• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:40
CEST 19:40
KST 02:40
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy4Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27
Community News
Classic & herO RO8 Interviews: "I think it’s time to teach [Rogue] a lesson."2Rogue & GuMiho RO8 interviews: "Lifting that trophy would be a testament to all I’ve had to overcome over the years and how far I’ve come on this journey.3Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2)12BGE Stara Zagora 2025 - Replay Pack2Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down1
StarCraft 2
General
Classic & herO RO8 Interviews: "I think it’s time to teach [Rogue] a lesson." Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2) Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho Rogue & GuMiho RO8 interviews: "Lifting that trophy would be a testament to all I’ve had to overcome over the years and how far I’ve come on this journey. I have an extra ticket to the GSL Ro4/finals
Tourneys
[GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Semi Finals & Finals $3,500 WardiTV European League 2025 Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
ASL20 Preliminary Maps BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Recent recommended BW games BW General Discussion FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 4
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread NHL Playoffs 2024 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
A Better Routine For Progame…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 32043 users

MsC vs. 1-gate FE in PvT

Blogs > SC2John
Post a Reply
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-27 22:52:40
July 27 2013 22:51 GMT
#1
Playing around with different expands in this matchup, trying to figure out how to play this correctly. One cool revelation I've had is that a probe scout is pretty much completely unnecessary in this matchup. Although there are some nasty all-ins or cheesy proxy play that can hit us before 5:30, we're pretty much safe from all normal play before the MsC. With a direct MsC scout or a zealot/stalker/MsC poke around 5:30, we can get all of the scouting info we need.

Here are some rough BOs:

Modern MsC Expand:
+ Show Spoiler +
9 pylon
**3 chronoboosts on nexus**
13 gate
15 double gas
**2 in each gas**
17 pylon
18 core
22 zealot (cancel)
**23 rally nexus to natural
21 nexus
23 MsC
23 warpgate
25 stalker
25 pylon
27 sentry
27 robo
27 forge
(@5:00, add robo + forge)
@100% MsC -> scout (5:30)
32 sentry
@6:30 3rd/4th gas
If no cannons needed, start +1 armor
@7:00 gate x2
44 sentry


_


1-gate FE (PvT):
+ Show Spoiler +
9 pylon
13 gate
**2 chronoboosts on nexus**
15 double gas
**2 on each gas**
17 pylon
18 core
**2 chronoboosts on nexus**
21 zealot
23 pylon
25 MsC
27 stalker
29 nexus
Poke with MsC/stalker/zealot @5:30
31 sentry
31 robo
31 forge
(@5:30, add robo/forge)
33 sentry
33 pylon
If no cannons needed, +1 armor
@6:30, add natural gases
@7:00, add gate x2
48 sentry

_


Looking at both of these builds (and playing them as well), the MsC expand feels EXTRAORDINARILY economical in comparison, while the 1-gate FE variant definitely gives you more options to punish a terran who skips a bunker or just doesn't defend very well, but both still give you the scouting info you need at 5:30.

Both builds include a stalker to push away reapers. The 1-gate FE variant has a second stalker as well, allowing the protoss to poke with the initial stalker/zealot without worrying about economic damage.

Many times, if I don't scout a reaper, I like to throw down 3 extra gateways and do a warpgate attack @~7:00, making my 32/33 pylon a proxy. With the 1-gate FE, I will generally have 4 stalkers/2 sentries (one with GS)/2 zealots with the first warpin, which should break a bunker almost instantly. A lot of times, you can even force the terran to lift off the natural. I follow this up with natural gases and robo/forge, generally going into colossus (because they feel faster and safer against the counter aggression with stim), but you can also follow up with mass gateway units + double forge/twilight and recall if your opponent tries to drop.

Wanna play with some more openings and variations and see if I can get a better idea of this matchup.


*
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25550 Posts
July 27 2013 23:11 GMT
#2
Yeah MsC expo is pretty awesome. You have good defenses and there's a lot of things you're automatically safe against. I'd still recommend at least a delayed probe scout though in case there's some serious shenannies, but I think generally now you almost always want to MsC Expo instead of 1G Expo. It's economical and relatively safe and you have a lot of options.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
CSO Cup
17:00
#80
Liquipedia
Cheesadelphia
15:00
Cheeseadelphia 2025
CranKy Ducklings134
davetesta36
LiquipediaDiscussion
WardiTV Invitational
11:00
WardiTV June Playoffs
MaxPax vs ReynorLIVE!
WardiTV1784
TKL 322
IndyStarCraft 262
Rex161
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
TKL 322
IndyStarCraft 262
Rex 161
ProTech85
BRAT_OK 82
MindelVK 38
trigger 35
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 27597
Calm 4367
Rain 2994
Horang2 1679
Nal_rA 170
BeSt 123
Dewaltoss 119
Zeus 95
sas.Sziky 63
JulyZerg 44
[ Show more ]
Rock 29
scan(afreeca) 26
SilentControl 13
IntoTheRainbow 8
Dota 2
Gorgc7264
qojqva2597
League of Legends
Dendi1886
JimRising 729
Trikslyr69
Counter-Strike
fl0m5358
olofmeister2343
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King55
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor670
Liquid`Hasu439
Other Games
tarik_tv40106
gofns19674
Grubby2858
C9.Mang0488
Mlord449
Lowko374
crisheroes368
DeMusliM269
ArmadaUGS104
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream8367
Other Games
gamesdonequick1039
EGCTV649
StarCraft 2
angryscii 21
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 26
• printf 20
• 3DClanTV 17
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3438
• WagamamaTV410
• Ler81
• lizZardDota245
League of Legends
• Nemesis7388
Other Games
• imaqtpie769
• Shiphtur307
Upcoming Events
BSL: ProLeague
20m
Hawk vs UltrA
Sziky vs spx
TerrOr vs JDConan
GSL Code S
14h 20m
Rogue vs herO
Classic vs GuMiho
Sparkling Tuna Cup
16h 20m
WardiTV Qualifier
22h 20m
BSL: ProLeague
1d
Bonyth vs Dewalt
Cross vs Doodle
MadiNho vs Dragon
Replay Cast
1d 6h
Wardi Open
1d 17h
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Cure vs Percival
ByuN vs Spirit
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
3 days
herO vs sOs
Zoun vs Clem
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Serral vs SHIN
Solar vs Cham
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Reynor vs Scarlett
ShoWTimE vs Classic
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
SC Evo League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-06-11
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
2025 GSL S2
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
BLAST Open Fall 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.