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Daily Ladder-age #38: A more refined PvZ build

Blogs > Sir.Phalanx
Post a Reply
Sir.Phalanx
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Japan195 Posts
June 15 2013 11:52 GMT
#1
Hello again people, nice to see you and all the usual routine. Welcome. Ya know, that stuff. So today I was going to go onto the ladder and test out my one oracle expand build.. but then I ended up finishing my daily session of gaming with a new, very different, and very powerful (i think) build.

Before I even start I need to give a huge, huge shout out to [IrNWiL] manmarine. I came across him in a random ladder game when trying out my build, and for the next hour or two he helped immensely to both make my build better and provide me with practice against a variety of strategies from the zerg. This build would be nothing like what I'll be writing out without him, I'm really happy that I came across this great guy.

Now, on to explain my new and improved PvZ build!!!

I guess I should give it some sort of name... I'm no good with naming.
Lets just call it something generic, like Phalanx's fast 4base opener.

What the Fuck is it?
+ Show Spoiler +

To put out it's most characteristic aspect, in this build the protoss creates 4 bases by 7 minutes or even sooner (nexus created at ~7). Starting off with a fairly weak gateway expand, this build quickly expands even more while utilizing fast teching to stargates to defend it. The build thus far seems to be very flexible to respond to what the enemy is doing (as long as you scout!) and more often than not seems like it'll put you in an economic advantage. If all 4 bases are successfully secured, it can make way for that beautifully strong skytoss deathball.


How the Fuck does it work!?
+ Show Spoiler +

Once again, the basics of the build is to start out with a gateway expand. Favoring a gateway expand over forge fast expand helps to speed up my tech, and it also costs a little bit less (150 minerals not-spent on forge). The gateway and cybernetics core need to be placed at your expansion's choke point to create the potential to wall off in the case the zerg decides to go all-in on you (I had several trials to try to beat a speedling all-in after starting with my build). As soon as it's affordable a stargate is purchased,

[image loading]
You actually shouldn't wall off completely like in this picture, if you're walled off your probe can't move out

Once your stargate finishes up is when this build really starts to get along. Your 3rd base will go down at 6:30, right after your first oracle starts building. This oracle needs to be used to scout hard as well as harass if possible. Reacting to what your enemy is doing is extremely critical in greedy builds like this one.

[image loading]
Probe moving out, a little bit slow on this pic.

Your 4th nexus is created right after your 3rd, using the same probe if possible. Mainly due to travel time, the 4th seems to go down at about 7 minutes as far as I've seen. Your first few oracles are needed to defend yourself. Later a forge is created, but until then it's the oracles' job to kill off lings trying to deny the expo. Trust me, oracles shred through lings very easily.


Build Fucking order
+ Show Spoiler +

Even now this is still a little bit of a work in progress, I still need to polish it up a bit, but in general this build order is pretty solid.

9 pylon/scout (keep that scout alive!!!)
13 gateway **at natural choke**
15 assim
17 nexus, cybercore, pylon, assimilator
17~18 zealot
Once cybercore finishes build sentry and stargate *maybe build a second sentry if he seems like he's going for fast aggression*
Once stargate finishes Oracle (chrono) to scout or defend
at 6:30 start 3rd nexus, as soon as money provides start 4th nexus
React


Fucking reactions
+ Show Spoiler +

Reactions reactions reactions. If the zerg goes for the highly standard 3base, this build will shine brightest. Your economy will blast out of control allowing for massive production by the time any 3base attacks will hit. Hydra/Roach will be dealt with using oracles and voidrays with some zealots sprinkled in to buy time (my most desired transition after the 4th base goes down is to create a total of 4 stargates). Mutalisks will be dealt with using phoenixes, although the lings will be annoying (if macroing correctly you should be able to easily afford a good number of gateways with 4 bases, mass zealots yo).

[image loading]
You might lose 1 base, but you'll still be far ahead.

The reaction against a speedling all in was probably one of the most practiced ones (not that you'll come across too many speedling all-ins). The timing that I go to get my 3rd/4th base apparently is exactly the same time as when speed finishes. In this case I just need to wall off and hope to survive it, in which case I should be able to walk in and win.

[image loading]
Really though how many zergs go speedling all-in.

Mutas is fairly easy to read, just need to actively use the oracle to scout. Lots and lots of scouting required. Phoenix production will be able to kick in in time to stop mutas, and so far I'm still working on getting down the macro to stop ling attacks at the same time (there's definitely enough money, I just can't use it all while microing my phoenixes hard).


Replays
+ Show Spoiler +

All of the following replays were during practice, in the process of truely discovering the build. I tried my best to only react once I saw the tech, but all strategies were agreed on beforehand for the practice (the one where I hold the speedling all-in I accidentally walled in preemptively).

http://drop.sc/343433
http://drop.sc/343416
http://drop.sc/343427
http://drop.sc/343435
http://drop.sc/343434
http://drop.sc/343432
http://drop.sc/343431


In the coming days I plan on hammering this build out to further perfection, then perhaps post a guide of it on the strategy section. As for now, I give this diamond in the rough out to you people to dick around with. The reactions are tight and defending both bases is VERY tight, but if you have better macro and micro than me you should be able to pull it off. Getting up 4 bases safely against a zerg will probably guarantee you the game, since nothing more awesome than a late game skytoss army. I'll just take this time again to thank my awesome practice partner who selflessly just jumped on and helped me out with the creation of this build.

GL, HF on the ladders, try this stuff out! Have a great day, and the best of luck in your future!


P.S.
Although no longer part of their community, Phalanx continues to support DarkOnyx.
www.facebook.com/DarkOnyxFTW

P.S.S.
Now part of Not A Chance Gaming, Phalanx provides a helpful link for you feeble folks support NAC!!
www.nacgaming.net
www.facebook.com/nacgaming

P.S.S.S
Corgi meets a spring (gif!).

*****
Go to school - Laddder - Sleep - repeat. Who needs a social life anyways.
Salivanth
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia1071 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-15 12:11:16
June 15 2013 12:10 GMT
#2
This is potentially the craziest build I have ever seen.

And I've seen your Tempest rush.

What the FUCK.

Like, how did you even think of this? How did your thought process end up at "Hey, I could totally take four fucking bases in the first seven minutes of the game. That seems like something I should try."
<@Wikt> so you are one of those nega-fans <@Wikt> that hates the company that makes a game and everything they stand for <@Wikt> but still plays the game <@Wikt> (like roughly 30% of blizzard's player base, maybe much more...)
Antylamon
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1981 Posts
June 15 2013 12:26 GMT
#3
My god this build is amazing

I wonder how well Banshees would do
Sir.Phalanx
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Japan195 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-15 12:40:48
June 15 2013 12:40 GMT
#4
haha I take your What the FUCK as praise Salivanth <3

Also Antylamon, I don't think I could pull something like this off against a terran xP
Go to school - Laddder - Sleep - repeat. Who needs a social life anyways.
Salivanth
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia1071 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-15 14:24:01
June 15 2013 14:23 GMT
#5
It is a complex cocktail of about 20% praise, 10% "You're freaking insane" and 70%" What the SHITTING SHIT!?" level confusion.
<@Wikt> so you are one of those nega-fans <@Wikt> that hates the company that makes a game and everything they stand for <@Wikt> but still plays the game <@Wikt> (like roughly 30% of blizzard's player base, maybe much more...)
Emzeeshady
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada4203 Posts
June 15 2013 15:12 GMT
#6
--- Nuked ---
Antylamon
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1981 Posts
June 15 2013 16:30 GMT
#7
On June 15 2013 21:40 Sir.Phalanx wrote:
haha I take your What the FUCK as praise Salivanth <3

Also Antylamon, I don't think I could pull something like this off against a terran xP

I meant as a Terran, lol
Pyloss
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany1515 Posts
June 15 2013 20:02 GMT
#8
This seems to be...strange.
I dont see it working. I ( mid master on EU) even have problems holding my third vs hydra roach. And on Neo Planet, its hard to get the 4. overall in the game, as the expansions are quite far away from each other.
And with oracles u may hold of some lings...but a bunch of Hydras will demolish your oracle/voids.
I only see this working if one base didnt get scouted by the zerg. In dia, this could happen.

And actually, a Speedling all in or a banling bust isn't that rare, i faced 2 of them just today...

But gl trying it out, should be fun in dia.^^
<3 sOs, Parting, Mana, Honor, TaKe, Mcanning<3
Sir.Phalanx
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Japan195 Posts
June 15 2013 22:20 GMT
#9
all you guys seem to be just using my current rank of dia as the only explanation for this having any hope.... but I'm pretty sure that the MMR I'm at is masters level. I haven't actually tried this out yet in many real 1v1 matches so maybe this will still be destined to fail, but we're yet to see that. Please don't just brush this off as just another silly low-league player doing stupid shit that he only can do because his opponent is bad.
Go to school - Laddder - Sleep - repeat. Who needs a social life anyways.
aZealot
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
New Zealand5447 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-16 03:09:47
June 16 2013 03:09 GMT
#10
Even if it does not work as intended, you'll have learned something and maybe refine it into a more workable version.

Good luck, Phalanx!
KT best KT ~ 2014
Pyloss
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany1515 Posts
June 16 2013 13:26 GMT
#11
On June 16 2013 07:20 Sir.Phalanx wrote:
all you guys seem to be just using my current rank of dia as the only explanation for this having any hope.... but I'm pretty sure that the MMR I'm at is masters level. I haven't actually tried this out yet in many real 1v1 matches so maybe this will still be destined to fail, but we're yet to see that. Please don't just brush this off as just another silly low-league player doing stupid shit that he only can do because his opponent is bad.


I'm looking forward to some battel reports from u about that strat!
It wasn't meaned bad in any way, i only think that on high-master level it wont work.
GLHF!
<3 sOs, Parting, Mana, Honor, TaKe, Mcanning<3
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