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Hello TL.
I wouldn't normally post something like this, but if I'm so scared to be judged by strangers over the internet then how can I ever expect to get over my fear of being judged by strangers in real life?
So in the spirit of self-improvement, I'd like to write a bit about myself and then seek some advice from you fine human beings. I apologize in advance to those that are going to attempt to wade through this post. I'm not a very good writer.
As I'm sure none of you know, I'm a 22 year old guy living in southern California. I've had issues with depression and anxiety since high school. I don't have any friends. I suspect there's a cause-effect relationship at work between those two facts, but I'm not sure which way it runs.
My issues got progressively worse after graduating from high school. It started to have a serious adverse effect on my academic performance. About a year and a half ago I was kicked out of college. Needless to say, this precipitated serious changes in my life.
Well, things are a lot better now. In most ways.
I'm taking classes at a community college, and according to the counselor I talked to there shouldn't be any difficulty for me to get accepted into a university again. If I'm feeling ambitious, I could probably even get into a better school than I was attending before.
I've got a job for only the second time in my life. It's just a part-time customer service job, but it's better than spending all my time at home on the computer and it'll help me become at least a little more self-sufficient.
I don't hate myself like I did before. I'd still rather be someone else, but I can channel that desire productively - most of the time.
In terms of physical fitness, I feel like I'm at least on the right track. My diet is healthier than it's ever been in my life. I've been working out almost daily for a few weeks now. I know that's not much, but hey, you've gotta start somewhere, right?
Socially, I don't feel like I'm going anywhere. I've been trying to be more active. I joined a club for the first time in my life, and I'm really trying to behave like less of a sullen introvert. I suspect I've spent more time talking to people in the past 2 months than I did in the entirety of my ~2 years at the university. Really, though, that's not saying much at all, and I want more.
Someone posted this picture on Facebook earlier.
+ Show Spoiler +
Is that the answer? To make friends, I have to learn to be happy without having friends? If that's the case, I don't consider the outlook to be altogether hopeful. I find it very difficult to be happy with my life for any length of time when I'm constantly reminded of what I'm lacking. No matter where I go, or what I do, I am reminded - by my surroundings, by the things I read, and if nothing else then by my own mind.
It's not like I want much. It doesn't seem like it should be very hard. I know I'm not going to turn into some kind of hyper-charismatic socialite. It would just be a nice feeling to know that someone outside of my family will care if I die tomorrow.
So why is it so difficult? Am I not giving myself the proper opportunities, or am I just not handling them appropriately? I'm pretty sure it's the latter. I'm a quiet person by nature, and I'm not good at holding conversations with people. I struggle even more to find openings to start conversations with people, even if it's a person who I already sort of know.
Whenever I try to talk to someone, I feel like they find me mildly annoying. I'm not sure if this is paranoia on my part, or if I'm actually annoying. But the biggest problem, I think, is that I'm terrified to talk about myself. I worry about being judged. I worry that if some person gets to know me, they'll realize I don't have any friends or social life and they'll think it's pathetic. I guess there's probably not any solution to that problem other than to simply deal with it and put myself out there anyway.
Anyway, this post has gotten quite long enough. Thanks for reading, if you did. I imagine it probably seems like a lot of mundane self-absorbed whining, but at least it feels nice to put it in writing.
So for all you folks out there, whether you have been in a similar situation, are in a similar situation, or have never conceived of being in such a situation, I would like to extract a few of my socially inept questions from this wall of text and pose them to you directly:
- Where do you meet new people? - How do you turn a casual acquaintance (like someone you know from class or work) into a friend? - How do I become less dismal at holding conversations with people? Is it just a matter of practice? - How do I know if I'm actually being annoying to someone? I feel like it would be inconsiderate to completely disregard that possibility, but at the same time I feel like it's a poor idea to just stop talking to people altogether.
That's all I've got. Any advice, comments, questions, or insults are welcome.
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no one deserves to go through life alone, not even hitler or osama bin laden lived alone.
Basically it is very easy to become a people person if you simply take interest in them. Learn more about them, about what makes them who they are. THe most flattering thing is when someone takes interest or notices you, i mean i magine if people just came up to you asking all about yourself? How great would that make you feel? Now just reverse it to going up and doing that to other people and how great that makes them feel
You can tell if you are being annoying by getting better at reading body language.
annoyed
- just look at her face, pretty much says it all, and arms are crossed. No smile and not interested in conversing, time to move on
interested
- smiles, eye contact, they are both physically close to each other (in their personal space)
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- Where do you meet new people? - How do you turn a casual acquaintance (like someone you know from class or work) into a friend? - How do I become less dismal at holding conversations with people? Is it just a matter of practice? - How do I know if I'm actually being annoying to someone? I feel like it would be inconsiderate to completely disregard that possibility, but at the same time I feel like it's a poor idea to just stop talking to people altogether. 1.) Classes & clubs, then you meet more people through the people you meet. 2.) You get in their face all the time. No, really, it's about consistent contact. Just hang out with someone long enough, don't be too annoying, and it'll sail pretty smoothly. 3.) Yes, it's a matter of practice. I'm still horrid at conversations with some types of people, but here's a good rule of thumb: talk less about yourself (maybe you already have this down? ), ask questions about them. People loooooooooooooove to talk about themselves. Give them an inch, they'll take a mile. Unless you are talking to another introvert like yourself, then it may get awkward. I also highly recommend hanging out with more extroverted/social people. You can leech some of their energy from them (or at least watch how they interact with others). Also they're least likely to make you feel awkward. 4.) Body language, mostly. I still have a habit of talking on and on when people are clearly bored, but again, if you're talking less and they're talking more, they'll leave when they want to. (They'll be in more control of the conversation, and if they need to leave, they will.)
Once again, I will stress that you should hang out with more extroverted people. Put two introverts together, and if they don't know each other well, it can get awkward real fast, in my experience. Not that all introverts are awkward, but if you're already uncomfortable with interacting with people in general, it's not a good place to start, imo.
I also recommend dipping your toes into the couchsurfing community. Hosting people is cool, and you can meet all sorts of new people. Most of them are quite extroverted as well and willing to talk your ear off about their experiences, esp. after just a beer, and since a lot of them are interesting in their own rights, you don't even have to pretend interest (which makes it hard to converse, I think).
If you end up enrolling into university again, take advantage of the initial rush of new-people-on-campus-who-are-all-confused-and-lost-and-lonely-in-a-new-place. i know it may be tiring and all, but that's the time that everyone is so concerned with making friends that they'll latch onto anyone, and you can make a friend or two if you keep relatively consistent contact with them.
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One thing that's good to know is that everyone is troubled in some way. You don't live in a world where you have problems and everyone else is a totally complete person. Everyone has weak moments and parts of their life they are sensitive about. You see the most popular person in a party that everyone loves? That person has his/her own problems. You see the millionaires driving fancy cars? Inside, they are worrying about a lot as well. You may have your own problems and be discontent with you life, but so is everyone, and they just don't show it. When you talk with people, don't worry too much about what they think of you. They're someone who wants to be friends with you just as much as you want to be friends with them. Don't worry about other people thinking you are annoying or pathetic. Chances are, they are worried about how you think of them and didn't even notice anything bad about you. So when you talk to people, you don't need to engineer yourself to be someone likeable. People by default are very likeable, and you already seem like a pleasant person to me. Easiest way to get closer to someone is to simply ask them to get a drink or dinner with you after class or work. And also stop worrying so much and overthink everything.
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On November 08 2013 09:58 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +- Where do you meet new people? - How do you turn a casual acquaintance (like someone you know from class or work) into a friend? - How do I become less dismal at holding conversations with people? Is it just a matter of practice? - How do I know if I'm actually being annoying to someone? I feel like it would be inconsiderate to completely disregard that possibility, but at the same time I feel like it's a poor idea to just stop talking to people altogether. 1.) Classes & clubs, then you meet more people through the people you meet. 2.) You get in their face all the time. No, really, it's about consistent contact. Just hang out with someone long enough, don't be too annoying, and it'll sail pretty smoothly. 3.) Yes, it's a matter of practice. I'm still horrid at conversations with some types of people, but here's a good rule of thumb: talk less about yourself (maybe you already have this down? ), ask questions about them. People loooooooooooooove to talk about themselves. Give them an inch, they'll take a mile. Unless you are talking to another introvert like yourself, then it may get awkward. I also highly recommend hanging out with more extroverted/social people. You can leech some of their energy from them (or at least watch how they interact with others). Also they're least likely to make you feel awkward. 4.) Body language, mostly. I still have a habit of talking on and on when people are clearly bored, but again, if you're talking less and they're talking more, they'll leave when they want to. (They'll be in more control of the conversation, and if they need to leave, they will.) Once again, I will stress that you should hang out with more extroverted people. Put two introverts together, and if they don't know each other well, it can get awkward real fast, in my experience. Not that all introverts are awkward, but if you're already uncomfortable with interacting with people in general, it's not a good place to start, imo. I also recommend dipping your toes into the couchsurfing community. Hosting people is cool, and you can meet all sorts of new people. Most of them are quite extroverted as well and willing to talk your ear off about their experiences, esp. after just a beer, and since a lot of them are interesting in their own rights, you don't even have to pretend interest (which makes it hard to converse, I think). If you end up enrolling into university again, take advantage of the initial rush of new-people-on-campus-who-are-all-confused-and-lost-and-lonely-in-a-new-place. i know it may be tiring and all, but that's the time that everyone is so concerned with making friends that they'll latch onto anyone, and you can make a friend or two if you keep relatively consistent contact with them. haha i love how similar our answers are
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Im curious why you must have friends? I dont have any because they all dropped me or i dropped them for one reason or another. And honestly im the happist ive been ever. I dont think filling your life with people will improve it, much like piling a heap of shit will help. Ive always been of the notion life should be lived with one maybe two special top notch people and to hell with the rest of it. Only person i hang out with now is my wife. That said i guess you gotta shift through the shit to get the diamonds.
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It was nice to read this blog entry of yours, I found it honest and endearing - I would like to do something to help but I'm unsure what, especially since I do not have a social circle around me anymore either.
I'm feeling a bit melancholic as I gaze upon teamliquid myself, I was just listening to this and indulging in some self pitty and I feel a bit understood even now.
Thank you for that, If you ever need someone to play starcraftII with, or maybe some osu just send me a pm! =)
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look man, you are trying to impress anyone you talk to and people can sense this a mile away. Immediately they sense your insecurity about yourself, and thus will kind of be iffy about connecting with you. The truth is, when you stop trying to impress others, and just express yourself people will see it and respect it, even if they dislike you.
So ask yourself this, how do you act around your close family members, your close friends? In those situations you are not trying to impress anyone, and just being yourself, and this is the personality you have to drive out when talking to others. Don't force things just let it come out however it may. If people don't like you, no big deal, because there will be people that will love you for being genuine. You are sub communicating that you are comfortable with yourself, and that it doesn't matter if other people think your weird or lame and that you will still express yourself. That is powerful stuff.
Also stop reading everything on the internet, about how to be amazing person that everyone likes, that is the kind of bullshit that gets you in trouble. Just do you and don't look back.
edit: also
" they'll realize I don't have any friends or social life and they'll think it's pathetic. I guess there's probably not any solution to that problem other than to simply deal with it and put myself out there anyway."
self deprecating humour is your solution for this. If you can make fun of yourself in a mild and amusing way, that you aren't the best with people, others will understand.
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Grab a skill imo, learn an art (dance, music whatever) or a skill ( carpentry, finance, pottery, programming ) Excel at it and people will be drawn to you
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Getting along with people is a skill you can learn like anything else and it doesn't just come down to one thing like making fun of yourself or being confident in my experience. I think what really helps is having some things to talk about, just some random interesting topics for when you meet people. Of course that means its gonna be a lot easier to get along with people who you have some common interests with, as you already have some stuff to talk about. My biggest piece of advice would be just to have one or two beers to get past your nerves and stop worrying about whether someone else likes you. Your gonna have to start of with some sort of small talk anyway might be about sports, internet, whatever. Most times in my experience it doesn't even really matter what you talk about when your meeting people as long as your talking about something (best thing is if its funny or easily agreeable though). You shouldn't expect any deep conversations with people you just met a few times. So you'll eventually get better at that kind of small talk and be more comfortable in those situations, its just hard the first couple of times (hence the alcohol to loosen up and actually talk to someone). You'll eventually get a feel for how open you can be with people you just met and what kind of things are "well received".
-Where do you meet new people?
I'd recommend something that you're interested in maybe some class or course or sports club or anything where you'd meet like minded people, the common interest will give you something to talk about. There you get to meet people on a regular basis so you have some time to get to know them. Or of course university/community college is perfect. I'd highly recommend just going outside with people if thei'r having a smoke even if you don't smoke yourself.
-How do you turn a casual acquaintance (like someone you know from class or work) into a friend?
I'd recommend chatting with people (online/phone) because its a lot easier than actually talking to them and if at some point you know them better just do something with them, video games, sports, drinking, party ect.
-How do I become less dismal at holding conversations with people? Is it just a matter of practice?
Definitely just practice and experience
-How do I know if I'm actually being annoying to someone? I feel like it would be inconsiderate to completely disregard that possibility, but at the same time I feel like it's a poor idea to just stop talking to people altogether.
If you're annoying someone they'll let you know if it bothers them enough and otherwise we all have to put up with people we find annoying and sometimes we like them once we get to know them better.
Hope this isn't to long :D All just my opinion no scientific evidence behind it hope this helps.
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This blog could have been written by me. Some paragraphs describe perfectly my attitude or perception on my "abilities" to make friends ... I feel the same every day of my life. I feel socially inept and I really cannot explain why. Most people tell me that I am a quiet introverted person but that I am a "nice" guy. And that I self-criticise myself too much and that I dont have faith in myself. Even though they are telling me this, none of them really invites me in hanging out with them. Everyday I wake up and realize that I don´t have any friends that would really care if I die tomorrow. Sadly I have already given up on looking for friends and I just accept to live my life alone unless a miracle is happening. It isnt a hard life to just go straight home after work, doing some homework and just get online, read a book, watch a movie, do some fitness and other things you can do alone. Of course it would be much nicer if you had someone with whom you could share activities.
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First thing to bear in mind:
There is no entrance exam for posting something on Facebook. Pay its contents no heed.
Second, some context:
I too struggled socially during childhood and through my teenage years. I seldom had more than one friend at a time, and when they moved on (as people do, especially when you don't treat them particularly well) it was emotionally devastating. I was uncomfortable around people I didn't know, and utterly incapable of talking to girls.
Although change has been a gradual process with plenty of backsliding, I can with absolute clarity pinpoint the watershed moment in my life:
At university I'd got myself a massive crush on a girl. Obsessed. She was on the (other) edge of the small circle of friends I'd picked up, and I got myself into a ridiculous state, simultaneously doing everything I could think of to 'accidentally' be in her way and terrified of being caught liking a girl. After all, me liking a girl was ridiculous, even shameful. I knew that from school. If I so much as looked appraisingly at a girl, I'd be publicly derided. So for me, liking girls had become something furtive, dirty. It had to be something private, just between us, if I could just get her to understand...
Long story short, I ended up leaving a note for my parents and sneaking out of the house one Christmas Eve to drive the 400 miles or so to her parents' house. I got there in the early hours, slept in the car with the gift I'd made her, and was woken up by her dad.
Yeah.
Two weeks later I returned to university. I went up to the dorm corridor I'd lived on in my first year to see a friend who had managed to keep the same room as before. He wasn't there, so I walked across to my old room (the door was open) to ask the new occupant when he'd be back. Pretty much everyone on the corridor was in there, all strangers. I introduced myself, got chatting, and noticed the girl who was now living in my room giving me some appraising looks. I'd never actually seen that kind of look directed at me before. I came back a couple of days later and asked her out to the cinema. Her name's Jackie and our daughter's name is Mahale. Jackie's a wedding photographer and I assist her part time, which means every few weeks I get to walk into a house full of complete strangers, put them at ease and make sure they have a great time while taking photos. I get on well with everyone in my day job, I have more female friends than male ones, and I enjoy social events.
The tipping point was that Christmas day, and here's why:
Up to then, I'd been the kind of guy who never admitted his mistakes. It was a character trait that had started small but reinforced itself over time (I rather suspect the spark was being pulled out in front of the class in pre-school and being made to sit there until I could tie my own shoelaces, a humiliation I can still remember 35 years later). The more I hated being wrong, the more I'd feel driven to be right all the time and rub it in everyone's faces. The more I did that, the more those around me delighted when I fucked up, the more angry I'd get and the more I'd try to convince myself I wasn't really wrong, and so on. I became hypersensitive, paranoid about people judging me - and so of course I rushed to judge them, made derogatory jokes. belittled their interests if they differed from mine. I was funny, but not exactly nice.
That Christmas day, I basically blew all the fuses. I fucked up so hugely, so publicly, so irrevocably and so undeniably that I simply couldn't cram it all through the same bullshit filter I'd been using my whole life. I drove home. My mum asked if I was OK, and gave me a hug. Then I went to my room, and I laughed my ass off at myself.
And that turned out to be the key to everything else.
It wasn't an overnight cure. Old habits die hard and respawn, and I had to relearn to laugh at myself many more times since then. But it gets easier. I was able to walk into a room and ask out the girl who was to become my wife, not because I'd gained anything, but because I'd got rid of a totally disproportionate amount of fear and worry.
I'm not giving you advice here, I'm just talking about myself. But I'd be interested to know if you think your fear of being judged by others might stem from the fact that you habitually judge them, subconsciously looking for something you can use to feel superior, in case they're mean to you or make you feel inadequate in some way.
TL;DR: Learn to laugh at yourself. After all, comedy = tragedy + distance, so take a step back and laugh.
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On November 08 2013 22:21 Kingsky wrote: Grab a skill imo, learn an art (dance, music whatever) or a skill ( carpentry, finance, pottery, programming ) Excel at it and people will be drawn to you Your categorization of activities is a bit odd. Depending on whom you ask, carpentry, pottery, and programming can all be arts as well.
But not finance. Finance people are a dime a dozen.
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On November 08 2013 22:21 Kingsky wrote: Grab a skill imo, learn an art (dance, music whatever) or a skill ( carpentry, finance, pottery, programming ) Excel at it and people will be drawn to you
Ehhhhhhhhhh........ no. Well, sort of, but no.
At school I excelled at English and mathematics, and later at programming. People weren't drawn to me. I was an asshole about it. It's not that I went around saying "ha ha, I'm better than you", but it was so obvious that I cared about being #1 that it put people off.
In particular, don't excel at something just to have something to talk about. That makes all your conversations very one-sided and you come across as egotistical. In my experience, it's much easier to talk to people if they know more than you, because all you have to do is be interested.
I used to be like this:
This person is into something I'm not into. If I'm not into it, then either it's terrible, or I've made an embarrassing mistake by not getting into it. Either belittle what they're into, or make a show of indifference to it. ??? Fail.
Now I do this:
This person is into something I'm not into. I will assume it's awesome and that I've just not been exposed to it properly or that I don't understand it well enough to appreciate it. Ask questions. ??? Profit!
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Thanks for all the responses everyone, it's given me a lot to think about.
On November 08 2013 09:46 Smurfett3 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +no one deserves to go through life alone, not even hitler or osama bin laden lived alone. Basically it is very easy to become a people person if you simply take interest in them. Learn more about them, about what makes them who they are. THe most flattering thing is when someone takes interest or notices you, i mean i magine if people just came up to you asking all about yourself? How great would that make you feel? Now just reverse it to going up and doing that to other people and how great that makes them feel You can tell if you are being annoying by getting better at reading body language. annoyed - just look at her face, pretty much says it all, and arms are crossed. No smile and not interested in conversing, time to move on interested - smiles, eye contact, they are both physically close to each other (in their personal space)
You know, a lot of times when I'm mired in self-pity I find myself wondering why nobody around me seems to be take interest in me. I guess in reality I'm probably the one who needs to be showing interest. I'll have to try doing that more. I'm usually afraid to ask too many personal questions to someone I don't know because I don't want them to feel uncomfortable or think I'm being invasive. Maybe I just need to put myself in their position and think about whether I'd feel that way. I don't think I would.
Thanks for the tips. I really don't tend to think about body language at all. I probably should.
On November 08 2013 09:58 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +- Where do you meet new people? - How do you turn a casual acquaintance (like someone you know from class or work) into a friend? - How do I become less dismal at holding conversations with people? Is it just a matter of practice? - How do I know if I'm actually being annoying to someone? I feel like it would be inconsiderate to completely disregard that possibility, but at the same time I feel like it's a poor idea to just stop talking to people altogether. + Show Spoiler +1.) Classes & clubs, then you meet more people through the people you meet. 2.) You get in their face all the time. No, really, it's about consistent contact. Just hang out with someone long enough, don't be too annoying, and it'll sail pretty smoothly. 3.) Yes, it's a matter of practice. I'm still horrid at conversations with some types of people, but here's a good rule of thumb: talk less about yourself (maybe you already have this down? ), ask questions about them. People loooooooooooooove to talk about themselves. Give them an inch, they'll take a mile. Unless you are talking to another introvert like yourself, then it may get awkward. I also highly recommend hanging out with more extroverted/social people. You can leech some of their energy from them (or at least watch how they interact with others). Also they're least likely to make you feel awkward. 4.) Body language, mostly. I still have a habit of talking on and on when people are clearly bored, but again, if you're talking less and they're talking more, they'll leave when they want to. (They'll be in more control of the conversation, and if they need to leave, they will.) Once again, I will stress that you should hang out with more extroverted people. Put two introverts together, and if they don't know each other well, it can get awkward real fast, in my experience. Not that all introverts are awkward, but if you're already uncomfortable with interacting with people in general, it's not a good place to start, imo. I also recommend dipping your toes into the couchsurfing community. Hosting people is cool, and you can meet all sorts of new people. Most of them are quite extroverted as well and willing to talk your ear off about their experiences, esp. after just a beer, and since a lot of them are interesting in their own rights, you don't even have to pretend interest (which makes it hard to converse, I think). If you end up enrolling into university again, take advantage of the initial rush of new-people-on-campus-who-are-all-confused-and-lost-and-lonely-in-a-new-place. i know it may be tiring and all, but that's the time that everyone is so concerned with making friends that they'll latch onto anyone, and you can make a friend or two if you keep relatively consistent contact with them.
Thanks for your thoughts. I've definitely noticed that it's easier talking to extroverted people. At the same time, getting to know them can seem a bit overwhelming to me since they know so many people, it's easy to feel like I'm just scenery along the road for them.
On November 08 2013 10:02 Chairman Ray wrote:+ Show Spoiler +One thing that's good to know is that everyone is troubled in some way. You don't live in a world where you have problems and everyone else is a totally complete person. Everyone has weak moments and parts of their life they are sensitive about. You see the most popular person in a party that everyone loves? That person has his/her own problems. You see the millionaires driving fancy cars? Inside, they are worrying about a lot as well. You may have your own problems and be discontent with you life, but so is everyone, and they just don't show it. When you talk with people, don't worry too much about what they think of you. They're someone who wants to be friends with you just as much as you want to be friends with them. Don't worry about other people thinking you are annoying or pathetic. Chances are, they are worried about how you think of them and didn't even notice anything bad about you. So when you talk to people, you don't need to engineer yourself to be someone likeable. People by default are very likeable, and you already seem like a pleasant person to me. Easiest way to get closer to someone is to simply ask them to get a drink or dinner with you after class or work. And also stop worrying so much and overthink everything.
Thanks for writing this post. I do tend to put other people on pedestals. Even if I know intellectually that we're all pretty much the same, I guess I haven't internalized it well enough since my instinctive reaction to being around other people is a feeling of inferiority. I'll just have to remind myself more often.
On November 08 2013 11:38 FromShouri wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Im curious why you must have friends? I dont have any because they all dropped me or i dropped them for one reason or another. And honestly im the happist ive been ever. I dont think filling your life with people will improve it, much like piling a heap of shit will help. Ive always been of the notion life should be lived with one maybe two special top notch people and to hell with the rest of it. Only person i hang out with now is my wife. That said i guess you gotta shift through the shit to get the diamonds.
I'm just lonely. I don't necessarily disagree with you. If I had one or two good friends or a significant other, I'd probably be more content. I don't know for sure how I'd feel because as it stands I don't have that. I feel pretty okay with how my life is going right now, it doesn't need a big improvement. It's just that the sense of isolation gets to me sometimes. I'm tired of it.
On November 08 2013 11:49 vaL4r wrote:+ Show Spoiler +It was nice to read this blog entry of yours, I found it honest and endearing - I would like to do something to help but I'm unsure what, especially since I do not have a social circle around me anymore either. I'm feeling a bit melancholic as I gaze upon teamliquid myself, I was just listening to this and indulging in some self pitty and I feel a bit understood even now. Thank you for that, If you ever need someone to play starcraftII with, or maybe some osu just send me a pm! =)
Hey, I'm glad you liked it. It's always nice to be reminded there's other people out there going through something similar when you're having a hard time. I would take you up on that last part but to be honest I've never played osu and haven't touched sc2 for several months. But if you ever want someone to talk to, I'm on TL pretty frequently (as you might imagine).
On November 08 2013 12:17 biology]major wrote:+ Show Spoiler +look man, you are trying to impress anyone you talk to and people can sense this a mile away. Immediately they sense your insecurity about yourself, and thus will kind of be iffy about connecting with you. The truth is, when you stop trying to impress others, and just express yourself people will see it and respect it, even if they dislike you.
So ask yourself this, how do you act around your close family members, your close friends? In those situations you are not trying to impress anyone, and just being yourself, and this is the personality you have to drive out when talking to others. Don't force things just let it come out however it may. If people don't like you, no big deal, because there will be people that will love you for being genuine. You are sub communicating that you are comfortable with yourself, and that it doesn't matter if other people think your weird or lame and that you will still express yourself. That is powerful stuff.
Also stop reading everything on the internet, about how to be amazing person that everyone likes, that is the kind of bullshit that gets you in trouble. Just do you and don't look back.
edit: also
" they'll realize I don't have any friends or social life and they'll think it's pathetic. I guess there's probably not any solution to that problem other than to simply deal with it and put myself out there anyway."
self deprecating humour is your solution for this. If you can make fun of yourself in a mild and amusing way, that you aren't the best with people, others will understand.
That's fair, maybe I am trying too hard. Thanks for taking the time to write this, I appreciate it.
On November 08 2013 22:21 Kingsky wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Grab a skill imo, learn an art (dance, music whatever) or a skill ( carpentry, finance, pottery, programming ) Excel at it and people will be drawn to you
Thanks for the tip. I've been working on that, but more for my own enjoyment and fulfillment. If it helps make me more interesting to other people as a byproduct, that would be awesome.
On November 08 2013 22:39 ClarenceSc wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Getting along with people is a skill you can learn like anything else and it doesn't just come down to one thing like making fun of yourself or being confident in my experience. I think what really helps is having some things to talk about, just some random interesting topics for when you meet people. Of course that means its gonna be a lot easier to get along with people who you have some common interests with, as you already have some stuff to talk about. My biggest piece of advice would be just to have one or two beers to get past your nerves and stop worrying about whether someone else likes you. Your gonna have to start of with some sort of small talk anyway might be about sports, internet, whatever. Most times in my experience it doesn't even really matter what you talk about when your meeting people as long as your talking about something (best thing is if its funny or easily agreeable though). You shouldn't expect any deep conversations with people you just met a few times. So you'll eventually get better at that kind of small talk and be more comfortable in those situations, its just hard the first couple of times (hence the alcohol to loosen up and actually talk to someone). You'll eventually get a feel for how open you can be with people you just met and what kind of things are "well received". -Where do you meet new people? I'd recommend something that you're interested in maybe some class or course or sports club or anything where you'd meet like minded people, the common interest will give you something to talk about. There you get to meet people on a regular basis so you have some time to get to know them. Or of course university/community college is perfect. I'd highly recommend just going outside with people if thei'r having a smoke even if you don't smoke yourself. -How do you turn a casual acquaintance (like someone you know from class or work) into a friend? I'd recommend chatting with people (online/phone) because its a lot easier than actually talking to them and if at some point you know them better just do something with them, video games, sports, drinking, party ect. -How do I become less dismal at holding conversations with people? Is it just a matter of practice? Definitely just practice and experience -How do I know if I'm actually being annoying to someone? I feel like it would be inconsiderate to completely disregard that possibility, but at the same time I feel like it's a poor idea to just stop talking to people altogether. If you're annoying someone they'll let you know if it bothers them enough and otherwise we all have to put up with people we find annoying and sometimes we like them once we get to know them better. Hope this isn't to long :D All just my opinion no scientific evidence behind it hope this helps.
Your opinions are appreciated, thank you. I'm really the worst at small talk, I should probably work on that.
On November 09 2013 00:55 404AlphaSquad wrote:+ Show Spoiler +This blog could have been written by me. Some paragraphs describe perfectly my attitude or perception on my "abilities" to make friends ... I feel the same every day of my life. I feel socially inept and I really cannot explain why. Most people tell me that I am a quiet introverted person but that I am a "nice" guy. And that I self-criticise myself too much and that I dont have faith in myself. Even though they are telling me this, none of them really invites me in hanging out with them. Everyday I wake up and realize that I don´t have any friends that would really care if I die tomorrow. Sadly I have already given up on looking for friends and I just accept to live my life alone unless a miracle is happening. It isnt a hard life to just go straight home after work, doing some homework and just get online, read a book, watch a movie, do some fitness and other things you can do alone. Of course it would be much nicer if you had someone with whom you could share activities.
It's nice to know there's someone else in the same situation, but at the same time I'm sorry you're going through it. It's never too late to make a change. One of the things I'm coming to realize is that you can't let yourself focus on whether other people are inviting you, or whether other people are interested in you. You have to take the initiative, show interest in others, invite them to do something. Of course if you're like me, that's much easier said than done. But at least it gives us something to strive for.
On November 09 2013 01:53 Umpteen wrote:+ Show Spoiler +First thing to bear in mind:
There is no entrance exam for posting something on Facebook. Pay its contents no heed.
Second, some context:
I too struggled socially during childhood and through my teenage years. I seldom had more than one friend at a time, and when they moved on (as people do, especially when you don't treat them particularly well) it was emotionally devastating. I was uncomfortable around people I didn't know, and utterly incapable of talking to girls.
Although change has been a gradual process with plenty of backsliding, I can with absolute clarity pinpoint the watershed moment in my life:
At university I'd got myself a massive crush on a girl. Obsessed. She was on the (other) edge of the small circle of friends I'd picked up, and I got myself into a ridiculous state, simultaneously doing everything I could think of to 'accidentally' be in her way and terrified of being caught liking a girl. After all, me liking a girl was ridiculous, even shameful. I knew that from school. If I so much as looked appraisingly at a girl, I'd be publicly derided. So for me, liking girls had become something furtive, dirty. It had to be something private, just between us, if I could just get her to understand...
Long story short, I ended up leaving a note for my parents and sneaking out of the house one Christmas Eve to drive the 400 miles or so to her parents' house. I got there in the early hours, slept in the car with the gift I'd made her, and was woken up by her dad.
Yeah.
Two weeks later I returned to university. I went up to the dorm corridor I'd lived on in my first year to see a friend who had managed to keep the same room as before. He wasn't there, so I walked across to my old room (the door was open) to ask the new occupant when he'd be back. Pretty much everyone on the corridor was in there, all strangers. I introduced myself, got chatting, and noticed the girl who was now living in my room giving me some appraising looks. I'd never actually seen that kind of look directed at me before. I came back a couple of days later and asked her out to the cinema. Her name's Jackie and our daughter's name is Mahale. Jackie's a wedding photographer and I assist her part time, which means every few weeks I get to walk into a house full of complete strangers, put them at ease and make sure they have a great time while taking photos. I get on well with everyone in my day job, I have more female friends than male ones, and I enjoy social events.
The tipping point was that Christmas day, and here's why:
Up to then, I'd been the kind of guy who never admitted his mistakes. It was a character trait that had started small but reinforced itself over time (I rather suspect the spark was being pulled out in front of the class in pre-school and being made to sit there until I could tie my own shoelaces, a humiliation I can still remember 35 years later). The more I hated being wrong, the more I'd feel driven to be right all the time and rub it in everyone's faces. The more I did that, the more those around me delighted when I fucked up, the more angry I'd get and the more I'd try to convince myself I wasn't really wrong, and so on. I became hypersensitive, paranoid about people judging me - and so of course I rushed to judge them, made derogatory jokes. belittled their interests if they differed from mine. I was funny, but not exactly nice.
That Christmas day, I basically blew all the fuses. I fucked up so hugely, so publicly, so irrevocably and so undeniably that I simply couldn't cram it all through the same bullshit filter I'd been using my whole life. I drove home. My mum asked if I was OK, and gave me a hug. Then I went to my room, and I laughed my ass off at myself.
And that turned out to be the key to everything else.
It wasn't an overnight cure. Old habits die hard and respawn, and I had to relearn to laugh at myself many more times since then. But it gets easier. I was able to walk into a room and ask out the girl who was to become my wife, not because I'd gained anything, but because I'd got rid of a totally disproportionate amount of fear and worry.
I'm not giving you advice here, I'm just talking about myself. But I'd be interested to know if you think your fear of being judged by others might stem from the fact that you habitually judge them, subconsciously looking for something you can use to feel superior, in case they're mean to you or make you feel inadequate in some way.
TL;DR: Learn to laugh at yourself. After all, comedy = tragedy + distance, so take a step back and laugh.
Hey, thanks a lot for writing this post. I'm happy that things ended up going well for you. I think more often the way I prepare for the possibility of someone being mean to me is by putting myself down. It seems stupid since I haven't really had many experiences where people reacted negatively to me or insulted me (other than on the internet). Yet for some reason I frequently find myself envisioning other people putting me down, and my response to them is always "Yeah, that's true".
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Hey, thanks a lot for writing this post. I'm happy that things ended up going well for you. I think more often the way I prepare for the possibility of someone being mean to me is by putting myself down. It seems stupid since I haven't really had many experiences where people reacted negatively to me or insulted me (other than on the internet). Yet for some reason I frequently find myself envisioning other people putting me down, and my response to them is always "Yeah, that's true".
Yeah, sounds like you have a different problem. Unless you actually do suck, in which case you're fine
I wrote that post because I think it's important to realise that your life up to the age of 18, 20, 25 - doesn't have to define you. It will always be a part of you, of course, but that's OK. It's like, you might have learned how to play piano when you were younger, but you don't have to 'be' a pianist.
The only reason you get up each day and behave the way you did the day before is habit. It's all you know how to do. It's not who you are, or who you're destined to be, it's just what you know right now. And just like walking, talking, riding a bike, driving a car, learning a language - you have to DO new things in order to learn how to do them well.
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i was incredibly shy and introverted all throughout highschool and college. I was lucky enough to have a best friend since childhood who is that one link that brought our whole social circle together. This meant that I always had a core group of friends that were like my second family. There was also many "chances" forced upon me to kind of practice my social skills if you will. My interactions within my core group were natural, but there were of course times when extended groups get together where friends of friends are all hanging out together. These kind of situations always turned me into a statue. My social anxiety would kick in and i would just second guess everything. The worst is when you end up sitting in the middle of the two groups... the pressure was too much.
Of course, this social awkwardness was magnified when it came to interaction with girls. I also pretty much never approached anyone or made any friends on my own outside of this core group. I transferred highschool in the middle of freshmen year. There was a girl i had a mad crush on who went to the new school and even lived in my subdivision. "Hey, im hanging out with some friends at XX wanna come with?" Thats all it would have taken to get something rolling. Instead i just talked to her about mundane shit in the one class we had together and sometimes drove her and her brother home since we live so close, unable to sustain a conversation most of the times during the car ride (talk about awkward).
After some time of being a hermit playing sc and cs, i started hanging out with my old friends again. At this point there were some new faces and this was like a weekly test for me. If i say something stupid, it would just linger in my mind. 'Jeez why did i say that, they must think im retarded.' Someone would make a comment or crack a joke at me and my mind is racing, 'is he playing mind games with me? why did he say that? does he really think im like that? Is he my friend? I hate him." There were nights when i feel like i did satisfactory (lol) and would feel better until the next weekend when i hate my social skills again.
Anyways it went on like this all throughout high school and truthfully, i didnt even try in college. Skip classes unless absolutely necessary, play games all day and night. Once in a while go over to friend's place to smoke and chill. No parties, no clubs, no friends made in college. Needless to say, i wasnt getting any better socially during this period.
One way or another, I ended up working at another state for a while after college. I was still the same person. I didnt suddenly become some kind of extrovert. In fact, i did mostly the same things there, work and play games. But there was a change in the way to think. I no longer viewed social situations as some kind of project that needs to be managed correctly. Basically, i started to "not give a fuck." Seriously, no one remembers the stupid shit you said last week, or even yesterday. They dont have it out to get you by revealing your social ineptitude. Seriously its no big deal. Everyone is just out to have a good time. Once you realize this, everything will sort it self out eventually. You will start to feel more at ease in social situations. This makes you less self-conscious, which makes you less prone to making "stupid, or awkward" mistakes. Even if you make some "social mistake," you can move on like everyone else already has. Eventually, you start to gain that self confidence, which i believe is the key difference between socially competent and awkward people.
Im currently studying abroad and its amazing how easily and naturally ive made close friends over the past few years. When i think about it, I actually became that one guy who brings together multiple groups of friends together to have a fun night out. Imagine that.
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That picture you found on facebook (the one you posted) sums it up. That is the answer. I went through 4 years of university without having very close friends and very minimal social activity...but I feel great. I just prefer to have a lot of alone time because that's what suits me. Sure I do have friends that I go out to eat with every now and then. Have your self-identity established, the rest will come naturally.
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