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[WH40k]Army list thoughts/criticism welcome

Blogs > iNcontroL
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iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-12 03:42:57
October 12 2013 03:28 GMT
#1
Hey guys! I commissioned www.frontlinegaming.org to paint my Tyranids army and it is nearly complete. From that point forward I will be practicing and playing a LOT of wh40k with the hopes of being a pretty awesome competitive player both locally and wherever else I can take my game. I played for years and years but this was middle school through college and as such I haven't played anything serious for nearly 5 years. So I am a newb again! Looking to learn 6th edition and do what I can


Specific questions:

1. Not sure on how psychic powers work for the Flyrants. All the bat reps I watch have no mention of "leech essence" or anything really.. it's always "iron arm" and stuff like that. So advice / education here would be nice <3

2. Ymgarl or normal stealers with broodlord? I really like the dormant ability and beefier stealers but challenges with the BL seem super powerful as well. My idea with genestealers here is a behind enemy lines hit squad capable of striking important targets or tying up a unit or two while my units get into position. Also some support for the Doom seems ok.

3. My army potentially doesn't field very many units but then it could potentially field A LOT depending on the Tervigons. Is this a point of concern? Do I ditch one of the Tervigons and go with a huge swarm of 'gants or gargoyles?

4. I love the Swarmlord. Probably my favorite unit but without ironarm his toughness/lack of invul save means he can be squishy unless I get him a lot of cover.. work around for this or roll the dice?


The army list

1750 points (most common points for tourneys in this area)

HQ: Flyrants x2 : twin linked devourers w/ brainleech / leech essence and psychic scream - 245 points x2 for 490 pts

Infantry: Tervigon w/ Catylst x3 w/ 10 termagants 525 pts + 150 for 675 pts

Elite: Doom w/ spore - 140 pts
Hive Guard x2 - 100 pts
Ymgarl x9 - 207 pts
Heavy Support: 3x biovore - 135 pts

I appreciate all the help and ideas! <3

PS: I know this isn't everyone's bag so if this doesn't interest you no worries, move along! I also know there is a LOT of WH40k enthusiasts out there so I am looking to learn lots <3

****
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
October 12 2013 05:14 GMT
#2
Flyrant... I get it... it's like a flying tyrant with the words merged.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
GTPGlitch
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
5061 Posts
October 12 2013 05:57 GMT
#3
ewwww nids

Y u no manly man marines ;o
Jo Byung Se #1 fan | CJ_Rush(reborn) fan | Liquid'Jinro(ret) fan | Liquid'Taeja fan | oGsTheSuperNada fan | Iris[gm](ret) fan |
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
October 12 2013 08:26 GMT
#4
Ahhh reminding me of my WH40K days as Tyranid.
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
dat_fungal
Profile Joined October 2013
United States2 Posts
October 12 2013 09:00 GMT
#5
good luck in 40k!

i happened to have played some different styled tyranid armylists for a little while (way back when...), before gravitating towards chaos (and then towards more specialist games like necromunda, BF gothic, etc) so not sure my 4th/5th edition knowledge will be much help to you with the specifics, but i would have some general tyranid advice if you'd like it!

- most of the heavy hitters; Tyrants, any Elites or Carnifex (if they still have those lol) will be dead by Turn 3.. i'm sorry to have to tell you this... but any Imperium-style army with lascannons (and don't even get me started on Tau) is going to make it's sole purpose in life to get your biggest, ugliest mofos off the table as quick as possible; so it's best not to sink a lot of points into them

- this being said, I've found some of the craftiest Nid opponents are the ones who can hide the points in their more numerous or hidden units (with squad upgrades and such), you end up spending all your time trying to take down their big guys when a couple hormagaunt squads hit your lines and end up chewing through half your army -__-

but I do love the fact that you seem to be basing your list around a sort of firepower/barrage style of play; just make sure to test your armylist's strengths against similar playstyles from other races to see how they stack up (could your biovores take on similarly priced ordnance? etcetc )

so good luck! hope to see you at a gamesday sometime soon!
.........
(PS: find an Ork player asap; nid/ork battles are hilariously retarded)
MoonfireSpam
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1153 Posts
October 12 2013 10:14 GMT
#6
Planning to upload some battle reports or stuff? Maybe somehow stream a few games?

I can't help with the army stuff, havent played for about 10 years.
atrox_
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom1711 Posts
October 12 2013 10:33 GMT
#7
Why pay a company to paint them for you? Isn't that like 90% of the fun?
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
October 12 2013 10:38 GMT
#8
On October 12 2013 19:14 MoonfireSpam wrote:
Planning to upload some battle reports or stuff? Maybe somehow stream a few games?

I can't help with the army stuff, havent played for about 10 years.


Yes actually. Not sure when or in what fashion but I will be working out some videos along these lines and depending how easy/motivated we are we will make a LOT or little
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
October 12 2013 10:39 GMT
#9
On October 12 2013 19:33 atrox_ wrote:
Why pay a company to paint them for you? Isn't that like 90% of the fun?


For some yes. For me I am horrible at the painting part and for many part of the fun would be to learn or improve on this but for me I'd rather pay someone good money to do what I couldn't in years of practice to make my beloved models look awesome. For me the game itself and the lore/conversation surrounding the game is 99% of the fun. Painting isn't my thing That said I'd be sad if they came pre painted.. I'd rather give someone direction on how I want mine individualized.
Kaal
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Djibouti2539 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-12 11:26:52
October 12 2013 11:24 GMT
#10
Ick, Double Flyrants. I don't like the build. I like lictors and geneswarms too much. I also like Carnifex too much not to use it. It's a fairly decent list, most IG lists will probably eat you alive though. Tyranid armies with less than 50 models offend me.

Take IRON ARM!!! waddafack, it ups your HT's survival by a crapton, with the life Leech even more so. Psychic scream pretty meh.
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
October 12 2013 12:39 GMT
#11
Fuck yeah warhammer! I used to play in middle school too, i remember all the awesome summer campaigns at the Games Workshop here in Milan. If i had the time and money to start up again i definitely would, Tau empire for life!

Btw, are all models plastic now? I took a quick look on the GW website, and it looks like they don't make nearly as many metal models anymore (which is nice, i like plastic far better tbh).
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
moktira *
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Ireland1545 Posts
October 12 2013 14:23 GMT
#12
On October 12 2013 21:39 Teoita wrote:
Fuck yeah warhammer! I used to play in middle school too, i remember all the awesome summer campaigns at the Games Workshop here in Milan. If i had the time and money to start up again i definitely would, Tau empire for life!

Btw, are all models plastic now? I took a quick look on the GW website, and it looks like they don't make nearly as many metal models anymore (which is nice, i like plastic far better tbh).

They changed to finecast resin about two years ago now for all the metal models. This saves them a lot of money and they took the opportunity to further increase their prices as a result. I think you can get some older models in metal still but it's virtually all resin now.

Resin models are possibly slightly more detailed (depends who you ask) but it feels like plastic when painting it. Some people say paint sticks to it better than metal too but I personally rather paint metal models, partly out of habit and partly because I'm used to the weight.
If in doubt, differentiate and set equal to zero
MtlGuitarist97
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States1539 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-12 14:26:48
October 12 2013 14:24 GMT
#13
On October 12 2013 21:39 Teoita wrote:
Fuck yeah warhammer! I used to play in middle school too, i remember all the awesome summer campaigns at the Games Workshop here in Milan. If i had the time and money to start up again i definitely would, Tau empire for life!

Btw, are all models plastic now? I took a quick look on the GW website, and it looks like they don't make nearly as many metal models anymore (which is nice, i like plastic far better tbh).

As far as I know, most of the stuff is either plastic or resin now.

I wish I still played. I used to teach kids how to play WH40K over the summer at a camp and kind of miss playing it. If it wasn't so expensive I'd consider picking it up again.

Anyway, please do upload some battle reports and some pics of your army. I'm sure a lot of us would be interested in seeing that

Edit: Ninja'd by 1 minute T_T
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
October 12 2013 14:25 GMT
#14
All my metal models from 10ish years ago have lost some paint, the plastic ones are still perfect though. Never tried a resin one though.
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
moktira *
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Ireland1545 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-12 14:38:33
October 12 2013 14:36 GMT
#15
I think for gaming resin are possibly better in that regard, if you just like painting models and not so much using them (like me) then they're less likely to lose paint as you're not moving them much really. I'm not really into the hobby anymore but I still paint occasionally, I don't like painting resin as much but I think that's quite subjective. It's not too different to painting plastic really. I don't think GW do as many nice models as they used about 10 years ago though. Anyway, I've gone way off topic here, perhaps there should be a GW general discussion thread for this.

On October 12 2013 12:28 iNcontroL wrote:
3. My army potentially doesn't field very many units but then it could potentially field A LOT depending on the Tervigons. Is this a point of concern? Do I ditch one of the Tervigons and go with a huge swarm of 'gants or gargoyles?

If Tyranids are anything like they were 10 years ago then I would recommend more units. This does depend who you are playing but if it's a shooty army I would recommend more units anyway. I'm afraid I can't really address any of your other questions but I was drawn in when I saw a 40k thread, good luck!
If in doubt, differentiate and set equal to zero
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
October 12 2013 14:42 GMT
#16
How balanced is Warhammer (and 40k for that matter) btw? Is it even realistic to play against every race with just one army list?
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
Godwrath
Profile Joined August 2012
Spain10131 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-12 19:33:33
October 12 2013 15:39 GMT
#17
On October 12 2013 23:42 Teoita wrote:
How balanced is Warhammer (and 40k for that matter) btw? Is it even realistic to play against every race with just one army list?

Very poorly. 6th edition has gone full retard, and fantasy still has the army books from past editions going crazy with the 8th changes to hordes for example (but way less now with Lizardmen and Dark Elves already released... but skaven are still around there) and chaos warrior full chariot/DP/chimaera spam which is extremely easy to play, extremely hard to play against with many armies (auto lose for some) and very very cost efficient so you get your VPs on tournaments. Top armies can make take all comers, shitty armies are stuck with one gameplay that sometimes is just very known or quite RPS like.

Best of luck to you incontrol, for playing Tyranids on 6th lol. Maybe when their codex is released they will go to the top of the food chain they had been missing since 4th edition ;P.

Answers from a "veteran" 40k player who has retired thanks to shitty 6th:

1 - Because of the chance on getting a unkillable beast with biomance. Mounstrous creatures (and more stuff) have wounds, but people just focus them down, instead of tickling them. So they just shoot you, make it to go down, and continue blasting the sucker into pulp. It also allows your flyrant to kill enemy flyers or do some crazy shit with vertical strikes. Anyways, there is a lot of luck involved in the proccess of "choosing" your psi spells.

2 - They are different and occupy a different FOC slot. Genestealer got nerfed hard with 6th edition changes, you can't congo line anymore to get cover while advancing with them, feel no pain and cover got nerfed to 5++, you can't flank and assault the turn you arrive, neither you can run and assault, etc, etc ,etc... they are not very cost effective, but there isn't much to work with tyranids. Anyways, use ymgarls IF you already have your antitank covered in other FOC slots (because nid FOC suck so much that most antitank is on elite slot). They are pretty good, since they are able to assault the turn they arrive, and you can use the +T to stay in combat (if you are also good and getting as little of them in combat when you assault), instead of just overrunning your opponent, so you don't get shoot back the next turn.

3 - Tervigons are a suitable option to have cheap troops to score, never get them on Headquarters slot if you can help it, so you can have a MC hidden in your deployment to score some objective, while pooping gants. And about the design... well, we will see with the next codex, there isn't much focus on how tyranids should be (the swarmy lists are just bland, and the Nidzilla lists rely a lot on luck with the psychich powers and your opponent not having a shooty list, gameplay that is very rewarded which the new codexes). So most nid players end up playing point denial lists, which score rather low but win... sometimes, specially against newbyes.

4 - If you want to play it, get some hive guards, and use look out sir! rule to distribute wounds. You need cover because the invuln is only on close combat as far i remember (i may be wrong, because it costs a ton and nobody plays it at tournaments, too many eggs on one basket you know). Also, if your opponent doesn't have high AP templates, put the hive guards base to base with him, so you can distribute with look out sir! even better.

Cheers!

PS - I am enjoying infinity right now, if you have some time (and loved games like XCOM), you should try it out, because it is just amazing in gameplay and models (or atleast for me, i like my sci fi with fewer swords, and more guns). I had been thinking to write a blogpost about it, but i doubt my english would let me do something useful.

PS 2 - Never paid for painting, but if i had spare cash for it, i totally would, i hate painting, i just don't enjoy painting droves of models, and neither have the ability so when i am over i say, awesome!... more like oh bollocks!

PS 3 - I want to shit on GW.

PS 4 - If you really want to play nids at tournaments, you should had waited for their new codex, because i am 100% sure that you will have to get new stuff.
xHaroldx
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands62 Posts
October 12 2013 15:41 GMT
#18
I play Tau myself so i don't have much advice for Nids. Playing with a "take all comers' army list is actually required if you want to play competitivly, there is simply no fair way to play if you could change your list all the time. Try to imagine SC2 where both players had to say there buildorder before the match, but then would be allowed to change, player 1 would change his buildorder to counter player 2, then player 2 would change to counter player 1, and on and on. In tournament play the people winning it are those that are willing to bring the most rediculously overpowered army that you can possibly make.

About psychic powers, you are allowed to swap out your Nid specific psychic powers for powers in the back of the rule book.
Im not sure on the exact rules, but if believe you just roll on a table in the back, the ammount depends on the ammount of powers your model has. Then you are allowed to swap on of the results on the table to the signature power.
[Agony]x90
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States853 Posts
October 12 2013 15:58 GMT
#19
I also play Tau, but I never got good enough to give anyone advice.

In any case, I hope you do consider doing bat reps! There is usually an absurd amount of time between turns due to time it takes to move infantry. Good time to snap photos :D.
JF dodger since 2009
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45003 Posts
October 12 2013 16:29 GMT
#20
On October 12 2013 14:14 ninazerg wrote:
Flyrant... I get it... it's like a flying tyrant with the words merged.


If Jaedong had wings...

Anyways, good luck with your Warhammer hobby, Geoff! Pics of your army please, when they're ready
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
nikfra
Profile Joined October 2013
Germany7 Posts
October 12 2013 16:41 GMT
#21
On October 12 2013 23:23 moktira wrote:
They changed to finecast resin about two years ago now for all the metal models.


Not all of the models. My Adeptus Sororitas are still metal. But I hope that will change soon as they are also at least getting an e-Book Codex.
moktira *
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Ireland1545 Posts
October 12 2013 18:26 GMT
#22
On October 13 2013 01:41 nikfra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2013 23:23 moktira wrote:
They changed to finecast resin about two years ago now for all the metal models.


Not all of the models. My Adeptus Sororitas are still metal. But I hope that will change soon as they are also at least getting an e-Book Codex.

Sorry yeah, I meant all new models that are released since then. The also recast a certain selection of older models in resin but not all, you're right. The specialist games stuff are also still in metal for example.
If in doubt, differentiate and set equal to zero
FFGenerations
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
7088 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-12 21:19:16
October 12 2013 21:16 GMT
#23
warhammer battle report videos are awesome
i've watched a few in random passing
does anyone have a favourite (youtube?) battlereport creator to recommend?

ps, if you guys didn't know, inc, tb and co. play a warhammer dnd game - videos on jp's channel here (scroll down a lot)
Cool BW Music Vid - youtube.com/watch?v=W54nlqJ-Nx8 ~~~~~ ᕤ OYSTERS ᕤ CLAMS ᕤ AND ᕤ CUCKOLDS ᕤ ~~~~~~ ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ PUNCH HIM ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ
Dubzex
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6994 Posts
October 12 2013 21:34 GMT
#24
On October 13 2013 06:16 FFGenerations wrote:
warhammer battle report videos are awesome
i've watched a few in random passing
does anyone have a favourite (youtube?) battlereport creator to recommend?

ps, if you guys didn't know, inc, tb and co. play a warhammer dnd game - videos on jp's channel here (scroll down a lot)

http://www.youtube.com/user/miniwargaming

This is the channel I follow for battle reports.
"DONT UNDERESTIMATE MY CARRY OR YOU WILL BE CARRIED INTO THE ABYSS OF SUFFERING" - Tyler 'TC' Cook
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
October 12 2013 21:56 GMT
#25
On October 12 2013 20:24 Kaal wrote:
Ick, Double Flyrants. I don't like the build. I like lictors and geneswarms too much. I also like Carnifex too much not to use it. It's a fairly decent list, most IG lists will probably eat you alive though. Tyranid armies with less than 50 models offend me.

Take IRON ARM!!! waddafack, it ups your HT's survival by a crapton, with the life Leech even more so. Psychic scream pretty meh.


I ask about psychic powers in my op iron arm isn't listed in the codex yet is obviously the best so that is why I ask .. But you can't "take" iron Arm in 6th edition you roll dice for it and 5 others. I'm guessing you don't play 6th edition?
Kaal
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Djibouti2539 Posts
October 13 2013 01:05 GMT
#26
On October 13 2013 06:56 iNcontroL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2013 20:24 Kaal wrote:
Ick, Double Flyrants. I don't like the build. I like lictors and geneswarms too much. I also like Carnifex too much not to use it. It's a fairly decent list, most IG lists will probably eat you alive though. Tyranid armies with less than 50 models offend me.

Take IRON ARM!!! waddafack, it ups your HT's survival by a crapton, with the life Leech even more so. Psychic scream pretty meh.


I ask about psychic powers in my op iron arm isn't listed in the codex yet is obviously the best so that is why I ask .. But you can't "take" iron Arm in 6th edition you roll dice for it and 5 others. I'm guessing you don't play 6th edition?


No, because it's terrible. I've basically switched fully to Warmahordes and the new Battletech, GW is just going full stupid and as much as I absolutely love the universe it's gotten to the point where I can't take it anymore.
docvoc
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States5491 Posts
October 13 2013 04:13 GMT
#27
My friends tried to get me into this, the money was the biggest issue. I couldn't bring myself to spend on the armies. That said, it's a really great game. I wish I could help assess your army though .
User was warned for too many mimes.
Brindled
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States508 Posts
October 13 2013 04:37 GMT
#28
Frontline Gaming also has Company of Heroes commentary if I'm not mistaken. Nice to see they do Warhammer stuff too!
Ua Mau ke Ea o ka ʻĀina i ka Pono @TL_Brindled11
SilentchiLL
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany1405 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-13 17:33:47
October 13 2013 17:19 GMT
#29
I was always interested in 40k, but I don't think I'll ever play it, currently watching the videos from here though http://www.youtube.com/user/miniwargaming/videos
Looking forward to eventually seeing you stream, even though you picked the faction I like the least <.<.


I don't understand shit and it's still fun to watch.
possum, sed nolo - Real men play random. ___ "Who the fuck is Kyle?!" C*****EX
Godwrath
Profile Joined August 2012
Spain10131 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-13 19:31:55
October 13 2013 19:30 GMT
#30
On October 13 2013 10:05 Kaal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2013 06:56 iNcontroL wrote:
On October 12 2013 20:24 Kaal wrote:
Ick, Double Flyrants. I don't like the build. I like lictors and geneswarms too much. I also like Carnifex too much not to use it. It's a fairly decent list, most IG lists will probably eat you alive though. Tyranid armies with less than 50 models offend me.

Take IRON ARM!!! waddafack, it ups your HT's survival by a crapton, with the life Leech even more so. Psychic scream pretty meh.


I ask about psychic powers in my op iron arm isn't listed in the codex yet is obviously the best so that is why I ask .. But you can't "take" iron Arm in 6th edition you roll dice for it and 5 others. I'm guessing you don't play 6th edition?


No, because it's terrible. I've basically switched fully to Warmahordes and the new Battletech, GW is just going full stupid and as much as I absolutely love the universe it's gotten to the point where I can't take it anymore.

Yeah, but MC never survived much, nidzilla worked way back on 4th and before 5th edition codex because of how cost efficient they were so you had shit tons of shooty MC's, but MC withouth invulnerable are shit, and even more shit if they have to get into close combat. Fifth you already had armies that could put enough firepower to kill 2/3 per turn easilly (even more, lol Space Wolves or shooty vanilla with mech armies) and nowadays you can even torrent fire them with all the crazy ass long range firepower with special rules or just too cost efficient to pass on. the only MC's that work are shooty ones with invulnerable of some sort and 2+ armor save so you can't just torrent them into oblivion(so you can guess that one is the Riptide, and only it right now).

You should try infinity too, it fucking rocks.
SilentchiLL
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany1405 Posts
October 13 2013 19:35 GMT
#31
Can anybody tell me what's good about the orkz? I like them as a race (though I like most races of the 40k universe), but from what I've seen from videotutorials the stats of the basic orkz don't seem too good (shitty initiative, shitty balistic skill, nothing really special about them).
Am I missing anything or are the bigger units of them just really good?
possum, sed nolo - Real men play random. ___ "Who the fuck is Kyle?!" C*****EX
Godwrath
Profile Joined August 2012
Spain10131 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-13 19:46:46
October 13 2013 19:46 GMT
#32
Not much. In the current edition hordes of 30 guys are more of a tarpit than something killy, due to game mechanichs. They can deal with crappy close combat units and other stuff just by sheer numbers, but still, close combat is quite unreliable to get into in this edition once your opponent understand how to force you to assault through cover.

Atleast they don't die on droves like they used to do with multicharges and stuff like that. Anyways the best thing about it are probably the looters, because they put a lot of torrent Strenght 7 shooting, they are easy to rally off the table if you have a decent army, but they can give you some headaches. Right now with the current meta they are quite a bad army, i would say only above sisters and tyranids, but miles below Tau, Eldar or SM (specially bikers with grav rifles and the legomarines with grav too )
SilentchiLL
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany1405 Posts
October 13 2013 20:03 GMT
#33
On October 14 2013 04:46 Godwrath wrote:
Not much. In the current edition hordes of 30 guys are more of a tarpit than something killy, due to game mechanichs. They can deal with crappy close combat units and other stuff just by sheer numbers, but still, close combat is quite unreliable to get into in this edition once your opponent understand how to force you to assault through cover.

Atleast they don't die on droves like they used to do with multicharges and stuff like that. Anyways the best thing about it are probably the looters, because they put a lot of torrent Strenght 7 shooting, they are easy to rally off the table if you have a decent army, but they can give you some headaches. Right now with the current meta they are quite a bad army, i would say only above sisters and tyranids, but miles below Tau, Eldar or SM (specially bikers with grav rifles and the legomarines with grav too )


How does the balancinc in wh40k work?
Shouldn't the company do something about the orkz when they are so obviously underpowered? 0.o
possum, sed nolo - Real men play random. ___ "Who the fuck is Kyle?!" C*****EX
calgar
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States1277 Posts
October 13 2013 20:59 GMT
#34
On October 14 2013 05:03 SilentchiLL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2013 04:46 Godwrath wrote:
Not much. In the current edition hordes of 30 guys are more of a tarpit than something killy, due to game mechanichs. They can deal with crappy close combat units and other stuff just by sheer numbers, but still, close combat is quite unreliable to get into in this edition once your opponent understand how to force you to assault through cover.

Atleast they don't die on droves like they used to do with multicharges and stuff like that. Anyways the best thing about it are probably the looters, because they put a lot of torrent Strenght 7 shooting, they are easy to rally off the table if you have a decent army, but they can give you some headaches. Right now with the current meta they are quite a bad army, i would say only above sisters and tyranids, but miles below Tau, Eldar or SM (specially bikers with grav rifles and the legomarines with grav too )


How does the balancinc in wh40k work?
Shouldn't the company do something about the orkz when they are so obviously underpowered? 0.o
Well its a business first and a game second. So profits come first more and more. If the weaker races aren't very popular (orks) compared to stronger and more popular armies then it isn't a priority because there isn't as much money in them.
Kaal
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Djibouti2539 Posts
October 13 2013 21:36 GMT
#35
On October 14 2013 04:30 Godwrath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2013 10:05 Kaal wrote:
On October 13 2013 06:56 iNcontroL wrote:
On October 12 2013 20:24 Kaal wrote:
Ick, Double Flyrants. I don't like the build. I like lictors and geneswarms too much. I also like Carnifex too much not to use it. It's a fairly decent list, most IG lists will probably eat you alive though. Tyranid armies with less than 50 models offend me.

Take IRON ARM!!! waddafack, it ups your HT's survival by a crapton, with the life Leech even more so. Psychic scream pretty meh.


I ask about psychic powers in my op iron arm isn't listed in the codex yet is obviously the best so that is why I ask .. But you can't "take" iron Arm in 6th edition you roll dice for it and 5 others. I'm guessing you don't play 6th edition?


No, because it's terrible. I've basically switched fully to Warmahordes and the new Battletech, GW is just going full stupid and as much as I absolutely love the universe it's gotten to the point where I can't take it anymore.

Yeah, but MC never survived much, nidzilla worked way back on 4th and before 5th edition codex because of how cost efficient they were so you had shit tons of shooty MC's, but MC withouth invulnerable are shit, and even more shit if they have to get into close combat. Fifth you already had armies that could put enough firepower to kill 2/3 per turn easilly (even more, lol Space Wolves or shooty vanilla with mech armies) and nowadays you can even torrent fire them with all the crazy ass long range firepower with special rules or just too cost efficient to pass on. the only MC's that work are shooty ones with invulnerable of some sort and 2+ armor save so you can't just torrent them into oblivion(so you can guess that one is the Riptide, and only it right now).

You should try infinity too, it fucking rocks.


I have infinity minis, I'm in the process of painting them but haven't played the game yet.

If the weaker races aren't very popular (orks)


ahahahha....what. Orks are the third most selling 40k army.
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
October 13 2013 22:31 GMT
#36
To be honest if Warhammer isn't a truly competitive game, ie most people collect or play for fun, it's fine if it's not very well balanced. Just a random guess tho, i dont know how big the competitive scene is.
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
Aunvilgod
Profile Joined December 2011
2653 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-13 23:53:15
October 13 2013 23:51 GMT
#37
Ultramar kicked your ass lol

And Tau kicks Ultramars ass.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=36&topic_id=431940

Well GW is constantly fucking with the rules and is making new codicies OP (at least the case around 08 09 10 imo) so yeah not really about balance. Although the randomness of the dices kind of balances it out.
ilovegroov | Blizzards mapmaker(s?) suck ass | #1 Protoss hater
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
October 14 2013 01:46 GMT
#38
my army is finished painted etc.. pictures SOON! ! ! ! can't wait.. been in the works for 1.5 months.
SilentchiLL
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany1405 Posts
October 14 2013 05:05 GMT
#39
On October 14 2013 10:46 iNcontroL wrote:
my army is finished painted etc.. pictures SOON! ! ! ! can't wait.. been in the works for 1.5 months.


Do you know the biggest reason why I want to see those pictures?
Incontrol always looks big when he's in a room with others, but with an army of little dudes under him he will look like a fucking GIANT.
It's like NASL with Gretorp all over again!
possum, sed nolo - Real men play random. ___ "Who the fuck is Kyle?!" C*****EX
Godwrath
Profile Joined August 2012
Spain10131 Posts
October 14 2013 16:22 GMT
#40
On October 14 2013 07:31 Teoita wrote:
To be honest if Warhammer isn't a truly competitive game, ie most people collect or play for fun, it's fine if it's not very well balanced. Just a random guess tho, i dont know how big the competitive scene is.

At some point (5th) it was a decent game to play for the competion, every army could give a run for your money they just were harder/easier to play. After the grey knight codex (which imho was the worst piece of crap ever released on wh40k) the list building possibilities were cut by half for other armies, or rendered useless (see elda, nids, DE or demons) wgich is really vad to the deepness of the game when it came to take all comers and tournament. After that, they are doing what you say, they are a ninuature company and the rules just exist so you can get them off the shelves from time to timw. Luckily for wargamers there still plenty of products out there with good mechanichs and communicative game designera.
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
October 14 2013 17:01 GMT
#41
The game isn't "balanced" at all but there are people that find ways to win big(ish) tourneys with a majority of the races. There is something like 11 races and 3x that more in factions / variations of some of the races (mostly Space marines). It's kind of like fighting games in that there certainly are tiers to the races but the lowest tier still appear and can do some work. 6th edition is usually considered a bad edition from what I read/see but each new codex and addendum is working in the right direction.
Godwrath
Profile Joined August 2012
Spain10131 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-14 19:06:59
October 14 2013 18:48 GMT
#42
Check NOVA results incontrol. You will see a pattern there, and no new codex is changing it, every one of them is trumping already functional army lists severely gimping variety (and i hate the term codex creep and had been against it for a long long time, but certainly it has been that way with eldar tau and sm).

Anyways, i am too negative right now about 40k (had been playing since 2edition, you can guess how invested i had been on this game), so i will quit posting in this blogpost to shit on 40k, apologize for any inconvenience because i can bet some of you are still having a lot of fun with it, and the more power to you. I will just answer build specific or tactics if you have any doubt, i already wrote up answers to your questions in the first page

Cheers.
Kaal
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Djibouti2539 Posts
October 15 2013 02:20 GMT
#43
Well, the balance doesn't really matter, every competitive player has about 6 lists if not more that he plays. It's all about player skill and match up knowledge. It's the same thing in warmahordes, Heavy Gear and battletech.
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
October 15 2013 02:50 GMT
#44
For sure tau, eldar and daemons are the most winning races atm with some appearances from grey knights and the allied forces obv of chaos/daemons and tau/eldar.

That said in the bay area we still see some other races placing highly and doing ok. The game is NOT balanced of course.. and various editions piss of X player with X race but I think it is "close" enough that I can as a Tyranid player go into this and think that with good knowledge and execution I can be fine (also a lot of luck!). Going to have fun Excited about the new codex because the rumors are a lot of buffs for Tyranids (better anti air, some buffs to the big bugs like invul saves and tyranid specific warlord traits/psyonic powers).
Sejanus
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Lithuania550 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-15 07:32:08
October 15 2013 07:19 GMT
#45

Hey guys! I commissioned www.frontlinegaming.org to paint my Tyranids army and it is nearly complete.

Hi. Not a good timing, since they release a new codex in January 2014 and your army list may become not competitive or even downright illegal If I was you I wouldn't worry much about the questions you asked until I see the new codex. Hell, I already stopped theorycrafting for my Imperial Guard even if they get rereleased only in April.

Not sure why you call 6ed bad, I like almost every change they made, with the exception of totally random charge range. Overwatch? Awesome. Better balanced vehicles? Awesome, got tired of meltavets already. Flyers? Ummm... they are OK I guess... Missions? Good, with an exception of relic, I hate that one. Removing models closest to the fire source? Awesome!

What don't you like about 6th?
Friends don't let friends massacre civilians
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
October 15 2013 08:02 GMT
#46
On October 15 2013 16:19 Sejanus wrote:
Show nested quote +

Hey guys! I commissioned www.frontlinegaming.org to paint my Tyranids army and it is nearly complete.

Hi. Not a good timing, since they release a new codex in January 2014 and your army list may become not competitive or even downright illegal If I was you I wouldn't worry much about the questions you asked until I see the new codex. Hell, I already stopped theorycrafting for my Imperial Guard even if they get rereleased only in April.

Not sure why you call 6ed bad, I like almost every change they made, with the exception of totally random charge range. Overwatch? Awesome. Better balanced vehicles? Awesome, got tired of meltavets already. Flyers? Ummm... they are OK I guess... Missions? Good, with an exception of relic, I hate that one. Removing models closest to the fire source? Awesome!

What don't you like about 6th?


I own more than just a specific army list lol.. I have all the models 3-4x over and then 30-40 each of terma/horma and genestealers. Thanks for your concern though!
Sejanus
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Lithuania550 Posts
October 15 2013 08:22 GMT
#47
I have all the models 3-4x over and then 30-40 each of terma/horma and genestealers.


Good timing, then! :D
Friends don't let friends massacre civilians
Irratonalys
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany902 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-15 09:38:00
October 15 2013 09:37 GMT
#48
I play dark eldar. im in constant pain.

jokes aside, i have a decent 1850 points list, but that everyones now fielding 3+ fliers per FOC is killing me.
The futures uncertain , but the end is always near
Godwrath
Profile Joined August 2012
Spain10131 Posts
October 15 2013 14:33 GMT
#49
Yep the nid dex is around the corner. I am actually waiting for it to see if i give the game another try later on, since i left after the tau codex (i played tau). But i actually hope you can play with shit tons of hormagants, raveners and the like :D
Wampaibist
Profile Joined July 2010
United States478 Posts
October 17 2013 17:37 GMT
#50
play any fantasy as well? I never played 40k but I loved my skaven
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
October 17 2013 20:22 GMT
#51
Personally I think Genestealers (even Ymgarl) are in a bit of an awkward spot right now, may want to repurpose that elite slot. Venomthropes are good units to cover your back shooty line or even move with your Termi/Tervi blob.

But yeah, with the new Codex in a couple months it's a bit iffy altogether, meta might shift soon anyway
It's your boy Guzma!
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
October 17 2013 21:55 GMT
#52
Yeah I just swapped them out. In my first two play test games they didn't come in at impactful times and one of the instances they did damn near nothing haha. Cool in theory I guess!

my list dropped 1 tervigon/ymgarls and instead put in a trygon prime and 20 hormagants

I also dropped 1 flyrant and I am trying out a Swarmlord
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
October 17 2013 22:28 GMT
#53
Are you running Tyrant Guard with your Swarmlord? It's a bit risky to footslog him without support.
It's your boy Guzma!
.AK
Profile Joined September 2010
United States561 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-17 23:24:58
October 17 2013 23:21 GMT
#54
On October 18 2013 06:55 iNcontroL wrote:
Yeah I just swapped them out. In my first two play test games they didn't come in at impactful times and one of the instances they did damn near nothing haha. Cool in theory I guess!

my list dropped 1 tervigon/ymgarls and instead put in a trygon prime and 20 hormagants

I also dropped 1 flyrant and I am trying out a Swarmlord

The Swarmlord is kick ass, only unit in the game that can one shot Dragowing haha
Also, TL really needs an official Warhammer/Wargaming thread.
All hail the glorious I sell T.Vs at Best Buy || #1 REQUIZEN FANBOI || IGN: .AK/BEST ANTIMAGE NA || Plat IV ADC Main
SilentchiLL
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany1405 Posts
October 18 2013 08:15 GMT
#55
On October 18 2013 08:21 .AK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2013 06:55 iNcontroL wrote:
Yeah I just swapped them out. In my first two play test games they didn't come in at impactful times and one of the instances they did damn near nothing haha. Cool in theory I guess!

my list dropped 1 tervigon/ymgarls and instead put in a trygon prime and 20 hormagants

I also dropped 1 flyrant and I am trying out a Swarmlord

The Swarmlord is kick ass, only unit in the game that can one shot Dragowing haha
Also, TL really needs an official Warhammer/Wargaming thread.


I'd make one, but I have no idea about it :D.
possum, sed nolo - Real men play random. ___ "Who the fuck is Kyle?!" C*****EX
Sejanus
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Lithuania550 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-18 09:08:58
October 18 2013 09:08 GMT
#56

Also, TL really needs an official Warhammer/Wargaming thread.

Something similar to LoL forums
Friends don't let friends massacre civilians
amazingxkcd
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
October 18 2013 15:12 GMT
#57
If you want to play competitively, why didn't you pick either deathwing or black templars then?
The world is burning and you rather be on this terrible website discussing video games and your shallow feelings
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
October 18 2013 19:07 GMT
#58
On October 19 2013 00:12 amazingxkcd wrote:
If you want to play competitively, why didn't you pick either deathwing or black templars then?


I'm guessing you don't play atm? Neither of those armies are the top tier.. but responding on a more broad level "because I can"
Dubzex
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6994 Posts
October 18 2013 19:31 GMT
#59
Have you considered streaming your in house matches if you play at home?
"DONT UNDERESTIMATE MY CARRY OR YOU WILL BE CARRIED INTO THE ABYSS OF SUFFERING" - Tyler 'TC' Cook
haduken
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Australia8267 Posts
October 19 2013 06:05 GMT
#60
Did you pick tyrannid for the zerg connection lol

Used to play this game religiously when I was a teen, then stopped after finding starcraft.

Was never competitive because you need a complete army list to compete, and the important stuff all cost too much $$ for a teenager.
Rillanon.au
Godwrath
Profile Joined August 2012
Spain10131 Posts
October 19 2013 07:33 GMT
#61
On October 19 2013 04:07 iNcontroL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2013 00:12 amazingxkcd wrote:
If you want to play competitively, why didn't you pick either deathwing or black templars then?


I'm guessing you don't play atm? Neither of those armies are the top tier.. but responding on a more broad level "because I can"

I thought he was being sarcastic, since you picked up nids.
NarutO
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Germany18839 Posts
October 19 2013 15:13 GMT
#62
Will you be posting pictures of your set? I am not really into Warhammer, but I am into artworks and I feel custom painted WH40k figures are a piece of art so I would enjoy having some good shots of them

good luck if you are going to play tournaments!
CommentatorPolt | MMA | Jjakji | BoxeR | NaDa | MVP | MKP ... truly inspiring.
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-19 16:26:54
October 19 2013 16:26 GMT
#63
Hey post those pics already!

I havnt played war40k since middle school but I used to love painting the models
Are necrons still any good?

GL in any tournies you might compete in
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
October 19 2013 16:29 GMT
#64
I've been collecting Crons, they're still quite good. Some less than great units, but overall strong imo.
It's your boy Guzma!
HumpingHydra
Profile Joined November 2008
Canada97 Posts
October 27 2013 07:21 GMT
#65
This thread was a portal of nostalgia back to when I played painted 40k tyranids and played with the models like they were toy army men and didn't have a clue about actual rules of the game. I decided to look for my 40K models to see if they were still around, sure enough, In a dusty Black n Decker toolbox I found all my models and my brothers imperial guard. I dug them out set them up and looked at them. My poor 10 year old painting skills were horrendous. Still debating whether or not I have time to persue maybe adding a couple models and painting them for fun. Thanks incontrol for the trip down memory lane. Your nids look very nice.

I would like to see this thread remain active. Continually post content please!!!

PS. Why am I perma-banned in your stream chat? Oh well. You're my favourite SC player/personality. :'(
For the Swarm!
Tchado
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Jordan1831 Posts
December 21 2013 17:58 GMT
#66
@Incontrol

Are you into the Warhammer 40K : Dawn of War series ? if yes what do you think of those games ? what do you prefer , the classic games or the Dow 2 series ?
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