• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:53
CEST 01:53
KST 08:53
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy19ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
$5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy3GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding6Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win0[BSL22] RO32 Group Stage5Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple6
StarCraft 2
General
JD's Ro24 review Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy Quebec Clan still alive ? BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool
Tourneys
$5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Season 4 announced for March-April
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone
Brood War
General
JD's Ro24 review BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL21 General Discussion [BSL22] RO32 Group Stage BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [ASL21] Ro24 Group F [BSL22] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CEST
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Muta micro map competition What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The China Politics Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Streamers Inspire Gamers…
TrAiDoS
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Electronics
mantequilla
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2606 users

Epiphany - the benefits of failure

Blogs > dongfeng
Post a Reply
dongfeng
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
731 Posts
July 09 2012 03:01 GMT
#1
" An art teacher did an experiment with his ceramic class. He divided the class into two. The left side was graded purely on the quantity of ceramics they produced and the right side purely on the quality. For the left side, the art teacher mentioned that he would bring in a set of bathroom scales and if 25kg of pots was created, he would award them an A, 20kg a B and so on.

The side graded on quality merely needed to produce one pot, albeit a perfect one.

What was astonishing was that the quantity side were producing by far the better quality pots. It seems that while the quantity group was busy churning out piles of pots and learning from their mistakes, the quality group was using a lot of time to develop grandiose theories and had not much to show for it."

John C Maxwell


I hope you guys get as much out of this story as I did. I have always been the "quality" person, using "minimal" effort but a lot of time is wasted on theorising the best possible solution, when in actual fact it may be more efficient to just try and fail, try again etc.

*****
DRTnOOber
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
New Zealand476 Posts
July 09 2012 03:06 GMT
#2
Nice quote

On the flip side of the same idea though...

I have a friend who plays Starcraft 2. He plays thousands of games, and is stuck in Gold league. Although he's doing things over and over again he isn't consciously assessing his replays or what he needs to work on, and so he doesn't improve. He used to be able to beat me, and after I did maybe two dozen ladder matches he didn't stand a chance against me simply because I was very consciously working on my weak areas.

So there's trial and error, and making mistakes, but you can significantly reduce the time required to get good at something by being smart about how you approach it.
But I'm off creep... and so I slow down, what are hellions doing here? I don't belong here...
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-09 03:41:33
July 09 2012 03:21 GMT
#3
I find the opposite true of computer programs. There's a lot of trial and error needed to learn the material, but taking some time out to really think about some buggy code beats hours of hammering away trying to figure out the problem. 20 minutes with the debugger beats two hours of print statements.

This really sucks when you're working with a language that doesn't have good debuggers (PHP up until maybe this year, Octave, R).

Perhaps what I'm saying is that trial and error is a great way to learn new material, but it perhaps isn't the best way to actually approach improving for veterans. There's more to be gained from trial and error for people beginning to make pottery because the students learned a lot of muscle memory, and everything they learned was simple.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
dongfeng
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
731 Posts
July 09 2012 03:33 GMT
#4
good points - i think that a combination of a "smart" approach to assessing the failures gained through repeated application is key then

docvoc
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States5491 Posts
July 09 2012 03:58 GMT
#5
I feel like that is a general rule, the more expereince, the better .
User was warned for too many mimes.
DRTnOOber
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
New Zealand476 Posts
July 09 2012 09:36 GMT
#6
On July 09 2012 12:21 obesechicken13 wrote:
I find the opposite true of computer programs. There's a lot of trial and error needed to learn the material, but taking some time out to really think about some buggy code beats hours of hammering away trying to figure out the problem. 20 minutes with the debugger beats two hours of print statements.

This really sucks when you're working with a language that doesn't have good debuggers (PHP up until maybe this year, Octave, R).

Perhaps what I'm saying is that trial and error is a great way to learn new material, but it perhaps isn't the best way to actually approach improving for veterans. There's more to be gained from trial and error for people beginning to make pottery because the students learned a lot of muscle memory, and everything they learned was simple.

I don't have a good Perl debugger at work... and you know Perl, right? It's so easy to break your entire program with a single wrong key stroke... Print statements galore. My colleague has Komodo which has a Perl debugger but I don't get a licence
But I'm off creep... and so I slow down, what are hellions doing here? I don't belong here...
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL
19:00
RO32 Group A
n0maD vs perroflaco
TerrOr vs ZZZero
MadiNho vs WolFix
DragOn vs LancerX
ZZZero.O210
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft357
Ketroc 66
ProTech42
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 459
ZZZero.O 210
910 38
NaDa 9
Dota 2
canceldota395
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor172
Other Games
gofns22359
summit1g15587
FrodaN1948
C9.Mang070
ROOTCatZ16
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick732
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH112
• RyuSc2 61
• musti20045 31
• HeavenSC 30
• Adnapsc2 26
• davetesta24
• Kozan
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• 3DClanTV 38
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift4898
Other Games
• Scarra751
• tFFMrPink 14
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
10h 7m
WardiTV Team League
11h 7m
OSC
13h 7m
BSL
19h 7m
Sterling vs Azhi_Dahaki
Napoleon vs Mazur
Jimin vs Nesh
spx vs Strudel
IPSL
19h 7m
Artosis vs TBD
Napoleon vs TBD
Replay Cast
1d 9h
Wardi Open
1d 10h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 10h
Soma vs YSC
Sharp vs sSak
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 16h
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Snow vs PianO
hero vs Rain
[ Show More ]
GSL
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Escore
5 days
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
IPSL
6 days
WolFix vs nOmaD
dxtr13 vs Razz
BSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W2
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W3
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
RSL Revival: Season 5
WardiTV TLMC #16
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.