• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:10
CEST 21:10
KST 04:10
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments0[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence10Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12
Community News
BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch0Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups4WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments1SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia8Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues29
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.15 PTR Patch Notes #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy SpeCial on The Tasteless Podcast
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
ASL20 General Discussion Soulkey on ASL S20 BW General Discussion ASL TICKET LIVE help! :D NaDa's Body
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [ASL20] Ro16 Group D [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Ro16 Group C
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Borderlands 3 Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine UK Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
i'm really bored guys
Peanutsc
I <=> 9
KrillinFromwales
The Personality of a Spender…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2263 users

Some Protoss Gas Timings

Blogs > SC2John
Post a Reply
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
August 02 2013 22:25 GMT
#1
Protoss gas timings are perhaps more complicated and interesting than gas timings of any other race. The key thing about protoss gas is that there are several ways to accumulate the same amount of gas with minimal to no effect on the economy of the protoss player. (Sidenote: this is primarily due to the fact that building a geyser does not sacrifice the mining time of a worker).

In most modern protoss builds, protoss players want exactly 200 gas around 3:50-4:00 in order to make a stalker, a MsC, and warp gate all at the same time when the core finishes. There are several ways to get there, let's explore:

1) gas before gate:
+ Show Spoiler +
-9 pylon
-12 gas
-13 gate
**Chronoboost x3 on nexus**
-16 pylon
-18 core
-21 pylon
~200 gas mined @4:00

Although quite rare, this is a fun way to metagame someone who isn't paying attention with their scouting probe. The key here is that you appear to only have 1 geyser and look like you're gearing up for 4-gate/fast 1-gate expand, but in actuality, you're just doing a normal build. In some ways, this build is nice against cheese because if you spot it early on you can save chronoboosts. All in all, a fun way to change things up a little in your gameplay.


2) delayed second geyser:
+ Show Spoiler +
-9 pylon
**Chonoboost x3 on nexus**
-13 gate
-14 gas
-16/17 pylon
-18 core
-19 gas
-25 pylon
~200 gas mined @4:00

Perhaps the second most common after 15 double gas, this build is very flexible and allows you to make changes on the fly if you scout cheese. You can save a chronoboost and the money you were going to spend on your second gas on an early zealot instead and be safe against things like proxy rax, proxy 2-gate, etc.


3) 16 double gas:
+ Show Spoiler +
-9 pylon
**Chronoboost x3 on nexus**
-13 gate
-16 double gas
**3 on each gas**
-17 pylon
-18 core
-25 pylon
~200 gas mined @4:00

This build is almost the same as 15 double gas except that you just delay the geysers by a little bit to consolidate your mineral income then catch up in gas by putting 3 in each geyser. Again, because you delay gases, you can respond to cheese a little bit better.


4) 15 double gas:
+ Show Spoiler +
-9 pylon
**Chronoboost x3 on nexus**
-13 gate
-15 double gas
**2 on each gas**
-17 pylon
-18 core
**Add 3 on each gas**
-25 pylon
~200 gas mined @4:00

Probably the most standard opening for protoss is 15 double gas. This build is really versatile and transitions well into anything. If you decide to go for an early expand, you can leave 2 in the geysers and get a later stalker. If you want to tech up quickly, you can add in a 3rd probe at each geyser to get the gas income you need. It's just very mutable and very flexible.





***
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
Shebuha
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1335 Posts
August 03 2013 01:15 GMT
#2
Like 2 years ago i used to do gas before gate into DT against Terran and Zerg... shit was ballinnnnnnnn'. I'd like to experiment with that again... Thanks for the info's!
FakeDouble
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia676 Posts
August 03 2013 05:16 GMT
#3
Thanks for this, nice and succinct, showing that many openings can funnel into a common point (200g @ 4min). I don't play P much (unless I feel like rolling random every so often), but I never felt that scouting the P main gave me any insight into what they were going to do and this is why I guess. The timing on the nat, and the gas timing at the nat seems like more useful info when scouting a P.

I guess the corollary is that regardless of which of these openings they do, they can transition to any tech choice and unit composition
Formerly known as carbonaceous
iMrising
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
United States1099 Posts
August 03 2013 05:33 GMT
#4
oo nice of you to share this
just a curious question, which one do you like/use?
$O$ | soO
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
August 03 2013 06:34 GMT
#5
On August 03 2013 10:15 Shebuha wrote:
Like 2 years ago i used to do gas before gate into DT against Terran and Zerg... shit was ballinnnnnnnn'. I'd like to experiment with that again... Thanks for the info's!


Haha, nice! Yeah, I haven't used this opener much, but it seems like it might be a lot of fun to meta my opponents.

On August 03 2013 14:16 FakeDouble wrote:
Thanks for this, nice and succinct, showing that many openings can funnel into a common point (200g @ 4min). I don't play P much (unless I feel like rolling random every so often), but I never felt that scouting the P main gave me any insight into what they were going to do and this is why I guess. The timing on the nat, and the gas timing at the nat seems like more useful info when scouting a P.

I guess the corollary is that regardless of which of these openings they do, they can transition to any tech choice and unit composition


That's true. I think the most important things to scout against P are 1) whether or not they make a zealot, 2) how quickly their expansion is, and 3) how many pylons are in the base. An early zealot almost always means early aggression (generally a zealot/stalker/MsC poke). Also, the other very important timing for protoss is 6:30 (in PvT/PvP); this is the point where protoss tech diverges into either robo, stargate, or early gateway aggression. The gases at the natural are also really good indicators of what's coming.

On August 03 2013 14:33 iMrising wrote:
oo nice of you to share this
just a curious question, which one do you like/use?


I generally stick to 15 double gas. The reason for this is that it's just very flexible and hard to read and also prevents gas steals. In a BoX series, I believe it's best to stick with only one type of gas opening because it makes your opponent very unsure of what they're up against.
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
Esoterikk
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1256 Posts
August 03 2013 07:43 GMT
#6
I always thought with 1 gate expo you went with one geyser am I wrong? This could explain a lot of why I get dunked so early.
PandaTank
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
South Africa255 Posts
August 03 2013 07:43 GMT
#7
If you're not lazy, you can 13 gate, 14 gas, 15 gas. Which will give you a slight advantage(4-8 gas) over double 15gas without any loss.
facebook.com/PandaTank \\\ @PandaTankSC2
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-03 07:53:15
August 03 2013 07:47 GMT
#8
On August 03 2013 16:43 PandaTank wrote:
If you're not lazy, you can 13 gate, 14 gas, 15 gas. Which will give you a slight advantage(4-8 gas) over double 15gas without any loss.


I see what you mean. Yeah, I generally rally to the geyser and build them one at a time instead of pooling money. But I just call it the same thing because I feel like it essentially adds up to the same thing, just a more efficient way of doing it.

On August 03 2013 16:43 Esoterikk wrote:
I always thought with 1 gate expo you went with one geyser am I wrong? This could explain a lot of why I get dunked so early.


In WoL, you wanted to only get 1 geyser because you only needed 100 gas when your core finished. In HotS, it's generally more efficient to have MsC/stalker/warpgate start early and get your nexus down just a tad bit later. That said, MsC expand is far safer and stronger than the old WoL expands like nexus on 17 and nexus first. Here's a link to another blog post I wrote about FE in PvT:

http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=422990
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
kornetka
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Poland129 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-03 18:38:41
August 03 2013 18:38 GMT
#9
My gas timings revolves around big ass farts when I see opponent's army.
broodwar for ever
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 14h 50m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
UpATreeSC 322
mouzHeroMarine 239
SteadfastSC 224
IndyStarCraft 128
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 19536
EffOrt 724
Mini 652
Soulkey 120
Dewaltoss 89
ggaemo 88
Larva 72
sas.Sziky 40
Aegong 30
Hyun 29
[ Show more ]
scan(afreeca) 26
Sexy 14
Dota 2
qojqva4822
Fuzer 226
Counter-Strike
fl0m1248
flusha98
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King42
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu335
Other Games
Sick2394
FrodaN2105
Beastyqt576
mouzStarbuck228
Hui .203
C9.Mang0134
QueenE64
Trikslyr56
NeuroSwarm38
MindelVK7
ToD6
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Reevou 5
• davetesta1
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki20
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 4096
• WagamamaTV662
League of Legends
• Nemesis2873
• TFBlade883
Other Games
• imaqtpie707
• Shiphtur216
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
14h 50m
Zoun vs Classic
Map Test Tournament
15h 50m
Korean StarCraft League
1d 7h
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
1d 12h
RSL Revival
1d 14h
Reynor vs Cure
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Online Event
2 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
LiuLi Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-10
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL World Championship of Poland 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.