• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 16:11
CET 22:11
KST 06:11
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book16Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14
Community News
ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0224LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)43Weekly Cups (Feb 2-8): Classic, Solar, MaxPax win2Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker13PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar)17
StarCraft 2
General
Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? StarCraft 1 & 2 Added to Xbox Game Pass Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Terran Scanner Sweep
Tourneys
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16) WardiTV Team League Season 10 PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) $5,000 WardiTV Winter Championship 2026 StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ? [A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 512 Overclocked Mutation # 511 Temple of Rebirth
Brood War
General
Ladder maps - how we can make blizz update them? TvZ is the most complete match up Which units you wish saw more use in the game? BW General Discussion ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/02
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace Megathread Diablo 2 thread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Ask and answer stupid questions here! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Search For Meaning in Vi…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1838 users

Diablo III - Adventures in new patches

Blogs > Treehead
Post a Reply
Treehead
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
999 Posts
December 20 2012 22:34 GMT
#1
As many as you may have seen, I wrote a rather lengthy rant about Diablo 3 when after the game had been out for a bit (at: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=355456). Well, since then, not all that much has held my attention for a long period of time. I’ve found myself coming back to SC2 again and again, found myself wishing Torchlight 2 had more interesting spells and abilities, found myself doing quests in Skyrim that I hadn’t been motivated to do before. But not until recently had I come back to Diablo 3 – at the request of a friend I spent many years playing WoW with. Needless to say, I decided to give the new Diablo patch a shot. I didn’t know the material that well – and it could have gotten better.

Night 1

We spent a lengthy amount of time picking character classes and finding our footing in the game again. We decided we’d be playing without the AH and on Hardcore – and that since we each had exactly one class we hadn’t played much before, we’d be learning them. That would be the gameplay that would provide the most challenge, and so was the gameplay most likely to hold our attention. The first night was reasonably dull, and we only leveled to about 11 or 12 over the course of a couple hours (we dawdled a bit, learning new skills and runes about classes we’d never really played before). It wasn’t all that exciting, but it was also different abilities, and that alone made the experience worth semi-engaging.

However, we’d both been here before. The quests weren’t new, the items weren’t new, the feeling of “if we keep this up, we might get to content that’ll hold our attention next week” was very not new. It held our attention, but left us with a feeling of dread for what we knew was coming when the newness wore off.

Night 2

I came into this night excited. I had completely forgotten (but been reminded by a post I saw on the forums) about “Monster Power”. This was something they added to make the game more difficult for players who chose to play that way.

We immediately set it to MP10, and were amazed to find ourselves not dying. But even more amazing, it felt hard. Really hard. We were nearing the end of Act 1 at level 14-ish, and the whole experience was intoxicating. We both spoke excitedly about how we were going to tackle each room, how much fun we were having, how much this reminded us of Diablo 2, and then all those old experiences started coming to life again.

I remembered how hard my frenzy barbarian used to annihilate himself with Iron Maiden on him in Act 3, how painstakingly my sorceress had endured kiting Duriel, the night I learned the hard way never to go afk in Worldstone Keep and the sheer, ridiculous number of skelemancers I created back when my arm was messed up and I was trying to play one-handed. Like a middle-aged man suddenly able to don his high school football attire and play on the field of his youth against new foes, I found myself immersed in the culmination of the nostalgia of days gone by and the incredible newness with which this challenge presented us.

We even died. Yes, that’s right – in our second night of play, in Act I Normal we (the once-proud conquerors of Diablo 3 Hell on Hardcore with no dupes, hacks, or traded gear) died. Now, admittedly, the mistakes we made were silly and careless (but then, the D3 we knew didn’t punish you for such things).

We immediately made new characters, and got to level 6 very quickly. However, in the spirit of days gone by, we had willed ourselves to stay up way too late, such that I got very little sleep that night, and my friend got almost none. He was up by 6 am the next morning with his sister’s kids to play around and go to the zoo.

Night 3

The night started in a stark contrast to the end of the night before. We had been energetic and excited, now we were both quiet and subdued – almost as though we knew beforehand the result of the night’s gaming. We played for a time, neither of us speaking, but it was different. It was all different. We became suspicious that I had done something wrong in hosting the game – but we had no such luck. It was obvious that MP10 was not the answer we had hoped it would be, and after playing a bit more, the reason became evident: we were fighting harder enemies, but we were also higher level while doing it. We no longer were in danger of dying. Heck, we no longer even needed potions. All it took was our being 4 or 5 levels higher from having started the game on MP10 to begin with – and the Diablo 3 that we knew far better than we wanted to was back. We felt ourselves throwing caution to the wind, taking risks, playing sloppy – because we hoped we were wrong.

But after more than an hour of not really interesting play, it became harder and harder to believe. And that idea started to dominate the conversation, too. Soon, all our old greivances started coming out. The story was in the way. The itemization was bad, and we hadn’t seen a single unique in our (admittedly small) time playing. We didn’t like how this spec worked or that you couldn’t use one ability or another effectively. Finally, as we approached Skeleton King, my friend decided he’d seen enough.

“Dude, you might wanna pot now, he’s coming out,” I said. My friend was sitting at very low life.
“I got this,” came his reply.
Maybe he’s just saving his pot – maybe he’s going to do something more creative to get life back, I told myself, though I guess deep down I knew what was coming.

As the Skeleton King came out, my friend leaped over to him and got in the first blows – getting himself killed immediately. The statement was clear: if, even on the highest difficulty, the beginning of the game is this mind-numbingly easy – why *should* I want to keep my character (and my enthusiasm in playing) alive?

“Time played,” he said as I finished the encounter with the Skeleton King, “1 hour, 28 minutes.”

He logged off after, saying that he was pretty tired and would need to get up just as early the next morning. I could probably appeal to him to give MP10 a little more time, or maybe to intentionally put ourselves in a situation where we’d always be intentionally under-levelled, but honestly it seems to me like he made the right call. After the game we had played the night before, we were both too let down by the game in front of us to keep playing – and having one decisive moment of “screw this game” was far better than the often slow and drawn out process which normally leads to us leaving a particular game.

Closing Thoughts

Hardcore in Diablo 2 worked. You could die in that game at any point in time if you weren’t playing attention (if you weren’t gifted a bunch of gear). You learned lessons by dying, and because you were always just a screen away from an enemy you’d need to give your full attention to, death also lost part of its bite. Sure, it took away parts of your past achievements. You lost some gear. You didn’t have a random video game accomplishment to show for your time. But never did it go into the realm of eating away at your future.

This is where Diablo 3’s hardcore hits me. I don’t mind dying in Diablo 2. I can always make a new character and have new experiences in no time. In Diablo 3, there is just too much downtime between level 1 and the first time an enemy could really kill you, so that death isn’t just a loss of things you’d gotten in the past – it’s a loss of time you’d need to spend in the future if you were going to continue to play this game. Not satisfying, enjoyable time the way it was in Diablo 2, either – because, again, a hack-and-slash game that doesn’t make you afraid of dying makes you acutely aware of just how much ARPGs fall behind other types of RPGs. The story gets repetitive. The itemization feels off. The AH absolutely sucks (and drop rates suck pretty hard, too) – but the real culprit behind the complaints I have about the early game is that the game is just too shy about killing me. Give me that and all else could have been forgiven.

That's why hardcore in Diablo 3 doesn’t work – not because you lose the stuff you had, but because you must lose so much future time doing stuff that realistically cannot be interesting without going far out of your way to get there. Effectively, rather than just taking away virtual stuff that didn't limit the real fun of playing anyway (thereby, making the detriment economic rather than behavioral), the game actually places you in "detention" by forcing the next x hours of play to not be fun. The game actually says "you're grounded, now go to your room and think about what you've done for the next 12-20 played hours".

Sure, we're creative people, and we can probably find a way through much effort to get each stage of the game to be interesting. We can remake characters in MP0, get them to level 10 and 11 and have another hour or two – or more or less – but in the end, we’re investing time on not having fun to purposefully making the game harder later so that we can have fun then. Why would we do that? How long could it last? Is there a point where it stops working that way? How long would we be comfortable racing through MP0 because we just can’t take playing the game the way the game wants to be played: as the type of game where you are almost literally forced to succeed at the beginning – so that any choices you make in the early game is so uninteresting that you no longer even want to make them.

That’s why my friend’s character is dead now. Because he felt that was the most interesting choice he had left in the game to make.

To some extent, the patch does make things "better". I got far more excitement out of Night 2 than I ever did in hardcore beforehand (primarily at the notion of being able to die without the dread of "there's another week I'm going to need before I can play this game for fun"), but the direction of the game still feels like something a robot would make to approximate fun rather than something a person would make because they know what "fun" means. That's the real reason I don't want to play - because I really don't have much hope that the game will actually be able to provide me entertainment with longevity, it seems like it's destined to only ever be an approximation which has occasional glimpses of the real thing.

**
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
December 20 2012 23:00 GMT
#2
i guess you kind of feel about diablo what i feel about your blog after reading that long ass rant.
Dagwon
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada33 Posts
December 21 2012 00:46 GMT
#3
This makes me glad that I never forked out the $60 for the game. I played for... oh 6-7 hours on my husband's copy and remember thinking, "Can I go back to playing D2 now?"

That and Belial's graphics landed me in the hospital... and I've never had any trouble with a game before.
Are you satisfied getting by with just enough? Or are you ready to start trying?
FFGenerations
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
7088 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-21 01:00:46
December 21 2012 00:59 GMT
#4
cool blogs, like how you described what it was like to live on the edge in d2.
thats how i lived in a number of MMOs such as ones where you lose tons of experience every time you die (1-12 hours worth), and play as a glass canon mage, in heavy lag, with mob respawns surrounding you with imprecise provokation range, trying to poke at higher level mobs that can kill you easily.
thats the way to live. not this pointless modern shit. gaming is about the thrill, living on the edge, wind in your hair.
Cool BW Music Vid - youtube.com/watch?v=W54nlqJ-Nx8 ~~~~~ ᕤ OYSTERS ᕤ CLAMS ᕤ AND ᕤ CUCKOLDS ᕤ ~~~~~~ ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ PUNCH HIM ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ
Treehead
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
999 Posts
December 21 2012 02:01 GMT
#5
On December 21 2012 08:00 dAPhREAk wrote:
i guess you kind of feel about diablo what i feel about your blog after reading that long ass rant.


My bad. Next time I'll try to give my blogs more difficulty, itemization, and the ability to make meaningful choices in character building.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
December 21 2012 05:47 GMT
#6
On December 21 2012 09:46 Dagwon wrote:
This makes me glad that I never forked out the $60 for the game. I played for... oh 6-7 hours on my husband's copy and remember thinking, "Can I go back to playing D2 now?"

That and Belial's graphics landed me in the hospital... and I've never had any trouble with a game before.

Spent 100 bucks on collectors edition, made 200 off of auction house. I got my moneys worth.
liftlift > tsm
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
December 21 2012 06:05 GMT
#7
play Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup.
Writer
surfinbird1
Profile Joined September 2009
Germany999 Posts
December 21 2012 09:48 GMT
#8
On December 21 2012 09:46 Dagwon wrote:
That and Belial's graphics landed me in the hospital... and I've never had any trouble with a game before.

How did that happen, epileptic seizure? I thought that was pretty much impossible.
life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Monday Night Weeklies
17:30
#40
RotterdaM1294
TKL 360
IndyStarCraft 263
SteadfastSC169
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 1294
TKL 360
IndyStarCraft 263
SteadfastSC 169
BRAT_OK 155
elazer 113
UpATreeSC 105
Ketroc 53
Temp0 26
Vindicta 19
StarCraft: Brood War
nyoken 104
Rock 29
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm13
Counter-Strike
Foxcn861
Other Games
Grubby3795
Beastyqt833
shahzam500
ToD237
C9.Mang0227
Liquid`Hasu155
ArmadaUGS150
KnowMe147
Trikslyr94
Mew2King63
Livibee49
ZombieGrub23
JuggernautJason17
OptimusSC214
PiLiPiLi5
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 232
• Reevou 4
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• intothetv
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• Eskiya23 4
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota2945
• WagamamaTV337
League of Legends
• TFBlade1295
• Scarra476
Other Games
• imaqtpie1187
• Shiphtur448
Upcoming Events
OSC
2h 49m
WardiTV Winter Champion…
14h 49m
PiGosaur Cup
1d 3h
Replay Cast
1d 11h
WardiTV Winter Champion…
1d 14h
Replay Cast
2 days
PiG Sty Festival
2 days
Maru vs Bunny
Classic vs SHIN
The PondCast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
2 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
2 days
[ Show More ]
OSC
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
PiG Sty Festival
3 days
Clem vs Percival
Zoun vs Solar
Epic.LAN
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
PiG Sty Festival
4 days
herO vs NightMare
Reynor vs Cure
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
Epic.LAN
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
PiG Sty Festival
5 days
Serral vs YoungYakov
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-02-14
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: King of Kings
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 1st Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 1st Round Qualifier
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round Qualifier
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
WardiTV Winter 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.