I think the sort of discrimination you are talking about Nyovne, while understandable, and pretty reasonable based on what you've said, can be really harmful. Oftentimes, it is shown that when there is a societal discrimination against a certain group or race, such as Somalians, despite it being justified or not, it can cause that group to discriminate themselves and assume that, given they are Somalian, there is an inevitability that they will be harmful to society.

So, while it is admirable that you try not to discriminate on an individual level, the discrimination that you try to justify can be counter-productive to what you want, which is presumably that these groups you state stop being a negative influence on society.
(sorry that this post is pretty rambly and difficult to understand x.x)

ninazerg

United States7291 Posts

January 07 2014 16:42 GMT

#23

I hate you! You wrote some text pixels that my eyeballs were able to catch the refraction of and my brain interpreted as something negative, and I associated it with villainy because I can't physically see you, so I always attach text to a generalized idea, and I would go so far as to guess you are probably a person of ill-regard based on the fact that I have already decided that I do not like you, and therefore, you appear as some disgusting degenerate in the most extreme end of my imagination, who lives behind some invisible line that was declared to exist by some guys in powdered wigs 400 years ago in some sort of structure made of bricks among other structures of similar composition clustered together and inhabited by individuals of similar disposition to yourself, and their conduct reflects the depravity I have presumed to exist in your living environment, so I would recommend, nay, command that you engage in a vague activity that is meant to insult you although it is simply a bastardized term that can be used as a verb, noun, adjective that has to do with engaging sexual activity, and I'm directing you to direct this activity at your own self.

hypercube

Hungary2735 Posts

January 07 2014 17:56 GMT

#24

On January 07 2014 19:55 Omnishroud wrote:

Your view practically mirrors my own. You simply state that you dislike X Y Z as a group but when put in front of an individual from that group, you reserve judgement until they show the qualities/beliefs/whathaveyou that you do in fact discriminate against. (or don't)

The problem is most people can't actually do this, even if they claim they can. Ultimately they are more likely to avoid members of those groups even before they get to know them.

Maybe you and Nyvone are exceptions.

AnachronisticAnarchy

United States2957 Posts

January 07 2014 18:38 GMT

#25

Reading this thread and the responses made me realize there's a very large difference between disliking a certain demographic and blanket disliking all individuals from that demographic. Quite an enlightening experience, especially when I started exploring the various nuances and permutations of the issue.

Chocolate

United States2350 Posts

January 07 2014 19:20 GMT

#26

Discrimination is a fundamental part of humanity We are innately pattern-finding. The ability that allows us to see a berry and determine by sight if it is edible or see a new species of tree but still understand it as a tree is the same ability that causes us to think "this person has a certain skin color and is wearing certain clothes, and people with similar skin and clothes have done X in my experience."

That is not to say that discrimination is good or excusable, but rather understandable. There is a kind of lazy logic with discrimination: if 99% (a conveniently high and unrealistic percentage, ofc) of a population has an undesirable characteristic or value to you, you probably aren't going to give them all the benefit of the doubt just in case you run into that 1% that you agree with.

I will be honest and say that I tend to discriminate against certain groups (though it is more along the lines of caution -> see how the person is as an individual, then react based on that) in my mind. We all discriminate, though, whether we admit it or not, because our experiences with people with identifiable characteristics molds our understanding of other people with those characteristics because we find patterns in EVERYTHING. We learn through experiences, and quite honestly you would probably be considered disabled if you had a hard time doing that in general, but there is a fine line between "this person is a gypsy, better be on guard" and "this person is a gypsy, I 100% believe he/she is scamming me."

I will say, though, that is does make sense to discriminate based on ideological grounds, since people can choose that for themselves. By discrimination I assume we mean mostly association/assumptions and not persecution, by the way. If someone tells me that they are a fundamentalist (or whatever euphemism for it) Christian I will assume that the person has a specific set of beliefs such as young-Earth creationism, anti-LGBT, pro-life, and very high chance of being politically conservative. Likewise, I assume that a self-professed communist will not be religious, and I assume that vegans who consider themselves feminists are probably politically liberal.

Omnishroud

1073 Posts

January 08 2014 01:30 GMT

#27

On January 08 2014 02:56 hypercube wrote:

Show nested quote +

You're right and your post made me realize its pretty hypocritical of me to say. However as many have said discrimination and stereotyping is a very big part of how we work. I never look at somebody and think "Oh he's a black young male, he definitely wants to rob me, he's definitely a gangsta" but i do intentionally try to avoid them. I think there's a difference in that, although both are definitely discrimination.

I don't think this is me judging them as individuals, or being downright discriminatory towards the individual though, i believe its more taking precautions against the expectations, not acting on the assumptions, wouldn't you agree? I know i do actively avoid my example groups but act indifferent once in converse / contact with them until i get a feel of their individual character.

My OP was more referring to the instant discrimination of an individual based on an evident feature before interacting with somebody, i don't consider avoiding them doing that, although it depends what lengths you go to avoid them i suppose.

All in all, its a huge gray area and i am definitely being hypocritical but my main gripe isn't with average discriminatory practice (such as what i do) but the extreme cases which can be best described as pure indiscriminate hatred of a group. Im sorry but there is no way you can rationally hate somebody just because they're a different skin color or fuck the same sex (etc etc).

Im sure at the end of the day, everyone will agree this sort of extreme discrimination that comes from hatred needs to stop.

TL;DR - I wanted to rant in my OP about nasty forms of discrimination, as a whole, its a huge gray area and i am a hypocrite. Regardless the extreme cases are really disgusting forms that are without basis or legitimate reason and need to stop.

My goal was to discuss these extreme cases.

Mothra

United States1448 Posts

January 08 2014 02:23 GMT

#28

Discrimination in its literal meaning is to discern differences and used to have a positive connotation (discriminating taste or judgement). It's interesting how it's been flipped around to mean it's opposite now. It's supposed to refer to one who can objectively discern good from bad, but now it means one is so blinded that they cannot see good even when it's right in front of them.

Of course belief founded on hatred is bad. Same with ignorance. So you can combat discrimination by being compassionate and gaining/reflecting upon experience. It's simple yet difficult.

nunez

Norway4003 Posts

January 08 2014 04:13 GMT

#29

On January 08 2014 03:38 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
Reading this thread and the responses made me realize there's a very large difference between disliking a certain demographic and blanket disliking all individuals from that demographic. Quite an enlightening experience, especially when I started exploring the various nuances and permutations of the issue.

listen smarty pants, i don't just look at someone and go "oh he's a middle-eastern man, he has a mindset straight out of the dark ages" or look at someone else and go "oh there's a colombian, i wonder how many people he killed for breakfast". i mean clearly i would, but i just make sure to avoid them ya dum dum.