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On June 10 2013 22:36 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2013 21:30 SomethingWitty wrote:What you said was disrespectful, because of one word you used, "believing". In a pharmaceutical and medical context "belief" means absolutely nothing. Medication, mostly notably, Adderall has extremely helpful effects for people with diagnosed ADHD when a comorbid disorder that was mimicking ADHD was ruled out. For example in this double blind, placebo controlled study of adults with ADHD researchers found that Adderall resulted in 70% of patients have significantly improved ADHD symptoms, while only 7% did with the placebo. Doesn't Adderall work for everyone though? We don't really have it in Sweden, but from what I hear, it's quite common among american students to use Adderall to boost their grades since it helps everyone concentrate and do homework etc better. I mean, a drug letting you concentrate better doesn't mean there's a disease at work. (I'm not denying the existance of ADHD, just saying that your argument is irrelevant).
No, it works far differently for people with ADHD vs people without ADHD. If you'll notice the study noticed a decrease in hyperactivity, inattentiveness and behavioral problems at an average dose of 54mg a day. If you were to give this to a person without ADHD you would see a drastic increase in hyperactivity and behavioral problems that are similar to the ones that people with ADHD have. (I'm not denying the existence of your brains ability to produce rational, evidence based thought, just saying that your argument is stolid).
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On June 11 2013 04:50 SomethingWitty wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2013 22:36 Tobberoth wrote:On June 10 2013 21:30 SomethingWitty wrote:What you said was disrespectful, because of one word you used, "believing". In a pharmaceutical and medical context "belief" means absolutely nothing. Medication, mostly notably, Adderall has extremely helpful effects for people with diagnosed ADHD when a comorbid disorder that was mimicking ADHD was ruled out. For example in this double blind, placebo controlled study of adults with ADHD researchers found that Adderall resulted in 70% of patients have significantly improved ADHD symptoms, while only 7% did with the placebo. Doesn't Adderall work for everyone though? We don't really have it in Sweden, but from what I hear, it's quite common among american students to use Adderall to boost their grades since it helps everyone concentrate and do homework etc better. I mean, a drug letting you concentrate better doesn't mean there's a disease at work. (I'm not denying the existance of ADHD, just saying that your argument is irrelevant). No, it works far differently for people with ADHD vs people without ADHD. If you'll notice the study noticed a decrease in hyperactivity, inattentiveness and behavioral problems at an average dose of 54mg a day. If you were to give this to a person without ADHD you would see a drastic increase in hyperactivity and behavioral problems that are similar to the ones that people with ADHD have. (I'm not denying the existence of your brains ability to produce rational, evidence based thought, just saying that your argument is stolid).
Can't read.
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TL, DR
User was warned for this post
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My nephew suffers from ADHD and that shitbag is a screwed up little dude. 13 now and struggling heavily, having dealt with him all my life (very close family, spent 3 nights a week there for 5 years and was in school with him for a while when he was young, dragged out of class to deal with him too many times to count) I say shitbag lovingly ofc, he cant help it.
I feel you man, chin up and keep positive / trying is all i can say.
Also, people like ghostowl make me want to vomit. To come into a thread like this and say "Your illness is bullshit". So many people take ADD/ADHD drugs for their own benefits (increased concentration) and so many doctors wrongly-diagnose shitfaced kids with it that this disbelief has been born, so many diagnosed with it wrongly people just assume it doesnt exist, the kids are just fucktards. (For instance a friend of a friend claimed benefits for her child having ADHD for years and years, this kid was a lazy cunt who slept with anything from the age of 12 and was constantly drunk and got pregnant at 16, that is not ADD.)
Then the real people who are suffering from it suffer even worse from this fucking stigma.
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On June 11 2013 04:50 SomethingWitty wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2013 22:36 Tobberoth wrote:On June 10 2013 21:30 SomethingWitty wrote:What you said was disrespectful, because of one word you used, "believing". In a pharmaceutical and medical context "belief" means absolutely nothing. Medication, mostly notably, Adderall has extremely helpful effects for people with diagnosed ADHD when a comorbid disorder that was mimicking ADHD was ruled out. For example in this double blind, placebo controlled study of adults with ADHD researchers found that Adderall resulted in 70% of patients have significantly improved ADHD symptoms, while only 7% did with the placebo. Doesn't Adderall work for everyone though? We don't really have it in Sweden, but from what I hear, it's quite common among american students to use Adderall to boost their grades since it helps everyone concentrate and do homework etc better. I mean, a drug letting you concentrate better doesn't mean there's a disease at work. (I'm not denying the existance of ADHD, just saying that your argument is irrelevant). No, it works far differently for people with ADHD vs people without ADHD. If you'll notice the study noticed a decrease in hyperactivity, inattentiveness and behavioral problems at an average dose of 54mg a day. If you were to give this to a person without ADHD you would see a drastic increase in hyperactivity and behavioral problems that are similar to the ones that people with ADHD have. (I'm not denying the existence of your brains ability to produce rational, evidence based thought, just saying that your argument is stolid).
Weird, I find no basis for this anywhere on google, all I can find is that adderall is often abused by college students as a performance enhancer, followed by quotes such as "The notion that Adderall has a unique effect on ADHDers is nonsense. Some people respond differently than others. Whether ADHD is irrelevant."
If it makes "normal" people less able to concentrate, it seems quite dumb to use it as a performance enhancer (and makes it even weirder that the NCAA has banned its use for students who can't prove they have ADHD).
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On June 11 2013 15:59 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2013 04:50 SomethingWitty wrote:On June 10 2013 22:36 Tobberoth wrote:On June 10 2013 21:30 SomethingWitty wrote:What you said was disrespectful, because of one word you used, "believing". In a pharmaceutical and medical context "belief" means absolutely nothing. Medication, mostly notably, Adderall has extremely helpful effects for people with diagnosed ADHD when a comorbid disorder that was mimicking ADHD was ruled out. For example in this double blind, placebo controlled study of adults with ADHD researchers found that Adderall resulted in 70% of patients have significantly improved ADHD symptoms, while only 7% did with the placebo. Doesn't Adderall work for everyone though? We don't really have it in Sweden, but from what I hear, it's quite common among american students to use Adderall to boost their grades since it helps everyone concentrate and do homework etc better. I mean, a drug letting you concentrate better doesn't mean there's a disease at work. (I'm not denying the existance of ADHD, just saying that your argument is irrelevant). No, it works far differently for people with ADHD vs people without ADHD. If you'll notice the study noticed a decrease in hyperactivity, inattentiveness and behavioral problems at an average dose of 54mg a day. If you were to give this to a person without ADHD you would see a drastic increase in hyperactivity and behavioral problems that are similar to the ones that people with ADHD have. (I'm not denying the existence of your brains ability to produce rational, evidence based thought, just saying that your argument is stolid). Weird, I find no basis for this anywhere on google, all I can find is that adderall is often abused by college students as a performance enhancer, followed by quotes such as "The notion that Adderall has a unique effect on ADHDers is nonsense. Some people respond differently than others. Whether ADHD is irrelevant." If it makes "normal" people less able to concentrate, it seems quite dumb to use it as a performance enhancer (and makes it even weirder that the NCAA has banned its use for students who can't prove they have ADHD).
Does Vicodin provide pain relief to mild aches and pains? How about an overall dulling of the sense of touch and pain. Vicodin is abused all the time, but only those who are injured or in alot of pain truly need it right? Do you have to be in pain for an opiate to have its effect?
When I was first prescribed adderall my psychiatrist explained it to me this way.
People with ADHD have an imbalance of dopamine and or norepinephrine. They both influence the brains reward center. Norepinephrine is a stress hormone, that also effects alertness and arousal. The reward system describes the release of these chemicals. When you do something that is rewarding you release dopamine. In ADHD something with the system is presumed to be wrong. Adderall works to increase levels of dopamine and norepinephrine by acting as a dopamine/norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor. By stopping it from being reabsorbed you increase the amount of free dopamine and norepinephrine. This makes things you focus on seem more rewarding as well as making it easier to keep focusing.
The exact mechanisms for its therapeutic action isn't fully understood. ADHD isn't fully understood and I believe the drugs themselves aren't fully understood. Neurotransmitters make the brain a veritable rubik's cube.
So basically, yes it helps other people, that's why its used as a performance enhancer. Only it works in a slighty different way from ADHD patients because the brain is different. It's banned for the same reason vicodin is banned without a prescription. Also, ADHD is not irrelevant there is alot of data supporting its use for ADHD. You really think it would be widely prescribed if they didn't have some notion of its effects? The idea is that it levels out people with ADHD and when people without ADHD have it they experience the same effects only they are probably more strung out.
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EPT
