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United States24612 Posts
Something I often get asked (and was just asked on IRC) is what jobs you can get when you study physics. I'm going to address this issue entirely from a U.S. perspective.
The first answer usually given, and one I often comment on, is teaching. For some, studying physics + education is perfect: it's what I chose to do. It definitely has its drawbacks, and physics teachers aren't as in-demand as they used to be. Still, this can be a solid route to take if you love physics.
Then comes the problem... "what else?" I've been reading sections from various websites addressing physics jobs. They all seems to say the same thing: physics is a great thing to learn; it helps you think, and the tools you pickup are invaluable in many different fields. This is true. It is pretty simple: more physics = better. These online resources all seem to be neglecting the other part of this though: with just physics (say, a bachelors), you can't do much. If you study architecture, then also having a physics degree is great. If you have a finance degree, then having a lot of physics coursework is wonderful and your employers will love it. Engineers (electrical, mechanics, civil, aerospace, etc) who are strong in physics are probably good and happy engineers, who are well received at interviews.
To put it another way, for someone who is a physics undergrad and doesn't want to do get a phd (which will take roughly 5-7 years, I believe), what are their non-academic options, besides becoming a high school teacher? I hear that physics grads are paid better than anyone else. I hear that physics grads go into a diverse group of fields such as (taken from physics.org):
- Communication
- Environmental
- Space
- Energy
- Medicine
- Architecture/Civil Engeering
- Law & Finance
- Sports and Games
- Music and Television
- Transportation
Is any of this actually available to a physics grad after they get their bachelors? Doesn't virtually all of this require additional degrees, or at least large amounts of coursework? Am I missing something?
note: one thing I left out is that you can get a masters: this makes you applicable for adjunct teaching positions in higher education... but I think this is rarely a career choice people make, except out of necessity.
 
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Good blog! I knew someone who had extensive physics training, and did a lot of work in computation. All the experience he got from coding physics simulations, he eventually moved on to be a software engineer in a field unrelated to science. Granted he picked up all his experience in a PhD and postdoc positions.
One misconception I had going into undergrad is that I was really focused on my own major (chem), so I tried to get as much relevant information out of my coursework so I could move on to do something chemistry related. I found the world is very multidiscplinary, so its worth to explore other topics and just focus on building technical skills such as coding, lab techniques, and otherwise to make yourself look employable.
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Out of own experience with Physics courses; if you manage to get a good physics degree, most jobs will be easily approachable, just because of your ability to access and solve problems.
edit: If you think about it, it is obvious, pretty much everything you mentioned is existing because of brilliant physicist.
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I'm seeing a lot of job entries for "optics engineer" when I search monster.com with "BS physics".
My guess would be a niche engineering position that you can't directly get a degree in. Then once you get experience you can move into standard engineering or software positions.
btw, if you learn LabVIEW there is a whole market out there for control, test automation, etc. I know for a fact that you can make a career out of that if you desire to.
I think test engineering is a viable path for those with a BS in physics.
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United States24612 Posts
On March 09 2013 15:54 gaymon wrote:
Out of own experience with Physics courses; if you manage to get a good physics degree, most jobs will be easily approachable, just because of your ability to access and solve problems.
edit: If you think about it, it is obvious, pretty much everything you mentioned is existing because of brilliant physicist.
You sound just like these websites I mentioned. Exactly which jobs are approachable without additional training beyond a bachelors in physics? It's easy to say how wonderfully qualified physics grads are, but I just can't find evidence to back it up.
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On March 09 2013 16:35 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 15:54 gaymon wrote:
Out of own experience with Physics courses; if you manage to get a good physics degree, most jobs will be easily approachable, just because of your ability to access and solve problems.
edit: If you think about it, it is obvious, pretty much everything you mentioned is existing because of brilliant physicist. You sound just like these websites I mentioned. Exactly which jobs are approachable without additional training beyond a bachelors in physics? It's easy to say how wonderfully qualified physics grads are, but I just can't find evidence to back it up.
Cant really answer that question because i have no idea how the job-market looks like and what skills are actually needed but that was just an estimation.
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United States24612 Posts
On March 09 2013 15:57 fight_or_flight wrote:
I'm seeing a lot of job entries for "optics engineer" when I search monster.com with "BS physics".
My guess would be a niche engineering position that you can't directly get a degree in. Then once you get experience you can move into standard engineering or software positions.
btw, if you learn LabVIEW there is a whole market out there for control, test automation, etc. I know for a fact that you can make a career out of that if you desire to.
I think test engineering is a viable path for those with a BS in physics.
I'm doing some searching along these lines and so far everything requires experience or academic specialization. It's late so I'll look more deeply tomorrow, but maybe you could show a couple of examples? As for labview I should read up on that.
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it seems to me that a lot of pure science degrees are kind of in the same boat. Great you have a bachelors in chemistry what are my options beside lab work and teaching?
There more often springboards for doctors and stuff.
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It doesn't have to be additional coursework. It could be involvement in undergrad research that employers find attractive.
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I think with a degree in physics you are about on the same footing as an engineer when it comes to the same kind of jobs. Those that have trouble getting a job are those who have picked courses, projects and work experience more geared towards academia. As with most education, if you first start thinking about what you want to do after your schooling after you're done, it's going to be harder to get a job afterwards.
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Not to say doing physics is useless, i mean if you wanna study it, i guess it's not problem. But from a graduate perspective, it's not really time-efficient, as in, the work that you put in (physics isn't all that easy) doesn't pay off as much as you would expect. For medicine and law, employers look at your marks for your med and law degree along with work experience (if any) related to the industry. For law, extra curricular activities are taken into consideration, so whether or not you did a physics degree doesn't matter.
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As a future Physics student; I'd like to know as well.
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Physics grads are paid better than anyone else? I'm highly suspicious of that fact. You can do a lot with a physics degree, but usually it boils down to some kind of programming or engineering. In both cases, the average physics grad is going to be earning less than the average CS or engineering grad.
On the other hand, there are a lot of physics Phds earning incredible amounts of money in finance. But again, if finance is what you're aiming for, you're still better off getting your degree in finance.
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moktira
Ireland1542 Posts
There are a lot of jobs in industry that hire people with physics degrees. Right now photonics is pretty big business and it's mostly physicists who are hired (check out the Tyndall Institute in Ireland for example, probably most of the companies associated with it would also hire physicists). One of my physics lecturers worked for a photonics company in Silicon Valley. A good few of my friends went into photonics.
Lab technician jobs do not require PhDs either. You can also get jobs in observatories, one of my friends did this for 6 months in the Canary Islands after his degree.
There are also research jobs that are not destined for pure academia, these will often require you begin doing a PhD but will pay you while you are doing it so it's effectively a job with a large amount of further training.
I'm pretty sure the IOP did something before about physicists working as opticians before. Also radiologists in hospitals are often physicists who received on-the-job training, I considered applying for a job in that before I decided to do a PhD, I heard later that the person who got it was a physics graduate.
Of the people I know who did physics and didn't do a PhD; one got a job with Intel, another in Sellafield (a nuclear power plant). I also know both gas and electricity companies in Ireland hire people with physics degrees, I imagine this is the same with a lot of energy companies.
Less pure physics jobs you can get are in IT, such as IT consultants for businesses which one of my friends is. Also provided you got competent training in programming software engineering is a possibility. Two of my friends went into finance, one chartered accounting and the other actuary (though he had a masters). Both of these did require further training but that was necessary for finance graduates too. One of my friends also got a job with the Irish radio and television company but the requirement there might have just been a degree and the fact that she did physics may not have been taken into account.
Also one guy in my year got a job with Apple and another does in game support with Blizzard, but again I'm not sure if their degrees in physics had any impact in getting those positions.
And a lot of people I know who did physics did not plan to do a PhD after but changed their minds as they went further with it and there is good funding opportunities for PhDs in physics (in Europe at least).
There's also science journalism but that most likely would involve extra courses, still, we need better science media correspondents.
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I went to an engineering school and had one physics major friend. He went on to be a graduate research assistant at Los Alamos National Lab for a few years then went to John Hopkins APL to be an analyst. As to what he actually does, he can't tell me without killing me. Or something to do with E Coli. It does pay pretty well, approaching 100k for government work with a few years experience, but probably the money is in consulting.
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As it's the most difficult major after Mathematics, don't worry. I have a friend who studied Physics and he is now a strategy consultant. All the business stuff is just details that you learn on the job anyway, If you are able to study physics, you could have studied anything else. It's basically a 4 year long IQ test. Not all employers know this but the interesting ones do. So what you've proven by getting a degree in Physics is that you have a big brain. This alone can get you hired in many places.
What you may lack is detailed knowledge or specific skills. However, there are many opportunities to become an excellent programmer during an undergrad. You can also do a minor in finance ( and ace it since you can do physics ) or chemistry. You can also go towards engineering. This way you will get the best of both worlds.
In summary, physics is a godly degree. You can have many options that CS/Engineering/Business majors have, but you also have a lot of opportunities that they don't.
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United States24612 Posts
On March 09 2013 19:44 moktira wrote:
There are a lot of jobs in industry that hire people with physics degrees. Right now photonics is pretty big business and it's mostly physicists who are hired (check out the Tyndall Institute in Ireland for example, probably most of the companies associated with it would also hire physicists). One of my physics lecturers worked for a photonics company in Silicon Valley. A good few of my friends went into photonics.
Lab technician jobs do not require PhDs either. You can also get jobs in observatories, one of my friends did this for 6 months in the Canary Islands after his degree.
There are also research jobs that are not destined for pure academia, these will often require you begin doing a PhD but will pay you while you are doing it so it's effectively a job with a large amount of further training.
I'm pretty sure the IOP did something before about physicists working as opticians before. Also radiologists in hospitals are often physicists who received on-the-job training, I considered applying for a job in that before I decided to do a PhD, I heard later that the person who got it was a physics graduate.
Of the people I know who did physics and didn't do a PhD; one got a job with Intel, another in Sellafield (a nuclear power plant). I also know both gas and electricity companies in Ireland hire people with physics degrees, I imagine this is the same with a lot of energy companies.
Less pure physics jobs you can get are in IT, such as IT consultants for businesses which one of my friends is. Also provided you got competent training in programming software engineering is a possibility. Two of my friends went into finance, one chartered accounting and the other actuary (though he had a masters). Both of these did require further training but that was necessary for finance graduates too. One of my friends also got a job with the Irish radio and television company but the requirement there might have just been a degree and the fact that she did physics may not have been taken into account.
Also one guy in my year got a job with Apple and another does in game support with Blizzard, but again I'm not sure if their degrees in physics had any impact in getting those positions.
And a lot of people I know who did physics did not plan to do a PhD after but changed their minds as they went further with it and there is good funding opportunities for PhDs in physics (in Europe at least).
There's also science journalism but that most likely would involve extra courses, still, we need better science media correspondents.
This is a great post. Unfortunately, I can't find any evidence to support many of the claims (this may just be my fault). I've been searching all morning for job listings which accept entry level physics grads, and am coming up with almost nothing. I found a few things which require very specialized knowledge, a few things which require years of experience, a few things which require a strong programming background, and other things which block the typical physics grad despite listing a physics bachelors as a possible qualifying credential.
I didn't find much for lab technicians, although I'll keep looking. I haven't searched for observatories as those tend to be far away from where you/I live. Maybe I'm just not good at job searching, and am missing lots of great examples.
It seems like the biggest hurdle to getting a job for a physics graduate is if they don't know a lot of coding...
On March 09 2013 20:19 Tommie wrote:
As it's the most difficult major after Mathematics, don't worry. I have a friend who studied Physics and he is now a strategy consultant. All the business stuff is just details that you learn on the job anyway, If you are able to study physics, you could have studied anything else. It's basically a 4 year long IQ test. Not all employers know this but the interesting ones do. So what you've proven by getting a degree in Physics is that you have a big brain. This alone can get you hired in many places.
What you may lack is detailed knowledge or specific skills. However, there are many opportunities to become an excellent programmer during an undergrad. You can also do a minor in finance ( and ace it since you can do physics ) or chemistry. You can also go towards engineering. This way you will get the best of both worlds.
In summary, physics is a godly degree. You can have many options that CS/Engineering/Business majors have, but you also have a lot of opportunities that they don't.
This sounds great but I can't find these opportunities! If I can find a few job listings that match what we are discussing, I can point people to them and be like "see, if you search around you will find stuff..." but so far I can't find the stuff myself.
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This sounds great but I can't find these opportunities! If I can find a few job listings that match what we are discussing, I can point people to them and be like "see, if you search around you will find stuff..." but so far I can't find the stuff myself.
From what I read on different boards(read reddit) on the same topic. It seems that there is a difference between the job market for Physicists in Europe and the US. My view is that company's in Europe are more willing to train Phycists because there is a lack of engineers(in the Netherlands at least) and pretty much everyone that studies at a University in the Netherlands/Europe won't stop after his bachelors but will atleast get a Masters. Anyway, maybe just try applying for any job which seems as if it could fit with your Math/Physics background? I'm going to try and study both Math and Physics and when I was looking around at university's they showed that about 15% with a Math and/or Physics degree(Masters) went to work at Banks and another 15/20 % at large phone company's. Idk what they are doing there but maybe you can look around?
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United States24612 Posts
On March 09 2013 15:57 fight_or_flight wrote:
btw, if you learn LabVIEW there is a whole market out there for control, test automation, etc. I know for a fact that you can make a career out of that if you desire to.
I did a little looking into this finally... any idea how to learn this? This software starts at 1000 dollars!
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On March 10 2013 02:03 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 15:57 fight_or_flight wrote:
btw, if you learn LabVIEW there is a whole market out there for control, test automation, etc. I know for a fact that you can make a career out of that if you desire to. I did a little looking into this finally... any idea how to learn this? This software starts at 1000 dollars!
Torrents.
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United States24612 Posts
On March 10 2013 02:04 Recognizable wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2013 02:03 micronesia wrote:On March 09 2013 15:57 fight_or_flight wrote:
btw, if you learn LabVIEW there is a whole market out there for control, test automation, etc. I know for a fact that you can make a career out of that if you desire to. I did a little looking into this finally... any idea how to learn this? This software starts at 1000 dollars! Torrents.
I look forward to the interview question: so how did you learn LabView? XD
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On March 10 2013 02:05 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2013 02:04 Recognizable wrote:On March 10 2013 02:03 micronesia wrote:On March 09 2013 15:57 fight_or_flight wrote:
btw, if you learn LabVIEW there is a whole market out there for control, test automation, etc. I know for a fact that you can make a career out of that if you desire to. I did a little looking into this finally... any idea how to learn this? This software starts at 1000 dollars! Torrents. I look forward to the interview question: so how did you learn LabView? XD
Why would they care? As if all the design company's care that pretty much everyone they hired torrented Photoshop at some point ^.^. Frankly, photoshop is easily crackable because they want individuals to use their products because when they start working at company's/start their own company they will have to buy the product they got used too or they can face legal action. Probably the same for this piece of software. You can tell them you learned it in your own spare time because you were bored and it seemed like a good idea. That will show them your great work ethic 
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moktira
Ireland1542 Posts
On March 10 2013 01:18 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 19:44 moktira wrote:
There are a lot of jobs in industry that hire people with physics degrees. Right now photonics is pretty big business and it's mostly physicists who are hired (check out the Tyndall Institute in Ireland for example, probably most of the companies associated with it would also hire physicists). One of my physics lecturers worked for a photonics company in Silicon Valley. A good few of my friends went into photonics.
Lab technician jobs do not require PhDs either. You can also get jobs in observatories, one of my friends did this for 6 months in the Canary Islands after his degree.
There are also research jobs that are not destined for pure academia, these will often require you begin doing a PhD but will pay you while you are doing it so it's effectively a job with a large amount of further training.
I'm pretty sure the IOP did something before about physicists working as opticians before. Also radiologists in hospitals are often physicists who received on-the-job training, I considered applying for a job in that before I decided to do a PhD, I heard later that the person who got it was a physics graduate.
Of the people I know who did physics and didn't do a PhD; one got a job with Intel, another in Sellafield (a nuclear power plant). I also know both gas and electricity companies in Ireland hire people with physics degrees, I imagine this is the same with a lot of energy companies.
Less pure physics jobs you can get are in IT, such as IT consultants for businesses which one of my friends is. Also provided you got competent training in programming software engineering is a possibility. Two of my friends went into finance, one chartered accounting and the other actuary (though he had a masters). Both of these did require further training but that was necessary for finance graduates too. One of my friends also got a job with the Irish radio and television company but the requirement there might have just been a degree and the fact that she did physics may not have been taken into account.
Also one guy in my year got a job with Apple and another does in game support with Blizzard, but again I'm not sure if their degrees in physics had any impact in getting those positions.
And a lot of people I know who did physics did not plan to do a PhD after but changed their minds as they went further with it and there is good funding opportunities for PhDs in physics (in Europe at least).
There's also science journalism but that most likely would involve extra courses, still, we need better science media correspondents. This is a great post. Unfortunately, I can't find any evidence to support many of the claims (this may just be my fault). I've been searching all morning for job listings which accept entry level physics grads, and am coming up with almost nothing. I found a few things which require very specialized knowledge, a few things which require years of experience, a few things which require a strong programming background, and other things which block the typical physics grad despite listing a physics bachelors as a possible qualifying credential. I didn't find much for lab technicians, although I'll keep looking. I haven't searched for observatories as those tend to be far away from where you/I live. Maybe I'm just not good at job searching, and am missing lots of great examples. It seems like the biggest hurdle to getting a job for a physics graduate is if they don't know a lot of coding...
Well what I said was certainly anecdotal based on people I know and have met over the last few years in my field, also it's worth pointing out (similar to what Recognizable said) that these were all in Europe (and mostly Ireland) and also that I graduated in 2007 so I'm giving you 5 year old information in the wrong region. Still, if you wish I can find evidence to back it up in Ireland and probably the UK and Europe too but it could indeed be very different in the US.
I just glanced at some websites that I have looked at in the past and they might give some indication rather than general searching. inspire for example is good and is US based, though mostly academic there are jobs for graduates listed too. PhysicsToday also gives a good list and I've applied the filter for degree here.
Non-US; tip-top through IOP which seems to have changed to brightrecruits since I was last on it gives a good list in Europe and, again while mostly in academia, there are positions aimed at graduates in the two links I provided. The IOP have advice on this in the UK which might be applicable in the US too.
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You can also go into computer science with physics degrees. Many good jobs for those people.
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My Dad did his masters in theoretical physics. He taught highschool and later became a stock broker.
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get a Physics degree
get into Finance because a Physics degree is a pretty good indicator that you're smarter than most Finance majors and you'll be able to understand the math side of Finance and work with the algorithms that influence/predict financial markets
make bank
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United States24612 Posts
On March 10 2013 04:06 udgnim wrote:
get into Finance
Can you elaborate on this part...?
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On March 10 2013 04:20 micronesia wrote:Can you elaborate on this part...?
Well, one could take the Uniform Certified Public Accountant Examination. Even if you only have the "inactive CPA" designation, a CPA with a physics degree would probably find a job in finance fairly quickly.
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United States24612 Posts
On March 10 2013 04:31 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2013 04:20 micronesia wrote:On March 10 2013 04:06 udgnim wrote:
get into Finance Can you elaborate on this part...? Well, one could take the Uniform Certified Public Accountant Examination. Even if you only have the "inactive CPA" designation, a CPA with a physics degree would probably find a job in finance fairly quickly.
I was just reading through the material covered on that exam... not much of it was covered in my physics degree. How would someone go about passing this test without training? A tremendous amount of self-study?
I've heard the exam to become a CPA is not easy; I think a cousin of mine took it several times before he passed (this was many years ago, though).
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On March 10 2013 02:03 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 15:57 fight_or_flight wrote:
btw, if you learn LabVIEW there is a whole market out there for control, test automation, etc. I know for a fact that you can make a career out of that if you desire to. I did a little looking into this finally... any idea how to learn this? This software starts at 1000 dollars!
Yes.
First of all, most universities should have licenses freely available to students. If they don't simply contact NI and they'll work with you.
Most schools don't have any class that teaches labview, and it's something they may use only to be able to use a piece of hardware to control it or grab data off of it. Usually a grad student will learn just enough of it to write some type of procedure, and people will try to follow it. No one will have any idea what they are doing and it can be frustrating.
However, if you want to learn it in an academic environment, I suggest using it to simplify your final project. Once you've used it to do a big project, you can then pretty easily get the first level of certification and then ask NI if there are any local companies looking for a physics student who is certified in labview.
The second way to go about learning it is in a hobby environment. You can get a full labview license for personal use plus an arduino for $49. That's like getting labview for $20.
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11225
I believe you have access to free online training once you have a labview license to help train you. There are three levels of training, basic, medium, and advanced. This used to be relatively expensive to get a hold of, but now it comes with the license.
edit: oh yeah, you can get a fully functioning version for 30 days free trial. 1 free trial per machine (unless you re-image it)
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On March 10 2013 05:26 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2013 04:31 farvacola wrote:On March 10 2013 04:20 micronesia wrote:On March 10 2013 04:06 udgnim wrote:
get into Finance Can you elaborate on this part...? Well, one could take the Uniform Certified Public Accountant Examination. Even if you only have the "inactive CPA" designation, a CPA with a physics degree would probably find a job in finance fairly quickly. I was just reading through the material covered on that exam... not much of it was covered in my physics degree. How would someone go about passing this test without training? A tremendous amount of self-study? I've heard the exam to become a CPA is not easy; I think a cousin of mine took it several times before he passed (this was many years ago, though).
Well I'm not the best authority on test taking, so you may be right. I'm not suggesting that physics degrees confer much knowledge in regards to accounting, rather that they look good in the eyes of employers one might not think of. An individual is still going to need to be rather resourceful and inherently bright to make divergent paths meet in such a way.
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On March 10 2013 05:38 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2013 05:26 micronesia wrote:On March 10 2013 04:31 farvacola wrote:On March 10 2013 04:20 micronesia wrote:On March 10 2013 04:06 udgnim wrote:
get into Finance Can you elaborate on this part...? Well, one could take the Uniform Certified Public Accountant Examination. Even if you only have the "inactive CPA" designation, a CPA with a physics degree would probably find a job in finance fairly quickly. I was just reading through the material covered on that exam... not much of it was covered in my physics degree. How would someone go about passing this test without training? A tremendous amount of self-study? I've heard the exam to become a CPA is not easy; I think a cousin of mine took it several times before he passed (this was many years ago, though). Well I'm not the best authority on test taking, so you may be right. I'm not suggesting that physics degrees confer much knowledge in regards to accounting, rather that they look good in the eyes of employers one might not think of. An individual is still going to need to be rather resourceful and inherently bright to make divergent paths meet in such a way.
Isn't this an accountancy test?
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On March 10 2013 07:09 Recognizable wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2013 05:38 farvacola wrote:On March 10 2013 05:26 micronesia wrote:On March 10 2013 04:31 farvacola wrote:On March 10 2013 04:20 micronesia wrote:On March 10 2013 04:06 udgnim wrote:
get into Finance Can you elaborate on this part...? Well, one could take the Uniform Certified Public Accountant Examination. Even if you only have the "inactive CPA" designation, a CPA with a physics degree would probably find a job in finance fairly quickly. I was just reading through the material covered on that exam... not much of it was covered in my physics degree. How would someone go about passing this test without training? A tremendous amount of self-study? I've heard the exam to become a CPA is not easy; I think a cousin of mine took it several times before he passed (this was many years ago, though). Well I'm not the best authority on test taking, so you may be right. I'm not suggesting that physics degrees confer much knowledge in regards to accounting, rather that they look good in the eyes of employers one might not think of. An individual is still going to need to be rather resourceful and inherently bright to make divergent paths meet in such a way. Isn't this an accountancy test?
Yes, 'twas in response to Micronesia's inquiry in regards to how one with a physics background might get into finance. My only point is that employers look favorably on degrees like physics, even in unrelated fields like finance. Now whether or not a holder of a physics degree is actually good at accounting or the like is another question entirely.
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I am currently doing a joint honours in physics and computer science, I predict a lot of job prospects. The combination of strong programming and physics based skills such as problem solving etc is very desirable.
Personally I want to look into defence and weapon systems.
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Physics is a very good foundation, but it doesn't necessarily translate into useful on the job skills. This is the problem you have to overcome either with experience (via internships or related job experience) or additional schooling (proficiency exams or graduate programs) to demonstrate that you have the basic skill set to fulfill the necessary responsibilities. It is unlikely that the door will be shut in your face with respect to a broad area of employment opportunities given a physics degree (as opposed to other concentrations which are more narrowly tailored to specific jobs), but the degree will not in itself be sufficient to get you hired. You've got to show some kind of practical proficiency in some manner or another, especially if it's been a while since you graduated.
When you're in school it's about the degree, GPA, and internships. But once you've been out for a while, your relevant work experience is more important than your degree and GPA. And if you extend the time far enough, the latter almost becomes nonexistent in comparison to the former.
Also CPA =/= finance. CFA is for finance. But a masters would probably serve you better given the long period you've been a teacher (I assume). You could also try to become an actuary with the P exams. But it really depends on what you want to do, then tailoring your experience/exams to show you're a valuable prospect to interested employers.
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there are jobs out there a physics degree holder can do, but basically none of them are specifically tailored towards physics undergrads. many mentioned consulting/finance etc, but they also hire english and history majors. what i'm trying to say is this. real life work and school are often times completely irrelevant. many of these finance jobs require at most high school math and no more. what they expect from you isn't knowledge, its your ability learn and learn quickly. Unless we're talking about highly technical fields like software engineering or accounting, where you're expected to have some sort of foundation, most jobs are trained on the job. Don't limit yourself by asking "what can a physics degree undergrad can do." you can do pretty much anything if you can sell yourself.
On the other hand, if you want some type of research or highly technical jobs, I suggest you go to grad school
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United States24612 Posts
On March 10 2013 13:09 dongmydrum wrote:
Don't limit yourself by asking "what can a physics degree undergrad can do." you can do pretty much anything if you can sell yourself.
Most job listings specifically have requirements that you will not meet unless you do other things in addition to having a degree in physics. It's certainly worth deciding which of these jobs you are interested in and then trying to meet those requirements through self study, additional coursework, internships, or whatever else, but that's not really the point of the discussion. The point is, are there jobs you can get without having to meet other major requirements? If no, then ok, but the world is very dishonest about this fact which is rather damaging to young physics hopefuls. If yes, then I'm trying to find them, and having great difficulty.
On the other hand, if you want some type of research or highly technical jobs, I suggest you go to grad school Serious research seems to go hand in hand with a phd. Highly technical jobs, from what I've seen, can be prepared for by getting a relevant MS. Correct me if I'm wrong here.
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The problem you will run into with a standard undergrad physics degree is that more companies willing to hire entry-level technical folks are looking for probably an engineering degree, even though they will list degrees like Physics as a suitable pre-req to apply. Just need to wow them with your problem solving skills. When you applied to college did you want to be a generic "scientist" I guess? What "ideal" job do you think you want? Back when I was in school I thought that was Biomedical Engineering for me, and ended up getting a double major with it ... but ended up not working down that path and don't even list it on my base resume anymore.
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On March 10 2013 02:05 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2013 02:04 Recognizable wrote:On March 10 2013 02:03 micronesia wrote:On March 09 2013 15:57 fight_or_flight wrote:
btw, if you learn LabVIEW there is a whole market out there for control, test automation, etc. I know for a fact that you can make a career out of that if you desire to. I did a little looking into this finally... any idea how to learn this? This software starts at 1000 dollars! Torrents. I look forward to the interview question: so how did you learn LabView? XD
Well, this probably doesn't help but I'm finishing up my engineering undergrad and we use LabView a bit, but we have student licenses provided. Also, if you want to use LabView the point is interfacing with test equipment and stuff which isn't cheap at all either unfortunately.
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I'll offer a perspective on this pertaining to the finance industry, especially regarding what is considered "high finance" or traditional wall street roles (so I'm not talking about accounting or commercial banking etc.). All I say however, is applicable to basically any sort of quantitative major that requires heavy use of mathematics (and in some cases, statistics and programming).
Pre 2007 financial crisis basically what it took for you to get a job on Wall Street was a demonstrated interest and either connections into the industry, or education pedigree. So for example it wasn't uncommon for a liberal arts major from Harvard to at least get interviews for investment banking positions. Nowadays since the crisis the whole market has shrank such that often there is a heavy emphasis on a need for quantitative skills applicable to the industry before even consideration of an interview. Business degrees no longer hold as much water, and its even been considered in many roles that a physics/math/quantitative degree is better than an economics degree.
Currently, within finance the trading role is particularly applicable to undergraduate quantitative majors. Firm often do not expect heavy finance knowledge coming into an entry role, but precisely want the problem solving and applied math abilities these undergrad majors exhibit. To give some examples take Jane Street Capital and DE Shaw (one of the top proprietary trading firm and one of the top quant hedge funds respectively, both extremely well known and respected in finance):
http://www.janestreet.com/apply/trade.php
https://www.deshaw.com/recruit/UnivListing.html
Both are for entry level positions (either internship or post graduation offers), and state that quantitative skills are extremely important but financial knowledge is not required. They understand that if you're a physics whiz you can learn the finance stuff on the job, but you can't teach a business major math or stats very quickly. Obviously these are extreme examples and your average run of the mill physics majors won't be able to get into either (in fact your run of the mill MIT physics major won't even be able to), but the logic extends to smaller and less selective firms.
Even within more traditional large financial institutions (Goldman, Morgan Stanley, Blackrock etc.), while many heavily quantitative roles are reserved for PhD levels, there are definitely roles for undergraduates as well (institutional trading for example). The downside of having a pure physics degree vs an economics degree is that during the application process you will have to demonstrate that you actually are interested in finance (why the hell do you have a physics major and not an econ major etc.) but its really not a big issue if you put in research.
The state of the finance market today is precisely why there's an ongoing debate about how finance is sucking away engineering talent, especially among top US institutions. Top universities' engineering schools heavily feed into wall street. See: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/15/brain-drain-college-grads-wall-street_n_1069424.html
It's a whole other debate about whether entering finance as a physics major is good for America on a big picture scale, but from a individual perspective, a job on wall street has great personal incentives. Any physics major who is well connected, intelligent, or well pedigreed has a shot at landing a job in this industry.
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United States24612 Posts
I just want to offer a follow up after keeping track of all 'physics' jobs (keyword searches) being posted in my region (New York City and surrounding areas). For each job I asked myself if someone with a bachelors in physics and no other specialized skills would have a shot at the job.
Almost nothing (reasonable full time jobs). I've literally looked through thousands upon thousands of job listings. They either require a phd, an ms from a prestigious school, tons of experience in a field which a physics graduate obviously won't have, tons of computer/programming experience (most of which a physics degree wouldn't help you get), or some other specialized factor. I found maybe half a dozen listings where I couldn't find any evidence in the job listing that a typical physics candidate wouldn't automatically be rejected on account of not meeting the eligibility requirements.
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Baa?21242 Posts
On March 10 2013 07:32 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2013 07:09 Recognizable wrote:On March 10 2013 05:38 farvacola wrote:On March 10 2013 05:26 micronesia wrote:On March 10 2013 04:31 farvacola wrote:On March 10 2013 04:20 micronesia wrote:On March 10 2013 04:06 udgnim wrote:
get into Finance Can you elaborate on this part...? Well, one could take the Uniform Certified Public Accountant Examination. Even if you only have the "inactive CPA" designation, a CPA with a physics degree would probably find a job in finance fairly quickly. I was just reading through the material covered on that exam... not much of it was covered in my physics degree. How would someone go about passing this test without training? A tremendous amount of self-study? I've heard the exam to become a CPA is not easy; I think a cousin of mine took it several times before he passed (this was many years ago, though). Well I'm not the best authority on test taking, so you may be right. I'm not suggesting that physics degrees confer much knowledge in regards to accounting, rather that they look good in the eyes of employers one might not think of. An individual is still going to need to be rather resourceful and inherently bright to make divergent paths meet in such a way. Isn't this an accountancy test? Yes, 'twas in response to Micronesia's inquiry in regards to how one with a physics background might get into finance. My only point is that employers look favorably on degrees like physics, even in unrelated fields like finance. Now whether or not a holder of a physics degree is actually good at accounting or the like is another question entirely.
Please note that finance and accounting are very very different, unless you just want to do some generic balance sheet analysis grind at a non-finance firm. "Going into finance" has nothing to do with getting a CPA.
As for getting into finance, go on a job search site like LinkedIn and look for jobs in the "financial services" industry, and look for all the entry-level jobs that want "quantitative degree" in the requirements. That should give you a good idea of what kind of skills they want from a physics grad. Programming knowledge always helps, but if you demonstrate that you can do math, it's usually not too convoluted to get a quantitative finance position as long as you know the basics of finance.
Then again it's a competitive field so it sitll might be harder than expected.
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Yeah finance/accounting are distinct and considered different as a matter of terminology. CSheep sounds like he really knows what he's saying, the advice about going and being a quant makes sense as that's where your physics degree sounds pretty solid. But yeah it's definitely a very competitive and oftentimes crowded field :/
You also might go to grad school not necessarily to go the academia route but for an engineering degree if you're interested in that. As a physics major, you might go into all sorts of engineering routes like EE or mech if you're into that. You mentioned how engineers with strong physics can be useful, but you can also do a masters in a specific engineering field because physics provides you with a strong base.
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On March 10 2013 03:26 jrkirby wrote:
You can also go into computer science with physics degrees. Many good jobs for those people.
Hah! I wanted to post something similar. I have no idea what you do with just a physics degree, but I believe you be able to specialize into anything you like with hard work and dedication. Seems to me to be a matter of figuring out what you want to do in that respect.
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As a former physics major, I swapped to CS because I felt like my knowledge in physics would get me enough from an intellectual standpoint, but probably wouldn't be enough professionally, due to the fact that physics majors aren't generally taught how to code or apply their knowledge unless they are in grad school (and even so, they are probably still not taught/encouraged to do so.)
Studying CS has made me realize fully how much I would have hated actually doing research or pure physics day in and day out. I love physics, but I think of it more as a hobby and interest than anything else, which is why for me I'd rather work in a programming field, where my skills can be applied to a plethora of subjects. Learning to code/program allows you to do whatever you want regardless of your actual interests IMO.
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This thread makes me hopeful that not all is lost.
I have physics BS, MS and PhD with highest marks from world top 20 physics schools and a big heap of academic awards, but with soaring academic unemployment a career in university ceases to be a viable option.
Some of my friends with similar education and experience find landing a job outside of academia extremely difficult. A few physics PhDs that I know have been unemployed for a while.
I guess I should try volunteering and getting more education in different fields before my postdoc contract runs out...
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On September 07 2013 09:40 Alex1Sun wrote:
This thread makes me hopeful that not all is lost.
I have physics BS, MS and PhD with highest marks from world top 20 physics schools and a big heap of academic awards, but with soaring academic unemployment a career in university ceases to be a viable option.
Some of my friends with similar education and experience find landing a job outside of academia extremely difficult. A few physics PhDs that I know have been unemployed for a while.
I guess I should try volunteering and getting more education in different fields before my postdoc contract runs out...
This is the general result I have found from friends of mine who have physics degrees (though they are limited to specific locations). Can I ask what kind of research you are doing in your postdoc?
I am a biophysicist/microscopist, but I have a lot of friends in different subdisciplines of physics. To address the question of this blog, I would recommend you pursue a masters if you just want to find a job in physics. Usually you can get paid to do it if you TA classes, and it gives you a chance to see a different part of the USA for cheap (in other countries you might have to pay to get your masters). Right now the following fields are pretty hot in physics (as far as industry jobs go):
Photonics - Telecom (nothing transmits data faster than an optical fiber)
Microfabrication - Large and growing industry in aerospace, cell phones, computers, and biomedical devices (honestly, if I could respecialize, it would be in microfabrication)
Energy - Better usage, synthesis, and storage of energy
These are the non-research "hot fields" that I know of. You might also have some luck with national defense or NASA. Just remember, when you're doing the "job searches," don't worry about filling all the requirements listed. Tell your students to apply anyways, they might actually hear back.
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EPT
