appears they do these kind of things alot.
Problem is im the kind of guy that has a hard time to simply say "no". Especially since i live in a city that is pretty hostile, people keep to themselves here. So it was a change of scenery to see two well-dressed guys, a few years younger then me knocking at my door and being more polite then anyone i have spoken to in ages. They asked if they could return sunday to talk about their faith..they also said they have a book to give, but that its entirely free and that they just wanted to give some information together with the book (book of mormons????).
My first thought when they came knocking at my door was that they were out on my money, so i was suprised when they said they had no such intentions...people in this day and age dont go from door to door without getting something in return, you never see that.
Maybe you american TL'ers got more experience with them? I also dont know why these guys are in belgium, when the religion is based on some american dude? They did have an english accent, it was very noticable. What will they tell me? Are they going to try and convert me? I dont believe in religion...yea maybe there is something out there, but im sure as hell not going to waste my time worshipping something that "might be".
Whats the polite way to not offend them without promising them that you will go to their church or whatever?
I dont hate these guys, i admire what they are doing, they seem very polite and if more people in my city were like these guys it sure as hell would be a better place. Its just that im a busy man and i really have no time for what is more then likely religious bullshit. How do you usually deal with these guys in america?
on the side note: Having many wives does seem like a good idea haha!
Hi. Former mormon (from birth till I was about 22 years old - 25 now). Essentially, you can ask them to not come back politely, and they'll understand. The only thing is that I can't guarantee someone won't be back in a year or so. Some of them do door-to-door, others may have recommendations pouring out their ears that they don't need to go door-to-door. It sounds like you got the latter, which means they'll be back - Not them in particular, but another pair will be back. I don't know when, but they will be. So my answer is: Just tell them you're not interested. Don't try to challenge their beliefs because the more you ask about them, the more likely they're going to return. If you've already ask some questions, chances are they'll keep coming back. You just have to be direct with them and let them know you would appreciate it if they didn't come back simply because you're not interested, but if you are, you will give them or the local bishop a heads up. Yeah, nice guys I bet though. I have a had several friends go on missions, and have been called all sorts of things. I understand that people get annoyed with them, but see it from their side: They're a million miles from home trying to accomplish a goal set forth for them for the next two years. They have little to no contact with their families, and they can't even give females hugs. I know you're annoyed, but the nicer you are to them, and the more direct you are about them not showing up again, the easier it will be for both parties. If they keep showing up every week though, I think the best thing to do is to get stern with them. No one should put up with that shit, even if they are in a situation that may not seem too great. Hey thanks for the advice. Yea i can imagine they are sacrificing alot to do this. And i can imagine alot of people being very rude to them...its probably requires alot of mental stamina to do what they do. Ill just be honest to them in a polite manner. Or maybe they'll want to play some starcraft and grab some beers. :D Current Mormon and former Mormon Missionary here, I also have a younger brother who is currently doing a mission in Japan (we're from the United States), hopefully my perspective will be useful to you. I know that religion can be a sensitive, and somewhat inflammatory subject, so I'll try to be neutral. Those two boys that came by your house are among a few thousand other Mormon missionaries that are on similar trips all over the world. They leave their homes for 18-24 months, and, at their own expense, travel to a (usually) far away place to help spread the word. Many of these missionaries travel to foreign countries, and speak new languages. Those that need to learn a new language receive 9-12 weeks of training and a small training center located in Provo, Utah USA, adjacent to the Mormon owned Brigham Young University. Throughout their Missions, these young men devote 100% of their time and attention to doing exactly what they did when they met you, going around and talking to people about religion. Obviously their main goal is to find people who are interested in joining the Mormon church, and helping them through the process, but they aren't going to fight with you about it. If you want to spend some time with them and just get some more information, maybe to clear up a few of the many, many, untrue rumors you'll find when you start to Google "Mormonism" (like the practice referenced in this thread about multiple wives. Something that Mormons haven't participated in for over 100 years) I'm sure they would be happy to chat about that. Even if you just wanted to talk about America, they'll do that too. You don't have to worry about them trying to hustle, brainwash, or pester you. If you tell them to stop coming by, they'll do it. Above all else, you will find them to be polite and well behaved. They honestly believe that they have something to share that can help you out. If you're not into it, they will respect your wishes and leave you alone. Also, if you're looking for information about what being a Mormon is all about, you should check out the official Mormon website: www.mormon.org Thanks! I did watch this vice documentary about a mormon colony...but it was pretty grim, with this manson type guy in prison giving out orders (or edicts as they called it). Im pretty sure that this probably only applies to 0.00000001% of mormons, and its probably a very one sided view of mormonism. You know, after i saw the documentary i was also convinced that mormons wernt allowed to go on the internet! But you are living proof that this is simply not true. So sure, lets hear their story, i want to know what its actually about, and not the stuff the media feeds us. Religion, even if i do not believe in it, but if it results in very polite and honest people, yea sure, why not? In the end if religion were to have a goal, it should still be to create a better world, and from what i see so far, mormonism does this a hell of a lot better then most other religions. I wouldnt mind my kids (if i had them) to be mormons if it would mean they would grow up to be polite young men with a mission in life who dont do drugs or drink alcohol. Respect to you guys. On February 22 2014 00:05 farvacola wrote:
Yeah Warren Jeffs represents a tiny minority of Mormons, though they are a scary lot. Just to clarify, Warren Jeffs(the "manson" guy form that movie) is not a Mormon. Neither is the group depicted in that documentary. That is a group called "The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints." I know the two names are similar, but that is about it. There are several other splinter groups that have left Mormonism and done their own thing. Most of those groups are very far removed from Mormonism, this group in particular. They are in no way affiliated with the Mormon church, and many of the things the believe are in direct contradiction to the beliefs of most Mormons. I can't stress this separation enough. I really respect your open mind. Ultimately, you hit the nail on the head. More than anything else, I think Mormonism is about people trying to be the very best that they can be, and helping others along the way. The Mormon church is one of the largest humanitarian organizations in the world, and and every scale (local, national, global) we really do our best to help those in need. Its the right thing to do. If you meet with those missionaries again, be sure to tell them the story about how you met a Mormon on an Starcraft Message Board. I'm sure they'll get a kick out of that. Good luck. Even then, it is a sect of Mormonism. Just a sect that modern day Mormons dont want to be associated with due to bad press. Basically, Warren Jeff follows a more strict version of Mormonism. He follows what Mormonism was originally. He stays true to the original fundamentals of the Mormon church. However, since originally, Mormonism was an extremely racist religion, that also encouraged its members to part-take in illegal activities (multiple wives is illegal in the US), so the Mormon church has since, started removing rules from the religion so that it can gain more followers who are willing to give their money to the church. Originally, Mormonism preached that all people with Dark skin, were sinners. This was the mark of Cain, the punishment for Cain's having killed his brother. Up until 50 years ago, people with dark skin were LITERALLY not allowed in the Mormon religion, because they were "evil". The multiple wives thing, was also a major part of Mormonism, as Joseph Smith wanted multiple wives, and it was a time in history when there was a great disparity between number of men+women so he figured, if they werent going to marry anyone else, he should be able to have as many as he wanted. But basically, over the past 50 years, the Mormon church came under fire for these beliefs, and just sort of cut them out of the book. And stopped believing them (how long ago was the civil rights movement again ;] ) Because racism was no longer appreciated by the masses. And if you want to know the origin of Mormonism: Joseph Smith, "found" golden plates, left behind by God (in Mormonism, they believe-or maybe used to believe- that North America, is actually where a lot of Christian activity originated, and not in the Middle East. Anyways, Jo Smith found these Golden Plates, that were basically an addendum to the Bible. Then Jo Smith dictated what was on these plates, to his business partner. Spouting that he found these missing chapters of the Bible. Jo's partner never saw the plates, and they mysteriously disappeared after Jo Smith had his Book of Mormon written. What isnt talked about is Jo Smith was a known fanatic, and was on the run due to being wanted for crimes, and needed help getting across the country, which is why he needed his Mormon army. (The story is EERILY similar to the origin of Islam.) Bonus Fact: In Mormonism, every man can achieve God-hood. Basically our God is just one God of millions of Gods. If you are a good Mormon, you are eventually given your own universe to rule, as God. Also magic underwear. (its a really weird rule about what kind of clothes you should wear under your clothes). Source: Ive studied Mormonism, my uncle was a bishop in a Mormon church.
Tell me more about this magic underwear. Epishade is intrigued.
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On February 22 2014 03:51 MaestroSC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2014 02:43 Terranasaur wrote:On February 22 2014 02:39 MaestroSC wrote:On February 22 2014 01:43 Terranasaur wrote:On February 22 2014 00:01 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:On February 21 2014 12:21 Terranasaur wrote:On February 21 2014 10:49 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:On February 21 2014 10:17 hoby2000 wrote:On February 21 2014 08:58 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:
Two young guys came knocking at my door...i live in belgium, so im not very familiar with mormons..but after some googling it appears they do these kind of things alot.
Problem is im the kind of guy that has a hard time to simply say "no". Especially since i live in a city that is pretty hostile, people keep to themselves here. So it was a change of scenery to see two well-dressed guys, a few years younger then me knocking at my door and being more polite then anyone i have spoken to in ages. They asked if they could return sunday to talk about their faith..they also said they have a book to give, but that its entirely free and that they just wanted to give some information together with the book (book of mormons????).
My first thought when they came knocking at my door was that they were out on my money, so i was suprised when they said they had no such intentions...people in this day and age dont go from door to door without getting something in return, you never see that.
Maybe you american TL'ers got more experience with them? I also dont know why these guys are in belgium, when the religion is based on some american dude? They did have an english accent, it was very noticable. What will they tell me? Are they going to try and convert me? I dont believe in religion...yea maybe there is something out there, but im sure as hell not going to waste my time worshipping something that "might be".
Whats the polite way to not offend them without promising them that you will go to their church or whatever?
I dont hate these guys, i admire what they are doing, they seem very polite and if more people in my city were like these guys it sure as hell would be a better place. Its just that im a busy man and i really have no time for what is more then likely religious bullshit. How do you usually deal with these guys in america?
on the side note: Having many wives does seem like a good idea haha!
Hi. Former mormon (from birth till I was about 22 years old - 25 now). Essentially, you can ask them to not come back politely, and they'll understand. The only thing is that I can't guarantee someone won't be back in a year or so. Some of them do door-to-door, others may have recommendations pouring out their ears that they don't need to go door-to-door. It sounds like you got the latter, which means they'll be back - Not them in particular, but another pair will be back. I don't know when, but they will be. So my answer is: Just tell them you're not interested. Don't try to challenge their beliefs because the more you ask about them, the more likely they're going to return. If you've already ask some questions, chances are they'll keep coming back. You just have to be direct with them and let them know you would appreciate it if they didn't come back simply because you're not interested, but if you are, you will give them or the local bishop a heads up. Yeah, nice guys I bet though. I have a had several friends go on missions, and have been called all sorts of things. I understand that people get annoyed with them, but see it from their side: They're a million miles from home trying to accomplish a goal set forth for them for the next two years. They have little to no contact with their families, and they can't even give females hugs. I know you're annoyed, but the nicer you are to them, and the more direct you are about them not showing up again, the easier it will be for both parties. If they keep showing up every week though, I think the best thing to do is to get stern with them. No one should put up with that shit, even if they are in a situation that may not seem too great. Hey thanks for the advice. Yea i can imagine they are sacrificing alot to do this. And i can imagine alot of people being very rude to them...its probably requires alot of mental stamina to do what they do. Ill just be honest to them in a polite manner. Or maybe they'll want to play some starcraft and grab some beers. :D Current Mormon and former Mormon Missionary here, I also have a younger brother who is currently doing a mission in Japan (we're from the United States), hopefully my perspective will be useful to you. I know that religion can be a sensitive, and somewhat inflammatory subject, so I'll try to be neutral. Those two boys that came by your house are among a few thousand other Mormon missionaries that are on similar trips all over the world. They leave their homes for 18-24 months, and, at their own expense, travel to a (usually) far away place to help spread the word. Many of these missionaries travel to foreign countries, and speak new languages. Those that need to learn a new language receive 9-12 weeks of training and a small training center located in Provo, Utah USA, adjacent to the Mormon owned Brigham Young University. Throughout their Missions, these young men devote 100% of their time and attention to doing exactly what they did when they met you, going around and talking to people about religion. Obviously their main goal is to find people who are interested in joining the Mormon church, and helping them through the process, but they aren't going to fight with you about it. If you want to spend some time with them and just get some more information, maybe to clear up a few of the many, many, untrue rumors you'll find when you start to Google "Mormonism" (like the practice referenced in this thread about multiple wives. Something that Mormons haven't participated in for over 100 years) I'm sure they would be happy to chat about that. Even if you just wanted to talk about America, they'll do that too. You don't have to worry about them trying to hustle, brainwash, or pester you. If you tell them to stop coming by, they'll do it. Above all else, you will find them to be polite and well behaved. They honestly believe that they have something to share that can help you out. If you're not into it, they will respect your wishes and leave you alone. Also, if you're looking for information about what being a Mormon is all about, you should check out the official Mormon website: www.mormon.org Thanks! I did watch this vice documentary about a mormon colony...but it was pretty grim, with this manson type guy in prison giving out orders (or edicts as they called it). Im pretty sure that this probably only applies to 0.00000001% of mormons, and its probably a very one sided view of mormonism. You know, after i saw the documentary i was also convinced that mormons wernt allowed to go on the internet! But you are living proof that this is simply not true. So sure, lets hear their story, i want to know what its actually about, and not the stuff the media feeds us. Religion, even if i do not believe in it, but if it results in very polite and honest people, yea sure, why not? In the end if religion were to have a goal, it should still be to create a better world, and from what i see so far, mormonism does this a hell of a lot better then most other religions. I wouldnt mind my kids (if i had them) to be mormons if it would mean they would grow up to be polite young men with a mission in life who dont do drugs or drink alcohol. Respect to you guys. On February 22 2014 00:05 farvacola wrote:
Yeah Warren Jeffs represents a tiny minority of Mormons, though they are a scary lot. Just to clarify, Warren Jeffs(the "manson" guy form that movie) is not a Mormon. Neither is the group depicted in that documentary. That is a group called "The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints." I know the two names are similar, but that is about it. There are several other splinter groups that have left Mormonism and done their own thing. Most of those groups are very far removed from Mormonism, this group in particular. They are in no way affiliated with the Mormon church, and many of the things the believe are in direct contradiction to the beliefs of most Mormons. I can't stress this separation enough. I really respect your open mind. Ultimately, you hit the nail on the head. More than anything else, I think Mormonism is about people trying to be the very best that they can be, and helping others along the way. The Mormon church is one of the largest humanitarian organizations in the world, and and every scale (local, national, global) we really do our best to help those in need. Its the right thing to do. If you meet with those missionaries again, be sure to tell them the story about how you met a Mormon on an Starcraft Message Board. I'm sure they'll get a kick out of that. Good luck. Even then, it is a sect of Mormonism. Just a sect that modern day Mormons dont want to be associated with due to bad press. Basically, Warren Jeff follows a more strict version of Mormonism. He follows what Mormonism was originally. He stays true to the original fundamentals of the Mormon church. However, since originally, Mormonism was an extremely racist religion, that also encouraged its members to part-take in illegal activities (multiple wives is illegal in the US), so the Mormon church has since, started removing rules from the religion so that it can gain more followers who are willing to give their money to the church. Originally, Mormonism preached that all people with Dark skin, were sinners. This was the mark of Cain, the punishment for Cain's having killed his brother. Up until 50 years ago, people with dark skin were LITERALLY not allowed in the Mormon religion, because they were "evil". The multiple wives thing, was also a major part of Mormonism, as Joseph Smith wanted multiple wives, and it was a time in history when there was a great disparity between number of men+women so he figured, if they werent going to marry anyone else, he should be able to have as many as he wanted. But basically, over the past 50 years, the Mormon church came under fire for these beliefs, and just sort of cut them out of the book. And stopped believing them (how long ago was the civil rights movement again ;] ) Because racism was no longer appreciated by the masses. And if you want to know the origin of Mormonism: Joseph Smith, "found" golden plates, left behind by God (in Mormonism, they believe-or maybe used to believe- that North America, is actually where a lot of Christian activity originated, and not in the Middle East. Anyways, Jo Smith found these Golden Plates, that were basically an addendum to the Bible. Then Jo Smith dictated what was on these plates, to his business partner. Spouting that he found these missing chapters of the Bible. Jo's partner never saw the plates, and they mysteriously disappeared after Jo Smith had his Book of Mormon written. What isnt talked about is Jo Smith was a known fanatic, and was on the run due to being wanted for crimes, and needed help getting across the country, which is why he needed his Mormon army. (The story is EERILY similar to the origin of Islam.) Bonus Fact: In Mormonism, every man can achieve God-hood. Basically our God is just one God of millions of Gods. If you are a good Mormon, you are eventually given your own universe to rule, as God. Also magic underwear. (its a really weird rule about what kind of clothes you should wear under your clothes). Source: Ive studied Mormonism, my uncle was a bishop in a Mormon church. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. lol, right. do some research on the origins of your religion.
"research"
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On February 22 2014 03:51 MaestroSC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2014 02:43 Terranasaur wrote:On February 22 2014 02:39 MaestroSC wrote:On February 22 2014 01:43 Terranasaur wrote:On February 22 2014 00:01 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:On February 21 2014 12:21 Terranasaur wrote:On February 21 2014 10:49 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:On February 21 2014 10:17 hoby2000 wrote:On February 21 2014 08:58 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:
Two young guys came knocking at my door...i live in belgium, so im not very familiar with mormons..but after some googling it appears they do these kind of things alot.
Problem is im the kind of guy that has a hard time to simply say "no". Especially since i live in a city that is pretty hostile, people keep to themselves here. So it was a change of scenery to see two well-dressed guys, a few years younger then me knocking at my door and being more polite then anyone i have spoken to in ages. They asked if they could return sunday to talk about their faith..they also said they have a book to give, but that its entirely free and that they just wanted to give some information together with the book (book of mormons????).
My first thought when they came knocking at my door was that they were out on my money, so i was suprised when they said they had no such intentions...people in this day and age dont go from door to door without getting something in return, you never see that.
Maybe you american TL'ers got more experience with them? I also dont know why these guys are in belgium, when the religion is based on some american dude? They did have an english accent, it was very noticable. What will they tell me? Are they going to try and convert me? I dont believe in religion...yea maybe there is something out there, but im sure as hell not going to waste my time worshipping something that "might be".
Whats the polite way to not offend them without promising them that you will go to their church or whatever?
I dont hate these guys, i admire what they are doing, they seem very polite and if more people in my city were like these guys it sure as hell would be a better place. Its just that im a busy man and i really have no time for what is more then likely religious bullshit. How do you usually deal with these guys in america?
on the side note: Having many wives does seem like a good idea haha!
Hi. Former mormon (from birth till I was about 22 years old - 25 now). Essentially, you can ask them to not come back politely, and they'll understand. The only thing is that I can't guarantee someone won't be back in a year or so. Some of them do door-to-door, others may have recommendations pouring out their ears that they don't need to go door-to-door. It sounds like you got the latter, which means they'll be back - Not them in particular, but another pair will be back. I don't know when, but they will be. So my answer is: Just tell them you're not interested. Don't try to challenge their beliefs because the more you ask about them, the more likely they're going to return. If you've already ask some questions, chances are they'll keep coming back. You just have to be direct with them and let them know you would appreciate it if they didn't come back simply because you're not interested, but if you are, you will give them or the local bishop a heads up. Yeah, nice guys I bet though. I have a had several friends go on missions, and have been called all sorts of things. I understand that people get annoyed with them, but see it from their side: They're a million miles from home trying to accomplish a goal set forth for them for the next two years. They have little to no contact with their families, and they can't even give females hugs. I know you're annoyed, but the nicer you are to them, and the more direct you are about them not showing up again, the easier it will be for both parties. If they keep showing up every week though, I think the best thing to do is to get stern with them. No one should put up with that shit, even if they are in a situation that may not seem too great. Hey thanks for the advice. Yea i can imagine they are sacrificing alot to do this. And i can imagine alot of people being very rude to them...its probably requires alot of mental stamina to do what they do. Ill just be honest to them in a polite manner. Or maybe they'll want to play some starcraft and grab some beers. :D Current Mormon and former Mormon Missionary here, I also have a younger brother who is currently doing a mission in Japan (we're from the United States), hopefully my perspective will be useful to you. I know that religion can be a sensitive, and somewhat inflammatory subject, so I'll try to be neutral. Those two boys that came by your house are among a few thousand other Mormon missionaries that are on similar trips all over the world. They leave their homes for 18-24 months, and, at their own expense, travel to a (usually) far away place to help spread the word. Many of these missionaries travel to foreign countries, and speak new languages. Those that need to learn a new language receive 9-12 weeks of training and a small training center located in Provo, Utah USA, adjacent to the Mormon owned Brigham Young University. Throughout their Missions, these young men devote 100% of their time and attention to doing exactly what they did when they met you, going around and talking to people about religion. Obviously their main goal is to find people who are interested in joining the Mormon church, and helping them through the process, but they aren't going to fight with you about it. If you want to spend some time with them and just get some more information, maybe to clear up a few of the many, many, untrue rumors you'll find when you start to Google "Mormonism" (like the practice referenced in this thread about multiple wives. Something that Mormons haven't participated in for over 100 years) I'm sure they would be happy to chat about that. Even if you just wanted to talk about America, they'll do that too. You don't have to worry about them trying to hustle, brainwash, or pester you. If you tell them to stop coming by, they'll do it. Above all else, you will find them to be polite and well behaved. They honestly believe that they have something to share that can help you out. If you're not into it, they will respect your wishes and leave you alone. Also, if you're looking for information about what being a Mormon is all about, you should check out the official Mormon website: www.mormon.org Thanks! I did watch this vice documentary about a mormon colony...but it was pretty grim, with this manson type guy in prison giving out orders (or edicts as they called it). Im pretty sure that this probably only applies to 0.00000001% of mormons, and its probably a very one sided view of mormonism. You know, after i saw the documentary i was also convinced that mormons wernt allowed to go on the internet! But you are living proof that this is simply not true. So sure, lets hear their story, i want to know what its actually about, and not the stuff the media feeds us. Religion, even if i do not believe in it, but if it results in very polite and honest people, yea sure, why not? In the end if religion were to have a goal, it should still be to create a better world, and from what i see so far, mormonism does this a hell of a lot better then most other religions. I wouldnt mind my kids (if i had them) to be mormons if it would mean they would grow up to be polite young men with a mission in life who dont do drugs or drink alcohol. Respect to you guys. On February 22 2014 00:05 farvacola wrote:
Yeah Warren Jeffs represents a tiny minority of Mormons, though they are a scary lot. Just to clarify, Warren Jeffs(the "manson" guy form that movie) is not a Mormon. Neither is the group depicted in that documentary. That is a group called "The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints." I know the two names are similar, but that is about it. There are several other splinter groups that have left Mormonism and done their own thing. Most of those groups are very far removed from Mormonism, this group in particular. They are in no way affiliated with the Mormon church, and many of the things the believe are in direct contradiction to the beliefs of most Mormons. I can't stress this separation enough. I really respect your open mind. Ultimately, you hit the nail on the head. More than anything else, I think Mormonism is about people trying to be the very best that they can be, and helping others along the way. The Mormon church is one of the largest humanitarian organizations in the world, and and every scale (local, national, global) we really do our best to help those in need. Its the right thing to do. If you meet with those missionaries again, be sure to tell them the story about how you met a Mormon on an Starcraft Message Board. I'm sure they'll get a kick out of that. Good luck. Even then, it is a sect of Mormonism. Just a sect that modern day Mormons dont want to be associated with due to bad press. Basically, Warren Jeff follows a more strict version of Mormonism. He follows what Mormonism was originally. He stays true to the original fundamentals of the Mormon church. However, since originally, Mormonism was an extremely racist religion, that also encouraged its members to part-take in illegal activities (multiple wives is illegal in the US), so the Mormon church has since, started removing rules from the religion so that it can gain more followers who are willing to give their money to the church. Originally, Mormonism preached that all people with Dark skin, were sinners. This was the mark of Cain, the punishment for Cain's having killed his brother. Up until 50 years ago, people with dark skin were LITERALLY not allowed in the Mormon religion, because they were "evil". The multiple wives thing, was also a major part of Mormonism, as Joseph Smith wanted multiple wives, and it was a time in history when there was a great disparity between number of men+women so he figured, if they werent going to marry anyone else, he should be able to have as many as he wanted. But basically, over the past 50 years, the Mormon church came under fire for these beliefs, and just sort of cut them out of the book. And stopped believing them (how long ago was the civil rights movement again ;] ) Because racism was no longer appreciated by the masses. And if you want to know the origin of Mormonism: Joseph Smith, "found" golden plates, left behind by God (in Mormonism, they believe-or maybe used to believe- that North America, is actually where a lot of Christian activity originated, and not in the Middle East. Anyways, Jo Smith found these Golden Plates, that were basically an addendum to the Bible. Then Jo Smith dictated what was on these plates, to his business partner. Spouting that he found these missing chapters of the Bible. Jo's partner never saw the plates, and they mysteriously disappeared after Jo Smith had his Book of Mormon written. What isnt talked about is Jo Smith was a known fanatic, and was on the run due to being wanted for crimes, and needed help getting across the country, which is why he needed his Mormon army. (The story is EERILY similar to the origin of Islam.) Bonus Fact: In Mormonism, every man can achieve God-hood. Basically our God is just one God of millions of Gods. If you are a good Mormon, you are eventually given your own universe to rule, as God. Also magic underwear. (its a really weird rule about what kind of clothes you should wear under your clothes). Source: Ive studied Mormonism, my uncle was a bishop in a Mormon church. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. lol, right. do some research on the origins of your religion.
While the sect Warren Jeffs led was known as the "fundamentalist" church, it's not really accurate that he follows the original fundamentals of the Mormon church, similar to how the modern "fundamentalist" Christian movement doesn't actually reflect a form of Christianity that existed in the past. The mainstream Mormon church doesn't shun them to avoid bad press, they shun them because they are considered heretical.
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On February 22 2014 04:21 Epishade wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2014 02:39 MaestroSC wrote:On February 22 2014 01:43 Terranasaur wrote:On February 22 2014 00:01 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:On February 21 2014 12:21 Terranasaur wrote:On February 21 2014 10:49 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:On February 21 2014 10:17 hoby2000 wrote:On February 21 2014 08:58 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:
Two young guys came knocking at my door...i live in belgium, so im not very familiar with mormons..but after some googling it appears they do these kind of things alot.
Problem is im the kind of guy that has a hard time to simply say "no". Especially since i live in a city that is pretty hostile, people keep to themselves here. So it was a change of scenery to see two well-dressed guys, a few years younger then me knocking at my door and being more polite then anyone i have spoken to in ages. They asked if they could return sunday to talk about their faith..they also said they have a book to give, but that its entirely free and that they just wanted to give some information together with the book (book of mormons????).
My first thought when they came knocking at my door was that they were out on my money, so i was suprised when they said they had no such intentions...people in this day and age dont go from door to door without getting something in return, you never see that.
Maybe you american TL'ers got more experience with them? I also dont know why these guys are in belgium, when the religion is based on some american dude? They did have an english accent, it was very noticable. What will they tell me? Are they going to try and convert me? I dont believe in religion...yea maybe there is something out there, but im sure as hell not going to waste my time worshipping something that "might be".
Whats the polite way to not offend them without promising them that you will go to their church or whatever?
I dont hate these guys, i admire what they are doing, they seem very polite and if more people in my city were like these guys it sure as hell would be a better place. Its just that im a busy man and i really have no time for what is more then likely religious bullshit. How do you usually deal with these guys in america?
on the side note: Having many wives does seem like a good idea haha!
Hi. Former mormon (from birth till I was about 22 years old - 25 now). Essentially, you can ask them to not come back politely, and they'll understand. The only thing is that I can't guarantee someone won't be back in a year or so. Some of them do door-to-door, others may have recommendations pouring out their ears that they don't need to go door-to-door. It sounds like you got the latter, which means they'll be back - Not them in particular, but another pair will be back. I don't know when, but they will be. So my answer is: Just tell them you're not interested. Don't try to challenge their beliefs because the more you ask about them, the more likely they're going to return. If you've already ask some questions, chances are they'll keep coming back. You just have to be direct with them and let them know you would appreciate it if they didn't come back simply because you're not interested, but if you are, you will give them or the local bishop a heads up. Yeah, nice guys I bet though. I have a had several friends go on missions, and have been called all sorts of things. I understand that people get annoyed with them, but see it from their side: They're a million miles from home trying to accomplish a goal set forth for them for the next two years. They have little to no contact with their families, and they can't even give females hugs. I know you're annoyed, but the nicer you are to them, and the more direct you are about them not showing up again, the easier it will be for both parties. If they keep showing up every week though, I think the best thing to do is to get stern with them. No one should put up with that shit, even if they are in a situation that may not seem too great. Hey thanks for the advice. Yea i can imagine they are sacrificing alot to do this. And i can imagine alot of people being very rude to them...its probably requires alot of mental stamina to do what they do. Ill just be honest to them in a polite manner. Or maybe they'll want to play some starcraft and grab some beers. :D Current Mormon and former Mormon Missionary here, I also have a younger brother who is currently doing a mission in Japan (we're from the United States), hopefully my perspective will be useful to you. I know that religion can be a sensitive, and somewhat inflammatory subject, so I'll try to be neutral. Those two boys that came by your house are among a few thousand other Mormon missionaries that are on similar trips all over the world. They leave their homes for 18-24 months, and, at their own expense, travel to a (usually) far away place to help spread the word. Many of these missionaries travel to foreign countries, and speak new languages. Those that need to learn a new language receive 9-12 weeks of training and a small training center located in Provo, Utah USA, adjacent to the Mormon owned Brigham Young University. Throughout their Missions, these young men devote 100% of their time and attention to doing exactly what they did when they met you, going around and talking to people about religion. Obviously their main goal is to find people who are interested in joining the Mormon church, and helping them through the process, but they aren't going to fight with you about it. If you want to spend some time with them and just get some more information, maybe to clear up a few of the many, many, untrue rumors you'll find when you start to Google "Mormonism" (like the practice referenced in this thread about multiple wives. Something that Mormons haven't participated in for over 100 years) I'm sure they would be happy to chat about that. Even if you just wanted to talk about America, they'll do that too. You don't have to worry about them trying to hustle, brainwash, or pester you. If you tell them to stop coming by, they'll do it. Above all else, you will find them to be polite and well behaved. They honestly believe that they have something to share that can help you out. If you're not into it, they will respect your wishes and leave you alone. Also, if you're looking for information about what being a Mormon is all about, you should check out the official Mormon website: www.mormon.org Thanks! I did watch this vice documentary about a mormon colony...but it was pretty grim, with this manson type guy in prison giving out orders (or edicts as they called it). Im pretty sure that this probably only applies to 0.00000001% of mormons, and its probably a very one sided view of mormonism. You know, after i saw the documentary i was also convinced that mormons wernt allowed to go on the internet! But you are living proof that this is simply not true. So sure, lets hear their story, i want to know what its actually about, and not the stuff the media feeds us. Religion, even if i do not believe in it, but if it results in very polite and honest people, yea sure, why not? In the end if religion were to have a goal, it should still be to create a better world, and from what i see so far, mormonism does this a hell of a lot better then most other religions. I wouldnt mind my kids (if i had them) to be mormons if it would mean they would grow up to be polite young men with a mission in life who dont do drugs or drink alcohol. Respect to you guys. On February 22 2014 00:05 farvacola wrote:
Yeah Warren Jeffs represents a tiny minority of Mormons, though they are a scary lot. Just to clarify, Warren Jeffs(the "manson" guy form that movie) is not a Mormon. Neither is the group depicted in that documentary. That is a group called "The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints." I know the two names are similar, but that is about it. There are several other splinter groups that have left Mormonism and done their own thing. Most of those groups are very far removed from Mormonism, this group in particular. They are in no way affiliated with the Mormon church, and many of the things the believe are in direct contradiction to the beliefs of most Mormons. I can't stress this separation enough. I really respect your open mind. Ultimately, you hit the nail on the head. More than anything else, I think Mormonism is about people trying to be the very best that they can be, and helping others along the way. The Mormon church is one of the largest humanitarian organizations in the world, and and every scale (local, national, global) we really do our best to help those in need. Its the right thing to do. If you meet with those missionaries again, be sure to tell them the story about how you met a Mormon on an Starcraft Message Board. I'm sure they'll get a kick out of that. Good luck. Even then, it is a sect of Mormonism. Just a sect that modern day Mormons dont want to be associated with due to bad press. Basically, Warren Jeff follows a more strict version of Mormonism. He follows what Mormonism was originally. He stays true to the original fundamentals of the Mormon church. However, since originally, Mormonism was an extremely racist religion, that also encouraged its members to part-take in illegal activities (multiple wives is illegal in the US), so the Mormon church has since, started removing rules from the religion so that it can gain more followers who are willing to give their money to the church. Originally, Mormonism preached that all people with Dark skin, were sinners. This was the mark of Cain, the punishment for Cain's having killed his brother. Up until 50 years ago, people with dark skin were LITERALLY not allowed in the Mormon religion, because they were "evil". The multiple wives thing, was also a major part of Mormonism, as Joseph Smith wanted multiple wives, and it was a time in history when there was a great disparity between number of men+women so he figured, if they werent going to marry anyone else, he should be able to have as many as he wanted. But basically, over the past 50 years, the Mormon church came under fire for these beliefs, and just sort of cut them out of the book. And stopped believing them (how long ago was the civil rights movement again ;] ) Because racism was no longer appreciated by the masses. And if you want to know the origin of Mormonism: Joseph Smith, "found" golden plates, left behind by God (in Mormonism, they believe-or maybe used to believe- that North America, is actually where a lot of Christian activity originated, and not in the Middle East. Anyways, Jo Smith found these Golden Plates, that were basically an addendum to the Bible. Then Jo Smith dictated what was on these plates, to his business partner. Spouting that he found these missing chapters of the Bible. Jo's partner never saw the plates, and they mysteriously disappeared after Jo Smith had his Book of Mormon written. What isnt talked about is Jo Smith was a known fanatic, and was on the run due to being wanted for crimes, and needed help getting across the country, which is why he needed his Mormon army. (The story is EERILY similar to the origin of Islam.) Bonus Fact: In Mormonism, every man can achieve God-hood. Basically our God is just one God of millions of Gods. If you are a good Mormon, you are eventually given your own universe to rule, as God. Also magic underwear. (its a really weird rule about what kind of clothes you should wear under your clothes). Source: Ive studied Mormonism, my uncle was a bishop in a Mormon church. Tell me more about this magic underwear. Epishade is intrigued.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_garment
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On February 21 2014 08:58 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:
Two young guys came knocking at my door...i live in belgium, so im not very familiar with mormons..but after some googling it appears they do these kind of things alot.
Problem is im the kind of guy that has a hard time to simply say "no". Especially since i live in a city that is pretty hostile, people keep to themselves here. So it was a change of scenery to see two well-dressed guys, a few years younger then me knocking at my door and being more polite then anyone i have spoken to in ages. They asked if they could return sunday to talk about their faith..they also said they have a book to give, but that its entirely free and that they just wanted to give some information together with the book (book of mormons????).
My first thought when they came knocking at my door was that they were out on my money, so i was suprised when they said they had no such intentions...people in this day and age dont go from door to door without getting something in return, you never see that.
Maybe you american TL'ers got more experience with them? I also dont know why these guys are in belgium, when the religion is based on some american dude? They did have an english accent, it was very noticable. What will they tell me? Are they going to try and convert me? I dont believe in religion...yea maybe there is something out there, but im sure as hell not going to waste my time worshipping something that "might be".
Whats the polite way to not offend them without promising them that you will go to their church or whatever?
I dont hate these guys, i admire what they are doing, they seem very polite and if more people in my city were like these guys it sure as hell would be a better place. Its just that im a busy man and i really have no time for what is more then likely religious bullshit. How do you usually deal with these guys in america?
on the side note: Having many wives does seem like a good idea haha!
Yeah we get these religious bastards over here knocking on the door as early as 7am on a Sunday morning.
I just straight away tell them i'm not interested and they generally just leave on that note.
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On February 22 2014 07:28 igay wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2014 08:58 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:
Two young guys came knocking at my door...i live in belgium, so im not very familiar with mormons..but after some googling it appears they do these kind of things alot.
Problem is im the kind of guy that has a hard time to simply say "no". Especially since i live in a city that is pretty hostile, people keep to themselves here. So it was a change of scenery to see two well-dressed guys, a few years younger then me knocking at my door and being more polite then anyone i have spoken to in ages. They asked if they could return sunday to talk about their faith..they also said they have a book to give, but that its entirely free and that they just wanted to give some information together with the book (book of mormons????).
My first thought when they came knocking at my door was that they were out on my money, so i was suprised when they said they had no such intentions...people in this day and age dont go from door to door without getting something in return, you never see that.
Maybe you american TL'ers got more experience with them? I also dont know why these guys are in belgium, when the religion is based on some american dude? They did have an english accent, it was very noticable. What will they tell me? Are they going to try and convert me? I dont believe in religion...yea maybe there is something out there, but im sure as hell not going to waste my time worshipping something that "might be".
Whats the polite way to not offend them without promising them that you will go to their church or whatever?
I dont hate these guys, i admire what they are doing, they seem very polite and if more people in my city were like these guys it sure as hell would be a better place. Its just that im a busy man and i really have no time for what is more then likely religious bullshit. How do you usually deal with these guys in america?
on the side note: Having many wives does seem like a good idea haha!
Yeah we get these religious bastards over here knocking on the door as early as 7am on a Sunday morning. I just straight away tell them i'm not interested and they generally just leave on that note.
That is definitely not the Mormons. They don't start knocking doors until at least 10AM per the regulations.
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On February 22 2014 02:39 MaestroSC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2014 01:43 Terranasaur wrote:On February 22 2014 00:01 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:On February 21 2014 12:21 Terranasaur wrote:On February 21 2014 10:49 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:On February 21 2014 10:17 hoby2000 wrote:On February 21 2014 08:58 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:
Two young guys came knocking at my door...i live in belgium, so im not very familiar with mormons..but after some googling it appears they do these kind of things alot.
Problem is im the kind of guy that has a hard time to simply say "no". Especially since i live in a city that is pretty hostile, people keep to themselves here. So it was a change of scenery to see two well-dressed guys, a few years younger then me knocking at my door and being more polite then anyone i have spoken to in ages. They asked if they could return sunday to talk about their faith..they also said they have a book to give, but that its entirely free and that they just wanted to give some information together with the book (book of mormons????).
My first thought when they came knocking at my door was that they were out on my money, so i was suprised when they said they had no such intentions...people in this day and age dont go from door to door without getting something in return, you never see that.
Maybe you american TL'ers got more experience with them? I also dont know why these guys are in belgium, when the religion is based on some american dude? They did have an english accent, it was very noticable. What will they tell me? Are they going to try and convert me? I dont believe in religion...yea maybe there is something out there, but im sure as hell not going to waste my time worshipping something that "might be".
Whats the polite way to not offend them without promising them that you will go to their church or whatever?
I dont hate these guys, i admire what they are doing, they seem very polite and if more people in my city were like these guys it sure as hell would be a better place. Its just that im a busy man and i really have no time for what is more then likely religious bullshit. How do you usually deal with these guys in america?
on the side note: Having many wives does seem like a good idea haha!
Hi. Former mormon (from birth till I was about 22 years old - 25 now). Essentially, you can ask them to not come back politely, and they'll understand. The only thing is that I can't guarantee someone won't be back in a year or so. Some of them do door-to-door, others may have recommendations pouring out their ears that they don't need to go door-to-door. It sounds like you got the latter, which means they'll be back - Not them in particular, but another pair will be back. I don't know when, but they will be. So my answer is: Just tell them you're not interested. Don't try to challenge their beliefs because the more you ask about them, the more likely they're going to return. If you've already ask some questions, chances are they'll keep coming back. You just have to be direct with them and let them know you would appreciate it if they didn't come back simply because you're not interested, but if you are, you will give them or the local bishop a heads up. Yeah, nice guys I bet though. I have a had several friends go on missions, and have been called all sorts of things. I understand that people get annoyed with them, but see it from their side: They're a million miles from home trying to accomplish a goal set forth for them for the next two years. They have little to no contact with their families, and they can't even give females hugs. I know you're annoyed, but the nicer you are to them, and the more direct you are about them not showing up again, the easier it will be for both parties. If they keep showing up every week though, I think the best thing to do is to get stern with them. No one should put up with that shit, even if they are in a situation that may not seem too great. Hey thanks for the advice. Yea i can imagine they are sacrificing alot to do this. And i can imagine alot of people being very rude to them...its probably requires alot of mental stamina to do what they do. Ill just be honest to them in a polite manner. Or maybe they'll want to play some starcraft and grab some beers. :D Current Mormon and former Mormon Missionary here, I also have a younger brother who is currently doing a mission in Japan (we're from the United States), hopefully my perspective will be useful to you. I know that religion can be a sensitive, and somewhat inflammatory subject, so I'll try to be neutral. Those two boys that came by your house are among a few thousand other Mormon missionaries that are on similar trips all over the world. They leave their homes for 18-24 months, and, at their own expense, travel to a (usually) far away place to help spread the word. Many of these missionaries travel to foreign countries, and speak new languages. Those that need to learn a new language receive 9-12 weeks of training and a small training center located in Provo, Utah USA, adjacent to the Mormon owned Brigham Young University. Throughout their Missions, these young men devote 100% of their time and attention to doing exactly what they did when they met you, going around and talking to people about religion. Obviously their main goal is to find people who are interested in joining the Mormon church, and helping them through the process, but they aren't going to fight with you about it. If you want to spend some time with them and just get some more information, maybe to clear up a few of the many, many, untrue rumors you'll find when you start to Google "Mormonism" (like the practice referenced in this thread about multiple wives. Something that Mormons haven't participated in for over 100 years) I'm sure they would be happy to chat about that. Even if you just wanted to talk about America, they'll do that too. You don't have to worry about them trying to hustle, brainwash, or pester you. If you tell them to stop coming by, they'll do it. Above all else, you will find them to be polite and well behaved. They honestly believe that they have something to share that can help you out. If you're not into it, they will respect your wishes and leave you alone. Also, if you're looking for information about what being a Mormon is all about, you should check out the official Mormon website: www.mormon.org Thanks! I did watch this vice documentary about a mormon colony...but it was pretty grim, with this manson type guy in prison giving out orders (or edicts as they called it). Im pretty sure that this probably only applies to 0.00000001% of mormons, and its probably a very one sided view of mormonism. You know, after i saw the documentary i was also convinced that mormons wernt allowed to go on the internet! But you are living proof that this is simply not true. So sure, lets hear their story, i want to know what its actually about, and not the stuff the media feeds us. Religion, even if i do not believe in it, but if it results in very polite and honest people, yea sure, why not? In the end if religion were to have a goal, it should still be to create a better world, and from what i see so far, mormonism does this a hell of a lot better then most other religions. I wouldnt mind my kids (if i had them) to be mormons if it would mean they would grow up to be polite young men with a mission in life who dont do drugs or drink alcohol. Respect to you guys. On February 22 2014 00:05 farvacola wrote:
Yeah Warren Jeffs represents a tiny minority of Mormons, though they are a scary lot. Just to clarify, Warren Jeffs(the "manson" guy form that movie) is not a Mormon. Neither is the group depicted in that documentary. That is a group called "The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints." I know the two names are similar, but that is about it. There are several other splinter groups that have left Mormonism and done their own thing. Most of those groups are very far removed from Mormonism, this group in particular. They are in no way affiliated with the Mormon church, and many of the things the believe are in direct contradiction to the beliefs of most Mormons. I can't stress this separation enough. I really respect your open mind. Ultimately, you hit the nail on the head. More than anything else, I think Mormonism is about people trying to be the very best that they can be, and helping others along the way. The Mormon church is one of the largest humanitarian organizations in the world, and and every scale (local, national, global) we really do our best to help those in need. Its the right thing to do. If you meet with those missionaries again, be sure to tell them the story about how you met a Mormon on an Starcraft Message Board. I'm sure they'll get a kick out of that. Good luck. Even then, it is a sect of Mormonism. Just a sect that modern day Mormons dont want to be associated with due to bad press. Basically, Warren Jeff follows a more strict version of Mormonism. He follows what Mormonism was originally. He stays true to the original fundamentals of the Mormon church. However, since originally, Mormonism was an extremely racist religion, that also encouraged its members to part-take in illegal activities (multiple wives is illegal in the US), so the Mormon church has since, started removing rules from the religion so that it can gain more followers who are willing to give their money to the church. Originally, Mormonism preached that all people with Dark skin, were sinners. This was the mark of Cain, the punishment for Cain's having killed his brother. Up until 50 years ago, people with dark skin were LITERALLY not allowed in the Mormon religion, because they were "evil". The multiple wives thing, was also a major part of Mormonism, as Joseph Smith wanted multiple wives, and it was a time in history when there was a great disparity between number of men+women so he figured, if they werent going to marry anyone else, he should be able to have as many as he wanted. But basically, over the past 50 years, the Mormon church came under fire for these beliefs, and just sort of cut them out of the book. And stopped believing them (how long ago was the civil rights movement again ;] ) Because racism was no longer appreciated by the masses. And if you want to know the origin of Mormonism: Joseph Smith, "found" golden plates, left behind by God (in Mormonism, they believe-or maybe used to believe- that North America, is actually where a lot of Christian activity originated, and not in the Middle East. Anyways, Jo Smith found these Golden Plates, that were basically an addendum to the Bible. Then Jo Smith dictated what was on these plates, to his business partner. Spouting that he found these missing chapters of the Bible. Jo's partner never saw the plates, and they mysteriously disappeared after Jo Smith had his Book of Mormon written. What isnt talked about is Jo Smith was a known fanatic, and was on the run due to being wanted for crimes, and needed help getting across the country, which is why he needed his Mormon army. (The story is EERILY similar to the origin of Islam.) Bonus Fact: In Mormonism, every man can achieve God-hood. Basically our God is just one God of millions of Gods. If you are a good Mormon, you are eventually given your own universe to rule, as God. Also magic underwear. (its a really weird rule about what kind of clothes you should wear under your clothes). Source: Ive studied Mormonism, my uncle was a bishop in a Mormon church.
Hey I'm a Mormon I just thought I'd clarify what is in this Post.
The part about the racist history is true but the Mormon religion was founded in the 1830's and racism was common back then. The blacks not being allowed to be part of the Mormon Church started with the second Leader of the church Brigham Young. Joseph Smith actually ran for president in the 1830's on an anti-slavery platform which was very radical for the day. This is the Mormon Churches official statement on that previous policy. http://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the-priesthood?lang=eng
Joseph Smith did not actually want to have multiple wives. The story goes that he was visited by an angel that told him to have the Mormon Church practice polygamy or be struck dead. The Mormon Church put out this article on about polygamy late last year. http://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-and-families-in-early-utah?lang=eng
Also 11 Men beside Joseph Smith saw the Golden plates from which the Book of Mormon was translated. the Men who had seen the Golden Plates wrote 2 articles about the experience. http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/eight?lang=eng and http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/three?lang=eng
Joseph Smith was arrested on multiple occasions but was never convicted. Joseph Smith was eventually martyred for his beliefs by a mob while he was being held in Carthage, Illinois. The Mormon Church now owns the jail where he died and give tours of the jail.
I hope this clears some of that up. I just felt that MaestroSC was putting a lot of bias into his explanation of my religion so I figured I'd give a clearer view of the religion. Also MaestroSC seems to just be spewing what could have come for some Anti-Mormon literature. Not a valid source for anything. He apparently hasn't done any deep research into the Mormon church or he would know a lot more details.
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On February 22 2014 08:19 nanook111 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2014 02:39 MaestroSC wrote:On February 22 2014 01:43 Terranasaur wrote:On February 22 2014 00:01 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:On February 21 2014 12:21 Terranasaur wrote:On February 21 2014 10:49 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:On February 21 2014 10:17 hoby2000 wrote:On February 21 2014 08:58 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:
Two young guys came knocking at my door...i live in belgium, so im not very familiar with mormons..but after some googling it appears they do these kind of things alot.
Problem is im the kind of guy that has a hard time to simply say "no". Especially since i live in a city that is pretty hostile, people keep to themselves here. So it was a change of scenery to see two well-dressed guys, a few years younger then me knocking at my door and being more polite then anyone i have spoken to in ages. They asked if they could return sunday to talk about their faith..they also said they have a book to give, but that its entirely free and that they just wanted to give some information together with the book (book of mormons????).
My first thought when they came knocking at my door was that they were out on my money, so i was suprised when they said they had no such intentions...people in this day and age dont go from door to door without getting something in return, you never see that.
Maybe you american TL'ers got more experience with them? I also dont know why these guys are in belgium, when the religion is based on some american dude? They did have an english accent, it was very noticable. What will they tell me? Are they going to try and convert me? I dont believe in religion...yea maybe there is something out there, but im sure as hell not going to waste my time worshipping something that "might be".
Whats the polite way to not offend them without promising them that you will go to their church or whatever?
I dont hate these guys, i admire what they are doing, they seem very polite and if more people in my city were like these guys it sure as hell would be a better place. Its just that im a busy man and i really have no time for what is more then likely religious bullshit. How do you usually deal with these guys in america?
on the side note: Having many wives does seem like a good idea haha!
Hi. Former mormon (from birth till I was about 22 years old - 25 now). Essentially, you can ask them to not come back politely, and they'll understand. The only thing is that I can't guarantee someone won't be back in a year or so. Some of them do door-to-door, others may have recommendations pouring out their ears that they don't need to go door-to-door. It sounds like you got the latter, which means they'll be back - Not them in particular, but another pair will be back. I don't know when, but they will be. So my answer is: Just tell them you're not interested. Don't try to challenge their beliefs because the more you ask about them, the more likely they're going to return. If you've already ask some questions, chances are they'll keep coming back. You just have to be direct with them and let them know you would appreciate it if they didn't come back simply because you're not interested, but if you are, you will give them or the local bishop a heads up. Yeah, nice guys I bet though. I have a had several friends go on missions, and have been called all sorts of things. I understand that people get annoyed with them, but see it from their side: They're a million miles from home trying to accomplish a goal set forth for them for the next two years. They have little to no contact with their families, and they can't even give females hugs. I know you're annoyed, but the nicer you are to them, and the more direct you are about them not showing up again, the easier it will be for both parties. If they keep showing up every week though, I think the best thing to do is to get stern with them. No one should put up with that shit, even if they are in a situation that may not seem too great. Hey thanks for the advice. Yea i can imagine they are sacrificing alot to do this. And i can imagine alot of people being very rude to them...its probably requires alot of mental stamina to do what they do. Ill just be honest to them in a polite manner. Or maybe they'll want to play some starcraft and grab some beers. :D Current Mormon and former Mormon Missionary here, I also have a younger brother who is currently doing a mission in Japan (we're from the United States), hopefully my perspective will be useful to you. I know that religion can be a sensitive, and somewhat inflammatory subject, so I'll try to be neutral. Those two boys that came by your house are among a few thousand other Mormon missionaries that are on similar trips all over the world. They leave their homes for 18-24 months, and, at their own expense, travel to a (usually) far away place to help spread the word. Many of these missionaries travel to foreign countries, and speak new languages. Those that need to learn a new language receive 9-12 weeks of training and a small training center located in Provo, Utah USA, adjacent to the Mormon owned Brigham Young University. Throughout their Missions, these young men devote 100% of their time and attention to doing exactly what they did when they met you, going around and talking to people about religion. Obviously their main goal is to find people who are interested in joining the Mormon church, and helping them through the process, but they aren't going to fight with you about it. If you want to spend some time with them and just get some more information, maybe to clear up a few of the many, many, untrue rumors you'll find when you start to Google "Mormonism" (like the practice referenced in this thread about multiple wives. Something that Mormons haven't participated in for over 100 years) I'm sure they would be happy to chat about that. Even if you just wanted to talk about America, they'll do that too. You don't have to worry about them trying to hustle, brainwash, or pester you. If you tell them to stop coming by, they'll do it. Above all else, you will find them to be polite and well behaved. They honestly believe that they have something to share that can help you out. If you're not into it, they will respect your wishes and leave you alone. Also, if you're looking for information about what being a Mormon is all about, you should check out the official Mormon website: www.mormon.org Thanks! I did watch this vice documentary about a mormon colony...but it was pretty grim, with this manson type guy in prison giving out orders (or edicts as they called it). Im pretty sure that this probably only applies to 0.00000001% of mormons, and its probably a very one sided view of mormonism. You know, after i saw the documentary i was also convinced that mormons wernt allowed to go on the internet! But you are living proof that this is simply not true. So sure, lets hear their story, i want to know what its actually about, and not the stuff the media feeds us. Religion, even if i do not believe in it, but if it results in very polite and honest people, yea sure, why not? In the end if religion were to have a goal, it should still be to create a better world, and from what i see so far, mormonism does this a hell of a lot better then most other religions. I wouldnt mind my kids (if i had them) to be mormons if it would mean they would grow up to be polite young men with a mission in life who dont do drugs or drink alcohol. Respect to you guys. On February 22 2014 00:05 farvacola wrote:
Yeah Warren Jeffs represents a tiny minority of Mormons, though they are a scary lot. Just to clarify, Warren Jeffs(the "manson" guy form that movie) is not a Mormon. Neither is the group depicted in that documentary. That is a group called "The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints." I know the two names are similar, but that is about it. There are several other splinter groups that have left Mormonism and done their own thing. Most of those groups are very far removed from Mormonism, this group in particular. They are in no way affiliated with the Mormon church, and many of the things the believe are in direct contradiction to the beliefs of most Mormons. I can't stress this separation enough. I really respect your open mind. Ultimately, you hit the nail on the head. More than anything else, I think Mormonism is about people trying to be the very best that they can be, and helping others along the way. The Mormon church is one of the largest humanitarian organizations in the world, and and every scale (local, national, global) we really do our best to help those in need. Its the right thing to do. If you meet with those missionaries again, be sure to tell them the story about how you met a Mormon on an Starcraft Message Board. I'm sure they'll get a kick out of that. Good luck. Even then, it is a sect of Mormonism. Just a sect that modern day Mormons dont want to be associated with due to bad press. Basically, Warren Jeff follows a more strict version of Mormonism. He follows what Mormonism was originally. He stays true to the original fundamentals of the Mormon church. However, since originally, Mormonism was an extremely racist religion, that also encouraged its members to part-take in illegal activities (multiple wives is illegal in the US), so the Mormon church has since, started removing rules from the religion so that it can gain more followers who are willing to give their money to the church. Originally, Mormonism preached that all people with Dark skin, were sinners. This was the mark of Cain, the punishment for Cain's having killed his brother. Up until 50 years ago, people with dark skin were LITERALLY not allowed in the Mormon religion, because they were "evil". The multiple wives thing, was also a major part of Mormonism, as Joseph Smith wanted multiple wives, and it was a time in history when there was a great disparity between number of men+women so he figured, if they werent going to marry anyone else, he should be able to have as many as he wanted. But basically, over the past 50 years, the Mormon church came under fire for these beliefs, and just sort of cut them out of the book. And stopped believing them (how long ago was the civil rights movement again ;] ) Because racism was no longer appreciated by the masses. And if you want to know the origin of Mormonism: Joseph Smith, "found" golden plates, left behind by God (in Mormonism, they believe-or maybe used to believe- that North America, is actually where a lot of Christian activity originated, and not in the Middle East. Anyways, Jo Smith found these Golden Plates, that were basically an addendum to the Bible. Then Jo Smith dictated what was on these plates, to his business partner. Spouting that he found these missing chapters of the Bible. Jo's partner never saw the plates, and they mysteriously disappeared after Jo Smith had his Book of Mormon written. What isnt talked about is Jo Smith was a known fanatic, and was on the run due to being wanted for crimes, and needed help getting across the country, which is why he needed his Mormon army. (The story is EERILY similar to the origin of Islam.) Bonus Fact: In Mormonism, every man can achieve God-hood. Basically our God is just one God of millions of Gods. If you are a good Mormon, you are eventually given your own universe to rule, as God. Also magic underwear. (its a really weird rule about what kind of clothes you should wear under your clothes). Source: Ive studied Mormonism, my uncle was a bishop in a Mormon church. Hey I'm a Mormon I just thought I'd clarify what is in this Post. The part about the racist history is true but the Mormon religion was founded in the 1830's and racism was common back then. The blacks not being allowed to be part of the Mormon Church started with the second Leader of the church Brigham Young. Joseph Smith actually ran for president in the 1830's on an anti-slavery platform which was very radical for the day. This is the Mormon Churches official statement on that previous policy. http://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the-priesthood?lang=engJoseph Smith did not actually want to have multiple wives. The story goes that he was visited by an angel that told him to have the Mormon Church practice polygamy or be struck dead. The Mormon Church put out this article on about polygamy late last year. http://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-and-families-in-early-utah?lang=engAlso 11 Men beside Joseph Smith saw the Golden plates from which the Book of Mormon was translated. the Men who had seen the Golden Plates wrote 2 articles about the experience. http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/eight?lang=eng and http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/three?lang=eng Joseph Smith was arrested on multiple occasions but was never convicted. Joseph Smith was eventually martyred for his beliefs by a mob while he was being held in Carthage, Illinois. The Mormon Church now owns the jail where he died and give tours of the jail. I hope this clears some of that up. I just felt that MaestroSC was putting a lot of bias into his explanation of my religion so I figured I'd give a clearer view of the religion. Also MaestroSC seems to just be spewing what could have come for some Anti-Mormon literature. Not a valid source for anything. He apparently hasn't done any deep research into the Mormon church or he would know a lot more details.
I cant say I put much credibility in the propaganda from a website, that exists solely to promote the LDS religion.
He writes a religion with a core belief that all people with dark skin are lesser and the color of their skin has to do with sin, yet he runs for president on an anti-slavery campagin? IDK who came up with this reasoning to defend the racist foundation of mormonism, but if people are buying it, then hat's off to them i suppose.
But its ok, cause "everyone was racist back then" so why should God, and his prophet be any different... they just wanted to fit in.
"I dont WANT to be a polygamist, GOD MADE ME" he said as he wrote into the book of Morman that they should start practicing polygamy.
Its really convenient, how things like this can get added later, when people realize that picking and choosing what you will continue to follow, and what you will no longer follow... doesnt make much sense as it pertains to religion. This would essentially be similar to saying "we believe in the bible... except Revelations... we dont believe in that book of it anymore"
11 men saw the plates? What religion do those men follow? Just curious? And where did the plates go? They evaporated into the Heavens i suppose.
IDK if i received a relic from God and was going to base the entire religion I created based on that single relic, I dont think I would misplace it. Especially if I had a small army, it would be protected and looked after at all times. I wonder where it went tho.
Not to mention, if someone can honestly go from "1 person?! i call bullshit" to "O shit, 11 people saw it?! fuck it must be true then" then power to them.
And "he was martyred for his religious beliefs" sounds a lot better than any alternative reason for what happened.
The fact that you dont see the inconvenient truths, just proves your dedication to your faith tho, which is admirable. We all need to believe in something, and you obviously believe what you believe for a reason.
I wont bash/comment/whatever on your religion/religous beliefs anymore, as frankly, if you want to believe it and follow it, go right on believing and following. Just thought I would share some info with some people who were asking about it. Obviously I would never believe/follow it.
And I used to have to go to a Mormon church 2-3times a month.
You guys have a great sense of community tho, there are very very few groups that look out for eachother, and help eachother as it pertains to business success, even near to the level of the LDS organization. Great networking.
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On February 22 2014 09:36 WarSame wrote:http://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the-priesthood?lang=eng For declaration 2, how come it says that it allowed men and women to be priests? I read declaration 2 and it never mentioned anything about women, and the declaration clearly stressed it was only for men.
That line was talking about the Temple Ordinances not the Priesthood. The Priesthood is reserved for men(I don't know why). If you have any more questions I'm happy to help. You can find out more information about the Mormon Church at http://mormon.org/eng
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On February 22 2014 09:09 MaestroSC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2014 08:19 nanook111 wrote:On February 22 2014 02:39 MaestroSC wrote:On February 22 2014 01:43 Terranasaur wrote:On February 22 2014 00:01 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:On February 21 2014 12:21 Terranasaur wrote:On February 21 2014 10:49 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:On February 21 2014 10:17 hoby2000 wrote:On February 21 2014 08:58 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:
Two young guys came knocking at my door...i live in belgium, so im not very familiar with mormons..but after some googling it appears they do these kind of things alot.
Problem is im the kind of guy that has a hard time to simply say "no". Especially since i live in a city that is pretty hostile, people keep to themselves here. So it was a change of scenery to see two well-dressed guys, a few years younger then me knocking at my door and being more polite then anyone i have spoken to in ages. They asked if they could return sunday to talk about their faith..they also said they have a book to give, but that its entirely free and that they just wanted to give some information together with the book (book of mormons????).
My first thought when they came knocking at my door was that they were out on my money, so i was suprised when they said they had no such intentions...people in this day and age dont go from door to door without getting something in return, you never see that.
Maybe you american TL'ers got more experience with them? I also dont know why these guys are in belgium, when the religion is based on some american dude? They did have an english accent, it was very noticable. What will they tell me? Are they going to try and convert me? I dont believe in religion...yea maybe there is something out there, but im sure as hell not going to waste my time worshipping something that "might be".
Whats the polite way to not offend them without promising them that you will go to their church or whatever?
I dont hate these guys, i admire what they are doing, they seem very polite and if more people in my city were like these guys it sure as hell would be a better place. Its just that im a busy man and i really have no time for what is more then likely religious bullshit. How do you usually deal with these guys in america?
on the side note: Having many wives does seem like a good idea haha!
Hi. Former mormon (from birth till I was about 22 years old - 25 now). Essentially, you can ask them to not come back politely, and they'll understand. The only thing is that I can't guarantee someone won't be back in a year or so. Some of them do door-to-door, others may have recommendations pouring out their ears that they don't need to go door-to-door. It sounds like you got the latter, which means they'll be back - Not them in particular, but another pair will be back. I don't know when, but they will be. So my answer is: Just tell them you're not interested. Don't try to challenge their beliefs because the more you ask about them, the more likely they're going to return. If you've already ask some questions, chances are they'll keep coming back. You just have to be direct with them and let them know you would appreciate it if they didn't come back simply because you're not interested, but if you are, you will give them or the local bishop a heads up. Yeah, nice guys I bet though. I have a had several friends go on missions, and have been called all sorts of things. I understand that people get annoyed with them, but see it from their side: They're a million miles from home trying to accomplish a goal set forth for them for the next two years. They have little to no contact with their families, and they can't even give females hugs. I know you're annoyed, but the nicer you are to them, and the more direct you are about them not showing up again, the easier it will be for both parties. If they keep showing up every week though, I think the best thing to do is to get stern with them. No one should put up with that shit, even if they are in a situation that may not seem too great. Hey thanks for the advice. Yea i can imagine they are sacrificing alot to do this. And i can imagine alot of people being very rude to them...its probably requires alot of mental stamina to do what they do. Ill just be honest to them in a polite manner. Or maybe they'll want to play some starcraft and grab some beers. :D Current Mormon and former Mormon Missionary here, I also have a younger brother who is currently doing a mission in Japan (we're from the United States), hopefully my perspective will be useful to you. I know that religion can be a sensitive, and somewhat inflammatory subject, so I'll try to be neutral. Those two boys that came by your house are among a few thousand other Mormon missionaries that are on similar trips all over the world. They leave their homes for 18-24 months, and, at their own expense, travel to a (usually) far away place to help spread the word. Many of these missionaries travel to foreign countries, and speak new languages. Those that need to learn a new language receive 9-12 weeks of training and a small training center located in Provo, Utah USA, adjacent to the Mormon owned Brigham Young University. Throughout their Missions, these young men devote 100% of their time and attention to doing exactly what they did when they met you, going around and talking to people about religion. Obviously their main goal is to find people who are interested in joining the Mormon church, and helping them through the process, but they aren't going to fight with you about it. If you want to spend some time with them and just get some more information, maybe to clear up a few of the many, many, untrue rumors you'll find when you start to Google "Mormonism" (like the practice referenced in this thread about multiple wives. Something that Mormons haven't participated in for over 100 years) I'm sure they would be happy to chat about that. Even if you just wanted to talk about America, they'll do that too. You don't have to worry about them trying to hustle, brainwash, or pester you. If you tell them to stop coming by, they'll do it. Above all else, you will find them to be polite and well behaved. They honestly believe that they have something to share that can help you out. If you're not into it, they will respect your wishes and leave you alone. Also, if you're looking for information about what being a Mormon is all about, you should check out the official Mormon website: www.mormon.org Thanks! I did watch this vice documentary about a mormon colony...but it was pretty grim, with this manson type guy in prison giving out orders (or edicts as they called it). Im pretty sure that this probably only applies to 0.00000001% of mormons, and its probably a very one sided view of mormonism. You know, after i saw the documentary i was also convinced that mormons wernt allowed to go on the internet! But you are living proof that this is simply not true. So sure, lets hear their story, i want to know what its actually about, and not the stuff the media feeds us. Religion, even if i do not believe in it, but if it results in very polite and honest people, yea sure, why not? In the end if religion were to have a goal, it should still be to create a better world, and from what i see so far, mormonism does this a hell of a lot better then most other religions. I wouldnt mind my kids (if i had them) to be mormons if it would mean they would grow up to be polite young men with a mission in life who dont do drugs or drink alcohol. Respect to you guys. On February 22 2014 00:05 farvacola wrote:
Yeah Warren Jeffs represents a tiny minority of Mormons, though they are a scary lot. Just to clarify, Warren Jeffs(the "manson" guy form that movie) is not a Mormon. Neither is the group depicted in that documentary. That is a group called "The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints." I know the two names are similar, but that is about it. There are several other splinter groups that have left Mormonism and done their own thing. Most of those groups are very far removed from Mormonism, this group in particular. They are in no way affiliated with the Mormon church, and many of the things the believe are in direct contradiction to the beliefs of most Mormons. I can't stress this separation enough. I really respect your open mind. Ultimately, you hit the nail on the head. More than anything else, I think Mormonism is about people trying to be the very best that they can be, and helping others along the way. The Mormon church is one of the largest humanitarian organizations in the world, and and every scale (local, national, global) we really do our best to help those in need. Its the right thing to do. If you meet with those missionaries again, be sure to tell them the story about how you met a Mormon on an Starcraft Message Board. I'm sure they'll get a kick out of that. Good luck. Even then, it is a sect of Mormonism. Just a sect that modern day Mormons dont want to be associated with due to bad press. Basically, Warren Jeff follows a more strict version of Mormonism. He follows what Mormonism was originally. He stays true to the original fundamentals of the Mormon church. However, since originally, Mormonism was an extremely racist religion, that also encouraged its members to part-take in illegal activities (multiple wives is illegal in the US), so the Mormon church has since, started removing rules from the religion so that it can gain more followers who are willing to give their money to the church. Originally, Mormonism preached that all people with Dark skin, were sinners. This was the mark of Cain, the punishment for Cain's having killed his brother. Up until 50 years ago, people with dark skin were LITERALLY not allowed in the Mormon religion, because they were "evil". The multiple wives thing, was also a major part of Mormonism, as Joseph Smith wanted multiple wives, and it was a time in history when there was a great disparity between number of men+women so he figured, if they werent going to marry anyone else, he should be able to have as many as he wanted. But basically, over the past 50 years, the Mormon church came under fire for these beliefs, and just sort of cut them out of the book. And stopped believing them (how long ago was the civil rights movement again ;] ) Because racism was no longer appreciated by the masses. And if you want to know the origin of Mormonism: Joseph Smith, "found" golden plates, left behind by God (in Mormonism, they believe-or maybe used to believe- that North America, is actually where a lot of Christian activity originated, and not in the Middle East. Anyways, Jo Smith found these Golden Plates, that were basically an addendum to the Bible. Then Jo Smith dictated what was on these plates, to his business partner. Spouting that he found these missing chapters of the Bible. Jo's partner never saw the plates, and they mysteriously disappeared after Jo Smith had his Book of Mormon written. What isnt talked about is Jo Smith was a known fanatic, and was on the run due to being wanted for crimes, and needed help getting across the country, which is why he needed his Mormon army. (The story is EERILY similar to the origin of Islam.) Bonus Fact: In Mormonism, every man can achieve God-hood. Basically our God is just one God of millions of Gods. If you are a good Mormon, you are eventually given your own universe to rule, as God. Also magic underwear. (its a really weird rule about what kind of clothes you should wear under your clothes). Source: Ive studied Mormonism, my uncle was a bishop in a Mormon church. Hey I'm a Mormon I just thought I'd clarify what is in this Post. The part about the racist history is true but the Mormon religion was founded in the 1830's and racism was common back then. The blacks not being allowed to be part of the Mormon Church started with the second Leader of the church Brigham Young. Joseph Smith actually ran for president in the 1830's on an anti-slavery platform which was very radical for the day. This is the Mormon Churches official statement on that previous policy. http://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the-priesthood?lang=engJoseph Smith did not actually want to have multiple wives. The story goes that he was visited by an angel that told him to have the Mormon Church practice polygamy or be struck dead. The Mormon Church put out this article on about polygamy late last year. http://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-and-families-in-early-utah?lang=engAlso 11 Men beside Joseph Smith saw the Golden plates from which the Book of Mormon was translated. the Men who had seen the Golden Plates wrote 2 articles about the experience. http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/eight?lang=eng and http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/three?lang=eng Joseph Smith was arrested on multiple occasions but was never convicted. Joseph Smith was eventually martyred for his beliefs by a mob while he was being held in Carthage, Illinois. The Mormon Church now owns the jail where he died and give tours of the jail. I hope this clears some of that up. I just felt that MaestroSC was putting a lot of bias into his explanation of my religion so I figured I'd give a clearer view of the religion. Also MaestroSC seems to just be spewing what could have come for some Anti-Mormon literature. Not a valid source for anything. He apparently hasn't done any deep research into the Mormon church or he would know a lot more details. I cant say I put much credibility in the propaganda from a website, that exists solely to promote the LDS religion. He writes a religion with a core belief that all people with dark skin are lesser and the color of their skin has to do with sin, yet he runs for president on an anti-slavery campagin? IDK who came up with this reasoning to defend the racist foundation of mormonism, but if people are buying it, then hat's off to them i suppose. But its ok, cause "everyone was racist back then" so why should God, and his prophet be any different... they just wanted to fit in. "I dont WANT to be a polygamist, GOD MADE ME" he said as he wrote into the book of Morman that they should start practicing polygamy. Its really convenient, how things like this can get added later, when people realize that picking and choosing what you will continue to follow, and what you will no longer follow... doesnt make much sense as it pertains to religion. This would essentially be similar to saying "we believe in the bible... except Revelations... we dont believe in that book of it anymore" 11 men saw the plates? What religion do those men follow? Just curious? And where did the plates go? They evaporated into the Heavens i suppose. IDK if i received a relic from God and was going to base the entire religion I created based on that single relic, I dont think I would misplace it. Especially if I had a small army, it would be protected and looked after at all times. I wonder where it went tho. Not to mention, if someone can honestly go from "1 person?! i call bullshit" to "O shit, 11 people saw it?! fuck it must be true then" then power to them. And "he was martyred for his religious beliefs" sounds a lot better than any alternative reason for what happened. The fact that you dont see the inconvenient truths, just proves your dedication to your faith tho, which is admirable. We all need to believe in something, and you obviously believe what you believe for a reason. I wont bash/comment/whatever on your religion/religous beliefs anymore, as frankly, if you want to believe it and follow it, go right on believing and following. Just thought I would share some info with some people who were asking about it. Obviously I would never believe/follow it. And I used to have to go to a Mormon church 2-3times a month. You guys have a great sense of community tho, there are very very few groups that look out for eachother, and help eachother as it pertains to business success, even near to the level of the LDS organization. Great networking.
You really are very ignorant. I'd love to point you to helpful information about the Mormon Church but it seems you don't really care about learning about the true history of the Mormon church. And I made it very clear that the racism against blacks began with the 2nd leader of the Church Brigham Young. If you want to learn more about Plural marriage in the Mormon Church please read the article I can't say it better than the article does. The Golden Plates that contained the Book of Mormon was taken by the Angle Moroni from Joseph Smith. Most of the men who saw the Plates fell away from the church but always said that they saw the plates. You are obviously never cared enough about the Mormon church to learn about it even when you went but thank you anyway for allowing me the opportunity to correct some common misconceptions about the Mormon Church.
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On February 22 2014 09:09 MaestroSC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2014 08:19 nanook111 wrote:On February 22 2014 02:39 MaestroSC wrote:On February 22 2014 01:43 Terranasaur wrote:On February 22 2014 00:01 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:On February 21 2014 12:21 Terranasaur wrote:On February 21 2014 10:49 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:On February 21 2014 10:17 hoby2000 wrote:On February 21 2014 08:58 SupplyBlockedTV wrote:
Two young guys came knocking at my door...i live in belgium, so im not very familiar with mormons..but after some googling it appears they do these kind of things alot.
Problem is im the kind of guy that has a hard time to simply say "no". Especially since i live in a city that is pretty hostile, people keep to themselves here. So it was a change of scenery to see two well-dressed guys, a few years younger then me knocking at my door and being more polite then anyone i have spoken to in ages. They asked if they could return sunday to talk about their faith..they also said they have a book to give, but that its entirely free and that they just wanted to give some information together with the book (book of mormons????).
My first thought when they came knocking at my door was that they were out on my money, so i was suprised when they said they had no such intentions...people in this day and age dont go from door to door without getting something in return, you never see that.
Maybe you american TL'ers got more experience with them? I also dont know why these guys are in belgium, when the religion is based on some american dude? They did have an english accent, it was very noticable. What will they tell me? Are they going to try and convert me? I dont believe in religion...yea maybe there is something out there, but im sure as hell not going to waste my time worshipping something that "might be".
Whats the polite way to not offend them without promising them that you will go to their church or whatever?
I dont hate these guys, i admire what they are doing, they seem very polite and if more people in my city were like these guys it sure as hell would be a better place. Its just that im a busy man and i really have no time for what is more then likely religious bullshit. How do you usually deal with these guys in america?
on the side note: Having many wives does seem like a good idea haha!
Hi. Former mormon (from birth till I was about 22 years old - 25 now). Essentially, you can ask them to not come back politely, and they'll understand. The only thing is that I can't guarantee someone won't be back in a year or so. Some of them do door-to-door, others may have recommendations pouring out their ears that they don't need to go door-to-door. It sounds like you got the latter, which means they'll be back - Not them in particular, but another pair will be back. I don't know when, but they will be. So my answer is: Just tell them you're not interested. Don't try to challenge their beliefs because the more you ask about them, the more likely they're going to return. If you've already ask some questions, chances are they'll keep coming back. You just have to be direct with them and let them know you would appreciate it if they didn't come back simply because you're not interested, but if you are, you will give them or the local bishop a heads up. Yeah, nice guys I bet though. I have a had several friends go on missions, and have been called all sorts of things. I understand that people get annoyed with them, but see it from their side: They're a million miles from home trying to accomplish a goal set forth for them for the next two years. They have little to no contact with their families, and they can't even give females hugs. I know you're annoyed, but the nicer you are to them, and the more direct you are about them not showing up again, the easier it will be for both parties. If they keep showing up every week though, I think the best thing to do is to get stern with them. No one should put up with that shit, even if they are in a situation that may not seem too great. Hey thanks for the advice. Yea i can imagine they are sacrificing alot to do this. And i can imagine alot of people being very rude to them...its probably requires alot of mental stamina to do what they do. Ill just be honest to them in a polite manner. Or maybe they'll want to play some starcraft and grab some beers. :D Current Mormon and former Mormon Missionary here, I also have a younger brother who is currently doing a mission in Japan (we're from the United States), hopefully my perspective will be useful to you. I know that religion can be a sensitive, and somewhat inflammatory subject, so I'll try to be neutral. Those two boys that came by your house are among a few thousand other Mormon missionaries that are on similar trips all over the world. They leave their homes for 18-24 months, and, at their own expense, travel to a (usually) far away place to help spread the word. Many of these missionaries travel to foreign countries, and speak new languages. Those that need to learn a new language receive 9-12 weeks of training and a small training center located in Provo, Utah USA, adjacent to the Mormon owned Brigham Young University. Throughout their Missions, these young men devote 100% of their time and attention to doing exactly what they did when they met you, going around and talking to people about religion. Obviously their main goal is to find people who are interested in joining the Mormon church, and helping them through the process, but they aren't going to fight with you about it. If you want to spend some time with them and just get some more information, maybe to clear up a few of the many, many, untrue rumors you'll find when you start to Google "Mormonism" (like the practice referenced in this thread about multiple wives. Something that Mormons haven't participated in for over 100 years) I'm sure they would be happy to chat about that. Even if you just wanted to talk about America, they'll do that too. You don't have to worry about them trying to hustle, brainwash, or pester you. If you tell them to stop coming by, they'll do it. Above all else, you will find them to be polite and well behaved. They honestly believe that they have something to share that can help you out. If you're not into it, they will respect your wishes and leave you alone. Also, if you're looking for information about what being a Mormon is all about, you should check out the official Mormon website: www.mormon.org Thanks! I did watch this vice documentary about a mormon colony...but it was pretty grim, with this manson type guy in prison giving out orders (or edicts as they called it). Im pretty sure that this probably only applies to 0.00000001% of mormons, and its probably a very one sided view of mormonism. You know, after i saw the documentary i was also convinced that mormons wernt allowed to go on the internet! But you are living proof that this is simply not true. So sure, lets hear their story, i want to know what its actually about, and not the stuff the media feeds us. Religion, even if i do not believe in it, but if it results in very polite and honest people, yea sure, why not? In the end if religion were to have a goal, it should still be to create a better world, and from what i see so far, mormonism does this a hell of a lot better then most other religions. I wouldnt mind my kids (if i had them) to be mormons if it would mean they would grow up to be polite young men with a mission in life who dont do drugs or drink alcohol. Respect to you guys. On February 22 2014 00:05 farvacola wrote:
Yeah Warren Jeffs represents a tiny minority of Mormons, though they are a scary lot. Just to clarify, Warren Jeffs(the "manson" guy form that movie) is not a Mormon. Neither is the group depicted in that documentary. That is a group called "The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints." I know the two names are similar, but that is about it. There are several other splinter groups that have left Mormonism and done their own thing. Most of those groups are very far removed from Mormonism, this group in particular. They are in no way affiliated with the Mormon church, and many of the things the believe are in direct contradiction to the beliefs of most Mormons. I can't stress this separation enough. I really respect your open mind. Ultimately, you hit the nail on the head. More than anything else, I think Mormonism is about people trying to be the very best that they can be, and helping others along the way. The Mormon church is one of the largest humanitarian organizations in the world, and and every scale (local, national, global) we really do our best to help those in need. Its the right thing to do. If you meet with those missionaries again, be sure to tell them the story about how you met a Mormon on an Starcraft Message Board. I'm sure they'll get a kick out of that. Good luck. Even then, it is a sect of Mormonism. Just a sect that modern day Mormons dont want to be associated with due to bad press. Basically, Warren Jeff follows a more strict version of Mormonism. He follows what Mormonism was originally. He stays true to the original fundamentals of the Mormon church. However, since originally, Mormonism was an extremely racist religion, that also encouraged its members to part-take in illegal activities (multiple wives is illegal in the US), so the Mormon church has since, started removing rules from the religion so that it can gain more followers who are willing to give their money to the church. Originally, Mormonism preached that all people with Dark skin, were sinners. This was the mark of Cain, the punishment for Cain's having killed his brother. Up until 50 years ago, people with dark skin were LITERALLY not allowed in the Mormon religion, because they were "evil". The multiple wives thing, was also a major part of Mormonism, as Joseph Smith wanted multiple wives, and it was a time in history when there was a great disparity between number of men+women so he figured, if they werent going to marry anyone else, he should be able to have as many as he wanted. But basically, over the past 50 years, the Mormon church came under fire for these beliefs, and just sort of cut them out of the book. And stopped believing them (how long ago was the civil rights movement again ;] ) Because racism was no longer appreciated by the masses. And if you want to know the origin of Mormonism: Joseph Smith, "found" golden plates, left behind by God (in Mormonism, they believe-or maybe used to believe- that North America, is actually where a lot of Christian activity originated, and not in the Middle East. Anyways, Jo Smith found these Golden Plates, that were basically an addendum to the Bible. Then Jo Smith dictated what was on these plates, to his business partner. Spouting that he found these missing chapters of the Bible. Jo's partner never saw the plates, and they mysteriously disappeared after Jo Smith had his Book of Mormon written. What isnt talked about is Jo Smith was a known fanatic, and was on the run due to being wanted for crimes, and needed help getting across the country, which is why he needed his Mormon army. (The story is EERILY similar to the origin of Islam.) Bonus Fact: In Mormonism, every man can achieve God-hood. Basically our God is just one God of millions of Gods. If you are a good Mormon, you are eventually given your own universe to rule, as God. Also magic underwear. (its a really weird rule about what kind of clothes you should wear under your clothes). Source: Ive studied Mormonism, my uncle was a bishop in a Mormon church. Hey I'm a Mormon I just thought I'd clarify what is in this Post. The part about the racist history is true but the Mormon religion was founded in the 1830's and racism was common back then. The blacks not being allowed to be part of the Mormon Church started with the second Leader of the church Brigham Young. Joseph Smith actually ran for president in the 1830's on an anti-slavery platform which was very radical for the day. This is the Mormon Churches official statement on that previous policy. http://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the-priesthood?lang=engJoseph Smith did not actually want to have multiple wives. The story goes that he was visited by an angel that told him to have the Mormon Church practice polygamy or be struck dead. The Mormon Church put out this article on about polygamy late last year. http://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-and-families-in-early-utah?lang=engAlso 11 Men beside Joseph Smith saw the Golden plates from which the Book of Mormon was translated. the Men who had seen the Golden Plates wrote 2 articles about the experience. http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/eight?lang=eng and http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/three?lang=eng Joseph Smith was arrested on multiple occasions but was never convicted. Joseph Smith was eventually martyred for his beliefs by a mob while he was being held in Carthage, Illinois. The Mormon Church now owns the jail where he died and give tours of the jail. I hope this clears some of that up. I just felt that MaestroSC was putting a lot of bias into his explanation of my religion so I figured I'd give a clearer view of the religion. Also MaestroSC seems to just be spewing what could have come for some Anti-Mormon literature. Not a valid source for anything. He apparently hasn't done any deep research into the Mormon church or he would know a lot more details. I cant say I put much credibility in the propaganda from a website, that exists solely to promote the LDS religion. He writes a religion with a core belief that all people with dark skin are lesser and the color of their skin has to do with sin, yet he runs for president on an anti-slavery campagin? IDK who came up with this reasoning to defend the racist foundation of mormonism, but if people are buying it, then hat's off to them i suppose. But its ok, cause "everyone was racist back then" so why should God, and his prophet be any different... they just wanted to fit in. "I dont WANT to be a polygamist, GOD MADE ME" he said as he wrote into the book of Morman that they should start practicing polygamy. Its really convenient, how things like this can get added later, when people realize that picking and choosing what you will continue to follow, and what you will no longer follow... doesnt make much sense as it pertains to religion. This would essentially be similar to saying "we believe in the bible... except Revelations... we dont believe in that book of it anymore" 11 men saw the plates? What religion do those men follow? Just curious? And where did the plates go? They evaporated into the Heavens i suppose. IDK if i received a relic from God and was going to base the entire religion I created based on that single relic, I dont think I would misplace it. Especially if I had a small army, it would be protected and looked after at all times. I wonder where it went tho. Not to mention, if someone can honestly go from "1 person?! i call bullshit" to "O shit, 11 people saw it?! fuck it must be true then" then power to them. And "he was martyred for his religious beliefs" sounds a lot better than any alternative reason for what happened. The fact that you dont see the inconvenient truths, just proves your dedication to your faith tho, which is admirable. We all need to believe in something, and you obviously believe what you believe for a reason. I wont bash/comment/whatever on your religion/religous beliefs anymore, as frankly, if you want to believe it and follow it, go right on believing and following. Just thought I would share some info with some people who were asking about it. Obviously I would never believe/follow it. And I used to have to go to a Mormon church 2-3times a month. You guys have a great sense of community tho, there are very very few groups that look out for eachother, and help eachother as it pertains to business success, even near to the level of the LDS organization. Great networking.
While dark skin being an indication of corruption is in the Book of Mormon, it's hardly core. It's about as central to Mormonism as Paul saying something along the lines of wife : husband :: husband : God is core to Christianity. It's in there, but a lot of stuff is in there and that's no more central than the rest. Incidentally, you're not right about black members not being allowed. They were allowed to be members, but they couldn't hold the priesthood until a revelation (some time in the 70's if I recall correctly).
"He was martyred for his religious beliefs" isn't just the most convenient explanation, it's what happened. I'm not much more in favor of Mormonism than you, but I don't think people should be killed for it. He was, not because he was convicted of something but because an armed mob came and killed him.
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On February 22 2014 09:58 nanook111 wrote:That line was talking about the Temple Ordinances not the Priesthood. The Priesthood is reserved for men(I don't know why). If you have any more questions I'm happy to help. You can find out more information about the Mormon Church at http://mormon.org/eng
Oh, sorry, I automatically equated "Temple Ordinance" with priesthood without knowing what it was. Thanks. What exactly is a temple ordinance? It seems from what I've read just to be a certain type of ceremony, including marriage and a certain type of baptism?
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On February 22 2014 10:25 WarSame wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2014 09:58 nanook111 wrote:On February 22 2014 09:36 WarSame wrote:http://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the-priesthood?lang=eng For declaration 2, how come it says that it allowed men and women to be priests? I read declaration 2 and it never mentioned anything about women, and the declaration clearly stressed it was only for men. That line was talking about the Temple Ordinances not the Priesthood. The Priesthood is reserved for men(I don't know why). If you have any more questions I'm happy to help. You can find out more information about the Mormon Church at http://mormon.org/eng Oh, sorry, I automatically equated "Temple Ordinance" with priesthood without knowing what it was. Thanks. What exactly is a temple ordinance? It seems from what I've read just to be a certain type of ceremony, including marriage and a certain type of baptism?
Not a problem happy to help. Temple Ordinances are performed for both the living and the dead. Temple ordinances are covenants that we make in our temples between ourselves and God which give us blessings and help us on our way to salvation and Eternal life. Temple Ordinances are a ceremony one of which is called a "Sealing" which is marriage for time and all eternity. We also perform these Ordinances for our deceased relatives through proxy in the temple such as baptism for the dead. this is a lesson about Temple ordinances that may be helpful. http://www.lds.org/manual/endowed-from-on-high-temple-preparation-seminar-teachers-manual/lesson-4-receiving-temple-ordinances-and-covenants?lang=eng&query=temple ordinances
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Can't stand religion threads on TL, yet I am drawn to them.
Crazy I know. Yes I have been for quite some time!
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Not so sure about the more than one wife thing because you know you have to provide more for them right and if you have kids... well shit, they can get pretty expensive.
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On February 22 2014 21:34 StarStruck wrote:
Not so sure about the more than one wife thing because you know you have to provide more for them right and if you have kids... well shit, they can get pretty expensive.
The Mormon Church no longer practices Polygamy.
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EPT
