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Grad School Ruined my Confidence - Page 2

Blogs > Zaranth
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Zaranth
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States345 Posts
July 12 2012 14:45 GMT
#21
First things first - I'm not going to quit. I am very close to graduation, and I want to make all you guys have to call me "Doctor." More than that, I've worked my ass off to get this far, and I'm not going to quit - even though some days I really want to! I went into this thinking that I would be able to get a teaching job when I was done. I want to teach at the collegiate level, not in high school - talk about no pay and no appreciation! I did think that I could get a job right after - this seems to not be the case. :-( I am doing what I can to get experience while I am still in grad school. I'm taking courses for a Practicum in College Teaching through another school in the area. I'm almost done with that. I've been a mentor and an TA for grad school and med school courses. I refuse to do a post-doc, so we'll see where I end up. Even if I have to teach at a community college for a bit to gain experience, that's what I'll do. I'm not interested in becoming a PI (principal investigator), just a teacher.

Thanks for your comments everyone, guess I have to keep on keeping on and hope that everything will work itself out. Still sucks though. :-/
Maker of Cheerfuls @eZaranth
fritfrat
Profile Joined August 2010
United States50 Posts
July 12 2012 15:42 GMT
#22
Have you considered working in industry? I was a chemist in undergrad- now a medical student, but I have friends who went to grad school for chemistry. It's probably more common for chemists than biologists to work in industry, but I'm sure there are possibilities that are at least worth considering.
I would also agree that I feel like most professors at the big schools that require post-docs are primarily PIs anyways, not teachers. At least that lines up for your interests.
+1 for southeast Michigan, too. Good luck finishing out.
Zaranth
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States345 Posts
July 12 2012 16:13 GMT
#23
Also, for those of you who want to know what it's really like to work in a lab, check this out:

http://whatshouldwecallgradschool.tumblr.com/
Maker of Cheerfuls @eZaranth
babylon
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
8765 Posts
July 12 2012 17:37 GMT
#24
Remember that grad school doesn't determine what kind of person you are, nor does it indicate how intelligent you are. Many of the brightest students drop out of programs not because they weren't "smart" enough, but because they couldn't stand the bullshit of academia. The ones who succeed are often the ones who are persistent and willing to stand an extreme amount of abuse to their confidence; of course persistence and intelligence aren't mutually exclusive, but if there's one quality you'll find in almost every single graduate student, it's the former, not necessarily the latter.

In any case, I hope it works out for you. Good luck in academia!
spacemonkey4eve
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States267 Posts
July 12 2012 21:13 GMT
#25
I'm going to start my 6th year in cancer biology phd next month, and going through the same motions you are going through. I have lost most of my motivation to cross the finish line, but at the same time I can't quit now with all the shit I've gone through to get this far. My fellow lab mates tell me I'm more than half way done to finishing my paper and setting up a thesis defense date, but I just don't feel like I have it in me to get it done. My last committee meeting was in December so I'm a little overdue for one ( I'm also supposed to meet with them every 6 months) and I'm scared shitless about what will happen that meeting, lol. But I can imagine how soul-crushing it is to optimize your experiment for 1 year. As for me, I had to switch projects twice and that's been quite disheartening for me. I have no plans to do a post-doc, and sometimes I wonder if I'd be happier as a core-staff/technician who just works 9-5 and gives no shit about grants or papers. I'm also considering HS science teaching or patent law.

Anyhoo, your situation is basically a mirror of my own. Since you already have a first co-author paper, it looks like you are making better progress than most and I'm sure you'll do well. You and I are going through the "bitter senior grad student phase" as my labmates would put it, and it's entirely normal for most people going into their 5th year and beyond.
Mothra
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States1448 Posts
July 15 2012 23:26 GMT
#26
On July 13 2012 01:13 Zaranth wrote:
Also, for those of you who want to know what it's really like to work in a lab, check this out:

http://whatshouldwecallgradschool.tumblr.com/


These are hysterical.
circoleah
Profile Joined September 2013
1 Post
September 16 2013 02:36 GMT
#27
Dear Zaranth,

I'm hoping that you will still see this message even though the board is so old.

I just want you to know that what has happened to you has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with you, your abilities, or your intelligence. I am so sorry to hear your story-because it is so similar to mine!

I was studying engineering at the "top university" in Canada - and it was horrible! It was like a prison camp - they get you super stressed out, take away your sleep, then feed you all of their ideas. For us it was: "Engineers are the super elite. If you are too weak go into something easy like arts." We were losing 3 - 4 kids to suicide every year. One day I went to class and everyone was so quite - I was told a kid from our year killed himself because the pressure from finals was too much. He just couldn't take it anymore. Normally when something this tragic happens they bring in grief counsellors to help students and staff cope right? Well we got a 15 minute lecture from our dean telling us that "He was too weak to be an engineer. If any of you are feeling too weak I recommend that you quit engineering and go into something softer." Seriously! I think this is what finally broke my spirit so deeply - to loose one of your peers over something so stupid? Not acceptable. Education is not supposed to cost you your life! But, everyone around you just sucks it up and tries to pretend like nothing is wrong... so I feel like I'm totally crazy - how can no one else care about him?

Then there were little things happening on a regular basis. I got an email from our dean telling me that he thought I was "wasting my time with engineering". One time I got an email saying that my grades indicated that I was struggling and that I should seek out help - that I was below the class average. Which was confusing to me because my grades were good that semester. Someone else in my class figured out the trick- he got the email too and stood up and asked all 120 of us - please raise your hand if you got this email - the ENTIRE class raised their hands. Every single student raised put their hand up - now, how can every student be below the class average? Then there were the impossible to pass exams. Sounds crazy right? They were literally mathematically impossible to get a grade over 40%. We were given our physics midterm- a 10 question multiple choice test. Ok, so during the exam most of my answers weren't matching to the choices given so I just ended up guessing. This really killed my confidence because I was doing so well - I knew my stuff going into the exam - but I guess not! I really thought I was going crazy. So we go into class on monday and our prof has this big grin on his face - he goes on to explain that some of the questions had no correct answers in the choices - it was a "typo" he said. He then told us that some of the questions had the wrong numbers written in the problems - a "mistake". And so, it was impossible to get over a 40% on the exam - and it was still going to be counted in our averages. How does this make any sense? What is the point of this? Did he do it on purpose? Then I get an internship - in another country - another COUNTRY! So i move there and work there for 2 months. Wasn't getting paid much at all but I needed to get the credit to graduate. I start getting these weird emails/phone messages from my coordinator saying that he has found some jobs for me to do since I couldn't get a real internship. So I got back to him and was like, what do you mean? I've been working for over 2 months at my internship. Turns out the paperwork was never processed - I found my internship kind of late - I handed in the paperwork on a monday - it was due by the end of that friday. The woman in charge of this didn't process my forms until the next week and marked me as "FAILED INTERNSHIP"! because the deadline had passed.

Or what about this girl in economics - she had above average grades in all of her classes - never failed anything - handed in her forms to graduate. She got an email from the dean of economics saying that she was not going to be allowed to graduate because she "didn't deserve it"! She ended up going to an advisor and she snuck her into the list so she could get her degree without the dean finding out.

Or, what about these 2 kids in accounting. They were on their second to last semester - they both failed a super hard elective class by .01% and were both kicked out of school. But the one kid was active in student activities so they let him back in and he got to graduate!

Perhaps the worst was my friend who was an international student. His visa expired but he didn't realize it. Instead of the school calling him to let him know - the school called the government and had him deported! Can you imagine? A 19 year old kid has this team of government agents show up at his door, force him into a van, and put him on the next plane to Bangladesh?

My point in sharing these stories with you is because there were moments where everything was so ridiculous I felt like I was going insane! ( Like, how could any of this be happening? Is this real life? What is wrong with me!? ) And I don't want you to feel like that! It's not you!

If you take yourself away from all of the chaos you can see how the work you're doing is incredible! And you should be proud of what you're doing. Research is called research because its not all guaranteed! You're doing it right if stuff isn't working - isn't that why you're doing it in the first place? To find out what works and what doesn't?

I don't know when "education" got so out of hand. It's clear to me now that my university's top priority was getting rid of people. It had nothing to do with learning, strengthening students, or inspiring innovation. The point of education now is survival. Unfortunately, this is showing in the upper year students. They can't design.

Also, there seems to be this break in understanding of what education is about. In high school you're pressured to much to "get an education" but when you get there it's torture! And has nothing to do with learning. And then your family is like what's wrong with you? Why aren't your grades higher? Are you partying too much? School is simple- you just study and do well. No- there is nothing simple about this.

Final thought- Why is it like this anyway? My profs would preach that engineering was an "elite" career - that only the smartest, brightest, gifted students could become one. They said that school was made to be so stressful so that you would be able to handle the immense stress level on the job. That engineering was like war - you're given impossible life or death situations to solve everyday. Now I'm like... Who are they kidding? The most "intense" engineering jobs I can think of are building planes, medical devices, rockets, etc. But wouldn't you want someone who is calm, collected, and confident working on those things? So basically, all of this "training" was for nothing.





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