|
On December 22 2012 03:41 Barrin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2012 03:32 tehemperorer wrote:
Hmmm... where to begin...
Phrases like "lazy sheeple" and "George was right" would hint at you being the possessor of some hidden knowledge, but only to those without any. Believe it or not, there are people who have already been over the material you presented, read the same books, and come to the same conclusions. However, they are at a point where further research/investigation has rendered those early conclusions invalid, and to some extent, foolish. I think that's the next step you have to get to.
Things you suggest have been too generalized and in that process a lot of truth has been lost. For example, the selling of the US government to private interests is a legitimate problem not just in the US but all over the world. However, that statement is a lot more succinct than it should be. While it's true the interests of certain companies oftentimes factor into political agendas, the power of these companies to push their interests is not that great, and certainly not so great as the level you present.
General Note: It so happens that media outlets frequently use oversimplification and "stretching the truth" to get subscribers to believe the message they are presenting (Fox, NBC, etc.). People who know better, like yourself, get upset and worry that other, less conscious people might be swayed into believing the message. To counteract this, these people express dissenting opinion through whatever channels available to them, trying to publicize what they believe to be the truth in hopes to dilute the original message. In doing so, they oftentimes commit the same wrongs that were done by the original media source: they oversimplify or push to hyperbole a message in hopes of swaying opinion through emotion rather than logic. Don't be guilty of that; people are smarter than you think.
I do agree with your choice to not post evidence. Posting evidence makes crazy claims seem credible, and that is a dangerous thing. Smartly you have left readers of your post two choices: either dismiss it as a collection of improbable conspiracy theories, or to go actually look for the truth.
Can you elaborate on what conspiracy theories you think I'm buying into?
Sure. An example I would point to is "The federal reserve (controlled by private bankers unchecked by other branches of government) is constantly making money out of thin air which continuously devalues each of your dollars." That's only slightly true, but there's a lot more to that concept as well as the real reasons why the US dollar can lose or gain value, but to someone who doesn't know any better that statement is a lot more powerful than it should be. Perhaps how you present your ideas caused me to react the way I did?
People who don't do research for themselves aren't smarter than I think. Sorry.
Too nebulous a statement to have any real bearing. In the context of your original post, you may be right, but it depends on the actual people you are judging and your own personal evaluation of intelligence, which isn't likely to be relevant in any serious attempt to measure intelligence. I think what's more important here is the attitude in which you approach people in general. It seems that if I haven't read what you have read I am somehow not as smart or not as informed, which can't be true.
I think you're misunderstanding my intention. My intention isn't to get everyone to believe even most of what I'm saying (you could go for half of it though)... my intention is to encourage people to do the research for themselves.
I understood your intention; it should have been easy for most people to see that by what's in your very first paragraph.
Things are not as bad as conspiracy theorists would have you believe, but they're not going as good as people who just say "oh yeah its just a few problems". When you fail to do actively and continuously do the research yourself you are 'disenfranchising yourself from the democratic process', as they say.
Totally agree. My two cents is as follows. What's really damaging to our democracy is that it is probably easier to be misinformed than it is to be informed. Being misinformed is fundamentally more dangerous than being uninformed, because while both states of being are states of ignorance, one is the state of ignorance under the guise of knowledge. In the US there is a strengthening climate of activism, particularly in our youth, and while this is certainly a good thing, it happens to take place in an age of misinformation. These are young people whose adult opinions are beginning to take shape, and informed or misinformed, they are taking those views to the polls.[/QUOTE]
|
On December 22 2012 03:32 tehemperorer wrote:
Hmmm... where to begin...
Things you suggest have been too generalized and in that process a lot of truth has been lost. For example, the selling of the US government to private interests is a legitimate problem not just in the US but all over the world. However, that statement is a lot more succinct than it should be. While it's true the interests of certain companies oftentimes factor into political agendas, the power of these companies to push their interests is not that great, and certainly not so great as the level you present.
well this statement can be debunked with just one word......MONSANTO
|
On December 22 2012 04:44 theMTC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2012 03:32 tehemperorer wrote:
Hmmm... where to begin...
Things you suggest have been too generalized and in that process a lot of truth has been lost. For example, the selling of the US government to private interests is a legitimate problem not just in the US but all over the world. However, that statement is a lot more succinct than it should be. While it's true the interests of certain companies oftentimes factor into political agendas, the power of these companies to push their interests is not that great, and certainly not so great as the level you present.
well this statement can be debunked with just one word......MONSANTO
Haha thankfully nothing can be debunked with just a single word!
|
On December 22 2012 03:10 Barrin wrote:Show nested quote +Again, if you saw that statement in any serious paper, you would immediately stop reading. I'm not sure how this is different other than it is the internet, and therefore I'm not supposed to take it seriously. Serious paper. Blog. Serious paper. Blog. Serious paper... hmm........
That's why I put this part in
I'm not sure how this is different other than it is the internet, and therefore I'm not supposed to take it seriously.
So we can both agree this isn't supposed to be taken seriously.
|
|
|
We have 1/20th of the world's population, yet we consume 1/4th of the world's oil. We cut down trees at an astonishing rate. Our government is all over the world and yet we still have plenty of people in poverty and homeless in our own backyard. We need a lot more clean water. Our fruit is imported and often underripe, our livestock is often treated like dirt, and most of the rest is processed and full of preservatives. We have plenty of disease and illness right here at home... we have the world's biggest military but one of the worst health care systems? Even if you can get health care our many of our doctors love prescribing all sorts of stuff you don't really need (and they're not even required to learn nutrition).
im just gonna talk about this paragraph and want you to think about what you wrote.
We have 1/20th of the world's population, yet we consume 1/4th of the world's oil.
DUH! the united states has money and in addition is extremely spread out, of course this is gonna fucking happen. how much of the worlds oil do we use in comparison to developed nations would be a more relevant statistic first off, and you also have to consider how our country is laid out, we have a very spread out population so its just common sense.
We cut down trees at an astonishing rate.
we also, at least in my state plant 3 trees for everyone we cut down, also trees getting cut down is not a big deal, most of the co2 emissions on planet earth are done by plants and vegetation and sea algae if your worried about that whole debate. Do i know if our co2 emissions are making our temp rise? no. From what Ive read probably yes, but it will still probably be safe because of how overall small are emissions are compared to whole system. Temperature changes are also pretty common and guess what? there is possible evidence of temperatures shooting up 7 degrees globally in a couple hundred years, they didn't last long, but the life on planet earth still seemed to be kicken during those times. Though there is evidence of extreme global warming worldwide disaster, but not in the way your probably imagined it. and it was due to volcanic ash and a huge amount of algae that could survive in the environment and spitted out so much toxic fumes that it killed 90 percent of life on earth. But i believe the amount of co2 was far more than what people could reasonably do.
Our government is all over the world and yet we still have plenty of people in poverty and homeless in our own backyard.
It's a matter of a different philosophy, many people in our country are ok with people being homeless, some people don't want to take the increased taxes of making these people not homeless. Oh yeah, poverty in this country is a fucking cakewalk.
We need a lot more clean water. Our fruit is imported and often underripe, our livestock is often treated like dirt, and most of the rest is processed and full of preservatives.
We have the most clean drinking water of any country on earth, also our clean water standards i believe are some of the best in the world, in addition to also being cheaper. Our fruit is imported and often under-ripe(so what?) you know that lots of fruit don't ripen until after they are pulled off the tree? Our livestock are treated overall pretty good(since the book by upton sinclair's "the jungle" in the early 19th century) and consumers have options(kosher for example), we also go through tons of safety measures to make sure the meat is safe, go read some usda stuff. Processed food is not evil, unhealthy when consumed in large amounts, of course, but so is bacon, go read http://modernistcuisine.com/ about more food safety and microbiology and preservatives. I have the book, I'm sure you can find it somewhere.
We have plenty of disease and illness right here at home... we have the world's biggest military but one of the worst health care systems?
and so does every other country, it's what happens when your taxes are fucking low and you don't have completely institutionalized healthcare. Biggest military is also a question of nations priorities, i do think military has a place a place in modern society as pushing for better and better technology. Again it comes down to priorities, and hopefully you undestand the US government has done some would consider great things being in countries we don't belong in as you would probably put it. You mainly hear about the failures. Here's one, removed Saddam Hussein from Kuwait.
Even if you can get health care our many of our doctors love prescribing all sorts of stuff you don't really need (and they're not even required to learn nutrition).
then blame the colleges that teach them, though i doubt your qualified to even say what you need and don't need(I'm certainly not). Our understanding of medicine and the human body is still pretty primitive. many drugs can't compete with placebos, neuroscience is still finding tons of discoveries, and overall we just don't know a lot, Doctors are just doing what they are told, and understand. I guess you could blame the human race for our lack of understanding about the human body and medicine, or you could understand that we are learning all the time and trying to improve and find the best way to do medicine as possible.
Yes, there is some stuff i disagree with in America and i am playing devils advocate here. But you probably need to do some more research before saying everything is fucking horrible and often understand that some people are literally OK with the shit you consider awful. A lot of people in America are OK with homelessness(i personally don't care, oh yeah, and i have been homeless before and i have lived in a homeless shelter, only a week though). A lot of people are ok with limited healthcare by the government I don't know what one is better for me because i pay for my health insurance. What one is better for America, I don't know, not enough data and i don't like to make claims i can't back up or doesn't have "right way to do it"
Again, sorry i can't cite a lot of these, i do read a lot of science but am not a scientist myself. There is just too much complex information for a person to reasonably be expected to understand it all. That is why we listen to experts, and wait for data to come. And some of the stuff i said could not be true, the thing is that it would take me a very very very long time to cite and find and read and understand. Do i believe you did adequate research, no, but neither did I because the amount of time that would go into these blocks of text would be insane.
So yeah... that's all. And i pointed out one paragraph, if i was to criticize your entire post id be fucking typing and researching for months.
|
|
|
On December 23 2012 01:28 Barrin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 00:55 r_con wrote:
We have 1/20th of the world's population, yet we consume 1/4th of the world's oil. We cut down trees at an astonishing rate. Our government is all over the world and yet we still have plenty of people in poverty and homeless in our own backyard. We need a lot more clean water. Our fruit is imported and often underripe, our livestock is often treated like dirt, and most of the rest is processed and full of preservatives. We have plenty of disease and illness right here at home... we have the world's biggest military but one of the worst health care systems? Even if you can get health care our many of our doctors love prescribing all sorts of stuff you don't really need (and they're not even required to learn nutrition).
im just gonna talk about this paragraph and want you to think about what you wrote.
We have 1/20th of the world's population, yet we consume 1/4th of the world's oil.
DUH! the united states has money and in addition is extremely spread out, of course this is gonna fucking happen. how much of the worlds oil do we use in comparison to developed nations would be a more relevant statistic first off, and you also have to consider how our country is laid out, we have a very spread out population so its just common sense. Right. I even said that myself in a previous post. So what we should just accept it and keep spreading out? Maybe we could start condensing a little... Show nested quote +We cut down trees at an astonishing rate. we also, at least in my state plant 3 trees for everyone we cut down, also trees getting cut down is not a big deal, most of the co2 emissions on planet earth are done by plants and vegetation and sea algae if your worried about that whole debate. Do i know if our co2 emissions are making our temp rise? no. From what Ive read probably yes, but it will still probably be safe because of how overall small are emissions are compared to whole system. Temperature changes are also pretty common and guess what? there is possible evidence of temperatures shooting up 7 degrees globally in a couple hundred years, they didn't last long, but the life on planet earth still seemed to be kicken during those times. Though there is evidence of extreme global warming worldwide disaster, but not in the way your probably imagined it. and it was due to volcanic ash and a huge amount of algae that could survive in the environment and spitted out so much toxic fumes that it killed 90 percent of life on earth. But i believe the amount of co2 was far more than what people could reasonably do. I care more about the beautiful ecosystems that the forests create tbh. I care about the creatures themselves and the opportunity to appreciate them. Show nested quote + Our government is all over the world and yet we still have plenty of people in poverty and homeless in our own backyard. It's a matter of a different philosophy, many people in our country are ok with people being homeless, some people don't want to take the increased taxes of making these people not homeless. Oh yeah, poverty in this country is a fucking cakewalk. That's true. But it's OUR country. Show nested quote +We need a lot more clean water. Our fruit is imported and often underripe, our livestock is often treated like dirt, and most of the rest is processed and full of preservatives. We have the most clean drinking water of any country on earth, also our clean water standards i believe are some of the best in the world, in addition to also being cheaper. Our fruit is imported and often under-ripe(so what?) you know that lots of fruit don't ripen until after they are pulled off the tree? Our livestock are treated overall pretty good(since the book by upton sinclair's "the jungle" in the early 19th century) and consumers have options(kosher for example), we also go through tons of safety measures to make sure the meat is safe, go read some usda stuff. Processed food is not evil, unhealthy when consumed in large amounts, of course, but so is bacon, go read http://modernistcuisine.com/ about more food safety and microbiology and preservatives. I have the book, I'm sure you can find it somewhere. I live in Jupiter Florida with consistently some of the best drinking water in the country. But I don't take it for granted... I care very much about clean water and I hope EVERYONE can have access to it. Show nested quote +We have plenty of disease and illness right here at home... we have the world's biggest military but one of the worst health care systems? and so does every other country, it's what happens when your taxes are fucking low and you don't have completely institutionalized healthcare. Biggest military is also a question of nations priorities, i do think military has a place a place in modern society as pushing for better and better technology. Again it comes down to priorities, and hopefully you undestand the US government has done some would consider great things being in countries we don't belong in as you would probably put it. You mainly hear about the failures. Here's one, removed Saddam Hussein from Kuwait. And then we'll have peace? No dude, we're always looking for wars for some reason. Even in peacetime we declare war on shit, the war on drugs for example. Show nested quote +Even if you can get health care our many of our doctors love prescribing all sorts of stuff you don't really need (and they're not even required to learn nutrition). then blame the colleges that teach them, though i doubt your qualified to even say what you need and don't need(I'm certainly not). Our understanding of medicine and the human body is still pretty primitive. many drugs can't compete with placebos, neuroscience is still finding tons of discoveries, and overall we just don't know a lot, Doctors are just doing what they are told, and understand. I guess you could blame the human race for our lack of understanding about the human body and medicine, or you could understand that we are learning all the time and trying to improve and find the best way to do medicine as possible. I am blaming the people for not enacting legislation requiring doctors to learn nutrition (and thus requiring/encouraging the schools to teach it). Doctors prescribe all sorts of shit THEY KNOW YOU DON'T NEED. They have a vested interest in keeping you sick, because sick people keep coming back to them. Please wake up.
provide evidence for any of your claims, otherwise your spouting shit. I admit I'm spouting shit i don't understand, perhaps you should too. Your asking me to do research, but my research has obviously lead me to a far different conclusion. Your asking me to wake up but I've provided you with reasonable solutions.
There is a great joke told be Neil Degrasse Tyson of believers and miracles. A religious man is told he is going to die from cancer in 6 months, by his doctor. He goes to another doctor to get a second opinion he says 7 months, and then another says 5 months. 2 years go by, hes fine, the cancer goes dormant and he is gonna live longer. So they thank god for their miracle, but it never occurred to them that perhaps that all three doctors were fucking wrong? to them its more reasonable that a godly being cured them than the doctors were wrong. I mean these doctors all had the same training and education it makes sense that they would come to the same conclusions. which one is more reasonable?
Clean water is not a problem in the modern world because we have safe reliable and cheap solutions for it. The rest of the world will hopefully get these one day.
doctors are truly trying to help people, i know doctors, dentists, etc. etc. Yes i suppose you could say that they are in the interest of keeping people sick, i guess, most well educated people i know generally wouldn't want to keep people sick because that is fucked up. I'm sure it happens, but i doubt that they go through 8 years of education to do a shitty job. Provide large scale evidence of it happening nationwide(not just one corrupt hospital or doctor) then ill give a shit.
You also misunderstand the U.S. role in the world, or the role that they would like to take. The US would like to be a white knight, fight back against communism(continually done over the last 50 years) help in UN related stuff. A large portion of america is very against recreational drug use, and many people in political office are older, so they are also against it. And Ill bet you would find very few people want meth to be legalized(personally i don't give a shit). And A lot of people dont want weed to be legalized or harder drugs, there are still people who want cigs banned. Stop thinking this is government keeping you down, its your goddamn neighbors demanding this of government, maybe not your friends though  .
idk, it just feels like your spouting nonsense to me without providing hard evidence
|
At first your rant was ok what with the damn government not letting your mom smoke weed and what-not. And then you started talking about every doctor being evil and poisoning their patients on purpose and that the bumbling W government somehow created and then covered up the greatest conspiracy of our times when they couldn't even find the weapons of mass destruction that we knew were there because we were the ones who gave it to them in the first place and then I laughed and realized that you got me too. I especially like your "well I'm not going to back up anything because I want you to do my research for me." Nice.
|
most of the co2 emissions on planet earth are done by plants and vegetation and sea algae if your worried about that whole debate
huh? when did this happen? When did plants start emitting CO2 instead of oxygen?
|
I thought Barrin's OP was a satire, a bad satire. But I see that he is actually defending it in the thread. So, it was serious.
Wow.
Even as blog rants go, this is a poor one. Better luck with the next one, Barrin. You need to work more and think more.
Edit/ Kudos for your obvious passion though. Apathy is clearly not one of your faults.
|
On December 23 2012 04:10 aZealot wrote:
I thought Barrin's OP was a satire, a bad satire. But I see that he is actually defending it in the thread. So, it was serious.
Wow.
Even as blog rants go, this is a poor one. Better luck with the next one, Barrin. You need to work more and think more.
Edit/ Kudos for your obvious passion though. Apathy is clearly not one of your faults.
where was the satire?
|
On December 23 2012 03:32 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +most of the co2 emissions on planet earth are done by plants and vegetation and sea algae if your worried about that whole debate huh? when did this happen? When did plants start emitting CO2 instead of oxygen?
Whoa I can't believe someone said that, that is extremely scary that some moron out there doesn't know this fundamentally basic fact.
|
It almost reads like a young girl dairy. So cute and innocent.
|
Holy crap he's being serious. I was not expecting that.
|
On December 23 2012 10:49 tehemperorer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 03:32 Roe wrote:most of the co2 emissions on planet earth are done by plants and vegetation and sea algae if your worried about that whole debate huh? when did this happen? When did plants start emitting CO2 instead of oxygen? Whoa I can't believe someone said that, that is extremely scary that some moron out there doesn't know this fundamentally basic fact.
I never said they gave it off when they were living, they off c02 when plants animals(mostly bugs cause they are 80-90 percent of animal biomass) and algae die. (what the fuck do you think fossil fuels are made out of?) When plants die they give off co2 into the atmosphere, and i'm pretty sure its more than what we give out in factories.
http://water.me.vccs.edu/exam_prep/carbondioxide.html
the more you know : )
|
doh, someone linked me an old thread. nm.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
