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20 days ago or so, I blogged about my frustration with there not being a versus race MMR for unranked and that it was hard to have efficient practice on ladder or unranked.
I wasn't trolling. I still have a bronze MMR in unranked. Undoubtedly, I have the lowest unranked MMR in NA. Some people said I shouldn't insta leave games in ladder and that I should just play all of the mu's, even though my vs z was horrible and it was the main reason I wasn't in GM.
Well, here's an update: stop posting advice. I chose to leave all of my ladder games that weren't versus Zerg. I artificially controlled my MMR to make sure it wouldn't go below Diamond, by playing just enough games that weren't against Zerg, to ensure this. I left my division several times, ending up in Diamond four times (took 13-16 games of not insta leaving to get promoted back to Masters before I'd start insta leaving, again).
Eventually, I ended up with an opening that was ridiculed by the "strategy forum's guru." While I don't particularly find it solid or fully understand it, myself, I got the impression that I could find a way to win enough games against Zerg at the MMR that I needed to.
So, I stopped insta leaving games, and gave it a go. I wasn't very confident in my versus T, either, so I was just hoping the "wheels wouldn't fall off" it, or else I'd start insta leaving games to practice versus T.
End result: things were able to work out and I ended up first in masters in NA, and I got promoted to GM at 102-50, 1433 points. Given that I had a few computer crashes and I'm kind of at a loss against proxy gates (be it zealots or fast stalkers), I was pleasantly surprised. Without a doubt, I owe this to not wasting my time practicing a mu that was already at GM level.
And for those wanting to talk about practice partners, even though I'm GM now, and I probably have fewer games played than anyone in GM... I still doubt I could even find a team (sponsored) worth joining.
I started playing SC 2 (WoL) around a year ago. I made masters in a month. It has taken me far, far longer than I wish it would have to make GM. Given that I insta leave a crazy amount, it's tough to say for sure how many games I've played. My account is at 5500. Around 4000, I'd guess. It's probably fewer than that, but I played beta, so that sounds fair to me.
I'd like to join a team, but SC 2 seems like a failure of an esport so far. WCS NA is the opposite of incentive to play. If it went away, completely, I couldn't care less. There are no local lans/tournaments. When I think of a NA pro, I think of a "personality" or someone that got lucky with networking in BW.
Getting GM feels like beating a game and having a sense of "I get to move on to another game now." It's unfortunate that SC 2 is still in a stage where it's not worth playing. I'd like to join a team, but you know, I'm sure a person with 15k games of SC 2 and is worse than me currently is more fit/deserving of said spot.
I don't really like anything about the scene, but I must admit that I do kinda enjoy playing SC 2 more than BW. I don't miss the repetitive actions. When you're probably still having to look forward to WCG, you know it's probably all for naught. Too bad.
 
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I feel the same way which is why I play Dota 2 instead lately, I think Blizzard is still missing the mark on keeping the middle level competitive (which Wc3 did well and BW had amazing customs to keep them playing). Hopefully it gets better in LotV but I have no reason to believe it will, they don't really seem to understand why Sc2 isn't very fun.
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If you got GM with a 102-50 record there are a lot of people (me included) who are GM and have less games then you.
But congrats on getting GM although getting GM is far from being seen as a pro, lots of bad players get GM and yeah just being GM doesn't mean a pro team will get you no matter how many games played you have.
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On July 11 2013 09:40 blade55555 wrote:
If you got GM with a 102-50 record there are a lot of people (me included) who are GM and have less games then you.
But congrats on getting GM although getting GM is far from being seen as a pro, lots of bad players get GM and yeah just being GM doesn't mean a pro team will get you no matter how many games played you have.
I'm talking about overall (it's an exaggeration still, though)... as that would be completely pointless if I meant how you're talking about. I mean, rootsage, a Korean pro gamer was in my division. Obviously he made it to GM in less games this season...
Edit: I was GM in beta, after 3 or 4 months, but I don't think that really counts...
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That is amazing that you made it to GM in beta given the fact it was introduced after the game was already out for some months.
The Fish is right I hope.
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Maybe he meant Hots beta?
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he obviously meant hots beta. He said he started playing Sc2 1 year ago, so he didnt play during WoL beta.
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On July 11 2013 10:21 senfkatze wrote:
he obviously meant hots beta. He said he started playing Sc2 1 year ago, so he didnt play during WoL beta.
Yeah, I never played WoL beta. I turned down a key. I wasn't that interested in playing SC 2. Starting up was an unexpected thing. I wish I would have played the beta though, so I would have known some of the new units. I have to think the person that told me that some people use the mothership in p vs z. I was losing to broodlords for ever, despite having all the expos. And I was informed you could merge dts into archons. Without eventually finding those two things out, prob diamond still.
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Michael, we were interested in picking you up in Clarity long ago  You just never followed up. Congrats on hitting GM though!
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wow congrats on getting GM! too bad you're not very much into the pro scene or what not though...
By the way, would you have any advice as for how to practice and improve? I myself have been wishing I could get into just masters league, but I can't seem to get there. Any tips on... like, HOW to actually improve? 
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On July 11 2013 11:28 chadissilent wrote:Michael, we were interested in picking you up in Clarity long ago You just never followed up. Congrats on hitting GM though!
Thanks, Chad. I'm a big fan of Clarity Gaming. I think your academy team, alone, would be favored over other NA pro teams. You guys are too good, and I think I had a playing with 10 FPS thing going on back then. Part of improving, at least for me, is simply feeling like a noob. Being very self-critical can help your improvement rate, but when it comes to actively trying to join teams or anything, you're left with timidity and no confidence.
And, if I were to ever feel good enough to give it a shot, odds are it would be a team more focused around other stuff; eg., what was his personality like in that 5 minute video... check out those twitter followers... you know, stuff that couldn't even get a starting-out-flash on a team, even if his potential was obvious.
Clarity fighting. If only teams like Clarity were the norm, instead of a unique exception.
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On July 11 2013 12:00 Sir.Phalanx wrote:wow congrats on getting GM! too bad you're not very much into the pro scene or what not though... By the way, would you have any advice as for how to practice and improve? I myself have been wishing I could get into just masters league, but I can't seem to get there. Any tips on... like, HOW to actually improve?
I don't think I have anything too earth shattering. I always got into games late, so if I wanted to catch up, it meant I had to put in at least 2x the games as the guys that started before me. There's no way around it. Everyone has a different content level. What is ok to one person might be a horrible atrocity to another. The person that is content ends up less driven to improve. Ie., if you think your macro is trash, you will be more serious about getting it to a satisfactory level.
Everyone wishes to be a complete player, but more times than not, a high level player might only excel at one facet of the game. For me, I've never been a micro player. I've been a player who has been appalled by his micro and who has tried to make it passable.
If you're not a high apm player, which I'm not, I think you have to look at hotkey setups as a mu in itself. Once I got to masters, the first thing I did was I stopped using the BW hotkeys. I customized everything. I treated it like it was a mu. Every day, I'd analyze it and try to improve it. I wanted everything to be logical, thus improving my efficiency. Also, since I'm a macro player, I wanted my nexi to have individual hotkeys for them, along with being in a group together, so I could "out chrono boost" others.
At the end of the day, you have to be doing something better than the other guy. Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses. While the goal is to eventually become a complete player, you really want to hone in on your strength(s) and accentuate it. If you're a macro player, floating 600 minerals might not be something you should view as acceptable. If you're a micro player, missing a force field shouldn't be acceptable to you. The more it bothers you, the faster you'll find yourself fixing it.
Also, different things work for different players. If you're creative and logical, it really doesn't matter much what anyone says in a strategy forum. Don't be afraid of trial and error. Normal doesn't matter. Others opinions pale in comparison to results. If it works, it works. Worry about figuring out the "why's" later. If it doesn't work, however... it's paramount that you limit the time you commit to running this experiment that gives you the same undesired result. Results speak for themselves. You simply need to get your mechanics to a level that leaves no room for doubt on whether your build needs to be changed or not.
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I wish a more thankful player got gm, but I suppose you put in the work.
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That's an obscene number of games for only having sc2 for a year. I've had WoL since release night, and I'm only at just over 3k career games (wol and hots combined). I considered myself a fairly active player through most of WoL, and the first few months of HotS (maintaining mid-high master since it came out). I dropped off over the past few months having graduating and starting a full time job.
Are you a college student or something? I dunno where you got the time to put in that many games in a year.
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sup playa, glad to see you still around playing!
I will never forget your 5 minute DT into 2base arbiters broodwar PvT build rofl.
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On July 11 2013 14:32 LuckyFool wrote:
sup playa, glad to see you still around playing!
I will never forget your 5 minute DT into 2base arbiters broodwar PvT build rofl.
Sups. I remember running into you on iccup, and you told me I should play SC 2 and why. Fast forward a few years, and to my knowledge, you retired/quit. Did you come back or are you going to?
That build was imbalanced on maps where a dt could get to their natural pretty quick. Arbiters were too strong, especially fast ones. Can't afford recall defense (100 turrets) 12 mins into a game, yet can't push against fast stasis. If it's any solace, I never felt good about the wins. I knew it was dirty and the mu wasn't that balanced.
As for getting in the games, the first couple of months I played, I was actually working a job where I was traveling around the US, in a hotel 4 days out of the week. I could only play a few days out of the week, when at home. I kinda feel like I have anxiety... so I never really had ladder anxiety: everything is relative, and when people aren't watching you do something and no one even knows who you are, it's pretty easy to hit the find match button. Perfectionism + relaxation = games. If you're a gamer, you find ways to play games.
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If you believe grandmasters means being good (or pro level to be more accurate), I have bad news for you. Even in terms of being a grandmaster there are huge skill differences in the sections. Everyone below top 150 is usually worse than high masters and only in there because they got promoted in the beginning of the season, at least on europe. Also if you feel like you played through it now, try to get grandmasters mid-season or on another server, I can guarantee its much harder ;-)
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On July 11 2013 17:40 NarutO wrote:
If you believe grandmasters means being good (or pro level to be more accurate), I have bad news for you. Even in terms of being a grandmaster there are huge skill differences in the sections. Everyone below top 150 is usually worse than high masters and only in there because they got promoted in the beginning of the season, at least on europe. Also if you feel like you played through it now, try to get grandmasters mid-season or on another server, I can guarantee its much harder ;-)
I don't really get this sentiment. I already beat players considered the best in NA, like Scarlet, when I was an average high masters player last season. To me, there's not a big difference between NA players. It has a lot more to do with strategies you fare well against and vice versa. SC 2 is nothing like BW to me when it comes to skill gaps. Most of the players in NA that are good now are players I was on the same level with in BW. It's not a matter of being good or not now. It's about common sense and determining whether it matters or not to be at that level in SC 2.
You're giving people too much credit in my opinion. Think back on BW and how good players were when the game was new. It was before my time, but everyone would say hey... these guys were C- noobs, in retrospect. Everyone can be beaten.
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On July 11 2013 18:04 playa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 17:40 NarutO wrote:
If you believe grandmasters means being good (or pro level to be more accurate), I have bad news for you. Even in terms of being a grandmaster there are huge skill differences in the sections. Everyone below top 150 is usually worse than high masters and only in there because they got promoted in the beginning of the season, at least on europe. Also if you feel like you played through it now, try to get grandmasters mid-season or on another server, I can guarantee its much harder ;-) I don't really get this sentiment. I already beat players considered the best in NA, like Scarlet, when I was an average high masters player last season. To me, there's not a big difference between NA players. It has a lot more to do with strategies you fare well against and vice versa. SC 2 is nothing like BW to me when it comes to skill gaps. Most of the players in NA that are good now are players I was on the same level with in BW. It's not a matter of being good or not now. It's about common sense and determining whether it matters or not to be at that level in SC 2. You're giving people too much credit in my opinion. Think back on BW and how good players were when the game was new. It was before my time, but everyone would say hey... these guys were C- noobs, in retrospect. Everyone can be beaten.
Personally I don't feel a lot of C- noobs I remember (if any?) are now good in Starcraft 2. The worst Starcraft players I remember that are kind of known were at least B or higher. Personally I feel NA and Europe are a big difference in itself. If its possible for you, I'd suggest playing on the Korean server as you will clearly see a difference in terms of skill and playstyle.
I agree that strategies and preference in terms of how to approach the game / playstyle can make you either lose to inferior or beat better players, personally as an example I think I would fare far better against a macro Protoss that is high level compared to a cheesy one.
Still, I am currently high masters with GM MMR and the difference when meeting a top 180 gm Protoss or a top 50 is insane, might be tough luck or a bad day on the side of the lower grandmaster, but I can clearly see better decisions, smarter movement and overall better gameplay.
While you said you already beat top NA players (and I would agree the very top of NA and the very top of EU is close in skill even though I'd favor EU) being 'good' doesn't mean being able to beat them once or twice, but also being consistent. I also understand when you talk about its a decision of wanting to be at that level. I personally have a job, I would love progaming but is it really worth it? You would have to give up so much time, friends, etc that its not worth it for me personally. I still like to play a lot and be good, but being professional takes up much time.
Still I believe if you want to be pro and as you pointed out feel like you've played through you ignore a lot of things, especially given the fact that from the level where you are no there are WORLDS between you and top-stars even in the foreign scene I suppose in terms of skill and consistency. Always remember that winning a tournamnet for example doesn't take a victory over one good player, but over multiple good players in boX series under pressure etc.
Get your ass up on KR or EU, try to stand your ground there and be consistent, I believe I don't give too much credit too anyone with that statement.
Edit: While I also agree that there are no skill gaps as large as in Broodwar, I think this is because Starcraft 2 overall is an easier game where its easier to lose to an inferior opponent simply due to strategy, but I feel its still hard enough and allows enough action to allow skill gaps. For reference;
High Master Terran very good
Amateuer-Semi-Pro Terran probably better
LucifroN worlds above both those guys
Korean Top STar Terran , once again worlds above LucifroN
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On July 11 2013 18:11 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 18:04 playa wrote:On July 11 2013 17:40 NarutO wrote:
If you believe grandmasters means being good (or pro level to be more accurate), I have bad news for you. Even in terms of being a grandmaster there are huge skill differences in the sections. Everyone below top 150 is usually worse than high masters and only in there because they got promoted in the beginning of the season, at least on europe. Also if you feel like you played through it now, try to get grandmasters mid-season or on another server, I can guarantee its much harder ;-) I don't really get this sentiment. I already beat players considered the best in NA, like Scarlet, when I was an average high masters player last season. To me, there's not a big difference between NA players. It has a lot more to do with strategies you fare well against and vice versa. SC 2 is nothing like BW to me when it comes to skill gaps. Most of the players in NA that are good now are players I was on the same level with in BW. It's not a matter of being good or not now. It's about common sense and determining whether it matters or not to be at that level in SC 2. You're giving people too much credit in my opinion. Think back on BW and how good players were when the game was new. It was before my time, but everyone would say hey... these guys were C- noobs, in retrospect. Everyone can be beaten. Personally I don't feel a lot of C- noobs I remember (if any?) are now good in Starcraft 2. The worst Starcraft players I remember that are kind of known were at least B or higher. Personally I feel NA and Europe are a big difference in itself. If its possible for you, I'd suggest playing on the Korean server as you will clearly see a difference in terms of skill and playstyle. I agree that strategies and preference in terms of how to approach the game / playstyle can make you either lose to inferior or beat better players, personally as an example I think I would fare far better against a macro Protoss that is high level compared to a cheesy one. Still, I am currently high masters with GM MMR and the difference when meeting a top 180 gm Protoss or a top 50 is insane, might be tough luck or a bad day on the side of the lower grandmaster, but I can clearly see better decisions, smarter movement and overall better gameplay. While you said you already beat top NA players (and I would agree the very top of NA and the very top of EU is close in skill even though I'd favor EU) being 'good' doesn't mean being able to beat them once or twice, but also being consistent. I also understand when you talk about its a decision of wanting to be at that level. I personally have a job, I would love progaming but is it really worth it? You would have to give up so much time, friends, etc that its not worth it for me personally. I still like to play a lot and be good, but being professional takes up much time. Still I believe if you want to be pro and as you pointed out feel like you've played through you ignore a lot of things, especially given the fact that from the level where you are no there are WORLDS between you and top-stars even in the foreign scene I suppose in terms of skill and consistency. Always remember that winning a tournamnet for example doesn't take a victory over one good player, but over multiple good players in boX series under pressure etc. Get your ass up on KR or EU, try to stand your ground there and be consistent, I believe I don't give too much credit too anyone with that statement. Edit: While I also agree that there are no skill gaps as large as in Broodwar, I think this is because Starcraft 2 overall is an easier game where its easier to lose to an inferior opponent simply due to strategy, but I feel its still hard enough and allows enough action to allow skill gaps. For reference; High Master Terran very good Amateuer-Semi-Pro Terran probably better LucifroN worlds above both those guys Korean Top STar Terran , once again worlds above LucifroN
I tried playing on KR, briefly, but I stopped because masters didn't seem any harder. I mean, players like Jaedong had the same MMR as players I was beating. It just kinda ruined the allure of playing there for me. The extra lat wasn't worth it, although I'm sure I'll play there more in the future. I played a lot on Korean servers in BW, so I was pretty shocked that the difference wasn't that big: an average Korean in BW seemed to be just as good as the best foreigners. Sase is a great player. He is GM KR. Is he winning many tournaments, if any, though? I'm a fan of Sase, but I'm merely trying to point out that the difference can't be that massive.
Perhaps you're more of a standard player. I just do my own thing: they didn't get to whatever MMR they're at by beating whatever I'm doing. I played a lot of BW, and I played against pretty much everyone -- be it Korean pros or non Korean ones. Going from BW to SC 2... you notice a skill difference, but it's so freaking minute in comparison to anything you'd see in BW, that it's kinda trivial at times. I'm a lot more afraid of facing a strategy that I'm lacking against atm than facing a 30th GM, compared to the 180th ranked GM that's going to do a strategy I'm not "GM level" against.
I just place a lot more importance on finding answers to strategies that are troubling me than anything else. To me, in SC 2, a good player is probably the one with the most answers to strategies and timings. Also, at least in masters, there's so many more Zerg players than other races. A player that's worse than you, overall, could still be ranked higher simply because their vs Zerg is better.
In WoL, even when in Masters, I still lost to everyone that did the 1-1-1 build. I would have had a better shot at taking games off the best player ever than beating a diamond 1-1-1 player. In SC 2, I get far more excited over beating a strategy that I was having trouble against than a player that is deemed to be better.
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Actually on EU, I meet mostly Protoss so to me I could get higher the better my TvP gets. I personally feel like Zergs and Protoss and especially Protoss can get higher because they have very strong timings. Protoss has a variety of 2-base allins and 1-base timings that are even hard to defeat when scouted. I think thats also a point you mean by being afraid of a strategy. I don't know what race you play, but as Terran even a scouted blinallin with MSC and preparation or proxy robo immortal allin can be very tough to hold off.
In Broodwar a scouted allin was nearly bound to fail and I agree, the skill gap was bigger, because it was more mechanically demanding so it allowed for more mistakes and slips in micro/macro.
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I play Protoss. I played Terran in BW and played p vs t (not relevant, though). I don't do all-ins. I don't know how to stop making probes or trying to expand. I just can't do it. Like I never even once tried a 4 gate in WoL. I just play differently (you could say gimmicky), but it's always macro oriented, aiming to gain a macro adv. I felt Terran was the race that you didn't really have a choice with when it came to being comfortable with playing long, drawn out games with in BW. I just feel like to not be a flash in the pan, so to speak, you can't look to end games early. I look to do the same in SC 2, though not too comfortable with long games in mirror mu.
If I'm a macro player, I'll be a lot more comfortable playing that kind of game than someone that forces me into a micro game. For instance, I don't play with healthbars always on. So, if someone just proxy 2 gates and goes fast stalkers, it doesn't really matter if I know it's coming, I'm going to be uneasy because it feels like a double whammy. I either have to get "cute" and try to circumvent having to outmicro him, or I need to try to outmicro him with kind of an inherent disadvantage, on top of being the lesser player at micro to begin with.
But, overall, the mothership core helps you play macro oriented games more often than not. You can be the best 4 gater in the world, but if my strategy beats it, it just doesn't matter a whole lot. And, unless the player is basing his build/strategy around what you're doing, you're going to end up winning your fare share of games against people that might be considered better.
As a toss player, if you can't deal with mutas or swarm hosts, it doesn't really matter who you're playing. All-in players are particularly strong when a game is new. Not only do players not have all of the right answers/timings to defend all-ins, but once you make a mistake, the opponent is at your front door and will end the game. There's less margin for error, obviously. These players get viewed as being good, as if they're permanently good, but to me... it just highlights that it's more about strategy than "skill" a lot of times. If I know how to stop an all-in, I don't care what his/her rank is.
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Congrats. That feeling buddy.
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Not 100% sure what the point of this is. It seems sort of like a brag blog, but then you start talking about how the pro scene is bad. Then you seem to imply that because you took a game off of a few NA pros, and korean players that "have the same MMR" as other pros, that you are basically on their level. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.
Sjow beat Life at Dreamhack. No one in their right mind thinks Sjow is as good as Life at sc2; he just had a good set of games against a bad set of games from Life, got sort of lucky, and won. You've clearly devoted to a lot of your life from the past year to this game, I'd say you may as well at least try to get paid for it. Try to go pro and actually make some money at it. There are people doing it successfully.
Or maybe that's not the point of this blog. I honestly can't tell.
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On July 11 2013 09:38 Esoterikk wrote:
I feel the same way which is why I play Dota 2 instead lately, I think Blizzard is still missing the mark on keeping the middle level competitive (which Wc3 did well and BW had amazing customs to keep them playing). Hopefully it gets better in LotV but I have no reason to believe it will, they don't really seem to understand why Sc2 isn't very fun.
yay thank goodness im not the only one feeling the same way though I still love SC2 dearly.. :D
Dota2 is now officially released and I am feeling it would out shine Sc2 if this would be continue.. even with dota's graphics I can still play it with no pressure.
I just hope Sc2 reaches the same balance and excitement as the previous blizzard games. I am really sad about D3's run though, I was really expecting a lot from it..
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congrats man, I remember that feeling of hitting GM, it's good. 
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I'd like to clarify that while it's simply kind of an update of a blog of a month ago, I thought GM blogs were invariably brag blogs, lol. It's like climbing mount everest and then being self-deprecating or something. I think only Mondragon (most humble interviews ever, besides innovation) might do that.
For those that didn't see the previous blog/frustration rant, laddering in SC 2 has been pretty hard for me. In BW, I had a practice account for each matchup. I found out I simply preferred focusing on one mu at a time, be it the mu I felt I needed to improve the most or just the mu I felt like playing at the time. In SC 2, I've had the same feeling, which leaves me to not being able to play many games in a row before I start insta leaving and only playing 1 mu at a time.
In a sense, perhaps that helps me, though. You have to be able to think long term and not worry about using the build/strat that is going to give you the best shot at winning the current game. If you're at 45% win rate in a mu, it doesn't matter much if you give yourself a 45% chance to win your game; you need to improve it, as that's not acceptable. To do that, that means finding something else. You have to be ok with going from 45% to maybe 10%, in hopes you can end up at, say, 60+% in the long run.
It's like investing versus going for instant gratification. Playing against diamond level zergs is > than devoting practice time to a lesser priority. If you've done something before, you can do it again. Getting the points/mmr back isn't a problem. And if you already know you're going to win a mu before it starts, there's not much to gain from that time. I'm surprised more people don't opt to practice 1 mu at a time.
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Dang, you sound like a whiny asshole. Waste of blog space. I'd suggest you try focusing on your own attitude instead of blaming your surroundings for your situation.
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robbed me of my hopes and dreams by taking that one gm spot
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On July 12 2013 05:31 CecilSunkure wrote:
Dang, you sound like a whiny asshole. Waste of blog space. I'd suggest you try focusing on your own attitude instead of blaming your surroundings for your situation.
word.
if jaedong has the "same mmr as the people you're beating" aren't you saying that you're at the same level? You're quite delusional to think that everyone in NA is also around the same level. You say you beat the best in NA but you're just underestimating the skill gap.
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sc2 very easy if you are or were a top broodwar player and you say you were , so that the reason he got gm easy i think .
i got gm too in sc2 , under 1k game playing very casualy but zerg was op before exp so that realy less something im proud , did not even tell more that 5 people and stoped sc2 because the game was to easy and boring .
after that you either need go pro , or waste your time , being gm mean nothing and you are wasting your life and money .
i was B+ iccup server and very high gamei ( very more old )
most people in sc2 are terrible , i know many pro gamer who i was 4x better that them in broodwar and they are top sc2 player now...
but at the same time very good broodwar player did very bad in sc2... but i alway find strange that people who got ZERO TALENT in broodwar are now top sc2 player....
broodwar was more a brain game with tactic , and sc2 a fps rts where you need to be fast ,react in under 2 sec , the first one a better rts.
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On July 12 2013 07:45 Abstinence wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 05:31 CecilSunkure wrote:
Dang, you sound like a whiny asshole. Waste of blog space. I'd suggest you try focusing on your own attitude instead of blaming your surroundings for your situation. word. if jaedong has the "same mmr as the people you're beating" aren't you saying that you're at the same level? You're quite delusional to think that everyone in NA is also around the same level. You say you beat the best in NA but you're just underestimating the skill gap.
Anyone that makes a fuss about a skill gap in SC 2 has not played any high level players in BW. This is child's play. What are they going to do, out macro me hard in SC 2? Maybe I should get a new keyboard if so. It must not be working. Get real. We're talking about small edges that are trumped by decision making and strategies. With all of the hard counter units in this game, unit compositions are more important than this "skill" gap.
In BW, few American players were that much better than anyone else, yet for some reason it's different in SC 2? Obviously, there's going to be even less of a difference now. The most talented American, Day[9], doesn't even play. Suppy? I was in the final 4 with him in the last WCG qualifier for BW. Huk? I used to be on a team with him in BW. These guys have been pros forever and have way more SC 2 games than me, yet I'd still get matched up with them. It makes no sense to act like there's some huge hurdle to overcome in terms of a skill gap.
If you guys haven't noticed, the MMR system kinda places you with equally skilled players. Ofc, I'm rarely going to be amazed by a skill gap if it's a ladder match.
I don't know why people make such a deal about gaps in SC 2. Like in WoL, I heard a masters player should never lose to a diamond player or w/e. I lost to diamond players just the same to masters ones, when I was in masters. If you have holes in your play, you can get exposed by anyone. If you have the answers to strategies, you can beat just about any non Korean. Too much hyperbole. If there were such a skill gap in NA, the top NA players would be winning tournaments against Koreans. Let me know when the last time that happened was.
And to the guy that got GM in under 1k games with Zerg... tell me you're still playing. That's freaking ridiculous.
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It still seems like you are trying to say you are on equal footing with a lot of mid-tier pros. Then prove it. Go into the WCS AM (or w/e region) qualifier next season. After you get shit-stomped in the early rounds, maybe then you'll understand that ranking on ladder (especially AM ladder) has almost zero relevance to how good you, in a professional sense.
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On July 12 2013 10:45 HardlyNever wrote:
It still seems like you are trying to say you are on equal footing with a lot of mid-tier pros. Then prove it. Go into the WCS AM (or w/e region) qualifier next season. After you get shit-stomped in the early rounds, maybe then you'll understand that ranking on ladder (especially AM ladder) has almost zero relevance to how good you, in a professional sense.
Playing WCS AM is a waste of time. I'd rather just ladder. I played the first one, and in the first round I got a previous GSL Korean... Unless you're obligated to play in WCS NA, due to being on a team, I don't believe players should bother playing. It's killing the NA scene and only a a few players, if that, even have a shot of qualifying. If you don't have a realistic shot of qualifying and Blizzard is pissing on you, then maybe you should stop saying "hey, I'll be there tomorrow for you to piss on me." Guess what, it's never going to stop. Blizzard is throwing a ball and we're dogs chasing it. I'd rather not be their amusement.
I'm horrible and have no apm. But if Future is a mid tier pro, then yeah, I'm better. I don't know what your arbitrary distinctions are, but if the NA isn't winning anything, I couldn't care less whether I was on equal footing or not. In the grand scheme of things, I still would be far from good enough, and I may as well be a diamond player. Bad is bad; I'll let you worry about what tier of bad. The only difference between ladder and tournaments is you need to have more builds prepared. Don't get me wrong, it's very important, but if you're in a team, you practice for that kind of thing. A bronze player doesn't become a gold player in a tournament, and a rank w/e GM doesn't suddenly play like a number 1 GM just because it's "tournament time."
Ladder rank doesn't mean much for players that aren't going to win anything in NA. You're right about that. First and foremost, it's "personality" and marketability. If you beat top NA players, even if having a winning record, it doesn't matter because it wasn't in a tournament. If you win in a tournament... no one cares because "all NA players are bad." Yet, here we are, discussing how much of a skill gap there is in NA. Does anyone even know who the best player is in NA? I don't.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But in my experiences, I just don't care what non Korean I'm playing against. I find myself winning against certain strategies and losing against certain strategies. That seems to be pretty f'ing consistent. Maybe the good players always use the strategies I'm bad against and vice versa. Maybe that's it.
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On July 11 2013 16:51 playa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 14:32 LuckyFool wrote:
sup playa, glad to see you still around playing!
I will never forget your 5 minute DT into 2base arbiters broodwar PvT build rofl. Sups. I remember running into you on iccup, and you told me I should play SC 2 and why. Fast forward a few years, and to my knowledge, you retired/quit. Did you come back or are you going to? That build was imbalanced on maps where a dt could get to their natural pretty quick. Arbiters were too strong, especially fast ones. Can't afford recall defense (100 turrets) 12 mins into a game, yet can't push against fast stasis. If it's any solace, I never felt good about the wins. I knew it was dirty and the mu wasn't that balanced. As for getting in the games, the first couple of months I played, I was actually working a job where I was traveling around the US, in a hotel 4 days out of the week. I could only play a few days out of the week, when at home. I kinda feel like I have anxiety... so I never really had ladder anxiety: everything is relative, and when people aren't watching you do something and no one even knows who you are, it's pretty easy to hit the find match button. Perfectionism + relaxation = games. If you're a gamer, you find ways to play games.
yeah I remember I always lost to that build. Then I saw G5 wreck it with some troll wraith build but I don't think we ever played again.
And yeah I quit sc2, I started getting bored and playing less and in turn started getting bad. hots was fun for a bit but after a couple months of the beta I was pretty much through. hardly game at all anymore lol
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I feel like the level of competition has significantly dropped on NA (maybe even Korea). I don't feel any better, but it seems easier for me to reach a higher ladder ranking despite not being any better (believe me, I rarely play anymore), on both servers.
Not putting you down (or not intentionally trying to), you would probably be GM in WoL.
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On July 12 2013 13:05 LuckyFool wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 16:51 playa wrote:On July 11 2013 14:32 LuckyFool wrote:
sup playa, glad to see you still around playing!
I will never forget your 5 minute DT into 2base arbiters broodwar PvT build rofl. Sups. I remember running into you on iccup, and you told me I should play SC 2 and why. Fast forward a few years, and to my knowledge, you retired/quit. Did you come back or are you going to? That build was imbalanced on maps where a dt could get to their natural pretty quick. Arbiters were too strong, especially fast ones. Can't afford recall defense (100 turrets) 12 mins into a game, yet can't push against fast stasis. If it's any solace, I never felt good about the wins. I knew it was dirty and the mu wasn't that balanced. As for getting in the games, the first couple of months I played, I was actually working a job where I was traveling around the US, in a hotel 4 days out of the week. I could only play a few days out of the week, when at home. I kinda feel like I have anxiety... so I never really had ladder anxiety: everything is relative, and when people aren't watching you do something and no one even knows who you are, it's pretty easy to hit the find match button. Perfectionism + relaxation = games. If you're a gamer, you find ways to play games. yeah I remember I always lost to that build. Then I saw G5 wreck it with some troll wraith build but I don't think we ever played again. And yeah I quit sc2, I started getting bored and playing less and in turn started getting bad. hots was fun for a bit but after a couple months of the beta I was pretty much through. hardly game at all anymore lol
Haha. I don't know if I remember that One of those repressed memories perhaps. Since every Terran opened with fast CC, I pretty much just tried to counter that and shrugged if 1 guy out of 100 did something weird enough to beat it.
Sad to hear that you quit, not that there appears to be much to play for atm. A big reason for why I did choose to play SC 2 was because of the previous WCS's. Good things can't last forever I guess, but jesus this is brutal.
I find myself enjoying HotS quite a bit. I don't know if it's because people aren't playing their race correctly or not, but this game actually seems a lot more balanced to me than BW ever did. T vs P was so stressful and playing it at a decent level was far harder than anything you could do in SC 2. I like a challenge but... it was giving me all I could stomach, for sure. I also don't miss sending workers to mine.
Plus, you'd hear stories about how bad the old school BW players were. It's kinda nice to actually play in a period where a game isn't figured out and you can actually get ahead. It's neat to see players like Nony, who only seemed to copy others in BW, doing their own thing in SC 2. Creativity is rewarded more.
I hope you give it another shot. HotS is a lot better than WoL, to me, but I don't play Terran.. Any Terran player that has beat day[9] is nothing short of a hero in my book.
To snixsnipe: I wasn't feeling very confident in WoL. Everyone has a different personality/style they're comfortable with, and I just felt like WoL was a "caveman game." Me angry, me attack. That's all I saw/heard. As someone that doesn't do all-ins, who isn't the best micro player, and is in love with teching fast, it was kind of a nightmare for me. I was going to have to either start all-in'ing people, or I was going to have to start making sentries in the early game...
HotS pretty much buffed my style and nerfed the things I was weakest against. I got real lucky and don't really have an excuse for being bad. Perhaps HotS helped you out to some degree. I tried playing a few T vs Z games in WoL... and I don't know if I've ever seen anything that was that imbalanced before. I was beating master players in t vs p, yet I couldn't even beat plat Zerg players, even though it wasn't that different, style wise from BW T vs Z. I think that mu is a complete 180 now.
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EPT
