EPT
Time to Wake Up
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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iTzSnypah
United States1738 Posts
So which fruit are you referring to? | ||
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Birdie
New Zealand4438 Posts
Also related: I don't think it's true anymore that the USA government answers to You the people. Certainly it could again return to answering to the people (if it ever did), but it won't as long as people allow the government to grow so large. And I don't think anything will change in a good way until the USA collapses in some way, whether through war or economic collapse or financial collapse or religious upheavel, any one of which could be coming soon and could be far away. I certainly wish your country the best of luck in sorting itself out but I don't see it changing just because of good words written by well-meaning people. It's very rare to have that happen if you look at history, and I don't see any way that the USA will be the exception. | ||
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Elegy
United States1629 Posts
Yet issue is taken already: "I am purposely not backing up my claims with evidence because I want you to research and find out for yourself - honestly you are the problem if you haven't and don't." The "compelling evidence" you speak of regarding 9/11 for example, is hardly compelling, and based largely on often questionable partial analysis of the official story, or are attempts to prove a political agenda based on a need to prove something that isn't there. You then move on to claim the Federal Reserve is controlled by private banks with no government oversight, an obviously untrue statement. More to the point, it's a partial truth taken to an extreme and thus couched in the logic of using only a fragment of the truth to attempt to explain the whole. Your point about the CIA is, again, similar to your incorrect view of the Reserve, not an unsurprising occurrence. All in all, while I understand and appreciate your points (some of which are valid, to be sure), you are exhibiting a very common trait among primarily young "internet warrior" types where your views and beliefs are often decided before looking at the actual facts, or your view of the facts is often a perversion of the truth. It makes it very difficult to dissuade of your extremist ideology with regards to some of your points (9/11, the Fed, false flags being common, science in the classroom etc etc) because the partial nuggets of truth are so well embedded in what you choose to believe. Lastly, your points in your first paragraph about the Constitution are very likely simply wrong, as its highly unlikely you could construct a solid, defensible legal case about exactly why and how (based on both precedence, logic, and a firm understanding of constitutional history and law) the government is somehow illegally selling parts of itself to large organizations in an unconstitutional manner. More likely than not, the actions of the government somehow conflict with how YOUR perception of constitutionality. Whether in reality they do or not is a subject for debate, of course, and would naturally require far more specific details. Now, I will say this: The US is a country with great problems. The war on drugs. The education system. Student debt. Social welfare programs. Questionable military intervention. Shady intelligence gathering techniques. The list goes on. But assuming the government is out to "get us" or keep us down is silly. It's nonsense. The "government" is widely inefficient and insanely slow and bogged down in miles of red tape that it boggles the mind as to how anyone could think the CIA, for example, has the means, time, resources, and willpower to sift through all of your emails for...what purpose, exactly? If the government was capable of even a fraction of the conspiracy theories that exist, or more accurately the perversions of reality that concerned individuals occasionally have, you'd be talking about a quite literally omniscient entity that transcends all known parameters regarding limitations. The government, to a conspiracy nut, is a God. The truth is obviously far from that. If you say it's time to wake up, I'd say it's time to simply step back and face reality. The government never "answered to the people" in the sense I believe you think it did. The Newsroom rant linked above is quite telling- it's perfect until he starts waxing philosophically on what we lost as a country. It makes for good drama...but it's mostly rose tinted glasses. | ||
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farvacola
United States18826 Posts
On December 21 2012 12:07 Elegy wrote: + Show Spoiler + Good read. Yet issue is taken already: "I am purposely not backing up my claims with evidence because I want you to research and find out for yourself - honestly you are the problem if you haven't and don't." The "compelling evidence" you speak of regarding 9/11 for example, is hardly compelling, and based largely on often questionable partial analysis of the official story, or are attempts to prove a political agenda based on a need to prove something that isn't there. You then move on to claim the Federal Reserve is controlled by private banks with no government oversight, an obviously untrue statement. More to the point, it's a partial truth taken to an extreme and thus couched in the logic of using only a fragment of the truth to attempt to explain the whole. Your point about the CIA is, again, similar to your incorrect view of the Reserve, not an unsurprising occurrence. All in all, while I understand and appreciate your points (some of which are valid, to be sure), you are exhibiting a very common trait among primarily young "internet warrior" types where your views and beliefs are often decided before looking at the actual facts, or your view of the facts is often a perversion of the truth. It makes it very difficult to dissuade of your extremist ideology with regards to some of your points (9/11, the Fed, false flags being common, science in the classroom etc etc) because the partial nuggets of truth are so well embedded in what you choose to believe. Lastly, your points in your first paragraph about the Constitution are very likely simply wrong, as its highly unlikely you could construct a solid, defensible legal case about exactly why and how (based on both precedence, logic, and a firm understanding of constitutional history and law) the government is somehow illegally selling parts of itself to large organizations in an unconstitutional manner. More likely than not, the actions of the government somehow conflict with how YOUR perception of constitutionality. Whether in reality they do or not is a subject for debate, of course, and would naturally require far more specific details. Now, I will say this: The US is a country with great problems. The war on drugs. The education system. Student debt. Social welfare programs. Questionable military intervention. Shady intelligence gathering techniques. The list goes on. But assuming the government is out to "get us" or keep us down is silly. It's nonsense. The "government" is widely inefficient and insanely slow and bogged down in miles of red tape that it boggles the mind as to how anyone could think the CIA, for example, has the means, time, resources, and willpower to sift through all of your emails for...what purpose, exactly? If the government was capable of even a fraction of the conspiracy theories that exist, or more accurately the perversions of reality that concerned individuals occasionally have, you'd be talking about a quite literally omniscient entity that transcends all known parameters regarding limitations. The government, to a conspiracy nut, is a God. The truth is obviously far from that. If you say it's time to wake up, I'd say it's time to simply step back and face reality. The government never "answered to the people" in the sense I believe you think it did. The Newsroom rant linked above is quite telling- it's perfect until he starts waxing philosophically on what we lost as a country. It makes for good drama...but it's mostly rose tinted glasses. Holy shit. Took the words right off of my fingertips. I'll simply add a meaningless quip I've just made up. "The Monolith and the Inefficient Machine can oftentimes frighten us one and the same, that needn't mean we confuse the two." | ||
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MountainDewJunkie
United States10341 Posts
And no, combined with the Introvert thread, I am certainly not taking issue with you. You are obviously educated and a man of passion. But I feel it is you who does not see the big picture. Caring, feelings, organic home gardens, amount to nothing. Massive forceful change is required and even if we all feel guilt for our abundance compared to the rest of the world, who among us has actually done something remotely meaningful to quell both the nation's and the world's problems? | ||
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HardlyNever
United States1258 Posts
I am purposely not backing up my claims with evidence because I want you to research and find out for yourself - honestly you are the problem if you haven't and don't. I skimmed over the rest, and I probably don't 100% disagree with everything you say, but that is never a good way to start writing when you are trying to convince someone of something. I'm envisioned a tin foil hat of some size; if you want to come back at this with credible (i.e. academic) sources I'd be more than happy to give it a read. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On December 21 2012 12:07 Elegy wrote: Good read. Yet issue is taken already: "I am purposely not backing up my claims with evidence because I want you to research and find out for yourself - honestly you are the problem if you haven't and don't." The "compelling evidence" you speak of regarding 9/11 for example, is hardly compelling, and based largely on often questionable partial analysis of the official story, or are attempts to prove a political agenda based on a need to prove something that isn't there. You then move on to claim the Federal Reserve is controlled by private banks with no government oversight, an obviously untrue statement. More to the point, it's a partial truth taken to an extreme and thus couched in the logic of using only a fragment of the truth to attempt to explain the whole. Your point about the CIA is, again, similar to your incorrect view of the Reserve, not an unsurprising occurrence. All in all, while I understand and appreciate your points (some of which are valid, to be sure), you are exhibiting a very common trait among primarily young "internet warrior" types where your views and beliefs are often decided before looking at the actual facts, or your view of the facts is often a perversion of the truth. It makes it very difficult to dissuade of your extremist ideology with regards to some of your points (9/11, the Fed, false flags being common, science in the classroom etc etc) because the partial nuggets of truth are so well embedded in what you choose to believe. Lastly, your points in your first paragraph about the Constitution are very likely simply wrong, as its highly unlikely you could construct a solid, defensible legal case about exactly why and how (based on both precedence, logic, and a firm understanding of constitutional history and law) the government is somehow illegally selling parts of itself to large organizations in an unconstitutional manner. More likely than not, the actions of the government somehow conflict with how YOUR perception of constitutionality. Whether in reality they do or not is a subject for debate, of course, and would naturally require far more specific details. Now, I will say this: The US is a country with great problems. The war on drugs. The education system. Student debt. Social welfare programs. Questionable military intervention. Shady intelligence gathering techniques. The list goes on. But assuming the government is out to "get us" or keep us down is silly. It's nonsense. The "government" is widely inefficient and insanely slow and bogged down in miles of red tape that it boggles the mind as to how anyone could think the CIA, for example, has the means, time, resources, and willpower to sift through all of your emails for...what purpose, exactly? If the government was capable of even a fraction of the conspiracy theories that exist, or more accurately the perversions of reality that concerned individuals occasionally have, you'd be talking about a quite literally omniscient entity that transcends all known parameters regarding limitations. The government, to a conspiracy nut, is a God. The truth is obviously far from that. If you say it's time to wake up, I'd say it's time to simply step back and face reality. The government never "answered to the people" in the sense I believe you think it did. The Newsroom rant linked above is quite telling- it's perfect until he starts waxing philosophically on what we lost as a country. It makes for good drama...but it's mostly rose tinted glasses. I pretty much agree with you on everything you just said. Honestly OP I kind of face palmed reading what you just wrote and then saying why you aren't giving evidence. | ||
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SweeTLemonS[TPR]
11739 Posts
On December 21 2012 12:07 Elegy wrote: Good read. Yet issue is taken already: "I am purposely not backing up my claims with evidence because I want you to research and find out for yourself - honestly you are the problem if you haven't and don't." The "compelling evidence" you speak of regarding 9/11 for example, is hardly compelling, and based largely on often questionable partial analysis of the official story, or are attempts to prove a political agenda based on a need to prove something that isn't there. Pretty much all of them are half baked theories that conveniently ignore certain facts of what happened that day, and none of them ever answer the counter arguments that are presented? Building 7, for instance, has been explained a zillion times (it wasn't structurally sound), and when this is brought to one of these conspiracy theorist nutjobs, all they say is "LOL! CONSIDER YOUR SOURCE! THEY'RE RUN BY THE GOVERNMENT!" The reason that they believe and support the conspiracy is not because of anything they see, but rather because the conspiracy upholds their preconceived world view. Observing anything objectively would require them to question the very foundations on which they have constructed their lives, and that is far too difficult and painful a task to follow through with... the idea that we could be wrong is horrifying to most. And here is a study backing up what I just wrote. [Interesting read, by the way.] | ||
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hoby2000
United States918 Posts
Most of the replies to this blog are ironic because you guys are exemplifying EXACTLY what Barrin is talking about. I'm more than positive he knew you would respond like that too because i have been tempted to write this EXACT post so many damn times, but I always remember that most people just don't get it. This world is a mess. | ||
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MountainDewJunkie
United States10341 Posts
Tell us then, hoby2000, with your enlightened awareness and mastery of irony, have you done for our nation and our earth? | ||
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hoby2000
United States918 Posts
On December 21 2012 12:42 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Not one person here believes the world ISN'T a mess. And we surrender more freedoms on an annual basis. Tell us then, hoby2000, with your enlightened awareness and mastery of irony, have you done for our nation and our earth? My supposed "enlightened awareness" and "mastery of irony" are from doing this thing called thinking. I do it in my spare time so I can move my life forward. | ||
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ParkwayDrive
United States328 Posts
ive always tried to have hope with america because freedom is all that matters and as fucked up as america is we still alot of freedom compared to most places. the problem is we have a lot less freedom than people are led to believe in this country and that is what is really sad. i for one have given up hope in america, the thing that really sealed the deal for me is these school shootings. no one wants to get the the root of the problem which the the psychotropic drugs that many of our kids are put on since being a toddler because teachers and parents want a quick fix and/or they just dont do the research and they believe whatever big pharma will tell them. but no one is even asking what drugs this kid was on, they would rather blame starcraft and try and take away our guns. we have always had guns, other countries have guns. yet school shootings only happen here. no one ever asks because they are afraid of big pharma. our diets and our medications are killing us and no one seems to care enough to even ask the questions. makes me sick and i for one cant wait to get out of this country in a few months. | ||
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iamho
United States3347 Posts
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MountainDewJunkie
United States10341 Posts
On December 21 2012 12:51 ParkwayDrive wrote: lol gotta love people who wont do the work themselves. you tried bro but sheep will be sheep. i get what youre saying but in the end we can only take care of ourselves and try with those we care about. ive always tried to have hope with america because freedom is all that matters and as fucked up as america is we still alot of freedom compared to most places. the problem is we have a lot less freedom than people are led to believe in this country and that is what is really sad. i for one have given up hope in america, the thing that really sealed the deal for me is these school shootings. no one wants to get the the root of the problem which the the psychotropic drugs that many of our kids are put on since being a toddler because teachers and parents want a quick fix and/or they just dont do the research and they believe whatever big pharma will tell them. but no one is even asking what drugs this kid was on, they would rather blame starcraft and try and take away our guns. we have always had guns, other countries have guns. yet school shootings only happen here. no one ever asks because they are afraid of big pharma. our diets and our medications are killing us and no one seems to care enough to even ask the questions. makes me sick and i for one cant wait to get out of this country in a few months. Dude, you are ahead of the game. I salute you | ||
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SweeTLemonS[TPR]
11739 Posts
On December 21 2012 12:39 hoby2000 wrote: How can you guys say that our government is not out to get us? We have trillions of dollars in debt, and it's only increasing because of an economic idea that has proven to fail in Europe. We consistently have our army all over the world in countries where we're not wanted, there are a handful of bills they've tried to pass in the past couple of years limiting people's ability to speak their minds (NDAA, SOPA, PIPA, Patriot Act), AND we are STILL in the middle of a failed War on Drugs because they believe that when you make a law, people should just follow it. Most of the replies to this blog are ironic because you guys are exemplifying EXACTLY what Barrin is talking about. I'm more than positive he knew you would respond like that too because i have been tempted to write this EXACT post so many damn times, but I always remember that most people just don't get it. This world is a mess. I don't think they're out to get us. I think that people in general are inconceivably stupid and incompetent, and they're just naturally running things into the ground. I think it makes some people feel better to think that there are some groups of masterminds orchestrating all of this, and that if we could bring awareness we could fight against these powers. But realistically, I think this is the natural progression that we will take until we actually realize that a Utopian existence is not possible. The belief in a potential utopia is, in my opinion, the reason behind what we're seeing today, not that some crazy group of people wants to rule the world. And all you have to do is listen to people to realize that they honestly believe humanity is capable of removing all the bad things in life. So no, they aren't out to get us: they're just dumb. | ||
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farvacola
United States18826 Posts
On December 21 2012 12:56 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Dude, you are ahead of the game. I salute you Dudes from Cleveland iirc, so I can kind of understand why he wants to leave lol | ||
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AnachronisticAnarchy
United States2957 Posts
I am purposely not backing up my claims with evidence because I want you to research and find out for yourself - honestly you are the problem if you haven't and don't. People are far too lazy these days and are in the habit of believing whatever bullshit they're fed. If you just read something and take it for fact, that can very often end up being a major mistake. | ||
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MountainDewJunkie
United States10341 Posts
On December 21 2012 13:06 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: I really hate how a lot of people are bashing on this line: People are far too lazy these days and are in the habit of believing whatever bullshit they're fed. If you just read something and take it for fact, that can very often end up being a major mistake. I don't have a problem with that line myself, because I believe it. But it is admittedly dismissive. If you want to be taken seriously, one must cover all bases. | ||
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SweeTLemonS[TPR]
11739 Posts
On December 21 2012 13:17 MountainDewJunkie wrote: I don't have a problem with that line myself, because I believe it. But it is admittedly dismissive. If you want to be taken seriously, one must cover all bases. If nothing else, it'd be nice to know what he is basing his opinions on. Having that information can then lead to other sources, and so on. Like weed being an excellent medicine. I'm aware of its application in a handful of circumstances, but not aware of it being a cure for anything; I'd like to see where he's getting that information, and if it's even worth looking into, because if his source is High Times, then it's not worth my time to research. | ||
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