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because theres no apparent reason for a lot of girls to be in esports, most know nothing about the game and have no other talents. those who do dont really get shit. no one assumes flo is just here to sleep with guys and get attention, because shes a relatively good player. if she were a guy she wouldnt get the attention she does but she clearly invests time in the game and wants to get better at it. same with rachel, because shes been in esports a long time and is clearly passionate about it and is a very good presenter and host. it makes sense for them to get the attention they do.
but a lot of female personalities arent good at being personalities and clearly know nothing about the game nor do they try to learn more. male fans like that are just unknown fans and no one gives it a second thought. but the community is so girl starved that any decent looking female who wants to be a part of the community can become relatively prominent in it. but then when anyone takes a second look at it they realize theres no actual reason for most of those people to be prominent. and the easy, obvious, and often true explanation is either that they slept their way there or lead guys on.
it really, really blows for the legit girls in the community as they have to put up with all the skepticism cuz of the worthless sluts, but more often than not the cynical bitter portion of the community is actually right on this one.
an easily volatile topic so if you think that comes off as sexist, re-read it. there is no reason that girls cant or shouldnt be part of esports, and there are many who are legitimate good parts of the community. but theres a ton of shitty fake ones too, and theyre the reason that most girls get a bad reputation.
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On December 06 2012 08:43 IdrA wrote:
the easy, obvious, and often true explanation is either that they slept their way there or lead guys on.
it really, really blows for the legit girls in the community as they have to put up with all the skepticism cuz of the worthless sluts, but more often than not the cynical bitter portion of the community is actually right on this one.
Ok.
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On December 06 2012 09:08 Thrill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 08:43 IdrA wrote:
the easy, obvious, and often true explanation is either that they slept their way there or lead guys on.
it really, really blows for the legit girls in the community as they have to put up with all the skepticism cuz of the worthless sluts, but more often than not the cynical bitter portion of the community is actually right on this one. Ok.
Way to completely miss the point
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Bah, who cares what people think. It is my strong opinion that if you are fully confident and comfortable with yourself the stupid shit other people say just becomes entertaining, and doesn't affect you anymore. I think it is easier said than done to be 100% happy and confident with every aspect of your life, but you have to just remember that you and the people who care about you know the truth, and that's all that matters.
Always enjoy spending time with you at events, Hun! Miss you already! 
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With women so scarce in the community, I wonder if men realize all the ways they manage to push us away instead of include us.
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Drop me a pm, if some1 that is "that girl" appears.
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endorsing false rumors by actively denying them rarely works out the way you'd like.
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On December 06 2012 10:30 Ryan307 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 09:08 Thrill wrote:On December 06 2012 08:43 IdrA wrote:
the easy, obvious, and often true explanation is either that they slept their way there or lead guys on.
it really, really blows for the legit girls in the community as they have to put up with all the skepticism cuz of the worthless sluts, but more often than not the cynical bitter portion of the community is actually right on this one. Ok. Way to completely miss the point
The point is that the terminology used voids the entire argument. You can't use that language to describe anyone, it's misogynistic and ignorant to talk of a world where such terminology is acceptable.
Not even the worst groupie deserves to be called 'a worthless slut'. There's not a scenario in the world you can paint me where someone is deserving of that label.
'Useless manipulator', sure, 'worthless slut', no. It's just completely unacceptable.
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On December 06 2012 08:43 IdrA wrote:
because theres no apparent reason for a lot of girls to be in esports, most know nothing about the game and have no other talents. those who do dont really get shit. no one assumes flo is just here to sleep with guys and get attention, because shes a relatively good player. if she were a guy she wouldnt get the attention she does but she clearly invests time in the game and wants to get better at it. same with rachel, because shes been in esports a long time and is clearly passionate about it and is a very good presenter and host. it makes sense for them to get the attention they do.
but a lot of female personalities arent good at being personalities and clearly know nothing about the game nor do they try to learn more. male fans like that are just unknown fans and no one gives it a second thought. but the community is so girl starved that any decent looking female who wants to be a part of the community can become relatively prominent in it. but then when anyone takes a second look at it they realize theres no actual reason for most of those people to be prominent. and the easy, obvious, and often true explanation is either that they slept their way there or lead guys on.
it really, really blows for the legit girls in the community as they have to put up with all the skepticism cuz of the worthless sluts, but more often than not the cynical bitter portion of the community is actually right on this one.
an easily volatile topic so if you think that comes off as sexist, re-read it. there is no reason that girls cant or shouldnt be part of esports, and there are many who are legitimate good parts of the community. but theres a ton of shitty fake ones too, and theyre the reason that most girls get a bad reputation.
Once i must agree on what you wrote. In all my years of e-sport, i met way more girls boobwipeing then serving the community with useful work.
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On December 06 2012 08:43 IdrA wrote:
because theres no apparent reason for a lot of girls to be in esports, most know nothing about the game and have no other talents. those who do dont really get shit. no one assumes flo is just here to sleep with guys and get attention, because shes a relatively good player. if she were a guy she wouldnt get the attention she does but she clearly invests time in the game and wants to get better at it. same with rachel, because shes been in esports a long time and is clearly passionate about it and is a very good presenter and host. it makes sense for them to get the attention they do.
but a lot of female personalities arent good at being personalities and clearly know nothing about the game nor do they try to learn more. male fans like that are just unknown fans and no one gives it a second thought. but the community is so girl starved that any decent looking female who wants to be a part of the community can become relatively prominent in it. but then when anyone takes a second look at it they realize theres no actual reason for most of those people to be prominent. and the easy, obvious, and often true explanation is either that they slept their way there or lead guys on.
it really, really blows for the legit girls in the community as they have to put up with all the skepticism cuz of the worthless sluts, but more often than not the cynical bitter portion of the community is actually right on this one.
an easily volatile topic so if you think that comes off as sexist, re-read it. there is no reason that girls cant or shouldnt be part of esports, and there are many who are legitimate good parts of the community. but theres a ton of shitty fake ones too, and theyre the reason that most girls get a bad reputation.
Could I please ask of you the source of which youve got that "most girls in esports know nothing about the game and have no other talents"? If there is any statistic on the subject you could share, I would like to see it.
And, it does come off as sexist, according to my standards.
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On December 06 2012 08:43 IdrA wrote:
it really, really blows for the legit girls in the community as they have to put up with all the skepticism cuz of the worthless sluts, but more often than not the cynical bitter portion of the community is actually right on this one.
So if girls that sleep around are "worthless sluts" what does that make the guys that sleep with them?
"Slut-shaming" is stupid, pointless, and in the end counterproductive because the premise behind it is that a) it is shameful to have sex and b) that it is somehow the woman's job to control the purse-strings to the sex. Therefore if a guy hooks up with someone he, for whatever reason, shouldn't have it is still the girl's fault because the man just can't help it but the woman should have known better. It reduces men to automotons who have no control over their pants, and women to prudes who begrudgingly allow the men to do whatever they want as if the woman gets nothing out of it and so should know better.
While your point may be semi-valid (although I think it takes the blame off of the guys who are a willing party to the act) use of words matter and you should correct yourself.
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On December 07 2012 02:12 FryBender wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 08:43 IdrA wrote:
it really, really blows for the legit girls in the community as they have to put up with all the skepticism cuz of the worthless sluts, but more often than not the cynical bitter portion of the community is actually right on this one.
So if girls that sleep around are "worthless sluts" what does that make the guys that sleep with them? "Slut-shaming" is stupid, pointless, and in the end counterproductive because the premise behind it is that a) it is shameful to have sex and b) that it is somehow the woman's job to control the purse-strings to the sex. Therefore if a guy hooks up with someone he, for whatever reason, shouldn't have it is still the girl's fault because the man just can't help it but the woman should have known better. It reduces men to automotons who have no control over their pants, and women to prudes who begrudgingly allow the men to do whatever they want as if the woman gets nothing out of it and so should know better. While your point may be semi-valid (although I think it takes the blame off of the guys who are a willing party to the act) use of words matter and you should correct yourself.
If you think Idra isn't critical of male community members who feed into bad content or attention whoring, you don't know Idra. And sure, he used very politically incorrect language, but to pretend that his use of misogynistic words invalidates his point is PC pedantic nonsense.
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On December 07 2012 03:46 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2012 02:12 FryBender wrote:On December 06 2012 08:43 IdrA wrote:
it really, really blows for the legit girls in the community as they have to put up with all the skepticism cuz of the worthless sluts, but more often than not the cynical bitter portion of the community is actually right on this one.
So if girls that sleep around are "worthless sluts" what does that make the guys that sleep with them? "Slut-shaming" is stupid, pointless, and in the end counterproductive because the premise behind it is that a) it is shameful to have sex and b) that it is somehow the woman's job to control the purse-strings to the sex. Therefore if a guy hooks up with someone he, for whatever reason, shouldn't have it is still the girl's fault because the man just can't help it but the woman should have known better. It reduces men to automotons who have no control over their pants, and women to prudes who begrudgingly allow the men to do whatever they want as if the woman gets nothing out of it and so should know better. While your point may be semi-valid (although I think it takes the blame off of the guys who are a willing party to the act) use of words matter and you should correct yourself. If you think Idra isn't critical of male community members who feed into bad content or attention whoring, you don't know Idra. And sure, he used very politically incorrect language, but to pretend that his use of misogynistic words invalidates his point is PC pedantic nonsense.
You agree that he used words that convey a message (a misogynistic one) and then you go and say that it doesn't invalidate his point on the view of women. Clearly he has a strong viewpoint on whether or not women and men are equal in sexual liberalism but I guess I'm just being pedantic. As a matter of fact his main argument would have no point if he didn't use that very specific crude word like slut. That word has a very specific connotation in his argument that girls that like to have sex are ruining it for girls that don't. Political correctness has nothing to do with a message you're trying to convey. You can't protect yourself by saying "I know that what I'm saying sounds sexist but it's not" when what you're saying is sexist. Just like you can't protect yourself from being a racist by first putting a disclaimer beforehand. Or saying anything dumb and then trying to explain it away as "I was just misunderstood." Todd Akin and Richard Mourdock tried that strategy, saying exactly the same things that you are telling me. That they were being misinterpreted by those that don't like them simply because they "misspoke." But life doesn't work like that. Words have meanings behind them and the words women and sluts are not interchangeable.
And as to your point that I don't know Idra you're absolutely correct, I don't. And I don't like to infer non-existent points in arguments. The fact is that Idra is only blaming the girls that hang around the scene (since the guys that hang around the scene somehow don't matter). When Idra says that the men-whores who sleep with the willing women are ruining it for the girls that don't, then I'll know that Idra is being critical of them.
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On December 07 2012 05:27 FryBender wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2012 03:46 farvacola wrote:On December 07 2012 02:12 FryBender wrote:On December 06 2012 08:43 IdrA wrote:
it really, really blows for the legit girls in the community as they have to put up with all the skepticism cuz of the worthless sluts, but more often than not the cynical bitter portion of the community is actually right on this one.
So if girls that sleep around are "worthless sluts" what does that make the guys that sleep with them? "Slut-shaming" is stupid, pointless, and in the end counterproductive because the premise behind it is that a) it is shameful to have sex and b) that it is somehow the woman's job to control the purse-strings to the sex. Therefore if a guy hooks up with someone he, for whatever reason, shouldn't have it is still the girl's fault because the man just can't help it but the woman should have known better. It reduces men to automotons who have no control over their pants, and women to prudes who begrudgingly allow the men to do whatever they want as if the woman gets nothing out of it and so should know better. While your point may be semi-valid (although I think it takes the blame off of the guys who are a willing party to the act) use of words matter and you should correct yourself. If you think Idra isn't critical of male community members who feed into bad content or attention whoring, you don't know Idra. And sure, he used very politically incorrect language, but to pretend that his use of misogynistic words invalidates his point is PC pedantic nonsense. You agree that he used words that convey a message (a misogynistic one) and then you go and say that it doesn't invalidate his point on the view of women. Clearly he has a strong viewpoint on whether or not women and men are equal in sexual liberalism but I guess I'm just being pedantic. As a matter of fact his main argument would have no point if he didn't use that very specific crude word like slut. That word has a very specific connotation in his argument that girls that like to have sex are ruining it for girls that don't. Political correctness has nothing to do with a message you're trying to convey. You can't protect yourself by saying "I know that what I'm saying sounds sexist but it's not" when what you're saying is sexist. Just like you can't protect yourself from being a racist by first putting a disclaimer beforehand. Or saying anything dumb and then trying to explain it away as "I was just misunderstood." Todd Akin and Richard Mourdock tried that strategy, saying exactly the same things that you are telling me. That they were being misinterpreted by those that don't like them simply because they "misspoke." But life doesn't work like that. Words have meanings behind them and the words women and sluts are not interchangeable. And as to your point that I don't know Idra you're absolutely correct, I don't. And I don't like to infer non-existent points in arguments. The fact is that Idra is only blaming the girls that hang around the scene (since the guys that hang around the scene somehow don't matter). When Idra says that the men-whores who sleep with the willing women are ruining it for the girls that don't, then I'll know that Idra is being critical of them.
That was not his point at all; for someone who says that they don't like "to infer non-existent points" you sure are looking for a stand that no one here has actually taken. Idra is making no claims as to the general nature of femininity or feminist rights, his point was that the females in the scene who put out shit content and remain coddled are more or less ruining it for the women who genuinely love the game of Sc2. In your haste to drop criticisms of people like Mourdouch and Akin (both of whom I personally dislike), you've painted Idra's post in a non-existent light. No one here is suggesting that "women and sluts" are interchangeable, in fact Idra's argument revolves around there being a definite distinction. Sexual liberalism has nothing to do with this, it has to do with the inherent nature of a male-dominated scene.
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On December 07 2012 05:35 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2012 05:27 FryBender wrote:On December 07 2012 03:46 farvacola wrote:On December 07 2012 02:12 FryBender wrote:On December 06 2012 08:43 IdrA wrote:
it really, really blows for the legit girls in the community as they have to put up with all the skepticism cuz of the worthless sluts, but more often than not the cynical bitter portion of the community is actually right on this one.
So if girls that sleep around are "worthless sluts" what does that make the guys that sleep with them? "Slut-shaming" is stupid, pointless, and in the end counterproductive because the premise behind it is that a) it is shameful to have sex and b) that it is somehow the woman's job to control the purse-strings to the sex. Therefore if a guy hooks up with someone he, for whatever reason, shouldn't have it is still the girl's fault because the man just can't help it but the woman should have known better. It reduces men to automotons who have no control over their pants, and women to prudes who begrudgingly allow the men to do whatever they want as if the woman gets nothing out of it and so should know better. While your point may be semi-valid (although I think it takes the blame off of the guys who are a willing party to the act) use of words matter and you should correct yourself. If you think Idra isn't critical of male community members who feed into bad content or attention whoring, you don't know Idra. And sure, he used very politically incorrect language, but to pretend that his use of misogynistic words invalidates his point is PC pedantic nonsense. You agree that he used words that convey a message (a misogynistic one) and then you go and say that it doesn't invalidate his point on the view of women. Clearly he has a strong viewpoint on whether or not women and men are equal in sexual liberalism but I guess I'm just being pedantic. As a matter of fact his main argument would have no point if he didn't use that very specific crude word like slut. That word has a very specific connotation in his argument that girls that like to have sex are ruining it for girls that don't. Political correctness has nothing to do with a message you're trying to convey. You can't protect yourself by saying "I know that what I'm saying sounds sexist but it's not" when what you're saying is sexist. Just like you can't protect yourself from being a racist by first putting a disclaimer beforehand. Or saying anything dumb and then trying to explain it away as "I was just misunderstood." Todd Akin and Richard Mourdock tried that strategy, saying exactly the same things that you are telling me. That they were being misinterpreted by those that don't like them simply because they "misspoke." But life doesn't work like that. Words have meanings behind them and the words women and sluts are not interchangeable. And as to your point that I don't know Idra you're absolutely correct, I don't. And I don't like to infer non-existent points in arguments. The fact is that Idra is only blaming the girls that hang around the scene (since the guys that hang around the scene somehow don't matter). When Idra says that the men-whores who sleep with the willing women are ruining it for the girls that don't, then I'll know that Idra is being critical of them. That was not his point at all; for someone who says that they don't like "to infer non-existent points" you sure are looking for a stand that no one here has actually taken. Idra is making no claims as to the general nature of femininity or feminist rights, his point was that the females in the scene who put out shit content and remain coddled are more or less ruining it for the women who genuinely love the game of Sc2. In your haste to drop criticisms of people like Mourdouch and Akin (both of whom I personally dislike), you've painted Idra's post in a non-existent light. No one here is suggesting that "women and sluts" are interchangeable, in fact Idra's argument revolves around their being a definite distinction. Sexual liberalism has nothing to do with this, it has to do with the inherent nature of a male-dominated scene.
Idra has taken a stand that "sluts" in SC2 scene are ruining it for the rest of the women. That's what I quoted in my original response. You agreed that that was misogynistic but said that Idra thinks the same about the men because you know him. I said it doesn't matter if you say that Idra says the same about the men and that the statement "worthless sluts" is inherently incorrect as it holds women to a different standard. Now you're coming back and say
females in the scene who put out shit content and remain coddled are more or less ruining it for the women who genuinely love the game of Sc2
So again you're still agreeing with me that Idra is calling these females who are in the SC2 scene for attention "worthless sluts." How is that ok?
Finally, I'm not sure if you see the irony of all of this, but Idra has had the exact same criticism leveled against him (that lately his results are not worthy of the type of attention that he gets and that he makes it harder for others who are more "worhty" to get into the scene). So does that mean that Idra is a worthless slut as well because he is coddled by the masses for putting out shit results?
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Unless you want to point to a single example of a girl who has slept/manipulated her way to a prominent position within the scene, yeah - your point is void.
All you're doing is adding to this weird misconception which stems from ignorance. Why are there no examples if these girls are the norm? The majority? I know not of one community figure who fits the profile. Groupies, sure, but are you saying groupies should be ashamed of themselves? Why? They're not in any undeserved spotlight, only you and the other players and people within the scene know of them, if you have a problem with their behavior, that's your problem and not one that concerns the community.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
On December 05 2012 18:05 BrightSideSC2 wrote:By the way, I have ONE love, who I completely respect and cherish, and I have absolutely NO desire to 'get with' anyone else at events (or anywhere).
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/uvU6C.jpg)
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Canada5155 Posts
Torte x Brightside 4 ever
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ROFL
edit: to contribute: the real bottom-line is that those who really matter in the scene don't judge so swiftly about people, especially those they meet in-person.
Everyone else just likes to talk.
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EPT
