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I, for some reason, am an idiot.
I keep trying to make hydralisks work.
Somewhere in my mind, I figure, Blizzards buffed them in HotS, hell, last week they even called them the most successful HotS unit, so I just keep using them, because I'm a moron...
Hydras STILL are a siege unit that has to get into close combat range to be useful.
The gas-per-mineral ratio is WAY too high for a non-caster/non-siege unit, nothing else in the entire game exists with 6 range or less that can't fly, doesn't have 9+ range, and doesn't cast spells. (edit: and isn't invisible, or have huge splash damage)
The Hydra is a fucking terrible unit, fucking fix it.
  
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On July 31 2013 15:10 Jermstuddog wrote:
I, for some reason, am an idiot.
The rest of your post just explained why.
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I have Blizzard on hold right now.
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Blizzard, hire this man please!
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On July 31 2013 15:10 Jermstuddog wrote:
The gas-per-mineral ratio is WAY too high for a non-caster/non-siege unit, nothing else in the entire game exists with 6 range or less that can't fly, doesn't have 9+ range, and doesn't cast spells.
Archon, DT. They cost 25 less minerals than stalkers.
Yes they are fragile, but they also have insane dps. If you are using them a lot versus terran, you'll probably think they are bad. If you not having success with them against protoss, you are doing something wrong.
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Make sure to combine them with Vipers and buffer units (Roaches or Swarm Hosts) for maximum effect. 
Also, they are crucial in ZvZ... they are great against Roaches (as long as you have Roach support too), and they allow you to push out against Mutalisks.
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hydralisks are insecure animals
they need zerglings and roaches and vipers and such to pal around with
and to get blown up or cut in half so the hydralisk doesn't
only then will the hydralisk trust you and show you the awesome power of the hydralisk
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On July 31 2013 15:28 HardlyNever wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 15:10 Jermstuddog wrote:
The gas-per-mineral ratio is WAY too high for a non-caster/non-siege unit, nothing else in the entire game exists with 6 range or less that can't fly, doesn't have 9+ range, and doesn't cast spells.
Archon, DT. They cost 25 less minerals and 25 more gas than stalkers. Yes they are fragile, but they also have insane dps. If you are using them a lot versus terran, you'll probably think they are bad. If you not having success with them against protoss, you are doing something wrong.
Alright, you got me.
DTs are invisible,
Archons have 360 fucking HP and deal splash damage.
Both are seen regularly in pro games in all MU involving protoss.
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On July 31 2013 16:04 Jermstuddog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 15:28 HardlyNever wrote:On July 31 2013 15:10 Jermstuddog wrote:
The gas-per-mineral ratio is WAY too high for a non-caster/non-siege unit, nothing else in the entire game exists with 6 range or less that can't fly, doesn't have 9+ range, and doesn't cast spells.
Archon, DT. They cost 25 less minerals and 25 more gas than stalkers. Yes they are fragile, but they also have insane dps. If you are using them a lot versus terran, you'll probably think they are bad. If you not having success with them against protoss, you are doing something wrong. Alright, you got me. DTs are invisible, Archons have 360 fucking HP and deal splash damage. Both are seen regularly in pro games in all MU involving protoss.
archons have 10hp
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On July 31 2013 16:18 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 16:04 Jermstuddog wrote:On July 31 2013 15:28 HardlyNever wrote:On July 31 2013 15:10 Jermstuddog wrote:
The gas-per-mineral ratio is WAY too high for a non-caster/non-siege unit, nothing else in the entire game exists with 6 range or less that can't fly, doesn't have 9+ range, and doesn't cast spells.
Archon, DT. They cost 25 less minerals and 25 more gas than stalkers. Yes they are fragile, but they also have insane dps. If you are using them a lot versus terran, you'll probably think they are bad. If you not having success with them against protoss, you are doing something wrong. Alright, you got me. DTs are invisible, Archons have 360 fucking HP and deal splash damage. Both are seen regularly in pro games in all MU involving protoss. archons have 10hp
Haha!
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I dunno why they fucked with the zerg race all together so much in this game. It is far less zergy. Which is supposed to be mainly cheap, plentiful, throwaway style units.
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United States10227 Posts
On July 31 2013 15:55 MarklarMarklarr wrote:
I just build drones
huk is tryin to out mine me...
but he'll never out mine me.
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On July 31 2013 15:20 Torte de Lini wrote:
I have Blizzard on hold right now.
You can hang up, I just got off the phone with David Kim:
Q: What is the most successful units in HOTS so far?
David Kim: Hydra now has speed upgrade. Ultra is a great threat to enemy right now. Muta makes harassment more effective.
Hydra now has speed upgrade.
Hydra... now... has... speed... upgrade... . ...
GG
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hydras work in zvz at least~ :D
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Hydras are a vital unit in both ZvP and ZvZ, they're incredibly useful in both matchups.
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The biggest problem of the hydra in sc2 is that it costs 2 supply. And that it's lair tech. And those aren't problems that are likely to get fixed ever.
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My friend, the Hydralisks don't deserve such slander. Please try to understand that they have no opposable thumbs, legs, or the ability to close their mouth properly. Hydralisks have drawn the short stick when it comes to their biological makeup.
Just because they are slithery glass cannons doesn't make it okay to bully. Stop bullying.
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Bisutopia19295 Posts
Why fix the hydralisk when Blizzard could easily patch in the HydraRoach?
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Have you ever seen a row of hydras get melted by a colossus or killed by storm? It looks awesome.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On July 31 2013 21:04 BisuDagger wrote:
Why fix the hydralisk when Blizzard could easily patch in the HydraRoach?
Blizz need to get their shit together and put it in.
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You can't go around making all the units meaningful that's blasphemy, at least according to Blizzard. Just listen to Blizzard themselves and go play Brood War if you want useful Hydralisks  .
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On July 31 2013 22:45 Targe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 21:04 BisuDagger wrote:
Why fix the hydralisk when Blizzard could easily patch in the HydraRoach? Blizz need to get their shit together and put it in.
That would be Baller.
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Hydras really seem like support units and they do a good job behind roaches
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On July 31 2013 21:04 BisuDagger wrote:
Why fix the hydralisk when Blizzard could easily patch in the HydraRoach?
This would be the only unit I would ever make. Make it happen Blizz.
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On July 31 2013 23:57 HeeroFX wrote:
Hydras really seem like support units and they do a good job behind roaches
See... This is exactly the type of thinking that gets me in trouble. I think this thought in my head while sitting on a solid 2 base vs 2 base against Protoss, I secure my third while he turtles up and goes for DTs. His DTs do shit for damage, so he turns them in to archons and goes for an all-in instead. When he hits, I have a nice roach/hydra army and I get my shit shoved in.
Wondering how I possibly lost, I go watch the replay, and come to realize its the fact that I included hydras that cost me the game. 100/100 (and a drone) for the den, 150/150 for range, and an extra 25/25 for every hydra that could have been a roach.
Had I just stuck with roaches, I could have 1/1 and a shitload more roaches during that fight, it is just clearly the better option in every way.
I would like to say hydras being bad isn't the problem, just that roaches are better, but it IS the problem. Hydra's are fucking worthless.
Roaches aren't an end-all-be-all in ZvP, they are a solid stepping stone to help you get through the early-mid phases of the game, but once you're past them, there is no other standard ground unit to add to your army or transition to as roaches lose their punch, you have to transition to mutas, or swarm hosts, maybe ultras if you're brave, and this is precisely where the hydra fails. Adding them to an army is one of the worst things you can do for yourself before you get on 3-4 bases, and even then, they're a generally lack-luster option. And that's just one MU, they're absolutely atrocious in ZvT and, while ZvZ is their best MU, it's still usually better to go any other T2 route than hydras because, well, they fucking suck.
I don't care what they do with the hydra, but a single target, 80hp unit for 100/50/2 that requires 400/400 dumped in unit-specific tech to even make it viable is a fucking joke. This unit is terrible. Give it more range, lower the cost, reduce the amount of unit-specific tech needed to get it working, buff the HP, I don't give a shit, but for the love of god, do SOMETHING.
edit: auto-correct is a bitch
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I hate it when Protoss go for alpine
And yes, less tech heavy more unit heavy will be better to hold off an all in. Doesn't matter if it's hydra or infestor or broodlord.
If you tech too fast you die to all ins.
max roach, not so good.
max roach-hydra? bit better.
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On August 01 2013 00:34 Clarity_nl wrote:
I hate it when Protoss go for alpine
And yes, less tech heavy more unit heavy will be better to hold off an all in. Doesn't matter if it's hydra or infestor or broodlord.
If you tech too fast you die to all ins.
max roach, not so good.
max roach-hydra? bit better.
auto-corrects were fixed sir.
And while I agree with you, I think your "bit better" may be overstating the usefulness of the unit.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On July 31 2013 23:40 docvoc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 22:45 Targe wrote:On July 31 2013 21:04 BisuDagger wrote:
Why fix the hydralisk when Blizzard could easily patch in the HydraRoach? Blizz need to get their shit together and put it in. That would be Baller.
Ohohohoho
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I think this thought in my head while sitting on a solid 2 base vs 2 base against Protoss, I secure my third while he turtles up and goes for DTs. His DTs do shit for damage, so he turns them in to archons and goes for an all-in instead. When he hits, I have a nice roach/hydra army and I get my shit shoved in.
You know that hydras and roaches don't have to hug the archons right?
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Are you sure you have your account set to Heart of the Swarm?
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On August 01 2013 02:29 Erik.TheRed wrote:
Are you sure you have your account set to Heart of the Swarm?
Yes, and that's the problem.
I am told that Hydras are better in HotS, but all I see is them running to their deaths faster than ever before.
They're still too expensive for what they do. They're still a dead-end tech. They're still a fools lure. And sadly, they seem to be more necessary than ever before. In ZvP, a few Protoss compositions demand that Zerg use Hydralisks to compete, but they're just so bad, I am amazed any time I watch a pro actually pull off something using them.
I don't know what should be done with the hydralisk, I leave those decisions up to Blizzard because they don't really give a crap what I think about the unit anyway, but right now, I think I have somehow come to hate it even more than I did in WoL, and that's saying a lot.
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Actually, I think the thought was for them to run away from their deaths faster. Or better yet not die at all. Although the "hit and run" role that Blizzard has suggested is pretty batshit, they are way too expensive for that.
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On August 01 2013 03:09 sweetbabyjesus wrote:
Actually, I think the thought was for them to run away from their deaths faster. Or better yet not die at all. Although the "hit and run" role that Blizzard has suggested is pretty batshit, they are way too expensive for that.
I agree with everything in that sentiment.
It seems like rather than try to fix the unit itself, Blizzard tried to give Zerg the ability to retreat when they have Hydras in their army. Considering this was one of the huge problems with the unit throughout WOL, it wasn't a bad thing to target.
Unfortunately, the unit still sucks in the whole cost-effective department, so if you're losing ANY hydralisks at all, you had better be killing your opponents whole army and attacking before he can rebuild, because you can't afford to trade hydras for ANYTHING. Nothing short of winning the game outright is worth losing hydras over, they're just too damn expensive.
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On July 31 2013 16:26 Grend wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 16:18 sob3k wrote:On July 31 2013 16:04 Jermstuddog wrote:On July 31 2013 15:28 HardlyNever wrote:On July 31 2013 15:10 Jermstuddog wrote:
The gas-per-mineral ratio is WAY too high for a non-caster/non-siege unit, nothing else in the entire game exists with 6 range or less that can't fly, doesn't have 9+ range, and doesn't cast spells.
Archon, DT. They cost 25 less minerals and 25 more gas than stalkers. Yes they are fragile, but they also have insane dps. If you are using them a lot versus terran, you'll probably think they are bad. If you not having success with them against protoss, you are doing something wrong. Alright, you got me. DTs are invisible, Archons have 360 fucking HP and deal splash damage. Both are seen regularly in pro games in all MU involving protoss. archons have 10hp Haha!
HaHaHa
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On July 31 2013 15:10 Jermstuddog wrote:
The Hydra is a fucking terrible unit, fucking fix it.
I'll get right on that. Sorry I didn't do this sooner, but I'm a pretty big procrastinator. :p
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Yeah, hydras clearly need to be given yamato cannon, dunno what Blizzard is thinking.
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EPT
