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On August 15 2013 10:30 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 10:05 TotalBiscuit wrote:On August 15 2013 09:54 JimmiC wrote:"Moral of the Story : When communication fails, there are no winners. " Well put, very professional response and explanation. I feel like you will get very little hate. I do think it would be wise for you to separate TB from the team. He seems good at generating attention. I don't think it's the attention thats good for the team, might grab him some more followers. But I digress. I think your post was excellent, and you lived your sentiment by communicating and not simply flaming those who don't know everything. Better to inform then flame. JimmiC you're an idiot and you did nothing but lie and flame your way through 8 pages of drivel in the other thread, somehow I don't think we're gonna be taking you too seriously. The champ of insulting possible fans shows up and undermines what the team manager is doing. Pure class. I'm guessing this is one of those opposites attract things? TB thought pattern *quick this thread is about the team and not me. I better hijack it and make it about me. I'm awesome, just ask me* And for the 38th time I never insulted the team just you. I also said it would be great if some one just responded informatively and professionally and she did. So as much as I dislike you I'm adult enough to admit when some one does something well. I thought I was going to have to change my opinion, but lucky you fly in and act like a dink. If you read that thread out side a couple of your fans most people agree with me and not you. But whatever floats your boats bud. Keep on keeping on and I hope some day you no longer feel the need to overcompensate for whatever it is that you hate about yourself. And can just be a decent dude. You have a large following (no idea why) it would be pretty cool if you set a good a example.
You can't be fucking serious? Not only did you post numerous fallacies, you also seem to have a warped sense of reality. There's a difference between having a different opinion than TB and agreeing with you and there were far more people supporting him than supporting you in that thread... You keep playing martyr/victim for no good reason.
As for his following, maybe you should actually take 5 seconds to actually do some research into what he really does for a living. A hint: it's not being a caster for sc2 or Axiom related, that's basically his hobbies.
Also there's other values than to pander to "possible fans." You know like honesty.
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On August 15 2013 14:04 geokilla wrote:I will admit, I haven't read everything in the OP as it's fairly long. However, I still believe better choices could have been made. But since I'm not the team owner, and I recall reading that most of the team is physically unfit to play, there's no point in forcing the players to play either. Axiom and its players still has my support though, like they always do. Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 11:12 renaissanceMAN wrote:On August 15 2013 11:10 mark05 wrote:
we could do a fundraiser to help ax go ? or too late? Too late, and most people have already probably volunteered some $ towards MVP. And they deserve it if the community feels that they deserve it. However, I don't think Axiom deserves any money from us/me, simply because TotalBiscuit fired shots at MVP and basically called them beggars.
So Axiom doesn't deserve any money because semantics? He called it begging instead of fundraising and his point wasn't even directed toward MVP if you try to actually read his post objectively. You don't have to give them your money but it's kind of funny how that is how you judge who "deserves" it or not.
Not that it would be hard for them to do it. If TB posted a video asking for travel money on his channel and some fundraising stream he'd get it. Maybe try thinking about why he didn't instead.
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the reason to skip this team league offline final for ANOTHER team league offline final is a poor excuse and im surprised take is already inviting them back for next season, you make a commitment, you stick to it
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On August 15 2013 16:33 PviLLe3 wrote:
the reason to skip this team league offline final for ANOTHER team league offline final is a poor excuse and im surprised take is already inviting them back for next season, you make a commitment, you stick to it
So what happened here is that Mrs Bain posted a thorough, detailed overview of the process that lead to them cancelling their showing in the offline finals. This post listed multiple reasons and made it clear that there was not a single reason that lead to them cancelling but rather a combination of circumstances and miscommunication.
Then you come in, cherry-pick one reason out of this huge post, blatantly ignore all the rest, and scold Axiom because they skipped this final for that single reason. Which obviously does not make sense in the slightest.
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I can't blame anyone for not finding out through the announcement that travel compensation was not fully paid as I myself (who followed the league very closely) was under the impression that it was. I don't know why exactly that was, whether I heard conflicting statements or if that was something my mind made up, but it appeared to be very unusual to me that TaKeTV could afford to do that or Acer wanted to afford that, respectively. It was until the very end when Musicus informed me that it would be otherwise.
I hoped Axiom would know more as they were between the four directly invited teams. But I guess my faith in team-to-league communications was misplaced as Millenium and MVP didn't even know that there would be a second season half. And more so, the whole Karont3 story.
It seems that Axiom was expecting everything would be covered because of the precedent IPTL set. But relying on that... wasn't good. I am not hating here, but from someone that follows e-sports I expect that this is the one of the first things team managers check independent of whether the information was provided initially or not before they accept or decline an invitation.
From someone that followed e-sports for a long time, full travel compensation by the league/tournament is not something I automatically assume (although for some reason, I did in ATC). I remember when in WC3 World Elite under Reis had to win the whole NGL One to cover the cost. Full travel compensation became more as a thing that came to SC2 with the rivalry of MLG and IPL in 2011/12. I know I heard voices in Germany that paying these would be unreasonable and part of the team's job. And with the departure of the IPL and with MLG's lesser investment in SC2, teams will probably have to do without the travel support in the long run.
I was expecting for the teams to find out whether there would be full coverage or not over the modalities of such a coverage as in, how many players exactly will you cover, is the team manager/coach included and how much earlier can the team arrive in the destination. For example, I did never expect TakeTV/Acer to cover the travel of every MVP member, so MVP should have been informed early on about the details of the arrangement.
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Good write-up. The bright side: I doubt this will happen to you again.
But please make a less sensationalist title next time^^.
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On August 15 2013 16:45 Stijn wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 16:33 PviLLe3 wrote:
the reason to skip this team league offline final for ANOTHER team league offline final is a poor excuse and im surprised take is already inviting them back for next season, you make a commitment, you stick to it So what happened here is that Mrs Bain posted a thorough, detailed overview of the process that lead to them cancelling their showing in the offline finals. This post listed multiple reasons and made it clear that there was not a single reason that lead to them cancelling but rather a combination of circumstances and miscommunication. Then you come in, cherry-pick one reason out of this huge post, blatantly ignore all the rest, and scold Axiom because they skipped this final for that single reason. Which obviously does not make sense in the slightest.
let me state im actually a huge fan of TB/GB/ and axiom in general
i was just picking the most obvious one that doesnt really make sense but ill pick some others if you wish.
stated they are dropping out due to TWO other tournaments(that im assuming they committed to AFTER this)
said they are dropping out due to a members fatigue(unfortunate but it happens)
said the cost of sending 6 people to WCS america, one to ASUS ROG, and another to MLG was way more funding than they expected, this one actually bugs me the most. they have 6 koreans, living in korea, playing in WCS NA where they know if many of them qualify that can be up to 4 flights every few months. no one forced them to play WCS NA
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Just going to reiterate here again for those who might not have read my previous comment. When we were invited, there was no mention of any offline portion. None. You can read our invitation email, the rules, etc., not one word said a thing about an offline finals. If they had said "oh and we will have an offline final", I'd have asked for info about compensation. However, since it was added after the fact, I assumed no organizer would spring an offline finals on teams that had already accepted an invitation unless they were the ones paying for the flights.
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manager shoulda asked this sort of thing. it isnt a given man.
i mean this is the job of a manager after all. i guess this is a learning experience
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Pretty bad, but i guess that is this whole mess with the "modern communication ways" email, skype, reddit, twitter, facebook whatever. You have so many ways to communicate and non with the exception of a solid email including all relevant information and a good old phone call really work.
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On August 15 2013 18:09 Kingsky wrote:
manager shoulda asked this sort of thing. it isnt a given man.
i mean this is the job of a manager after all. i guess this is a learning experience
My feeling also. When they found out that final is offline management should have confirmed costs covered.
Likewise the tournament should have notified this.
A learning experience all around.
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On August 15 2013 17:03 PviLLe3 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 16:45 Stijn wrote:On August 15 2013 16:33 PviLLe3 wrote:
the reason to skip this team league offline final for ANOTHER team league offline final is a poor excuse and im surprised take is already inviting them back for next season, you make a commitment, you stick to it So what happened here is that Mrs Bain posted a thorough, detailed overview of the process that lead to them cancelling their showing in the offline finals. This post listed multiple reasons and made it clear that there was not a single reason that lead to them cancelling but rather a combination of circumstances and miscommunication. Then you come in, cherry-pick one reason out of this huge post, blatantly ignore all the rest, and scold Axiom because they skipped this final for that single reason. Which obviously does not make sense in the slightest. let me state im actually a huge fan of TB/GB/ and axiom in general i was just picking the most obvious one that doesnt really make sense but ill pick some others if you wish. stated they are dropping out due to TWO other tournaments(that im assuming they committed to AFTER this) said they are dropping out due to a members fatigue(unfortunate but it happens) said the cost of sending 6 people to WCS america, one to ASUS ROG, and another to MLG was way more funding than they expected, this one actually bugs me the most. they have 6 koreans, living in korea, playing in WCS NA where they know if many of them qualify that can be up to 4 flights every few months. no one forced them to play WCS NA
Actually, I read the WCS one as "had we known that WCS NA would come along and had we known that ATC does not fully reimburse the travel expenses for the offline finals, we would have canceled our participation in one of the events, knowing that our players cannot travel to both should they advance far enough."
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So you just assumed that your travel and hotels would be paid for 5 or more players.
Well that was pretty stupid and its entirely on you, you just posted a load of other circumstantial rubbish that is completely irrelevant when you consider that.
When you assume you make an ass out of u and me. Ass|U|Me
Everything comes down to the fact that they didnt mention your tickets WOULDNT be paid for so you just assumed they WOULD be? Really? rofl.
I guess you live and learn but still, you should learn these things long before you own an international business.
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On August 15 2013 17:29 Intricacy wrote:
Just going to reiterate here again for those who might not have read my previous comment. When we were invited, there was no mention of any offline portion. None. You can read our invitation email, the rules, etc., not one word said a thing about an offline finals. If they had said "oh and we will have an offline final", I'd have asked for info about compensation. However, since it was added after the fact, I assumed no organizer would spring an offline finals on teams that had already accepted an invitation unless they were the ones paying for the flights.
Noted.
It's great to see a community figure make such an effort to clarify a situation like this Intricacy (lol @ the polite, sweet but also slightly sexist "mrs bains" in the thread). I personally don't care who's to blame for this; It's obvious that there is no malicious intent from any of the parties involved and that should be the only thing that matters. It's probably a good idea though to not announce something like this in a short tweet, better to post an article here or on reddit (preferably here because I don't do reddit; I live in a 17 stories high apartment building). One of the thoughts that popped in my mind while reading the tweet, besides "oh shit, Axiom isn't attending the ATC" and "Uh oh, shit storm incoming" was "reason(s)?". Anyway, I wish you and your team, particularly CranK, all the best and I hope other organizations take note of the way you, ultimately, handled this thing.
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On August 15 2013 17:29 Intricacy wrote:
Just going to reiterate here again for those who might not have read my previous comment. When we were invited, there was no mention of any offline portion. None. You can read our invitation email, the rules, etc., not one word said a thing about an offline finals. If they had said "oh and we will have an offline final", I'd have asked for info about compensation. However, since it was added after the fact, I assumed no organizer would spring an offline finals on teams that had already accepted an invitation unless they were the ones paying for the flights.
It says in the first mail you quoted,
The team league will start at around ~15. march(not fix yet!) and
culminate in fantastic finals at the TakeTV studio.
To be honest it sounds realy strange that no one connected with your team knew about the compensation and mentioned it..
Nevertheless, glad to see such transparency, mistakes were made on both ends but it would be the best if you would not argue for ur case anymore, leaves a bad taste.
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On August 15 2013 17:29 Intricacy wrote:
Just going to reiterate here again for those who might not have read my previous comment. When we were invited, there was no mention of any offline portion. None. You can read our invitation email, the rules, etc., not one word said a thing about an offline finals. If they had said "oh and we will have an offline final", I'd have asked for info about compensation. However, since it was added after the fact, I assumed no organizer would spring an offline finals on teams that had already accepted an invitation unless they were the ones paying for the flights.
erm, it says that in the first email?
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On August 15 2013 18:46 Penev wrote:lol @ the polite, sweet but also slightly sexist "mrs bains" in the thread
...sexist?
I felt weird saying "Intricacy" since that's not how she's usually referred to as far as I've seen, and "Genna" sounded way too intimate. I'd never refer to TotalBiscuit as "John" either, but he's usually called by his nickname. Leaves "Mrs Bain", nothing sexist about that 
On another note, pretty much all of Take's broadcasts are live from the TakeTV studios, even when he's just casting an online tournament or replays, so that e-mail didn't necessarily say much.
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On August 15 2013 18:58 graan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 17:29 Intricacy wrote:
Just going to reiterate here again for those who might not have read my previous comment. When we were invited, there was no mention of any offline portion. None. You can read our invitation email, the rules, etc., not one word said a thing about an offline finals. If they had said "oh and we will have an offline final", I'd have asked for info about compensation. However, since it was added after the fact, I assumed no organizer would spring an offline finals on teams that had already accepted an invitation unless they were the ones paying for the flights. It says in the first mail you quoted, Show nested quote +The team league will start at around ~15. march(not fix yet!) and
culminate in fantastic finals at the TakeTV studio.
That could mean anything from "live from venue" to "filmed broadcast from replays."
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On August 15 2013 17:29 Intricacy wrote:
Just going to reiterate here again for those who might not have read my previous comment. When we were invited, there was no mention of any offline portion. None. You can read our invitation email, the rules, etc., not one word said a thing about an offline finals. If they had said "oh and we will have an offline final", I'd have asked for info about compensation. However, since it was added after the fact, I assumed no organizer would spring an offline finals on teams that had already accepted an invitation unless they were the ones paying for the flights.
Quoting the first email:
TaKeTV will start a european Teamleague.
The team league will start at around ~15. march(not fix yet!) and
culminate in fantastic finals at the TakeTV studio.
The studio is in Krefeld Germany; I guess you know this since you mention you know the HSC. Makes pretty clear there is an offline portion.
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On August 15 2013 19:20 NHY wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 18:58 graan wrote:On August 15 2013 17:29 Intricacy wrote:
Just going to reiterate here again for those who might not have read my previous comment. When we were invited, there was no mention of any offline portion. None. You can read our invitation email, the rules, etc., not one word said a thing about an offline finals. If they had said "oh and we will have an offline final", I'd have asked for info about compensation. However, since it was added after the fact, I assumed no organizer would spring an offline finals on teams that had already accepted an invitation unless they were the ones paying for the flights. It says in the first mail you quoted, The team league will start at around ~15. march(not fix yet!) and
culminate in fantastic finals at the TakeTV studio. That could mean anything from "live from venue" to "filmed broadcast from replays."
That is nonsense. If you say, the finals are at a studio it is clear they are not from replays unless it is MLG.
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EPT
