EPT
Best of Five - Page 3
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chambertin
United States1704 Posts
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OpticalShot
Canada6330 Posts
I personally prefer Bo5 because it feels like each set is valued a little higher than in a Bo7, yet the series is long enough to allow room for strategic risks and planning. | ||
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MCDayC
United Kingdom14464 Posts
On the one hand, Bo5 does mean each game matters more, comebacks are more possible. On the other hand, Bo7 means the finals are truly differentiated from the rest of the tournament, and when the comebacks do happen (or even when they come really close to happening, see DRG vs MMA Blizzcup for one of the most insane finals games in the history of anything ever) they mean a huge amount. In this case I think it is really up to the tournament, there is no real right or wrong answer imo. | ||
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Leyra
United States1222 Posts
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On July 17 2012 00:23 Leyra wrote: Really interesting read, my biggest nit to pick is the reference to NBA vs NFL... You really can't compare the two, they're like apples and oranges ;D Well, I was just trying to show that there are multiple valid philosophies when running a playoff. Things can be exciting even if the better team isn't definitely going to win. Maybe an NBA vs NCAA hoops comparison would have been clearer, but that comparison and the one I used serve the same purpose in my mind. | ||
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fire_brand
Canada1123 Posts
I used to be a fan of the Bo7 thinking the more the better right? Well after 2 years of Bo7s I can confidently say this is not the case. In fact more often than not it's the exact opposite. There have been numerous absolutely terrible bo7s in SC2 with lopsided 4-0s probably being the most common result. When a series gets to 3-0 the chance of a comeback happening is pretty close to non-existent and by that point both players know it. The last game in 4-0 sweep is usually a rather pathetic game and no one wants to watch it. Rather just bust out the medals and wrap the tournament out because the fans are as burned out as the players. Bo5s have seen some of the most exciting and dramatic results in competitive gaming. The OSL and MSL finals never seem to disappoint. Even in the odd occasion where there is a 3-0 sweep you never feel like the loser was truly out of it until the trophy is being handed out. Point in case the Korean Air OSL finals between effort and Flash, one of the most epic and exciting series ever to be played was a situation where it looked like flash was just going to sweep effort in God-like fashion, but a failed cheese, and a couple sneaky plays by effort ended up swinging the series around and allowing effort to claim the prize. Even a comeback from down 2-0 is pretty amazing and makes for really exciting viewing and story telling. Even the recent bo5s we've seen in SC2 that were NOT finals created some pretty dramatic and exciting series. The NASL playoff games that both saw Huk and hero go down 2-0 in rather simple fashion ended up being exciting come from behind victories for both players. And people who watched the first two games probably watched the last three as well. When a series goes 3-0 in one players favour in a bo7 I just turn it off, and I'm probably not alone in that. It's just too much. I do have one exception. Teamleagues. The only reason it works in teamleagues is because it's not the same 2 players grinding themselves into fatigue. It's up to 7 different individuals from both teams. And there's all sorts of other dynamics in the teamleagues as well. Snipers, Aces, Hotstreaks, Coach's decisions. It's not just two players locked in the same matchup grinding out up to seven games against each other. I think the few series that have gone to seven games have been miraculous. But you're playing the percentages. There's a much better chance of a game going to 5 games then 7. There's a much better chance of those games being good then those 7 games being good. There's a much better chance of the players playing at 100% over 5 games then 7. And there's a much better chance the fans are still going to be interested in your finals after 3 or 4 games then after 5 or 6. We really need to bring back bo5s. Quality over quantity. | ||
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Azzur
Australia6252 Posts
One thing I do feel very strongly about is that I dislike double elimination immensely. I'm so happy that many tournaments are now moving into a GSL style format - groups for early rounds followed by single-elimination playoffs. | ||
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docvoc
United States5491 Posts
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xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
On July 16 2012 22:15 motbob wrote: Bo5 0-2 is equivalent to Bo7 1-3 from a certain standpoint, and a comeback from 1-3 has, as I've said, been done only once. In BW, there are two 0-2 comebacks that I can name off the top of my head. Off the top of my head, Jaedong vs Fantasy, GGplay vs iris and Effort vs Flash. Must be at least a couple more in history? anyway I agree with this completely, Best of 5 is just right imo. | ||
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EAGER-beaver
Canada2799 Posts
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GinDo
3327 Posts
Personally, I don't think Bo5 is good for SC2. The game is very volatile and games often end a few minutes. We only think the game is longer because of the broken Blizzard Clock. | ||
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MCXD
Australia2738 Posts
"Increased its perceived quality" is not accurate. You need to keep in mind that this is a forum of teenagers. If you asked any of them if the game was objectively good or bad, they would have said bad. What made it worth watching was the hype. Nobody magically thought the game was objectively good. People just vote from the heart, not the brain. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On July 16 2012 23:00 garbanzo wrote: Umm...he brings up very valid statistics, data, and analysis. If anything he's doing the opposite of what you're saying. Except his "valid statistics, data and analysis" do absolutely nothing to support his actual point. The only thing objective about his post is the number of series that have gone to a final game. Not a single one of his numbers tells me why a series that goes to the final game is automatically better. | ||
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garbanzo
United States4046 Posts
On July 17 2012 06:53 WolfintheSheep wrote: Except his "valid statistics, data and analysis" do absolutely nothing to support his actual point. The only thing objective about his post is the number of series that have gone to a final game. Not a single one of his numbers tells me why a series that goes to the final game is automatically better. What about the viewer's ranking of the last game in a series? | ||
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L3gendary
Canada1470 Posts
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RiceAgainst
United States1849 Posts
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
On July 17 2012 16:00 Foolishness wrote: Intriguing post yes, but I think that the players' perspective needs to be accounted for here. Do you think the players' prefer Bo5 or Bo7? I would imagine they would prefer Bo7 when it comes down to it, because as you said it is more likely assured that the best player wins. And as you stated in a Bo3 an upset is more likely when you look at things from a statistical standpoint. How great does a win really feel if it's not deserved because you had an edge to take advantage of from the format? Do you think they prefer a marginal statistical advantage or the ability to prepare as well as possible for the whole serie ? Pretty easy choice imho... | ||
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ZapRoffo
United States5544 Posts
My sister and I were just talking about this a few days ago too with HSC, and right at the beginning of the finals we were both like "ugh bo7 coming up? I don't think I'm in for that long of an investment more." Especially on the tail end of games beforehand. On it's own day like TSL or GSL or the BW tournaments, it's a bit more palatable, being the whole event of the day. | ||
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Malinor
Germany4716 Posts
Less games and less maps would really not be a bad thing at all. The only problem with Bo5 I see is just that SC2 games are so incredibly short, a 3-0 can literally be over in 25 minutes including breaks in between. I really wish the game was a bit slower (well, I said the same thing before in this thread). | ||
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