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Hey guys,
this is a personal blog about eating habits, so it should be rather tedious to read for most people.
That being said, I'm currently planning on doing eight weeks of pure Paleo, just to see how it makes me feel.
Here's a list of 'raw' food I think I'm allowed to eat:
- nuts (no peanuts, no cashews or other legumes)
- chicken
- fruit
- vegetables
- water
- sweet potatoes (good luck finding those in Germany, btw.)
- eggs
- fish
What I understand not to be in keeping with Paleo:
- grains
- potatoes
- cows and pigs
- noodles
- rice
- dairy
- candy, chocolate, sugar in general
What I'm not clear on is alcohol. Obviously our ancestors didn't have it, but is it inherently anti Paleo?
My alcohol consumption is pretty moderate. I only drink about a bottle of Baileys a week in my morning coffee, two or three bottles of red wine and perhaps a pint of whisky, sometimes only half a pint. Do you think that's alright in keeping with Paleo?
Then there's working out.
How do you get enough protein to go to the gym regularly when doing Paleo?
I know that I usually feel the need to stuff my tummy with tons of pasta the day after.
That's it for now, but I'm sure I'll get back to you once more questions pop up.
 
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I'm not really familiar with Paleo, but getting enough protein to work out shouldn't be any problem, since it appears to be very somewhat close to a low carb diet, which naturally has quite a bunch of protein in it. If you eat a lot of chicken, egg, fish you should have no trouble with protein.
How do you get enough protein to go to the gym regularly when doing Paleo?
I know that I usually feel the need to stuff my tummy with tons of pasta the day after.
Pasta doesn't really have that much protein, but mostly carbs. Did you mean carbs? In that case I think potatoes, as you listed, should help you out with those. Although I don't understand why potatoes or sweet potatoes are part of Paleo? I always thought our ancestors didn't have them until they got eventually imported from America? Sounds interesting.
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I don't know why you wouldn't eat potatoes/cows/pigs/dairy?
The idea is to avoid food that the human body can't digest that well without it being heavily processed like grains and such generally don't have much nutritional content but they are easily mass produced (leading to agrarians taking over because having 10 poorly nourished dudes still beats 1 buff dude)
We evolved to eat cooked food and to digest dairy
you can technically live off milk and potatoes only so that's one example of how op they are.
if you're going to have alcohol you should avoid beer and grain based brews maybe you can drink cider and whiskey or something
also nuts/potatoes/dairy are all very calorie dense so it makes it a bit easier to stick to the diet without being hungry because fruit/veg is pretty low on calories and most people don't want to buy tons of meat
I like your description of 4 bottles and a pint of whiskey a week being moderate drinking
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Hyrule19023 Posts
You're allowed beef and pork, not sure where you're getting that part from. And dark chocolate is acceptable in small amounts occasionally, and I suggest indulging at least once a week so you don't go insane.
Anyway, alcohol is almost definitely not allowed...but most people tend to ignore it. Red wine in moderation is generally accepted. You should really only drink if it's a special occasion (birthday, anniversary, etc) though.
My alcohol consumption is pretty moderate. I only drink about a bottle of Baileys a week in my morning coffee, two or three bottles of red wine and perhaps a pint of whisky, sometimes only half a pint.
That isn't moderate. Moderate is 1 or 2 glasses of red wine per week, or maybe a beer with dinner. Not a shot or 3 at every meal.
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Beef and pork?
I thought you were only allowed to eat birds and fish and no domesticated animals.
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dunno whats the difference between hunting a buffalo or wild boar or eating a cow/pig like the diet should state you should have to hunt and kill your own food but lets be reasonable here
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On January 14 2014 23:37 SixStrings wrote:
Beef and pork?
I thought you were only allowed to eat birds and fish and no domesticated animals.
I think if you'd eat deer or wild boar (which is awesome as you probably know!) it would fit in with Paleo. And from there nutrition wise I don't think it's a big difference to beef or pork, but that's just a guess of mine.
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The evidence is mounting in this thread alone: Paleo is a ridiculous diet. If you want to hit the gym you should simply have a "normal" balanced diet with 2 g of protein per 1 kg body weight and high overall calories. But sure, if you have digestive problems or something go ahead and try new shit out and see what works for you.
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I'm hitting the gym already. Hard. I go thrice a week, 2+2+4 hours. I have a very good BMI, still my body-composition is shitty.
'Normal' diet doesn't do it for me anymore, I don't want to feel like a bloated piece of shit any longer.
So why wouldn't I try to pick one of the millions of diets out there?
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I'm not sure if I'd say Paleo is a bad thing to do. The whole ancestor/evolution aspect might seem a bit strange, but in the end you're still ditching a lot of shitty food and eat a bunch of good stuff in my opinion. An alternative might be keto. Paleo seems pretty close to that, no? Except for some foods.
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Hyrule19023 Posts
On January 14 2014 23:37 SixStrings wrote:
Beef and pork?
I thought you were only allowed to eat birds and fish and no domesticated animals.
Nononono paleo is about eating natural, not eating wild. There's a difference. And chickens and turkeys and the like are domesticated birds anyway. When you go buying meat, get organic meat, free range chickens, etc
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On January 15 2014 00:24 SixStrings wrote:
'Normal' diet doesn't do it for me anymore, I don't want to feel like a bloated piece of shit any longer.
So why wouldn't I try to pick one of the millions of diets out there?
Because a diet which says you can eat boar but not pig is just going to distract you from what you want to achieve instead of helping you.
Cutting back on sweets while drinking a bottle of Baileys, three bottles of red wine and a pint of whiskey every week is very backwards.
Coffee isn't paleo either, if you really need to know.
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In many cases, Paleo works out as an avoidance scheme, unless you want to eat like this indefinitely; you are going to have to eventually come back to normal food eating patterns and address your issues with them (alcohol seems like a big one). Those who have succeeded with Paleo in my experience are the sort who already have normal dieting down pat and are looking to do something more effective and intense for a short period. I'd suggest reconsidering.
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an important part of paleo diet i think to feel the full positive effect is to follow it 100% especially for gluten and diary.
It's pretty much an all or nothing sort of deal, no glutine at all, not even a crumb of bread when you're craving it.
It's like you are either pregnant 100% or not pregnant at all, you can't be 99% pregnant.
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Keto is so psychologically draining, you have to be hella motivated. I would always throw in some friendly potatoes :D.
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On January 15 2014 00:35 Darkwhite wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2014 00:24 SixStrings wrote:
'Normal' diet doesn't do it for me anymore, I don't want to feel like a bloated piece of shit any longer.
So why wouldn't I try to pick one of the millions of diets out there? Because a diet which says you can eat boar but not pig is just going to distract you from what you want to achieve instead of helping you. Cutting back on sweets while drinking a bottle of Baileys, three bottles of red wine and a pint of whiskey every week is very backwards. Coffee isn't paleo either, if you really need to know.
how is it backward? cutting back on sweet stuff is generally a good idea, cutting back on grain is generally a good idea, cutting back on alcohol is a good idea too but its better than nothing if you dont
i said you can eat boar but not pig as a joke, i think the origin of the diet isn;t important and just eating good food is
like i think keto involves not eating any fat? fat is pretty healthy actually as far as i know just in moderation (and not "saturated" fats right?)
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Why would you want to have a paleo diet? You could also think for yourself and simply eat healthy food. There's nothing wrong with grains, legumes, nuts, seeds, as long as you maintain a healthy balance of all your food.
On the topic of working out, you don't actually need additional protein to gain muscles, unless you are a monomaniacal about fitness and want the quickest gains possible. Any normal diet of around 40 to 50 (maybe 60) grams of protein per day should suffice for fitness. Personally I'd prefer being healthy and having a cheaper diet over slightly quicker muscle growth.
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On January 15 2014 01:13 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2014 00:35 Darkwhite wrote:On January 15 2014 00:24 SixStrings wrote:
'Normal' diet doesn't do it for me anymore, I don't want to feel like a bloated piece of shit any longer.
So why wouldn't I try to pick one of the millions of diets out there? Because a diet which says you can eat boar but not pig is just going to distract you from what you want to achieve instead of helping you. Cutting back on sweets while drinking a bottle of Baileys, three bottles of red wine and a pint of whiskey every week is very backwards. Coffee isn't paleo either, if you really need to know. how is it backward? cutting back on sweet stuff is generally a good idea, cutting back on grain is generally a good idea, cutting back on alcohol is a good idea too but its better than nothing if you dont i said you can eat boar but not pig as a joke, i think the origin of the diet isn;t important and just eating good food is like i think keto involves not eating any fat? fat is pretty healthy actually as far as i know just in moderation (and not "saturated" fats right?)
Keto actually involves a lot of fat, but ditches almost all the carbs. You can eat fried bacon if you wish, but you can't eat bread with it, for example.
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On January 15 2014 01:13 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2014 00:35 Darkwhite wrote:On January 15 2014 00:24 SixStrings wrote:
'Normal' diet doesn't do it for me anymore, I don't want to feel like a bloated piece of shit any longer.
So why wouldn't I try to pick one of the millions of diets out there? Because a diet which says you can eat boar but not pig is just going to distract you from what you want to achieve instead of helping you. Cutting back on sweets while drinking a bottle of Baileys, three bottles of red wine and a pint of whiskey every week is very backwards. Coffee isn't paleo either, if you really need to know. how is it backward? cutting back on sweet stuff is generally a good idea, cutting back on grain is generally a good idea, cutting back on alcohol is a good idea too but its better than nothing if you dont i said you can eat boar but not pig as a joke, i think the origin of the diet isn;t important and just eating good food is like i think keto involves not eating any fat? fat is pretty healthy actually as far as i know just in moderation (and not "saturated" fats right?)
Keto involves eating no carbohydrates and lots of fat and protein.
It is backwards because it takes focus away from what's important - avoiding tobacco and alcohol, calorie total, regular meals, hydration, regular and sufficient sleep, food allergies - and obsesses over irrelevant minutiae such as what sorts of nuts are yes-foods and no-foods.
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Afaik you're allowed to eat cows and pigs... I've been, my girlfriend has been, and her brother has been... and we've been doing Paleo on and off for like 2 years now.
We allow for the occasional alcoholic beverage while on Paleo, which I think is technically cheating but we're okay with that small cheat  We prefer wine over other alcoholic beverages when on Paleo.
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So from your description you drink a "moderate average" amount of 100mL of Baileys + 250mL of wine + 50mL of whisky a day and you wonder why "you feel bloated"? That's almost 500g of ethanol a week, which is WAY over the guidelines (~120g/week)
At least stop the Baileys, it's super processed, contains a lot of sugar and low quality fats.
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Hyrule19023 Posts
On January 15 2014 01:27 Darkwhite wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2014 01:13 Slayer91 wrote:On January 15 2014 00:35 Darkwhite wrote:On January 15 2014 00:24 SixStrings wrote:
'Normal' diet doesn't do it for me anymore, I don't want to feel like a bloated piece of shit any longer.
So why wouldn't I try to pick one of the millions of diets out there? Because a diet which says you can eat boar but not pig is just going to distract you from what you want to achieve instead of helping you. Cutting back on sweets while drinking a bottle of Baileys, three bottles of red wine and a pint of whiskey every week is very backwards. Coffee isn't paleo either, if you really need to know. how is it backward? cutting back on sweet stuff is generally a good idea, cutting back on grain is generally a good idea, cutting back on alcohol is a good idea too but its better than nothing if you dont i said you can eat boar but not pig as a joke, i think the origin of the diet isn;t important and just eating good food is like i think keto involves not eating any fat? fat is pretty healthy actually as far as i know just in moderation (and not "saturated" fats right?) Keto involves eating no carbohydrates and lots of fat and protein. It is backwards because it takes focus away from what's important - avoiding tobacco and alcohol, calorie total, regular meals, hydration, regular and sufficient sleep, food allergies - and obsesses over irrelevant minutiae such as what sorts of nuts are yes-foods and no-foods.
Actually, you don't seem to understand keto at all. There are specific points about tobacco, notes about alcohol (won't knock you out of ketosis but it doesn't do any good), caloric totals are important, regular meals are important, hydration is super important (since the body will retain a lot less water than people are used to), and sleep isn't ignored either. And if you read something about ignoring food allergies then your information source sucks. And the diet isn't a single set of instructions. It accounts for up to 150g of carbs per day, or as strict as 20g per day. The "irrelevant minutiae" are generally irrelevant minutiae for someone on a 100g intake, but for someone who has decided to go with 20g it's neither irrelevant nor minutiae.
tl;dr I think you read a single article by someone who doesn't like keto and have assumed that the author knew what he was talking about
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Wow I think you probably need to sort out your alcohol consumption before you bother with any other diet changes. A bottle of baileys a week in your morning coffee?
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On January 15 2014 02:00 tofucake wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2014 01:27 Darkwhite wrote:On January 15 2014 01:13 Slayer91 wrote:On January 15 2014 00:35 Darkwhite wrote:On January 15 2014 00:24 SixStrings wrote:
'Normal' diet doesn't do it for me anymore, I don't want to feel like a bloated piece of shit any longer.
So why wouldn't I try to pick one of the millions of diets out there? Because a diet which says you can eat boar but not pig is just going to distract you from what you want to achieve instead of helping you. Cutting back on sweets while drinking a bottle of Baileys, three bottles of red wine and a pint of whiskey every week is very backwards. Coffee isn't paleo either, if you really need to know. how is it backward? cutting back on sweet stuff is generally a good idea, cutting back on grain is generally a good idea, cutting back on alcohol is a good idea too but its better than nothing if you dont i said you can eat boar but not pig as a joke, i think the origin of the diet isn;t important and just eating good food is like i think keto involves not eating any fat? fat is pretty healthy actually as far as i know just in moderation (and not "saturated" fats right?) Keto involves eating no carbohydrates and lots of fat and protein. It is backwards because it takes focus away from what's important - avoiding tobacco and alcohol, calorie total, regular meals, hydration, regular and sufficient sleep, food allergies - and obsesses over irrelevant minutiae such as what sorts of nuts are yes-foods and no-foods. Actually, you don't seem to understand keto at all. There are specific points about tobacco, notes about alcohol (won't knock you out of ketosis but it doesn't do any good), caloric totals are important, regular meals are important, hydration is super important (since the body will retain a lot less water than people are used to), and sleep isn't ignored either. And if you read something about ignoring food allergies then your information source sucks. And the diet isn't a single set of instructions. It accounts for up to 150g of carbs per day, or as strict as 20g per day. The "irrelevant minutiae" are generally irrelevant minutiae for someone on a 100g intake, but for someone who has decided to go with 20g it's neither irrelevant nor minutiae. tl;dr I think you read a single article by someone who doesn't like keto and have assumed that the author knew what he was talking about
My second paragraph isn't about keto, it is about paleo (specifically the blogger's interpretation of it), which is what the topic is about as well.
tl:dr I think you didn't read my post in context of the post I replied to and made a fool of yourself.
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I feel like you guys focus quite a bit on the drinking part.
I also drink about two liters of water each day.
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Well ok then lets not talk about the drinking.
On January 14 2014 23:03 SixStrings wrote:
How do you get enough protein to go to the gym regularly when doing Paleo?
I know that I usually feel the need to stuff my tummy with tons of pasta the day after.
This pasta binging is due to you using up all your glycogen (stored carbs in muscle and liver) during your (insane and stupid) 2+2+4hr workouts. Not because of a lack of protein.
This brings us to your gym program, which appears to be shit because no one "goes hard" for that long except Arnold. And you're not Arnold. Get a program that focuses on squats, deads, bench press and chins. You can add in dips, OHP and maybe a set of abs if you want, but keep it simple. You should be in and out of the gym in an hour. Good luck
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While it is certainly healthier to keep water intake up alongside an alcohol habit, the rate at which you are drinking is, given what you've provided, a huge obstacle in the path of any diets success. You ought to think of the body as complex system with a general capacity for "activity"; this activity can take the form of digestion, muscle breakdown/growth, respiration, metabolism, etc. A diet is a "push" that encourages the body to change its processes, usually towards some sort of goal like fat loss. Alcohol consumption as you've described it, the most noteworthy thing being that you consume it throughout the day, is a huge stressor and limiting factor insofar as your body's capacity for process change is concerned. What I'm getting at is that you are telling your body to focus on alcohol metabolism with the things you drink when what you'd want, presumably, is to tell your body to start shedding some of that pesky stomach/leg fat. No amount of keto is going to overcome this daily reliance on alcohol, not in a healthy way at least, and in fact may worsen your overall condition in that keto leaves the body somewhat more vulnerable to particular types of exogenous stress (alcohol metabolism). Figure out your priorities (some people just want to drink) then try a regular diet first; only after you find success with something more conventional should you consider a keto diet.
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My parents go through over a bottle of wine a day, I guess that's bad? My mother's apparent alcoholism is one of the reasons I rarely drink myself.
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On January 15 2014 02:27 Jh wrote:Well ok then lets not talk about the drinking. Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 23:03 SixStrings wrote:
How do you get enough protein to go to the gym regularly when doing Paleo?
I know that I usually feel the need to stuff my tummy with tons of pasta the day after. This pasta binging is due to you using up all your glycogen (stored carbs in muscle and liver) during your (insane and stupid) 2+2+4hr workouts. Not because of a lack of protein. This brings us to your gym program, which appears to be shit because no one "goes hard" for that long except Arnold. And you're not Arnold. Get a program that focuses on squats, deads, bench press and chins. You can add in dips, OHP and maybe a set of abs if you want, but keep it simple. You should be in and out of the gym in an hour. Good luck
That's a misunderstanding, I do 10 hours, not 30 hours a week. Two on one Tuesdays, two on Thursdays and four on Saturdays.
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Hyrule19023 Posts
On January 15 2014 02:16 Darkwhite wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2014 02:00 tofucake wrote:On January 15 2014 01:27 Darkwhite wrote:On January 15 2014 01:13 Slayer91 wrote:On January 15 2014 00:35 Darkwhite wrote:On January 15 2014 00:24 SixStrings wrote:
'Normal' diet doesn't do it for me anymore, I don't want to feel like a bloated piece of shit any longer.
So why wouldn't I try to pick one of the millions of diets out there? Because a diet which says you can eat boar but not pig is just going to distract you from what you want to achieve instead of helping you. Cutting back on sweets while drinking a bottle of Baileys, three bottles of red wine and a pint of whiskey every week is very backwards. Coffee isn't paleo either, if you really need to know. how is it backward? cutting back on sweet stuff is generally a good idea, cutting back on grain is generally a good idea, cutting back on alcohol is a good idea too but its better than nothing if you dont i said you can eat boar but not pig as a joke, i think the origin of the diet isn;t important and just eating good food is like i think keto involves not eating any fat? fat is pretty healthy actually as far as i know just in moderation (and not "saturated" fats right?) Keto involves eating no carbohydrates and lots of fat and protein. It is backwards because it takes focus away from what's important - avoiding tobacco and alcohol, calorie total, regular meals, hydration, regular and sufficient sleep, food allergies - and obsesses over irrelevant minutiae such as what sorts of nuts are yes-foods and no-foods. Actually, you don't seem to understand keto at all. There are specific points about tobacco, notes about alcohol (won't knock you out of ketosis but it doesn't do any good), caloric totals are important, regular meals are important, hydration is super important (since the body will retain a lot less water than people are used to), and sleep isn't ignored either. And if you read something about ignoring food allergies then your information source sucks. And the diet isn't a single set of instructions. It accounts for up to 150g of carbs per day, or as strict as 20g per day. The "irrelevant minutiae" are generally irrelevant minutiae for someone on a 100g intake, but for someone who has decided to go with 20g it's neither irrelevant nor minutiae. tl;dr I think you read a single article by someone who doesn't like keto and have assumed that the author knew what he was talking about My second paragraph isn't about keto, it is about paleo (specifically the blogger's interpretation of it), which is what the topic is about as well. tl:dr I think you didn't read my post in context of the post I replied to and made a fool of yourself.
The way it's worded led me to believe you were still talking about keto
Regardless, paleo is similar in that there are different levels of strictness, and "irrelevenat minutiae" aren't always that. Water intake is also not as unimportant as you make it seem. Paleo does favor "eat until full" rather than counting calories though.
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On January 15 2014 02:36 SixStrings wrote:
That's a misunderstanding, I do 10 hours, not 30 hours a week. Two on one Tuesdays, two on Thursdays and four on Saturdays.
I understood you. But four hours at the gym in one go? Lifting heavy? Mad. I spend 3 hours/week at the gym. It's plenty for making strength gains. And I'm on a cut at the moment!
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On January 15 2014 02:41 tofucake wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2014 02:16 Darkwhite wrote:On January 15 2014 02:00 tofucake wrote:On January 15 2014 01:27 Darkwhite wrote:On January 15 2014 01:13 Slayer91 wrote:On January 15 2014 00:35 Darkwhite wrote:On January 15 2014 00:24 SixStrings wrote:
'Normal' diet doesn't do it for me anymore, I don't want to feel like a bloated piece of shit any longer.
So why wouldn't I try to pick one of the millions of diets out there? Because a diet which says you can eat boar but not pig is just going to distract you from what you want to achieve instead of helping you. Cutting back on sweets while drinking a bottle of Baileys, three bottles of red wine and a pint of whiskey every week is very backwards. Coffee isn't paleo either, if you really need to know. how is it backward? cutting back on sweet stuff is generally a good idea, cutting back on grain is generally a good idea, cutting back on alcohol is a good idea too but its better than nothing if you dont i said you can eat boar but not pig as a joke, i think the origin of the diet isn;t important and just eating good food is like i think keto involves not eating any fat? fat is pretty healthy actually as far as i know just in moderation (and not "saturated" fats right?) Keto involves eating no carbohydrates and lots of fat and protein. It is backwards because it takes focus away from what's important - avoiding tobacco and alcohol, calorie total, regular meals, hydration, regular and sufficient sleep, food allergies - and obsesses over irrelevant minutiae such as what sorts of nuts are yes-foods and no-foods. Actually, you don't seem to understand keto at all. There are specific points about tobacco, notes about alcohol (won't knock you out of ketosis but it doesn't do any good), caloric totals are important, regular meals are important, hydration is super important (since the body will retain a lot less water than people are used to), and sleep isn't ignored either. And if you read something about ignoring food allergies then your information source sucks. And the diet isn't a single set of instructions. It accounts for up to 150g of carbs per day, or as strict as 20g per day. The "irrelevant minutiae" are generally irrelevant minutiae for someone on a 100g intake, but for someone who has decided to go with 20g it's neither irrelevant nor minutiae. tl;dr I think you read a single article by someone who doesn't like keto and have assumed that the author knew what he was talking about My second paragraph isn't about keto, it is about paleo (specifically the blogger's interpretation of it), which is what the topic is about as well. tl:dr I think you didn't read my post in context of the post I replied to and made a fool of yourself. The way it's worded led me to believe you were still talking about keto Regardless, paleo is similar in that there are different levels of strictness, and "irrelevenat minutiae" aren't always that. Water intake is also not as unimportant as you make it seem. Paleo does favor "eat until full" rather than counting calories though.
The way it was worded misled you, there was no fault in your reading of it.
Just like how listing hydration under what's important misled you to think I made it seem unimportant.
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Why does anyone think that picking a list of dietary requirements based on some mix of observation, dietary knowledge and vague handvawing about stone age is going to do him any good? The whole approach "this is allowed and this not" is absurd beyond comprehension. You should get familier with the diet and try to understand whether it has positive effects on people and which parts of the approach are the core of these effects and then pick those and think how you could naturally incorporate them into your existing habits. Turning your whole eating habits upside down overnight according to a list somebody slapped together using questionable assuptions will almost certainly not lead to a long-term positive effect, because you will probably never come back to it even if you endure your planned 8-week period.
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What appealed to me was the intuitive sense the diet makes and the simple distinction between things you're supposed to eat and things you're not.
There's so much (mis)information about that one would have to spend ages to make informed decisions about nutrition, so I yearned for some simplicity.
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On January 15 2014 02:42 Jh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2014 02:36 SixStrings wrote:
That's a misunderstanding, I do 10 hours, not 30 hours a week. Two on one Tuesdays, two on Thursdays and four on Saturdays. I understood you. But four hours at the gym in one go? Lifting heavy? Mad. I spend 3 hours/week at the gym. It's plenty for making strength gains. And I'm on a cut at the moment!
I may just be taking longer breaks than you do. I take 90 seconds between body weight sets, 120 seconds between weight lifting ones and 60 seconds between exercises, so I really have more breaks than actual workout.
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On January 15 2014 03:04 SixStrings wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2014 02:42 Jh wrote:On January 15 2014 02:36 SixStrings wrote:
That's a misunderstanding, I do 10 hours, not 30 hours a week. Two on one Tuesdays, two on Thursdays and four on Saturdays. I understood you. But four hours at the gym in one go? Lifting heavy? Mad. I spend 3 hours/week at the gym. It's plenty for making strength gains. And I'm on a cut at the moment! I may just be taking longer breaks than you do. I take 90 seconds between body weight sets, 120 seconds between weight lifting ones and 60 seconds between exercises, so I really have more breaks than actual workout.
It's still way too much no matter what your goal is. Have you come up with your gym program yourself or have you looked it up online or something? Maybe consider consulting a trainer for a couple of sessions? I don't mean to sound condescending but I'm astounded at your 10 h a week. Especially the 4 h session.
Your breaks are pretty standard afaik.
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On January 15 2014 03:00 SixStrings wrote:
What appealed to me was the intuitive sense the diet makes and the simple distinction between things you're supposed to eat and things you're not.
There's so much (mis)information about that one would have to spend ages to make informed decisions about nutrition, so I yearned for some simplicity.
What misinformation?
If you want to eat in healthy fashion, just follow these rules:
avoid sugary, salty, fatty processed foods
eat lots of vegetables, including raw&green vegetables (especially leaf&cabbage-type)
don't eat too much in one go
eat foods that are hard to digest such as dairy, grains, legumes in moderation
(and otherwise just follow common advice)
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On January 14 2014 23:03 SixStrings wrote:
- sweet potatoes (good luck finding those in Germany, btw.)
Rewe has them here from time to time
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On January 15 2014 03:17 d00p wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2014 03:04 SixStrings wrote:On January 15 2014 02:42 Jh wrote:On January 15 2014 02:36 SixStrings wrote:
That's a misunderstanding, I do 10 hours, not 30 hours a week. Two on one Tuesdays, two on Thursdays and four on Saturdays. I understood you. But four hours at the gym in one go? Lifting heavy? Mad. I spend 3 hours/week at the gym. It's plenty for making strength gains. And I'm on a cut at the moment! I may just be taking longer breaks than you do. I take 90 seconds between body weight sets, 120 seconds between weight lifting ones and 60 seconds between exercises, so I really have more breaks than actual workout. It's still way too much no matter what your goal is. Have you come up with your gym program yourself or have you looked it up online or something? Maybe consider consulting a trainer for a couple of sessions? I don't mean to sound condescending but I'm astounded at your 10 h a week. Especially the 4 h session. Your breaks are pretty standard afaik.
Way too much?
I'm surprised by this, I really thought that I'm on the lower side of working out hours.
Don't lean guys do that as a half-time job?
Even after doing two hours at the gym I don't feel like I have done all the stuff I should have done...
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On January 15 2014 04:16 SixStrings wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2014 03:17 d00p wrote:On January 15 2014 03:04 SixStrings wrote:On January 15 2014 02:42 Jh wrote:On January 15 2014 02:36 SixStrings wrote:
That's a misunderstanding, I do 10 hours, not 30 hours a week. Two on one Tuesdays, two on Thursdays and four on Saturdays. I understood you. But four hours at the gym in one go? Lifting heavy? Mad. I spend 3 hours/week at the gym. It's plenty for making strength gains. And I'm on a cut at the moment! I may just be taking longer breaks than you do. I take 90 seconds between body weight sets, 120 seconds between weight lifting ones and 60 seconds between exercises, so I really have more breaks than actual workout. It's still way too much no matter what your goal is. Have you come up with your gym program yourself or have you looked it up online or something? Maybe consider consulting a trainer for a couple of sessions? I don't mean to sound condescending but I'm astounded at your 10 h a week. Especially the 4 h session. Your breaks are pretty standard afaik. Way too much? I'm surprised by this, I really thought that I'm on the lower side of working out hours. Don't lean guys do that as a half-time job? Even after doing two hours at the gym I don't feel like I have done all the stuff I should have done...
If you're doing full body workouts, via compound movement free weights, then you will have your entire body worked out in an hour, often less when you start off.
If you're doing isolation movements you have to spend far longer in the gym because it takes longer to hit the same amount of muscles that compound movements hit, and you have to work out more days a week usually.
Have a look at something like Stronglifts 5x5 or similar for a workout program (website is turrible though, just turrible, but the information is generally correct). Basically you want to be doing compound movement free weights (e.g. bench press, squats, deadlift, overhead press, pullup/chinups, some form of rows (bent over rows or w/e), any big compound movements that target numerous muscle groups at once.
For example, in squats you're focusing all of your upper leg muscles but you use a lot of stabilizing muscles to do a squat, which means that pretty much every muscle in your body is seeing some action. Bench press does arms and chest but uses upper back and core for stabilizing, deadlift does your back and legs but uses your arms and core as well, and so on.
EDIT
Also as far as consulting trainers go, it's very hit and miss. Some don't know what they're doing.
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There is so much to analyze in this thread. It's not fair that I'm fat. There must be one easy trick to rock hard abs. It was that one pistachio-mango cannoli that ruined me, not that my diet is awful by orders of magnitude. Don't tell me that there are generalities to follow. You have to tell me what are the GOOD foods and what are the BAD foods. And I will hold it against you if you tell me something is good and I just cram my face with it.
On January 15 2014 04:16 SixStrings wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2014 03:17 d00p wrote:On January 15 2014 03:04 SixStrings wrote:On January 15 2014 02:42 Jh wrote:On January 15 2014 02:36 SixStrings wrote:
That's a misunderstanding, I do 10 hours, not 30 hours a week. Two on one Tuesdays, two on Thursdays and four on Saturdays. I understood you. But four hours at the gym in one go? Lifting heavy? Mad. I spend 3 hours/week at the gym. It's plenty for making strength gains. And I'm on a cut at the moment! I may just be taking longer breaks than you do. I take 90 seconds between body weight sets, 120 seconds between weight lifting ones and 60 seconds between exercises, so I really have more breaks than actual workout. It's still way too much no matter what your goal is. Have you come up with your gym program yourself or have you looked it up online or something? Maybe consider consulting a trainer for a couple of sessions? I don't mean to sound condescending but I'm astounded at your 10 h a week. Especially the 4 h session. Your breaks are pretty standard afaik. Way too much? I'm surprised by this, I really thought that I'm on the lower side of working out hours. Don't lean guys do that as a half-time job? Even after doing two hours at the gym I don't feel like I have done all the stuff I should have done...
Go to your room.
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On January 15 2014 04:16 SixStrings wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2014 03:17 d00p wrote:On January 15 2014 03:04 SixStrings wrote:On January 15 2014 02:42 Jh wrote:On January 15 2014 02:36 SixStrings wrote:
That's a misunderstanding, I do 10 hours, not 30 hours a week. Two on one Tuesdays, two on Thursdays and four on Saturdays. I understood you. But four hours at the gym in one go? Lifting heavy? Mad. I spend 3 hours/week at the gym. It's plenty for making strength gains. And I'm on a cut at the moment! I may just be taking longer breaks than you do. I take 90 seconds between body weight sets, 120 seconds between weight lifting ones and 60 seconds between exercises, so I really have more breaks than actual workout. It's still way too much no matter what your goal is. Have you come up with your gym program yourself or have you looked it up online or something? Maybe consider consulting a trainer for a couple of sessions? I don't mean to sound condescending but I'm astounded at your 10 h a week. Especially the 4 h session. Your breaks are pretty standard afaik. Way too much? I'm surprised by this, I really thought that I'm on the lower side of working out hours. Don't lean guys do that as a half-time job? Even after doing two hours at the gym I don't feel like I have done all the stuff I should have done...
Strength training should take about 1 hour, 2 hours is pushing it. If you are including skill work then it can take longer. When you are first starting and don't have to do as many warmup sets/moving plates around it will take easily less than an hour.
I don't know what workout program you are following, but a good program for beginners, any essentially everyone in in TL Health & Fitness agrees, is Stronglifts 5x5 or Starting Strength. What program are you following now/why are you following it? Or is it something you just picked out at random? I'd be happy to go into more detail but I don't want it to fall on deaf ears.
As for the diet, someone else make a simple list of principles above that you should follow: Avoid processed foods and focus on fresh vegetables and meats.
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Hyrule19023 Posts
On January 15 2014 06:57 Jerubaal wrote:There is so much to analyze in this thread. It's not fair that I'm fat. There must be one easy trick to rock hard abs. It was that one pistachio-mango cannoli that ruined me, not that my diet is awful by orders of magnitude. Don't tell me that there are generalities to follow. You have to tell me what are the GOOD foods and what are the BAD foods. And I will hold it against you if you tell me something is good and I just cram my face with it. Show nested quote +On January 15 2014 04:16 SixStrings wrote:On January 15 2014 03:17 d00p wrote:On January 15 2014 03:04 SixStrings wrote:On January 15 2014 02:42 Jh wrote:On January 15 2014 02:36 SixStrings wrote:
That's a misunderstanding, I do 10 hours, not 30 hours a week. Two on one Tuesdays, two on Thursdays and four on Saturdays. I understood you. But four hours at the gym in one go? Lifting heavy? Mad. I spend 3 hours/week at the gym. It's plenty for making strength gains. And I'm on a cut at the moment! I may just be taking longer breaks than you do. I take 90 seconds between body weight sets, 120 seconds between weight lifting ones and 60 seconds between exercises, so I really have more breaks than actual workout. It's still way too much no matter what your goal is. Have you come up with your gym program yourself or have you looked it up online or something? Maybe consider consulting a trainer for a couple of sessions? I don't mean to sound condescending but I'm astounded at your 10 h a week. Especially the 4 h session. Your breaks are pretty standard afaik. Way too much? I'm surprised by this, I really thought that I'm on the lower side of working out hours. Don't lean guys do that as a half-time job? Even after doing two hours at the gym I don't feel like I have done all the stuff I should have done... Go to your room.
There is one easy trick to rock hard abs: you already have them. Everyone does. Just cut to 8% bf and they will stand out great!
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Wait... you're serious....How many exercises are you doing? And are you including running on treadmill time, etc?
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Of course.
First I do cycling for 15 minutes, stretching for five, going from moderate to fast, to moderate, then I do dips alternating with reverse situps because they use the same rack, then, vertical row with weights, then chin-ups, then leg-press, then back extension, by that time I usually feel rather cool again, so I do some form of cardio for ten an stretching for five, then comes the bench pressing which takes at least 20 minutes, then pullups alternating with crunches. Then dips again, because I like them, then go home. That easily kills two hours.
I'm not supposed to do deadlifts or squats yet, because my trainer reckons my calf-muscles are shortened, which ruins my posture and puts too much strain on my back.
I'm not a fitness guy, I just do what the trainer tells me and use whatever information I get from TL Health and Fitness.
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Ditch the trainer and do Starting Strength. Your current program is a lot of nothing to make you feel good about going to the gym. To build muscle and strength you need progressive overload achieved by either increased weights or decreased leverage in bodyweight movements (planche, front/back lever etc).
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On January 15 2014 08:03 Najda wrote:
Your current program is a lot of nothing to make you feel good about going to the gym.
And now you've taken even that from me. 
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Yeah, I'm wondering what it is exactly about that program that's supposed to get your calf-muscles un-shortened. You might ask Eshlow about that though. I don't nothing, 'bout nothing, but isn't the usual cause of a shortened muscle is weakness in the antagonistic muscle?
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I'm just supposed to stretch them after cardio.
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I'm quite sure you can deadlift even if you can't bend your ankles, that PT is a moron
apropiate stretching in a few sessions should be enough to achieve squat flexibility (unless you are a clueless trainer and can't really coach people properly)
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Hyrule19023 Posts
Even 5 minutes of stretching can greatly improve your mobility.
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http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?s=paleo
Here's a few articles on the Paleo diet from doctors. Take a look through the articles and read the comments as well as many of them are doctors specializing in different things, so its good to see different perspectives. As far as suggestions go, Grumbels has given you by far the best advice.
I'm not certain on the training part, but I definitely know that over-training can be a big issue too.
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On January 15 2014 09:39 renoB wrote:http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?s=paleoHere's a few articles on the Paleo diet from doctors. Take a look through the articles and read the comments as well as many of them are doctors specializing in different things, so its good to see different perspectives. As far as suggestions go, Grumbels has given you by far the best advice. I'm not certain on the training part, but I definitely know that over-training can be a big issue too.
Overtraining is largely a myth
You need to be brutally strong or conditioned to push yourself into "overtraining", and usually in a calorically restriced diet over a long period of time
Paleo is a very good base for nutrition, but most people find the need to add grains (or other carbs) to build muscle
Eating meats, eggs, veggies and fruit should be the staple of your diet.
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On January 15 2014 09:39 renoB wrote:http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?s=paleoHere's a few articles on the Paleo diet from doctors. Take a look through the articles and read the comments as well as many of them are doctors specializing in different things, so its good to see different perspectives. As far as suggestions go, Grumbels has given you by far the best advice. I'm not certain on the training part, but I definitely know that over-training can be a big issue too.
Yeah, those doctors have hit upon an excellent rhetorical strategy: "If I just interpret this in the most ass-backwards, cart-before-the-horse way, it's easy to attack."
I mean let's not dwell on whether a processed-free and carb-free diet is healthy. Let's just obsess endlessly over the narrative of the rationale. Gee, I bet Neanderthals ate 3 day old dead caribou- should I eat that?
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Jesus, those numbers sure are intimidating.
Here's what I'm going to do:
1. Try to replace the wine with water, reverse Jesus style. Only buy one bottle of wine a week
2. Only spice up my morning coffee with Baileys on the days I have to teach (effectively cutting that in half, too)
3. Try to 'forget' my flask at home at least twice a week
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You got some serious issue if you have to spice up your morning coffee with an alcoholic beverage...
I love getting drunk myself and it's the main reason why i can't get my weight these last 10kg's down (once there were about 30kg too much, so i'm still more than happy now)... But seriously... Starting your day by spicing up your coffee with alcohol shouts alcoholic like nothing else ever could...
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I've been mostly-paleo since the beginning of November, lost 20 lbs from 180 to 160 (I'm 5'7).
Lots of bacon, lots of eggs, lots of chicken, lots of vegetables and an apple here or there. I would cheat and eat bread and shit two days a week. Lots of water, no sugary drinks.
Unless you're going ketogenic (which relies hard on no carbs and lots of fat) you'll lose weight and be healthier just prioritizing eating REAL food as often as possible instead of bread and pasta and shit.
EDIT: Also yeah, chill the fuck out with the Bailey's. I don't think you understand how much of a difference it makes to put cream and sugar in your coffee compared to just drinking water. Burning fat is all about momentum, and a couple hundred grams of sugar and carbs a day throws the emergency break on it.
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I will chill out with that, I wasn't aware of those frightening numbers of calories.
How do people drink twenty pints of beer a week and still stay in shape?
So many fit dudes I know drink at least 15 pints per weekend...
My weed guy will thank his lucky stars for the day TL lectured me about my alcohol consumption...
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On January 15 2014 21:39 SixStrings wrote:
I will chill out with that, I wasn't aware of those frightening numbers of calories.
How do people drink twenty pints of beer a week and still stay in shape?
So many fit dudes I know drink at least 15 pints per weekend...
My weed guy will thank his lucky stars for the day TL lectured me about my alcohol consumption...
They probably burn a lot of calories you don't realize they do with their lifestyles. You can eat like 7000 calories a day on a crab boat and still lose weight.
Young labourers in general are going to be fit as fuck young men. Then they turn 30 and the beer gut starts to accumulate.
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EPT
