• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 10:08
CET 16:08
KST 00:08
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !8Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15
StarCraft 2
General
When will we find out if there are more tournament ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump
Tourneys
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1: Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle screp: Command line app to parse SC rep files How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [BSL21] RO8 Bracket & Prediction Contest
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] WB SEMIFINALS - Saturday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO8 - Day 2 - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
The (Hidden) Drug Problem in…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1135 users

Daily Ladder-age #14: Theorizing Proxy Tempest

Blogs > Sir.Phalanx
Post a Reply
Sir.Phalanx
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Japan195 Posts
May 22 2013 09:58 GMT
#1
So my faithful readers (and also those who are unfaithful to me... how dare you sleep with that ludder!)... today's daily will be a little bit different than usual. I don't quite have the time to get a ladder game in due to some commitments I've made to a friend as well as some community service, I'll not actually be reviewing a ladder game of my own today, but rather I will be writing up a theory I have for how a proxy tempest rush cheese could actually be a viable attack.

Call me crazy if you dare, but I believe that a proxy tempest rush is in fact very, very viable against a terran opponent. Why, oh why is this possibly useful? My opinion on why this would be a powerful cheese against terran is for two main reasons. 1) Most terrans proceed along with highly economic, often times greedy builds. This makes them extremely vulnerable to very fast attacks or even very fast tech paths. 2) The tempest is able to 2-shot both the marine and the SCV. This could have unbelievable potential in the early game, given the tempest's siege range. The tempest can shoot down marines and kite back without taking a single shot. The tempest can snipe down SCVs trying to construct a missle turret... and even snipe the missle turret from afar (time consuming).

Now some of you critical folks may still be wondering... what the hell's the point? A tempest can be shot down by a viking no prob-limo. Well, that's the catch in my theory; there is no viking. That's right folks, the viking is in fact a myth and doesn't exist! But no seriously, that's the thing... the tempest that is rushed out and proxied against the terran (and the others that follow shortly after) are capable of 2-shotting the SCVs trying to create gas, are capable of out-ranging any anti-air, and if micro'ed correctly, they can deny the creation of any air units by sniping the SCV constructing the star port. The tempest, if created fast enough and used in an efficient manner, is capable of both harrassing and completely denying the creation of any counter that could be made against it.

Just in case I haven't won you over yet... the last criticism you may have against me is that the tempest can't actually come into play fast enough to do all of these miracles.... Right?

[image loading]
I know you folks just need some pictures... so here you go.

Bam. with completely imperfect macro, a tempest can be out at 6:40. If this build is refined even further, I'm pretty sure that it'll be out much sooner as well (any masters out there, see how fast you can get one out!). Get convinced, people! Please?

Aaaand now I'm out of time to write! I hope that this theory crafting was enough to satisfy any of you people's desire to read this blog, and if you like my stuff, stay tuned for more! Thanks for reading!!!

P.S.
Dark Onyx supports any political views you agree with.
www.facebook.com/DarkOnyxftw

P.S.S
One of the first images on the search "coffee corgi"... I don't knok what I expected.Coffee Corgi

***
Go to school - Laddder - Sleep - repeat. Who needs a social life anyways.
uh-oh
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Hong Kong135 Posts
May 22 2013 12:59 GMT
#2
I used to exclusively do proxy carrier rushes vs terrans when I was in plat, worked pretty well for me XD
Then I did a proxy tempest rush like yours for a funday monday vs a diamond, also worked very nicely :D
now all we have to do is find a way to incoporate carriers/tempests into a macro PvT style......
When I get to grandmasters, you have my permission to die!
Geiko
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France1939 Posts
May 22 2013 13:03 GMT
#3


Funny buuuuut, what happens if the terran player just sets 4 scvs to auto repair while he gets a viking ?
geiko.813 (EU)
uh-oh
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Hong Kong135 Posts
May 22 2013 13:38 GMT
#4
On May 22 2013 22:03 Geiko wrote:


Funny buuuuut, what happens if the terran player just sets 4 scvs to auto repair while he gets a viking ?


Thats why proxy carrier is superior :D
My BO goes like this
9 pylon
13 gate
14 gas
15 gas
17 pylon(non stop probe+chrono until you get cyber core)
18 cyber core, send probe to proxy pylon

resume probes until you have 24

proxy pylon when cyber core is half way done

stalker(no chrono) then stargate once cyber core's done

+1 air weapons asap

26 1x gateway

fleet beacon once stargate is done

dump minerals into 2 gate zealot, no chronos

carrier when you can afford it, constant chrono(should start at around 6:00 to 6:20, earlier if you skip stalker, assuming your chronos are constant, the carrier will arrive at around 7:30)

graviton catapult when you can afford it

send your gateway forces(1 stalker, 4-5 zealots) to front of enemy base

7:30 CARRIER HAS ARRIVED, bust the front bunker with everything you've got and if your gateway forces have evaporated and there are still >6 marines left over in the front, send the carrier into the main, make sure your interceptors are attacking something(depots/reactors/researching tech labs) while the carrier is heading towards the mineral line.

During all this you should be chronoing out a second carrier, getting a second stargate after the second carrier begins, rallying zealots nonstop and getting warp gate

You should be able to kill at least 6 scvs before your carrier has to fly away and regen shields/rebuild interceptors. Go in again when the second carrier is out, focus down any vikings and use the terran's building placement against the marines(fly over rows of raxes to evade marines while carriers are still killing them) once you can park them over the production facilities you win!

If he goes heavy turret defense, expand, mix in some tempests and start blasting down everything

Fun facts:

A +1 carrier can a-move and win vs 8 marines targeting the carrier itself with no upgrades, if micro'd(kiting while still attacking), a carrier can kill 8 combat shielded marines

A +1 carrier can a-move and win vs 3 vikings with no upgrades

A +1 carrier does around 30 dps to enemies with no armor

A carrier takes 120 seconds to complete, you can chrono it 4 times and it comes out in 80 seconds

Graviton catapult takes 60 seconds to finish

Carrier can attack while moving, launched interceptors can attack any target within 14 range while the carrier is moving(requires manual targeting) without recalling any interceptors, interceptors inside the carrier can be launched and attack anything within 8 range while the carrier is moving(only needs a-move) without recalling any interceptors

Happy cheeses :D
When I get to grandmasters, you have my permission to die!
Salivanth
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia1071 Posts
May 22 2013 14:01 GMT
#5
I managed to get the first Tempest out at 6:25, with a 24-probe economy and 2 gates to warp in support Zealots. (Alternate, more trollish approach, build a Forge instead of the second Gate, and make cannons with your extra minerals to make a fallback position for your Tempests.)

Here's the replay. You can probably refine this further if you work at it, this is my very first successful execution of the build, and you'll notice I stop and start things several times, not knowing if I can afford it on top of Tempest production. I may be a Master, but my macro isn't impeccable, especially when I just made up the build fifteen minutes ago.

http://drop.sc/336325

The important things to note:

14 Gas. You should be able to do this WITHOUT CUTTING PROBES if your mineral pairing is good. Mineral pairing like this will help train you for literally any build you ever do, ever. Any build that opens gas (i.e, anything that isn't a proxy gate or Nexus first) in PvT should be a 14 Gas, not a 15 Gas, since you can afford it without a probe cut.

Pylon should go down at exactly 100 minerals. Your probe should be in a good position to proxy at this precise time.

Be sure to Chronoboost the Tempest twice. Two CB's is exactly the length of a Tempest being built. You can probably spend less CB's on probes in order to have two Tempests out at 7:05, and get the 24 probes slightly slower.
<@Wikt> so you are one of those nega-fans <@Wikt> that hates the company that makes a game and everything they stand for <@Wikt> but still plays the game <@Wikt> (like roughly 30% of blizzard's player base, maybe much more...)
Sir.Phalanx
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Japan195 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-22 14:06:47
May 22 2013 14:04 GMT
#6
On May 22 2013 22:03 Geiko wrote:


Funny buuuuut, what happens if the terran player just sets 4 scvs to auto repair while he gets a viking ?


I'd say that one of the challenges for the terran player may be to react correctly to the tempest... but if need be, the tempest could be used to focus down marines instead. If the tempest can focus down enough marines, some sort of gateway follow up could definitely be a possibility (I haven't actually properly macro'ed yet, so I don't know the full extent as for how many gateways can be prepared by the time a tempest starts attacking).

Of course, this is all theory... who knows if this actually will work as well as I expect.

THAT'S WHY I HAVE TOMORROW! HAHAHAHAHA!!!


Edit: Oh oh I got reminded something by Salivianth's mentioning of 2 tempests; mass repair on SCVs is irrelevant when you have 2 tempests because they will be able to 1-shot an SCV, leaving no time to repair!
Go to school - Laddder - Sleep - repeat. Who needs a social life anyways.
Salivanth
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia1071 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-22 15:10:37
May 22 2013 15:06 GMT
#7
I tested your gateway idea myself, and I came up with a follow-up idea. The idea is to go up to four Tempests ASAP (Four Tempests one-shot a Viking. More seems unnecessary) and make Zealots out of a single gateway while doing this. Then you throw up three more gates, in time to warp units in with the money you no longer need for Tempests as Tempest production stops. I made a replay of this, and managed to get four Tempests, four Stalkers, and four Zealots out by 9 minutes. Seems like a very powerful follow-up push, and the build flows beautifully. Imagine trying to defend your natural against 8-12 gateway units, AND your main against a Tempest fleet that can one-shot a Viking! Especially with the Tempests sniping Marines continuously.

Here's a replay against the AI.

http://drop.sc/336338

Keeping the Tempests alive with this build will probably be absolutely essential, since reaching that magic number will be extremely useful against SCV-backed Vikings. I'm guessing that conservative play with the Tempests will be the right move here. If you can snipe Stim research with the Tempests, I imagine this will become much stronger.
<@Wikt> so you are one of those nega-fans <@Wikt> that hates the company that makes a game and everything they stand for <@Wikt> but still plays the game <@Wikt> (like roughly 30% of blizzard's player base, maybe much more...)
MysteryMeat1
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States3292 Posts
May 22 2013 16:24 GMT
#8
Huk did a carrier build on his stream the other day.
"Cause ya know, Style before victory." -The greatest mafia player alive
Sir.Phalanx
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Japan195 Posts
May 22 2013 21:10 GMT
#9
>:D Seems like you've been doing your stuff well Salivanth... Gonna check out that replay and try it on the ladder tonight!
Go to school - Laddder - Sleep - repeat. Who needs a social life anyways.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
14:00
King of the Hill #234
SteadfastSC54
Liquipedia
WardiTV 2025
11:00
Playoffs
Clem vs CreatorLIVE!
Scarlett vs Spirit
ShoWTimE vs Cure
WardiTV1517
ComeBackTV 1172
TaKeTV 427
IndyStarCraft 233
Rex137
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko599
IndyStarCraft 233
Harstem 194
Rex 137
ProTech84
RotterdaM 68
SteadfastSC 54
Liquid`VortiX 42
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 31074
Calm 5213
Rain 2268
Bisu 2011
Horang2 1062
Stork 860
actioN 833
BeSt 414
Shuttle 333
firebathero 270
[ Show more ]
Larva 268
Mini 178
ggaemo 173
Mind 115
Hyun 101
Killer 91
hero 86
Snow 77
Zeus 74
Aegong 65
JYJ 64
Barracks 59
ToSsGirL 48
Bale 46
Shinee 40
soO 38
Mong 27
zelot 25
910 20
ajuk12(nOOB) 18
Terrorterran 15
GoRush 15
sorry 15
scan(afreeca) 14
JulyZerg 14
Yoon 12
Sacsri 11
SilentControl 5
Dota 2
Gorgc5061
singsing3841
qojqva1615
XcaliburYe110
LuMiX1
League of Legends
C9.Mang0371
Counter-Strike
allub314
oskar114
Other Games
B2W.Neo1655
hiko545
crisheroes421
Fuzer 329
XaKoH 112
djWHEAT68
Trikslyr27
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 9
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HeavenSC 17
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis2243
Upcoming Events
Big Brain Bouts
1h 52m
YoungYakov vs Jumy
TriGGeR vs Spirit
The PiG Daily
5h 52m
SHIN vs ByuN
Reynor vs Classic
TBD vs herO
Maru vs SHIN
TBD vs Classic
CranKy Ducklings
18h 52m
WardiTV 2025
19h 52m
Reynor vs MaxPax
SHIN vs TBD
Solar vs herO
Classic vs TBD
SC Evo League
21h 22m
Ladder Legends
1d 3h
BSL 21
1d 4h
Sziky vs Dewalt
eOnzErG vs Cross
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 18h
Ladder Legends
2 days
BSL 21
2 days
StRyKeR vs TBD
Bonyth vs TBD
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
ByuN vs Solar
Clem vs Classic
Cure vs herO
Reynor vs MaxPax
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Offline Finals
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 1
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.