• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:39
CEST 16:39
KST 23:39
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners6Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)8[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June4Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th156Weekly Cups (May 18-24): MaxPax wins doubles0
StarCraft 2
General
High level ptr replays? where can I find them? StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection
Tourneys
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) GSL Code S Season 2 (2026)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed Mutation # 528 Infection Detected Welcome to the External Content forum
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? [BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Grand Finals [BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Summer Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread Cricket [SPORT] TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Does Workplace Frustration D…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8652 users

Epiphany - the benefits of failure

Blogs > dongfeng
Post a Reply
dongfeng
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
731 Posts
July 09 2012 03:01 GMT
#1
" An art teacher did an experiment with his ceramic class. He divided the class into two. The left side was graded purely on the quantity of ceramics they produced and the right side purely on the quality. For the left side, the art teacher mentioned that he would bring in a set of bathroom scales and if 25kg of pots was created, he would award them an A, 20kg a B and so on.

The side graded on quality merely needed to produce one pot, albeit a perfect one.

What was astonishing was that the quantity side were producing by far the better quality pots. It seems that while the quantity group was busy churning out piles of pots and learning from their mistakes, the quality group was using a lot of time to develop grandiose theories and had not much to show for it."

John C Maxwell


I hope you guys get as much out of this story as I did. I have always been the "quality" person, using "minimal" effort but a lot of time is wasted on theorising the best possible solution, when in actual fact it may be more efficient to just try and fail, try again etc.

*****
DRTnOOber
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
New Zealand476 Posts
July 09 2012 03:06 GMT
#2
Nice quote

On the flip side of the same idea though...

I have a friend who plays Starcraft 2. He plays thousands of games, and is stuck in Gold league. Although he's doing things over and over again he isn't consciously assessing his replays or what he needs to work on, and so he doesn't improve. He used to be able to beat me, and after I did maybe two dozen ladder matches he didn't stand a chance against me simply because I was very consciously working on my weak areas.

So there's trial and error, and making mistakes, but you can significantly reduce the time required to get good at something by being smart about how you approach it.
But I'm off creep... and so I slow down, what are hellions doing here? I don't belong here...
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-09 03:41:33
July 09 2012 03:21 GMT
#3
I find the opposite true of computer programs. There's a lot of trial and error needed to learn the material, but taking some time out to really think about some buggy code beats hours of hammering away trying to figure out the problem. 20 minutes with the debugger beats two hours of print statements.

This really sucks when you're working with a language that doesn't have good debuggers (PHP up until maybe this year, Octave, R).

Perhaps what I'm saying is that trial and error is a great way to learn new material, but it perhaps isn't the best way to actually approach improving for veterans. There's more to be gained from trial and error for people beginning to make pottery because the students learned a lot of muscle memory, and everything they learned was simple.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
dongfeng
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
731 Posts
July 09 2012 03:33 GMT
#4
good points - i think that a combination of a "smart" approach to assessing the failures gained through repeated application is key then

docvoc
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States5491 Posts
July 09 2012 03:58 GMT
#5
I feel like that is a general rule, the more expereince, the better .
User was warned for too many mimes.
DRTnOOber
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
New Zealand476 Posts
July 09 2012 09:36 GMT
#6
On July 09 2012 12:21 obesechicken13 wrote:
I find the opposite true of computer programs. There's a lot of trial and error needed to learn the material, but taking some time out to really think about some buggy code beats hours of hammering away trying to figure out the problem. 20 minutes with the debugger beats two hours of print statements.

This really sucks when you're working with a language that doesn't have good debuggers (PHP up until maybe this year, Octave, R).

Perhaps what I'm saying is that trial and error is a great way to learn new material, but it perhaps isn't the best way to actually approach improving for veterans. There's more to be gained from trial and error for people beginning to make pottery because the students learned a lot of muscle memory, and everything they learned was simple.

I don't have a good Perl debugger at work... and you know Perl, right? It's so easy to break your entire program with a single wrong key stroke... Print statements galore. My colleague has Komodo which has a Perl debugger but I don't get a licence
But I'm off creep... and so I slow down, what are hellions doing here? I don't belong here...
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 21m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Serral 1842
SHIN 124
Vindicta 37
LamboSC2 17
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 61598
firebathero 5472
Calm 4796
Sea 1861
Shuttle 878
EffOrt 828
Light 586
Mini 537
actioN 196
ggaemo 192
[ Show more ]
Nal_rA 171
Hyun 122
Last 106
hero 105
Pusan 92
Sea.KH 67
JYJ 59
HiyA 34
910 33
Sharp 32
ToSsGirL 30
Killer 23
sorry 20
GoRush 19
Sacsri 19
zelot 19
IntoTheRainbow 12
Shine 12
Movie 11
Noble 6
Rock 3
Dota 2
qojqva3156
Counter-Strike
fl0m8229
kRYSTAL_39
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King151
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor340
Other Games
gofns32675
tarik_tv7791
singsing2638
B2W.Neo464
crisheroes325
DeMusliM187
Fuzer 130
KnowMe79
ArmadaUGS73
QueenE44
Organizations
Other Games
EGCTV778
BasetradeTV142
StarCraft 2
angryscii 38
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 8
StarCraft 2
TaKeTV 4
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH135
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota228
League of Legends
• Nemesis5026
Upcoming Events
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
21m
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
4h 21m
Jaystar vs Dewalt
eOnzErG vs TerrOr
XuanXuan vs Bonyth
Mihu vs Dewalt
Messiah vs Jaystar
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
TerrOr vs Dewalt
Wardi Open
20h 21m
OSC
1d 9h
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
OSC
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
6 days
XuanXuan vs Jaystar
Mihu vs Messiah
eOnzErG vs Dewalt
Bonyth vs Jaystar
TerrOr vs Messiah
XuanXuan vs Mihu
eOnzErG vs Jaystar
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - GSB
2026 GSL S2
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Murky Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1

Upcoming

CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.