• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:33
CEST 14:33
KST 21:33
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall2HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Flash Announces Retirement From ASL19Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?12FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event16Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster14Weekly Cups (June 16-22): Clem strikes back1
StarCraft 2
General
The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation What is Lactobacillus used for? Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form? StarCraft Mass Recall: SC1 campaigns on SC2 thread How does the number of casters affect your enjoyment of esports?
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event HomeStory Cup 27 (June 27-29) WardiTV Mondays SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 $200 Biweekly - StarCraft Evolution League #1
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady
Brood War
General
Flash Announces Retirement From ASL [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall ASL20 Preliminary Maps BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL20] ProLeague LB Final - Saturday 20:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Blog #2
tankgirl
Game Sound vs. Music: The Im…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 661 users

Some Protoss Gas Timings

Blogs > SC2John
Post a Reply
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
August 02 2013 22:25 GMT
#1
Protoss gas timings are perhaps more complicated and interesting than gas timings of any other race. The key thing about protoss gas is that there are several ways to accumulate the same amount of gas with minimal to no effect on the economy of the protoss player. (Sidenote: this is primarily due to the fact that building a geyser does not sacrifice the mining time of a worker).

In most modern protoss builds, protoss players want exactly 200 gas around 3:50-4:00 in order to make a stalker, a MsC, and warp gate all at the same time when the core finishes. There are several ways to get there, let's explore:

1) gas before gate:
+ Show Spoiler +
-9 pylon
-12 gas
-13 gate
**Chronoboost x3 on nexus**
-16 pylon
-18 core
-21 pylon
~200 gas mined @4:00

Although quite rare, this is a fun way to metagame someone who isn't paying attention with their scouting probe. The key here is that you appear to only have 1 geyser and look like you're gearing up for 4-gate/fast 1-gate expand, but in actuality, you're just doing a normal build. In some ways, this build is nice against cheese because if you spot it early on you can save chronoboosts. All in all, a fun way to change things up a little in your gameplay.


2) delayed second geyser:
+ Show Spoiler +
-9 pylon
**Chonoboost x3 on nexus**
-13 gate
-14 gas
-16/17 pylon
-18 core
-19 gas
-25 pylon
~200 gas mined @4:00

Perhaps the second most common after 15 double gas, this build is very flexible and allows you to make changes on the fly if you scout cheese. You can save a chronoboost and the money you were going to spend on your second gas on an early zealot instead and be safe against things like proxy rax, proxy 2-gate, etc.


3) 16 double gas:
+ Show Spoiler +
-9 pylon
**Chronoboost x3 on nexus**
-13 gate
-16 double gas
**3 on each gas**
-17 pylon
-18 core
-25 pylon
~200 gas mined @4:00

This build is almost the same as 15 double gas except that you just delay the geysers by a little bit to consolidate your mineral income then catch up in gas by putting 3 in each geyser. Again, because you delay gases, you can respond to cheese a little bit better.


4) 15 double gas:
+ Show Spoiler +
-9 pylon
**Chronoboost x3 on nexus**
-13 gate
-15 double gas
**2 on each gas**
-17 pylon
-18 core
**Add 3 on each gas**
-25 pylon
~200 gas mined @4:00

Probably the most standard opening for protoss is 15 double gas. This build is really versatile and transitions well into anything. If you decide to go for an early expand, you can leave 2 in the geysers and get a later stalker. If you want to tech up quickly, you can add in a 3rd probe at each geyser to get the gas income you need. It's just very mutable and very flexible.





***
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
Shebuha
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1335 Posts
August 03 2013 01:15 GMT
#2
Like 2 years ago i used to do gas before gate into DT against Terran and Zerg... shit was ballinnnnnnnn'. I'd like to experiment with that again... Thanks for the info's!
FakeDouble
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia676 Posts
August 03 2013 05:16 GMT
#3
Thanks for this, nice and succinct, showing that many openings can funnel into a common point (200g @ 4min). I don't play P much (unless I feel like rolling random every so often), but I never felt that scouting the P main gave me any insight into what they were going to do and this is why I guess. The timing on the nat, and the gas timing at the nat seems like more useful info when scouting a P.

I guess the corollary is that regardless of which of these openings they do, they can transition to any tech choice and unit composition
Formerly known as carbonaceous
iMrising
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
United States1099 Posts
August 03 2013 05:33 GMT
#4
oo nice of you to share this
just a curious question, which one do you like/use?
$O$ | soO
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
August 03 2013 06:34 GMT
#5
On August 03 2013 10:15 Shebuha wrote:
Like 2 years ago i used to do gas before gate into DT against Terran and Zerg... shit was ballinnnnnnnn'. I'd like to experiment with that again... Thanks for the info's!


Haha, nice! Yeah, I haven't used this opener much, but it seems like it might be a lot of fun to meta my opponents.

On August 03 2013 14:16 FakeDouble wrote:
Thanks for this, nice and succinct, showing that many openings can funnel into a common point (200g @ 4min). I don't play P much (unless I feel like rolling random every so often), but I never felt that scouting the P main gave me any insight into what they were going to do and this is why I guess. The timing on the nat, and the gas timing at the nat seems like more useful info when scouting a P.

I guess the corollary is that regardless of which of these openings they do, they can transition to any tech choice and unit composition


That's true. I think the most important things to scout against P are 1) whether or not they make a zealot, 2) how quickly their expansion is, and 3) how many pylons are in the base. An early zealot almost always means early aggression (generally a zealot/stalker/MsC poke). Also, the other very important timing for protoss is 6:30 (in PvT/PvP); this is the point where protoss tech diverges into either robo, stargate, or early gateway aggression. The gases at the natural are also really good indicators of what's coming.

On August 03 2013 14:33 iMrising wrote:
oo nice of you to share this
just a curious question, which one do you like/use?


I generally stick to 15 double gas. The reason for this is that it's just very flexible and hard to read and also prevents gas steals. In a BoX series, I believe it's best to stick with only one type of gas opening because it makes your opponent very unsure of what they're up against.
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
Esoterikk
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1256 Posts
August 03 2013 07:43 GMT
#6
I always thought with 1 gate expo you went with one geyser am I wrong? This could explain a lot of why I get dunked so early.
PandaTank
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
South Africa255 Posts
August 03 2013 07:43 GMT
#7
If you're not lazy, you can 13 gate, 14 gas, 15 gas. Which will give you a slight advantage(4-8 gas) over double 15gas without any loss.
facebook.com/PandaTank \\\ @PandaTankSC2
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-03 07:53:15
August 03 2013 07:47 GMT
#8
On August 03 2013 16:43 PandaTank wrote:
If you're not lazy, you can 13 gate, 14 gas, 15 gas. Which will give you a slight advantage(4-8 gas) over double 15gas without any loss.


I see what you mean. Yeah, I generally rally to the geyser and build them one at a time instead of pooling money. But I just call it the same thing because I feel like it essentially adds up to the same thing, just a more efficient way of doing it.

On August 03 2013 16:43 Esoterikk wrote:
I always thought with 1 gate expo you went with one geyser am I wrong? This could explain a lot of why I get dunked so early.


In WoL, you wanted to only get 1 geyser because you only needed 100 gas when your core finished. In HotS, it's generally more efficient to have MsC/stalker/warpgate start early and get your nexus down just a tad bit later. That said, MsC expand is far safer and stronger than the old WoL expands like nexus on 17 and nexus first. Here's a link to another blog post I wrote about FE in PvT:

http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=422990
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
kornetka
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Poland129 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-03 18:38:41
August 03 2013 18:38 GMT
#9
My gas timings revolves around big ass farts when I see opponent's army.
broodwar for ever
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 27m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Harstem 291
RotterdaM 269
ForJumy 42
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 5779
Sea 5014
Larva 658
EffOrt 508
Mini 361
Pusan 356
BeSt 317
Stork 307
Zeus 283
Last 224
[ Show more ]
ZerO 167
Mind 165
Snow 128
Hyun 121
Light 98
Rush 80
hero 72
Aegong 46
JYJ44
Movie 26
Sharp 23
sSak 13
NaDa 12
Barracks 10
Noble 10
IntoTheRainbow 9
ajuk12(nOOB) 9
scan(afreeca) 7
Icarus 7
SilentControl 7
HiyA 6
Hm[arnc] 1
Britney 0
Shinee 0
Stormgate
NightEnD12
Dota 2
Gorgc4376
qojqva1710
BananaSlamJamma452
XcaliburYe435
febbydoto5
League of Legends
singsing2173
Counter-Strike
x6flipin602
markeloff91
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King134
Westballz19
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor181
Other Games
B2W.Neo783
DeMusliM492
Fuzer 445
hiko335
XaKoH 245
Pyrionflax244
crisheroes231
ArmadaUGS40
ZerO(Twitch)11
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 48
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1183
Upcoming Events
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3h 27m
OSC
6h 27m
Replay Cast
11h 27m
The PondCast
21h 27m
RSL Revival
21h 27m
ByuN vs Classic
Clem vs Cham
WardiTV European League
1d 3h
Replay Cast
1d 11h
RSL Revival
1d 21h
herO vs SHIN
Reynor vs Cure
WardiTV European League
2 days
FEL
2 days
[ Show More ]
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
FEL
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
FEL
3 days
BSL: ProLeague
4 days
Dewalt vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-06-28
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.