• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 07:27
CET 13:27
KST 21:27
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies1ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !10Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Micro Lags When Playing SC2? When will we find out if there are more tournament Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win
Tourneys
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $100 Prize Pool - Winter Warp Gate Masters Showdow Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1 RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14!
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement
Brood War
General
soO on: FanTaSy's Potential Return to StarCraft BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Klaucher discontinued / in-game color settings Anyone remember me from 2000s Bnet EAST server? How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months
Tourneys
[BSL21] LB QuarterFinals - Sunday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] WB SEMIFINALS - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
The (Hidden) Drug Problem in…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1622 users

Some Protoss Gas Timings

Blogs > SC2John
Post a Reply
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
August 02 2013 22:25 GMT
#1
Protoss gas timings are perhaps more complicated and interesting than gas timings of any other race. The key thing about protoss gas is that there are several ways to accumulate the same amount of gas with minimal to no effect on the economy of the protoss player. (Sidenote: this is primarily due to the fact that building a geyser does not sacrifice the mining time of a worker).

In most modern protoss builds, protoss players want exactly 200 gas around 3:50-4:00 in order to make a stalker, a MsC, and warp gate all at the same time when the core finishes. There are several ways to get there, let's explore:

1) gas before gate:
+ Show Spoiler +
-9 pylon
-12 gas
-13 gate
**Chronoboost x3 on nexus**
-16 pylon
-18 core
-21 pylon
~200 gas mined @4:00

Although quite rare, this is a fun way to metagame someone who isn't paying attention with their scouting probe. The key here is that you appear to only have 1 geyser and look like you're gearing up for 4-gate/fast 1-gate expand, but in actuality, you're just doing a normal build. In some ways, this build is nice against cheese because if you spot it early on you can save chronoboosts. All in all, a fun way to change things up a little in your gameplay.


2) delayed second geyser:
+ Show Spoiler +
-9 pylon
**Chonoboost x3 on nexus**
-13 gate
-14 gas
-16/17 pylon
-18 core
-19 gas
-25 pylon
~200 gas mined @4:00

Perhaps the second most common after 15 double gas, this build is very flexible and allows you to make changes on the fly if you scout cheese. You can save a chronoboost and the money you were going to spend on your second gas on an early zealot instead and be safe against things like proxy rax, proxy 2-gate, etc.


3) 16 double gas:
+ Show Spoiler +
-9 pylon
**Chronoboost x3 on nexus**
-13 gate
-16 double gas
**3 on each gas**
-17 pylon
-18 core
-25 pylon
~200 gas mined @4:00

This build is almost the same as 15 double gas except that you just delay the geysers by a little bit to consolidate your mineral income then catch up in gas by putting 3 in each geyser. Again, because you delay gases, you can respond to cheese a little bit better.


4) 15 double gas:
+ Show Spoiler +
-9 pylon
**Chronoboost x3 on nexus**
-13 gate
-15 double gas
**2 on each gas**
-17 pylon
-18 core
**Add 3 on each gas**
-25 pylon
~200 gas mined @4:00

Probably the most standard opening for protoss is 15 double gas. This build is really versatile and transitions well into anything. If you decide to go for an early expand, you can leave 2 in the geysers and get a later stalker. If you want to tech up quickly, you can add in a 3rd probe at each geyser to get the gas income you need. It's just very mutable and very flexible.





***
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
Shebuha
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1335 Posts
August 03 2013 01:15 GMT
#2
Like 2 years ago i used to do gas before gate into DT against Terran and Zerg... shit was ballinnnnnnnn'. I'd like to experiment with that again... Thanks for the info's!
FakeDouble
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia676 Posts
August 03 2013 05:16 GMT
#3
Thanks for this, nice and succinct, showing that many openings can funnel into a common point (200g @ 4min). I don't play P much (unless I feel like rolling random every so often), but I never felt that scouting the P main gave me any insight into what they were going to do and this is why I guess. The timing on the nat, and the gas timing at the nat seems like more useful info when scouting a P.

I guess the corollary is that regardless of which of these openings they do, they can transition to any tech choice and unit composition
Formerly known as carbonaceous
iMrising
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
United States1099 Posts
August 03 2013 05:33 GMT
#4
oo nice of you to share this
just a curious question, which one do you like/use?
$O$ | soO
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
August 03 2013 06:34 GMT
#5
On August 03 2013 10:15 Shebuha wrote:
Like 2 years ago i used to do gas before gate into DT against Terran and Zerg... shit was ballinnnnnnnn'. I'd like to experiment with that again... Thanks for the info's!


Haha, nice! Yeah, I haven't used this opener much, but it seems like it might be a lot of fun to meta my opponents.

On August 03 2013 14:16 FakeDouble wrote:
Thanks for this, nice and succinct, showing that many openings can funnel into a common point (200g @ 4min). I don't play P much (unless I feel like rolling random every so often), but I never felt that scouting the P main gave me any insight into what they were going to do and this is why I guess. The timing on the nat, and the gas timing at the nat seems like more useful info when scouting a P.

I guess the corollary is that regardless of which of these openings they do, they can transition to any tech choice and unit composition


That's true. I think the most important things to scout against P are 1) whether or not they make a zealot, 2) how quickly their expansion is, and 3) how many pylons are in the base. An early zealot almost always means early aggression (generally a zealot/stalker/MsC poke). Also, the other very important timing for protoss is 6:30 (in PvT/PvP); this is the point where protoss tech diverges into either robo, stargate, or early gateway aggression. The gases at the natural are also really good indicators of what's coming.

On August 03 2013 14:33 iMrising wrote:
oo nice of you to share this
just a curious question, which one do you like/use?


I generally stick to 15 double gas. The reason for this is that it's just very flexible and hard to read and also prevents gas steals. In a BoX series, I believe it's best to stick with only one type of gas opening because it makes your opponent very unsure of what they're up against.
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
Esoterikk
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1256 Posts
August 03 2013 07:43 GMT
#6
I always thought with 1 gate expo you went with one geyser am I wrong? This could explain a lot of why I get dunked so early.
PandaTank
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
South Africa255 Posts
August 03 2013 07:43 GMT
#7
If you're not lazy, you can 13 gate, 14 gas, 15 gas. Which will give you a slight advantage(4-8 gas) over double 15gas without any loss.
facebook.com/PandaTank \\\ @PandaTankSC2
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-03 07:53:15
August 03 2013 07:47 GMT
#8
On August 03 2013 16:43 PandaTank wrote:
If you're not lazy, you can 13 gate, 14 gas, 15 gas. Which will give you a slight advantage(4-8 gas) over double 15gas without any loss.


I see what you mean. Yeah, I generally rally to the geyser and build them one at a time instead of pooling money. But I just call it the same thing because I feel like it essentially adds up to the same thing, just a more efficient way of doing it.

On August 03 2013 16:43 Esoterikk wrote:
I always thought with 1 gate expo you went with one geyser am I wrong? This could explain a lot of why I get dunked so early.


In WoL, you wanted to only get 1 geyser because you only needed 100 gas when your core finished. In HotS, it's generally more efficient to have MsC/stalker/warpgate start early and get your nexus down just a tad bit later. That said, MsC expand is far safer and stronger than the old WoL expands like nexus on 17 and nexus first. Here's a link to another blog post I wrote about FE in PvT:

http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=422990
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
kornetka
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Poland129 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-03 18:38:41
August 03 2013 18:38 GMT
#9
My gas timings revolves around big ass farts when I see opponent's army.
broodwar for ever
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 23h 33m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko187
Livibee 118
Creator 92
SC2Nice 31
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 12749
Horang2 1381
firebathero 869
EffOrt 455
Mini 350
actioN 344
Sharp 290
ZerO 201
Snow 172
Rush 166
[ Show more ]
Light 132
Soma 120
ggaemo 113
Mind 107
hero 91
Killer 78
Barracks 65
Movie 60
JulyZerg 51
Sea.KH 46
ToSsGirL 46
Yoon 43
soO 30
Terrorterran 21
sorry 20
ajuk12(nOOB) 13
Noble 12
scan(afreeca) 11
Icarus 11
HiyA 7
Dota 2
XcaliburYe217
League of Legends
JimRising 328
C9.Mang0323
Counter-Strike
olofmeister2697
shoxiejesuss1079
x6flipin879
byalli421
zeus226
oskar130
edward11
Other Games
Fuzer 394
Pyrionflax142
Mew2King98
ArmadaUGS67
QueenE55
Trikslyr29
ZerO(Twitch)8
nookyyy 2
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 1192
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV312
• Noizen38
League of Legends
• Jankos4006
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Invitational
23h 33m
Gerald vs YoungYakov
Spirit vs MaNa
SHIN vs Percival
Creator vs Scarlett
Replay Cast
1d 20h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 23h
ByuN vs Solar
Clem vs Classic
Cure vs herO
Reynor vs MaxPax
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Krystianer vs TBD
TriGGeR vs SKillous
Percival vs TBD
ByuN vs Nicoract
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

YSL S2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.