• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 20:57
CET 02:57
KST 10:57
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview6RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4) BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced
Tourneys
RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! Tenacious Turtle Tussle 2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament StarCraft2.fi 15th Anniversary Cup
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night
Brood War
General
[BSL21] RO8 Bracket & Prediction Contest BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle Let's talk about Metropolis
Tourneys
[ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO8 - Day 2 - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO8 - Day 1 - Saturday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Fighting Spirit mining rates Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Dawn of War IV Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
How Sleep Deprivation Affect…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1746 users

I love the hype of HotS, but it WONT last - Page 2

Blogs > Chiyosuke
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
HeavenResign
Profile Joined April 2011
United States702 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-20 20:11:54
March 20 2013 18:56 GMT
#21
The "meta" isn't truly changing if it's being artificially changed by constant patch changes. That's the game itself being changed. I don't think you understand what the term "meta game" actually is, Artosis tries to detail it in this blog post.

http://scdojo.tumblr.com/post/34233737871/mapping-out-the-metagame

The goal of SC2 should be no more patches and a rotating map pool. I don't know how else to put it - your last idea is flat out bad. If there are continued holes in design perhaps LotV should add new units (Blizz have mentioned that when originally conceived LotV wouldn't necessarily add new multiplayer units), but otherwise trends will develop based on common play styles, and new trends will develop in response. This is evident in BW and even SC2, it's just a lot of the strongest strategies weren't super fun to watch in WoL and I think with HotS that will change.

If you want to play other games, cool. They aren't Starcraft and what makes those other games great isn't necessarily what makes Starcraft great.

I have a feeling this blog is baiting responses based on the sensationalist title, but perhaps this won't fall on deaf ears.

Chiyosuke
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States51 Posts
March 20 2013 21:02 GMT
#22
You get +1 armor by getting an earlier gas and building an evo chamber. It's already within the game's constraints and the only thing holding you back is a lack of mechanics.


What I'm providing are examples, there are other things that can be integrated, like extra HP on units, increased movement speed, attack speed, etc, it doesn't necessarily have to be what I was stating.

You would need time to see the map and make the proper talent adjustments before going into the game, otherwise you're risking players subjecting themselves to inappropriate talent choices.


Very true, but with the map pool that has been presented within the past couple of years, the talent pool would be easily chosen once players were able to get used to it.

your last idea is flat out bad

I really hope my idea is bad; I want to be proven wrong on this. It's just I have a feeling that during the next couple of years it will be a repeat of what had happened in WoL. Game is released and there's a huge fuss around it -> Players understand the game and do the same strat -> Game starts to be boring and player base drops to something else.

this blog is baiting responses

I just want readers. If everything that I typed is wrong I'm one of the happiest people on this planet because a game that I love will continue onto further generations.

Again, I just want people to do anything that they can in order to keep this game alive. I don't care by what means. I don't give a damn if anything that I wrote down was implemented or not. I just don't want to see this game lose a large player base because of the same thing twice
Sentenal
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States12398 Posts
March 20 2013 21:13 GMT
#23
On March 20 2013 12:41 Chiyosuke wrote:
Show nested quote +
BW was magical because even with its "static unit pool" there were moments where players would figure out something new that destroys the current trends (Bisu build, Fantasy Build, etc)


I also understand that BW was amazing, but from what I have heard the community was much much smaller than what it is today. E-sports is appealing a much wider audience now, and I just wanted to try and think of ways to appeal to as many people into the game as possible.

BW was alot smaller in the foreigner scene, but it was still active and healthy. I remember the first 2 TSLs were extremely well done, although in general, there just wasn't any money in Foreign BW. In Korea, BW was anything but small. BW was able to enjoy over 10 years of success due to constantly changing/evolving maps, and incredibly high skill ceiling, and just the depth of the game itself. Whether or not BW was some sort of cosmic accident that will be impossible to reproduce again, we may never know.
"Apparently, Sentenal is a paragon of friendship and tolerance. " - Ech0ne
Futabot
Profile Joined October 2011
United States37 Posts
March 20 2013 23:36 GMT
#24
[B]On March 21 2013 06:02 Chiyosuke wrote:
What I'm providing are examples, there are other things that can be integrated, like extra HP on units, increased movement speed, attack speed, etc, it doesn't necessarily have to be what I was stating.

Very true, but with the map pool that has been presented within the past couple of years, the talent pool would be easily chosen once players were able to get used to it.


What you're proposing are upgrades that have no actual cost in game. You're going to have to design a buff that cannot be balanced through an in-match resource cost, whether its tech, raw resources or time. It's a lot harder to balance things you can't adjust with other variables. It doesn't matter if they have an upgrade counterpart or not.

League gets away with the rune and talent system because one of them is a source of player progress and the other helps wiggle around in the limited play style changes, but I have really yet to see any large majority of players stick with League solely because of talents/runes. It sounds like a cool feature, but then it ceases to be a highlight after a while. In the end, solid play will emerge victorious over gimmicky talent-builds, and the players excited by the feature will likely realize that the feature doesn't fix their fundamental boredom with actually learning the game.

As for the maps, we're talking about ladder, not a tournament pool. You don't get to pick exactly what map you're on, so they would have to implement a secondary game lobby for each match after joining. Given the complexity of SC2, you're probably also going to have to change talents based on what race you're facing as well. We're adding at least 20 seconds onto every game join for basically nothing.

In the end, stick to upgrade design space. More isn't better, really.
One rax. One pylon.
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 33m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 837
LaStScan 210
NaDa 69
Hm[arnc] 14
Dota 2
canceldota224
monkeys_forever150
League of Legends
JimRising 436
C9.Mang0301
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox291
Other Games
summit1g8613
Mew2King87
SpeCial41
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1375
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 80
• HeavenSC 44
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21329
League of Legends
• Doublelift5411
Other Games
• imaqtpie3730
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
2h 33m
Classic vs Reynor
herO vs Zoun
WardiTV 2025
11h 3m
herO vs ShoWTimE
SHIN vs herO
Clem vs herO
SHIN vs Clem
SHIN vs ShoWTimE
Clem vs ShoWTimE
IPSL
15h 3m
Sziky vs JDConan
BSL 21
18h 3m
Tech vs Cross
Bonyth vs eOnzErG
Replay Cast
1d 7h
Wardi Open
1d 10h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 15h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
SC Evo League
6 days
BSL 21
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Revival: Season 3
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
WardiTV 2025
RSL Offline Finals
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.