• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:09
CEST 09:09
KST 16:09
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-66SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-64PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August)11Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE15
StarCraft 2
General
SC4ALL II: StarCraft 2 Player Announcement 2/8 Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) August World Ranking: Clem climbs to #2 Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week
Tourneys
SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-6 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event INu's Battles #19 2-Days Event
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch Mutation # 535 Assembly of Vengeance
Brood War
General
[Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60 BW Drama: Terror's Debt Incident + C9 disbanding BW General Discussion Recent recommended BW games ASL22 General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2v2v2v2 Tournament SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-6 Escore Tournament - Season 3
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live! Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The Clem Fan Club INnoVation Fan Club The Scarlett Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
What is a Gamer?
TrAiDoS
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3181 users

Movin' on up to level 4!

Blogs > Faldinerous
Post a Reply
Faldinerous
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States62 Posts
November 16 2012 08:55 GMT
#1
End of day feelings: Progress!
Things focused on: Steps 2 and 3 of the Staircase
Completion of Focus: Finished Steps 2 and 3! Average SQ of 80.7
End of Day Placement: Bronze (Top 8!)

I started out today continuing trying to do my normal build with the Staircase technique of only building certain units... after a few games I realized that only making marines it is so hard to keep my SQ low with that one barracks fast expand build I was doing because I end up with my 2nd expansion just before 10:00 which makes my money skyrocket... which is good but only making barracks and CCs it means that I have to expand again soon in order to do something with all this money, so then I get my 4th base at like 14:00 and then I just run out of space to build more barracks fast enough to keep my money low and places that are safe... so I have like 30 Barracks and am churning out so many marines... who then all disintegrate because my opponent has tanks. Oh well.

So all of that is to say that I stopped doing the one barracks fast expand and now start expanding closer to 7 or 8 minutes and get my third around 15 etc. This is for two reasons... Firstly is mentioned above. Secondly it's because the fast expand is to get an early economic advantage, however it's not a real advantage if it just means that I have a crapton of money saved up. I'd be better off not expanding till later and building a big army quicker, which will help more when I am not building any tech stuff, if I can attack him before he's got tanks then I'm likely to win, but if he sieges up then I'm just going to throw meat at him till he overwhelms me.

So I switched builds and my SQ skyrocketed (the low average is from my first game in level 3 where I had an SQ of 30 with my old build). In fact on my 3rd pass on level 3 I managed to get a 107 SQ!

So I managed to work through levels 2 and 3 today, so starting tomorrow I am going to be building marines and marauders and able to micro them as well. I'm not doing a LOT of micro when I'm microing, but things like focus firing and going up ramps and whatnot make a pretty big difference.

*
"i should have warmed up against the AI 1st... getting beaten by such a noob is embarassing"
Jombozeus
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
China1014 Posts
November 16 2012 09:02 GMT
#2
wat da fak is SQ?
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-16 09:20:03
November 16 2012 09:16 GMT
#3
On November 16 2012 18:02 Jombozeus wrote:
wat da fak is SQ?

Spending Quotient, defined originally in this thread:
Basically, how low you keep your money.
:)
Zealos
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom3576 Posts
November 16 2012 10:00 GMT
#4
I think you've completely missed the point of the exercise. If you are unable to keep your money low building marines off 2 bases, then you're not meant to move to the next stage.

You say the early expansion isn't an advantage when you can't spend the money, but that's the entire point of the exercise, learning how.
On the internet if you disagree with or dislike something you're angry and taking it too seriously. == Join TLMafia !
Tobberoth
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden6375 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-16 12:14:05
November 16 2012 11:52 GMT
#5
On November 16 2012 19:00 Zealos wrote:
I think you've completely missed the point of the exercise. If you are unable to keep your money low building marines off 2 bases, then you're not meant to move to the next stage.

You say the early expansion isn't an advantage when you can't spend the money, but that's the entire point of the exercise, learning how.

This. SQ lies to you if you get better SQ by having less resources, you're supposed to build more marines, not build less bases. You simply need to learn to build barracks and marines faster, you should be able to have 10 bases and still keep minerals down. Besides, with a 1rax expand -> mass marines, you should pretty much win by 10-12 minutes in bronze if you literally keep your minerals down, just check filterSCs bronze videos, this is exactly what he is doing. (Should be noted that with 50 SCVs on 2 bases, you need a surprising amount of barracks to keep minerals down building only marines, I'm talking 15 or more raxes, your main base will usually not be enough space, so you need to spam raxes everywhere... which is fine, because unless your opponent has amazing macro, he can't touch you with the amount of marines you should have.)

The main point, which I think is covered a few times in the original SQ thread, is that SQ by itself is pretty useless, it only makes sense in relation to income. Higher income = harder to maintain good SQ. Anyone can have perfect SQ on one base with only 10 workers.
Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-16 12:36:58
November 16 2012 12:35 GMT
#6
Man I don't know about any of this crazy SQ staircase mamma jamma stuff but congrats on getting to the top of bronze. Just keep practicing and study (actually study, write it down and memorize it!) builds and practice against the AI.

Edit: I rarely have the desire to ladder any more but if need someone to play a punching bag, shoot me a PM and I'll macro and defend while you do your stuff.
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
MaestroSC
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2073 Posts
November 16 2012 20:56 GMT
#7
ur def missing the entire point of the exercise lol...

the point is to show you you need more barracks, so you can produce more marines = spending your money better.. the idea isnt just to build another CC everytime u get 400 minerals because you arent building enough rax/marines lolol....

this is like getting to a point where you have 20 CC's and only 2 rax... but ur money is low so you think ur macro'ing well lol
Faldinerous
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States62 Posts
November 17 2012 01:26 GMT
#8
Thanks for your comments guys, I appreciate the feedback.

You make some good points. I don't feel like I explained myself really well in my original post, but that said anyway I think you're right for the most part. I still feel like trying to clarify a little bit but will do my best to make it not sound like "nuh uh." If you don' believe me skip to the end where I say you're right again and conclude this.

I'm not having issues producing marines off of 2 bases, that's easy, the problems I was having started with my 3rd base and then were worst when I had 4 mining bases. At 3 bases I'm pulling in around 2400 minerals per minute (not counting mules) meaning that I would need 24 barracks churning out marines non stop and would still have enough left to build depots and still probably float around 200 minerals. I could do the math, but this is close enough. Doing this I've had my income peak as high as 3027 which is 30 barracks pumping out marines.

Looking back over my games I've seen where my problems lied the most in keeping my SQ low in these games with this fast expanding mode. Firstly there is a rule built into the staircase saying that you can't build more than your current active CCs +1 barracks at any one time, and with that rule I just couldn't get up to those huge (24-30) barracks numbers fast enough to pump out marines. The other main reason that I was having issues was my army would max out and then I have 2k+ coming in per minute that I can't do anything with until I can attack which a minute at 4k minerals will destroy your average unspent. Lastly I just had issues finding places for all these barracks I was throwing up which made me REALLY easy to kill since I was so spread out. When I won I won in the first 10-12 minutes, but against all of the people walling in with cannons bunkers and planetary fortresses attack moving marines into those just makes them line up like lemmings. (The attack move is part of the staircase)

So, all that being said. Again, you're right. (Told ya so! ) And I'm going to go back to the 1 barracks fast expand build that I got from Filter, but I am going to tweak the way I was doing it. I still like the idea of taking a third, but I think I'm going to try and take the third a lot closer to the 12-14 minute area than the 9-10 I was aiming for before. Filter never does take a third with this (until video 7 I think) so combining these learning strategies is going to need a bit of tweaking here and there I think. also when I get to step 5 where I start making medivacs it will turn it a lot more into a "normal" build and then it will be easier to spend money when I have something to spend it on that costs more than 50 minerals. When I get there I will probably go back to the 10 minute 3rd I have planned eventually.

Again, thanks for the comments and the feedback. It's great to hear positive feedback, but it's always more beneficial to have people tell you when you're doing something wrong. The "you're doing great!" comments help keep my spirits up, while the "Hey dumbass knock it off" stuff keeps me in the right direction, both are greatly appreciated.
"i should have warmed up against the AI 1st... getting beaten by such a noob is embarassing"
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 52m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 159
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 4540
Tasteless 404
Bisu 138
Leta 131
PianO 109
Mind 78
ggaemo 73
Hyun 21
JYJ 20
Bale 20
[ Show more ]
ZergMaN 18
Icarus 14
Noble 12
League of Legends
JimRising 636
Other Games
summit1g5277
ceh9463
Fuzer 137
Happy63
Livibee56
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick657
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• practicex 26
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Mapu32
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2194
League of Legends
• Lourlo1154
• Stunt1062
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
1h 52m
Kung Fu Cup
3h 52m
Replay Cast
16h 52m
The PondCast
1d 2h
OSC
1d 2h
INu's Battles
1d 3h
Percival vs Cure
Classic vs Clem
Replay Cast
1d 16h
Escore
2 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
herO vs SHIN
Clem vs Solar
Serral vs Rogue
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
4 days
WardiTV Weekly
5 days
The Patches Monday
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
PiG Sty Festival
6 days
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-03
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
Acropolis #5
RSL Revival: Season 6
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W6
Escore Tournament S3: W7
CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Escore Tournament S3: W8
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
Thunderpick World Champ.
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.