• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:05
CEST 07:05
KST 14:05
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3
Community News
New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!30Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week5Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles2GSTL Returns in 2026!45Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7
StarCraft 2
General
SC4ALL II: SC2 Player Announcement 6/8 - Maru How would you feel about frequent/monthly balance patches for SC2? Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week Starcraft2 player guess game is Coming~!
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Announcement IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) WORTEX 2026 - Hungarian SC2 Finals Budapest
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 540 Dodge This The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome Mutation # 538 Media Blackout
Brood War
General
[Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60 New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery! BW General Discussion [ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call Farewell Beloved Starcraft (Youtube Videos)
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro24 Group F Escore Tournament - Season 3 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3 [ASL22] Ro24 Group E
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Game Theory for Starcraft Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Violent Games and Crime Rate…
TrAiDoS
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7269 users

MsC vs. 1-gate FE in PvT

Blogs > SC2John
Post a Reply
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-27 22:52:40
July 27 2013 22:51 GMT
#1
Playing around with different expands in this matchup, trying to figure out how to play this correctly. One cool revelation I've had is that a probe scout is pretty much completely unnecessary in this matchup. Although there are some nasty all-ins or cheesy proxy play that can hit us before 5:30, we're pretty much safe from all normal play before the MsC. With a direct MsC scout or a zealot/stalker/MsC poke around 5:30, we can get all of the scouting info we need.

Here are some rough BOs:

Modern MsC Expand:
+ Show Spoiler +
9 pylon
**3 chronoboosts on nexus**
13 gate
15 double gas
**2 in each gas**
17 pylon
18 core
22 zealot (cancel)
**23 rally nexus to natural
21 nexus
23 MsC
23 warpgate
25 stalker
25 pylon
27 sentry
27 robo
27 forge
(@5:00, add robo + forge)
@100% MsC -> scout (5:30)
32 sentry
@6:30 3rd/4th gas
If no cannons needed, start +1 armor
@7:00 gate x2
44 sentry


_


1-gate FE (PvT):
+ Show Spoiler +
9 pylon
13 gate
**2 chronoboosts on nexus**
15 double gas
**2 on each gas**
17 pylon
18 core
**2 chronoboosts on nexus**
21 zealot
23 pylon
25 MsC
27 stalker
29 nexus
Poke with MsC/stalker/zealot @5:30
31 sentry
31 robo
31 forge
(@5:30, add robo/forge)
33 sentry
33 pylon
If no cannons needed, +1 armor
@6:30, add natural gases
@7:00, add gate x2
48 sentry

_


Looking at both of these builds (and playing them as well), the MsC expand feels EXTRAORDINARILY economical in comparison, while the 1-gate FE variant definitely gives you more options to punish a terran who skips a bunker or just doesn't defend very well, but both still give you the scouting info you need at 5:30.

Both builds include a stalker to push away reapers. The 1-gate FE variant has a second stalker as well, allowing the protoss to poke with the initial stalker/zealot without worrying about economic damage.

Many times, if I don't scout a reaper, I like to throw down 3 extra gateways and do a warpgate attack @~7:00, making my 32/33 pylon a proxy. With the 1-gate FE, I will generally have 4 stalkers/2 sentries (one with GS)/2 zealots with the first warpin, which should break a bunker almost instantly. A lot of times, you can even force the terran to lift off the natural. I follow this up with natural gases and robo/forge, generally going into colossus (because they feel faster and safer against the counter aggression with stim), but you can also follow up with mass gateway units + double forge/twilight and recall if your opponent tries to drop.

Wanna play with some more openings and variations and see if I can get a better idea of this matchup.


*
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25562 Posts
July 27 2013 23:11 GMT
#2
Yeah MsC expo is pretty awesome. You have good defenses and there's a lot of things you're automatically safe against. I'd still recommend at least a delayed probe scout though in case there's some serious shenannies, but I think generally now you almost always want to MsC Expo instead of 1G Expo. It's economical and relatively safe and you have a lot of options.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h 55m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech142
Nina 33
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2703
Shuttle 1995
GuemChi 1603
Leta 112
Noble 51
Soma 23
Bale 20
Icarus 7
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm184
Counter-Strike
summit1g5639
Other Games
C9.Mang0316
XaKoH 230
Livibee151
Mew2King89
ViBE82
UpATreeSC27
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV38
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH205
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Light_VIP 9
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota2158
• lizZardDota2114
League of Legends
• Lourlo1100
• Rush1072
Other Games
• Scarra837
Upcoming Events
Escore
4h 55m
IntoTheTV X SOOP
5h 55m
RotterdaM Event
11h 25m
Korean StarCraft League
20h 55m
GSL
1d 5h
Replay Cast
1d 18h
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
GSL
4 days
[ Show More ]
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 22: Qualifier 1
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
META DYMY #4

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 2
RSL Revival: Season 6
Light Tournament 2026
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

BSL 2026 LAN: Kraków
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Calamity Invitational
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.