The mystery within the mystery: The identity of drolets
At first, the Spades affair greatly troubled me. Yet another witch hunt, I despaired. What a dreadful community we find ourselves a part of. And though I still have reservations about how we conducted ourselves in the latest episode of the soap opera we call esports, I got over it. While the idea of mob justice does continue to trouble me, I find myself not caring much one way or the other as to whether the man is or isn't a maphacker. I fear more for those accused in the future who may be innocent, as it seems increasingly likely that Spades isn't. Regardless, that is immaterial to the purpose of this blog. This blog's intention is to examine the question that few, in our collective ire over potential maphacking, seem to be asking. Just who the hell is this drolets guy, anyway?
From my cozy position in my basement and my unenviable status as a neurotic insomniac, I have been attempting to answer this question for myself. Limited in resources as I am, I am only able to gather so much information on our enigmatic whistleblower. (For the sake of simplicity, I shall be referring to our mystery poster using masculine pronouns.)
At first, I believed his username to be pronounced as an English word, with the last syllable pronounced like "let's." However, a Google search yielded a great deal of Quebecois, as "Drolet" is apparently a surname there, albeit an evidently uncommon one (seen at http://www.droletsisters.com/ and http://www.lesdenisdrolet.com/ ). When adding some quotation marks to narrow down the querry, I received, in addition to news about the latest hacking accusation, a single other Starcraft related entry ( http://www.aprenderstarcraft2.es/usuarios/drolets/track ), a user going by the name of "Drolets" on a Spanish Starcraft website. This person's last posting under that account name was May 22 of this year. In one of his posts, he actually writes in English, confirming his ability to be the culprit.
On June 06 2012 00:01 RaGe wrote: I'd like to note that his IP actually does match other TL accounts. NrGMonk is still an inexperienced banling and didn't really use the full IP matching functionality we have.
The mods have a decent idea of who it is, and are discussing whether or not to reveal this information. It's likely we'll make a statement on the entire situation (not just the drama itself, but also the way it was handled) in the coming days.
So, with nothing to go on, I shall examine his post. Foremost, his English is passable for a forum post, but imperfect. Beyond mere typographical errors and the occasional, though not ubiquitous, substitution of "u" for "you," there are numerous sentences which are constructed awkwardly, suggesting he is a nonnative English speaker.
Notably, he uses many prepositions in a manner that a native speaker would generally not.
• Apparently, he is maphacking on Starcraft II too or that is the sensation I had ("on Starcraft II" instead of "in Starcraft II") • I understand there can be hackers on low levels("on low levels" instead of "at low levels" or "in low levels") • This is what I found on the replays("on the replays" instead of "in the replays") • however, he leaves all his hellions on his natural("on his natural" instead of "at his natural" or "in his natural") • Despite having his army on LucifroN's natural(same as above) • again, he unsieges all his tanks on the natural(same as above) • JUST in the moment where the medevaks appear on the minimap ("in the moment where" instead of "at the moment when")
These kinds of errors are indicative of an inexperienced English speaker, not a native speaker typing lazily or carelessly. Specifically, the repeated usage of variations of "on his natural" instead of the more natural sounding "in" or "at," for which there are even more examples than what I listed, is a large part of what convinces me that this person is a nonnative speaker. As Felnarion mentioned, Spanish uses "en" for both "in" and "on." Other languages, like French, have separate words.
• as if he knew 100% sure cloack banshees weren't comming • would be obvious to think that LucifroN's army is comming behind • the position LucifroN's drop is comming • he doesn't see LucifroN's drop comming
There are, again, more of this exact same error than I care to list. Though I'm sure this is a mistake native English speakers make as well (especially given that this is the Internet, and there are thus many instances of the similarly spelled "cumming"), to be made repeatedly throughout the post is suspect. In fact, he never spells it correctly. Even the worst spellers generally get it right accidentally from time to time.
• before scanning he already starts to build a bay for defending against cloack-banshee • as if he knew 100% sure cloack banshees weren't coming • he isn't making any kind of cloack-banshee prevention as he did on the first game
Every instance of "cloak" is instead rendered "cloack." As the sounds that "k" and "ck" make in English are identical, this would seem to be a common problem for one learning English.
On June 05 2012 22:48 Felnarion wrote: Some more facts, further solidifying the Spanish root of the speaker:
His camera NEVER watches a place he hasn't got vision of, neither for scouting, neither for sending units, neither because of a missclick
Neither is a word not often used for a native English speaker, but commonly used in other languages to denote a negative. Reading that in English is somewhat awkward (though perhaps correct) because it's just not used in that sense. Romance languages (French and Spanish specifically, maybe others) would add a "ni" to a list such as this, denoting "neither"
Also search "cloak" on the Spanish version of the site.
Shows that "cloack" returns almost double the hits of "cloak" While on the English website, over 13,000 instances of cloak occur and only 200 or so cloack. Analysis of the French site indicates no favor over one or the other, both appear equally regularly.
• Look how he watches whole LucifroN's army
Native speakers would always say "Lucifron's whole army" and would be unlikely to accidentally transpose the two words.
• Spades doesn't see ANYTHING, but he sieges his tanks right in the elevation
What the poster describes as an "elevation" would almost always be called a "cliff" or simply the "high ground" by a native speaker. Further, a native speaker would likely describe the position the tanks were on as "on the cliff," rather than "in" it. The etymology of "elevate" comes from Latin, whereas "cliff" shares its origin with other Germanic languages. So, it may be that our mystery poster speaks a Romance language like French or Spanish and when reaching for an English word to describe what he was looking at, came up with a Latin cognate (elevation) instead of the more natural-sounding Germanic word (cliff).
• JUST in the moment where the medevaks appear on the minimap • 5 seconds after that LucifroN lift half of his units into 2 medevaks, then Spades select all his vikings and moves forward to try to kill the unseen medevaks. • he changes the direction up to 3 times in less than 5 secs as LucifroN moves his medevak
"Medevak" can be short for "Medizinische Evakuierung," the German phrase for "Medical Evacuation." However, the German SC2 client names the unit "medivac," so, given no other German-related evidence, I do not believe our mystery man to be German-speaking. This is, however, certainly the kind of mistake anyone learning English might make, again displaying our poster struggling with the similar sounds of the hard "c" and "k."
• after asking for the replays and analyzing them there's no doubt.
"Analyzing" is the predominant American and Canadian spelling, whereas "analysing" is used throughout the rest of the Commonwealth. It's also possible he just spelled it incorrectly, which appears to be the case. Further, as Spanish user TheConquereer pointed out, "analizar" is the Spanish word for analyze, which renders this bit of evidence fairly ambiguous.
In general, the post is not particularly well composed, albeit readable, consisting largely of run-on sentences with nary a semicolon in sight, while colons themselves are used only to separate titles and to format time. In addition to those listed, there are numerous spelling and grammar errors, particularly relating to verb tenses.
What conclusions can we draw from this poster's style and mannerisms? Well, he is most certainly not a native English speaker. That he spelled "analyze" as he did suggests he is North American, as a North American would be more likely to be taught the US and Canadian spelling than the Commonwealth one. That he was interested in Spades to begin with, a low-level pro with few accomplishments to his name, further indicates he is American. So, assuming our mystery poster is not a master linguist and able to mimic poor English, that would narrow (insofar as you could call it that) the suspect pool to French Canadians and Latin Americans. Given the name, the former seems most likely. We could potentially narrow that down further by listing Spades former teammates and Starcraft related acquaintances and comparing the writing style of any posts they might have made with the post in question. But that leaves the question of motive. Anyone close enough to Spades to know he was maphacking is surely involved enough in the SC2 community that his or her word would have carried more weight than an anonymous post from behind a proxy or a friend's computer. Certainly the likes of CatZ, Drewbie, Illusion, and TT1 have had no misgivings in offering their opinions. Was Drolet's post intended to inform the public or condemn Spades? Does Spades have any known grudges? His Liquipedia page lists no rivalries.
CONCLUSIONS Another possibility could be that, as the Drolets poster on the Spanish website, our mystery poster is himself a Spaniard, perhaps even the same person. Though Spades is unlikely to draw much of a crowd to a showmatch, LucifroN, one of the few Spanish pro gamers, would certainly stir up interest among Spanish Starcraft players. Perhaps Drolets really is just a concerned SC2 spectator. It could also explain his TL registration date. Maybe he registered after finding the showmatch thread, but decided not to post. That definitely makes sense, but it leaves even more questions unanswered. Why did he feel that Spades was hacking when not only did he lose the showmatch, but no one else seemed to notice? Is Drolets some sort of SC2 Rain Man? How exactly did he obtain the replays? He says he asked for them, but who did he ask? Why has no one come forward? Martijn Mumbles, the man who casted the event, appears outraged at the whole affair ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342248¤tpage=68#1346 ) and has demanded TL reveal the poster's identity, so it seems unlikely he was the one who gave out the replays. Why has Drolets not posted since he created the thread?
E2: On Liquipedia, this Drolets fellow has been editing and creating articles relating to Spanish players (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Special:Contributions/Drolets ). Interestingly, he edited an article related to the Spanish website I first found him on. A blog respondent, netherh, has, by way of methods I do not fully understand, determined that the replays originated from Lucifron's computer ( http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=342492¤tpage=2#22 ).
Given this information, it would appear that the Drolets from "Aprender Starcraft" and the Drolets in question are one and the same. The question still remains: Just who is this guy? And where did he go? Is he a friend of LucifroN's? Given that I doubt Luci would edit Liquipedia under a pseudonym, or at all, I think it's unlikely that Drolets is Lucifron, but the possibility still exists.
Aprender is also listed as Lucifron's former team in the one of articles Drolets edited, which creates another potential connection between the two. ( http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Aprender )
E3: Not much has changed. The most accepted theory is still that Drolets is a low-ranking member of the Spanish SC2 scene. His motive, how he came to his conclusions, and why he has remained silent have yet to be explained. It is possible he is a devoted fan of Lucifron, but some sort of vendetta against Spades has yet to be ruled out.
A few other users have taken up the chase. In particular, Promethelax has examined some users' posts in threads relating to the Spanish SC2 scene. While I am hesitant to point fingers to anyone in particular, you can find his post here. Poster petered expands on his analysis.
It has also been proposed that "Drolets" may be the work of several individuals in collusion. Given the speed at which the hacking allegations were posted after the tournament, it is possible multiple people worked together to scan the replays and then had one person write up their findings and post it on TL. Could Drolets be a patsy, a mere fall guy used as a pawn by the organizers of vast Spanish conspiracy to out Spades as a maphacker? It's definitely possible. Why else would they use an extant TL account, one with ties to the Spanish community both on this site and on others? Surely making a new one would be safer for those involved.
Of course, if we go down that route, this whole business with the Spanish scene might be one big red herring meant to throw us off the scent. Could Spades have had an arch nemesis in the NA scene? A careful, calculating person who, for months, has been setting up a trail of false evidence to enact vengeance on Spandes and then misdirect the blame onto the Spaniards? Spanish poster Toxi78 mentions that Drolets uploaded an incorrect photo of Spanish player IeZaeL, which seems strange for someone interested in that particular scene. An honest mistake from an genuine Spanish SC2 fan, or a slipup from our vigilante mastermind? While the replays were evidently from LucifroN's computer, the poster claims to have asked for them, a detail that seems suspiciously vague. Who, if not a friend or member of the Spanish scene could simply ask Lucifron for the replays and actually receive them? A fellow progamer with a grudge against Spades? Why would such a person use a pseudonym? Indeed, the thread was closed initially and only reopened after a few pro gamers came forward to voice their opinions on the matter.
The most intriguing part of all this for me has been the rapidity at which it happened. The showmatch began on Sunday at 21:00 CET and ran for (using the length of the relevant TwitchTV videos as a guide) roughly 2 and a half hours. The OP in question was posted on Monday at 21:22 CET. That leaves less than a day for whoever our mystery poster is to realize the hacking, collect the replays, analyze them, write his findings, and post. While certainly possible, it seems very unlikely. No one else seemed to believe Spades was hacking. How many people in the Spanish, or European scene as a whole, even knew much about Spades? How likely is it for this random person to even exist, much less be observant enough and so sure of himself to post such accusations?
Note: this was written for purposes of my personal entertainment. Give my assertions and conclusions no more credence than you would a show about aliens on the History Channel.
As I said in the thread, he wrote the title with a "?" at the start and end of the question, which is how an interrogative sentence is written in spanish. It's not a big mystery that he is spanish, probably someone on Lucifron's team that got to watch the games and though something was fishy, then made the thread.
Nothing really new, I'm not a native speaker either and my English is far from being perfect, yet it was quite obvious that drolets was not a native speaker.
I don't even know how the conclusion 1 can make sense.
I'll still give you a 5/5 because some of your previous blogs deserved more than 5/5 for the entertainment value.
Finally another Gheed-Blog... I was excited at first, vigorously reading through it, but quickly realized it is missing the usual "fun" part of your blog. Son, I am disappoint.
At least your methodology is a little more ethical, but for some reason I feel that starting a witch hunt in addition to another witch hunt is questionable. Amusing nonetheless.
There is a chance he's also replying in the thread on his own account. Like a pyromaniac watching his own fire from the crowd. Since you seem to have much time on your hand you could search for other posts in the thread with words like "medevak" etc and filter the quoted OP parts .
Have you attempted to match these typing patterns to any existing posters on TL, most notably people whose image would be significantly tarnished if the accusations turned out to be false? Because I doubt a smurf would be needed by a person such as myself who would have nothing to lose by posting it on my main account anyway.
On June 05 2012 21:24 Zandar wrote: There is a chance he's also replying in the thread on his own account. Like a pyromaniac watching his own fire from the crowd.
One of the more fantastical hypotheses is that Spades himself posted the thread, the idea being that his SC2 career is at a dead end and he needs some attention to bolster his popularity or go out with a bang before his career ends. I don't believe it, but it makes for a good story.
So many words, so little actual content. He ran a google search on drolet and pointed out that he doesn't speak English as the first language. Tremendous piece of work.
I'm pretty sure he got the replays from Lucifron, though I would like someone more knowledgeable about the SC2Replay format to verify this.
As far as I can tell, each person listed in the replay has a boolean "recorder" value, which indicates from whom the replay originates. SC2Gears doesn't actually provide this value (though it lists the recorder's time-zone), but it's readily extractable from the replay file.
Here's a python script using sc2reader to show who was in the game, and whether they were the recorder of the replay:
import sys, pprint
from sc2reader import load_replay
def main(): replay = load_replay(sys.argv[1])
for p in replay.person: print(replay.person[p].name + " " + str(replay.person[p].recorder))
main()
This prints the following for the Antiga shipyard game:
Ooh, interesting. This would mean that either Lucifron gave the replays to this drolets character, or he himself is drolets. I had not really given the idea that Luci might be the poster much thought because personally, I never really suspect someone of maphacking after I beat them. Of course, a pro gamer would be more tuned in to these kinds of things.
I'll add your post to the OP if no one comes in and completely debunks it.
All right Gheed, I don't like that whole Bronze thing, but I'm with you on this:
Something interesting is that, if you google "medevaks" the most frequent hits you get are in Spanish. While I believe the Spanish client lists "Medevac" it seems to be a common mistake, occuring on more than one forum post found via google, to be listed "Medevak"
• Apparently, he is maphacking on Starcraft II too or that is the sensation I had ("on Starcraft II" instead of "in Starcraft II") • I understand there can be hackers on low levels ("on low levels" instead of "at low levels" or "in low levels") • This is what I found on the replays ("on the replays" instead of "in the replays") • however, he leaves all his hellions on his natural ("on his natural" instead of "at his natural" or "in his natural") • Despite having his army on LucifroN's natural (same as above) • again, he unsieges all his tanks on the natural (same as above) • JUST in the moment where the medevaks appear on the minimap ("in the moment where" instead of "at the moment when")
His confusion here of on and in would also be indicative of a Spanish speaker. Spanish doesn't differentiate between "on" and "in" to my knowledge. Other romance lanaguages such as French do, (sur = on, dans = in).
I'll continue to look at the post for more information: but for me, this points to someone speaking a Romance language by default, almost certainly Spanish, and having learned, as you said, somewhere in north America.
It's your blog and you can do whatever you want, but I don't get why you have to post something like this. The idea of mob justice isn't suitable, but still you take your time to make a quite pointless post about a) an issue you don't like b) an issue you have already given your opinion of c) an issue that is already being discussed in other threads such as http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342350 and keep fueling the supposed drama that you hate.
Allow me to nitpick some or your sentences that imo are the most important of your thread, despite the fact that you tell us right after that your premise isn't part of your blog's purpose (but you write them anyways) and the fact that whatever you write next it's just a long way to tell us that that account is probably from a spanish person.
Or at least these two sentences are what caught my attention.
"I find myself not caring much one way or the other as to whether the man is or isn't a maphacker." But maphacking is a pretty serious issue that must be solved for the sake of the competition. It has nothing to do with your hated esports battlecry, it's about wheter a player or not should bother playing online for money because if hacking keeps going unnoticed I don't see the purpose to train except for live events. And we already had cases that you should know where a player has forfeited to play an important match just because it was online.
"I fear more for those accused in the future who may be innocent, as it seems increasingly likely that Spades isn't" I don't see why people should accuse someone without any reason. Ok we live in a bad world full of people who don't care if behind the monitor there are other real humans, but you don't accuse someone without anything to back it up... otherwise no one is going to believe you. Spades got caught, a guy made a list of valid reasons to suspect him and people are giving their opinions. The shitstorm that is happening it's because these claims seem to be very solid, otherwise there wouldn't be so much drama.
I can't really see why you should already start to assume that in the future people will accuse players out of nowhere, without solid claims and immediately be believed. Even when Rekrul posted about coach Lee and so on there were people who reasonably doubted his opinion... and it's Rekrul we are talking about. His claims were dismissed, he apologized, the thread was cancelled and Coach Lee's house didn't went on fire due to some TL zealous kamikaze. I don't see why it should be different with other guys without any proof, instead.
Sometimes the community focuses too much on meaningless things such as twitter posts out of rage, typing "gg" or not, if a player should spend his own free time in a way or another, stupid youtube videos and so on. Or hating casters or people they don't even know personally.
This time it's not the case: maphacking and cheating in general is THE bane for the starcraft scene and people should address to the problem everytime something is suspicious. It's not a meaningless thing, at all. Let's just hope that Blizzard will do something, until then people should keep their eyes open.
On June 05 2012 22:26 Azera wrote: Gheed, what about his 2 bronze coins? That means he's a contributer to Liquipedia right?
He appears to have attempted to create an article about a player (perhaps a local Spanish player) but his article was of poor quality and removed. I could not find any record of the article he created. I'll PM the person who reverted his edit to see if he remembers what he tried to make.
He has edited a number of Spain related articles. So I'm guessing this guy is a friend of Lucifron or otherwise somehow close enough to him to request replays from him.
-Russians don't have an equivalent to "the". Note how rarely he uses that word in lots of spots where even a German, French or Spaniard would use it. -Russians have a sentence structure that is very similar to his "wrong" sentences.[1] -His overuse of "on" is something that's not easy to pronounce for eastern europeans, "in" is a sound they try to avoid like the plague because it makes their voice sound squeeky. -The "ck" instead of "c" in e.g. "Cloaked" and especially NOT adding the "-ed" is also typical. Russians pronounce their "k-sound" in the back of their throat means they can't add the "-ed" without spitting all over the place. (their "k" is a uvular sound) - again he's writing as he speaks. -"Comming" instead of "Coming" indicates that he pronounces the "o" very short. -"in the elevation" is a choice of words you would use e.g. in Polish. Those languages don't have words like e.g. -"medevaks" is one of the main reasons why I'm assuming he's likely to be Russian and e.g. not Polish. As you can read here, the only European localized version which comes close is... russian! http://contenuti.battlecraft.it/media/sc2_terran_unit.jpg
[1]-Look how he watches LucifroN's army. That sentence puts the verb first then afterwards what it is referring to, again it's also missing any kind of Auxiliaries. In German the verb would be at the end of the sentence and Frenchies just LOVE their auxilaries. (Not 100% sure how it's in Spanish, but it should be similar there.)
Something you didn't notice:
5 seconds after that LucifroN lift(s) half of his units into 2 medevaks, then Spades select(s) all his vikings and moves forward to try to kill the unseen medevaks.
He only notices the missing "s" after vocals and forgets it after consonants. Also he is adding infinitive after infinitive. Missing the "s" in simple present constructions is something I doubt a German or Spaniard would do. Ever. For Russians it's such a weird thing that they only remember when they actually see it missing.
(otherways it would've been a suicide)
He writes it in the way he speaks it and uses the "a" because he doesn't want to look like a stupid russian who doesn't use determiners.
Whoever this is is highly likely to be from Eastern Europe (I'm still guessing Russian specifically). It is also likely that while he speaks English from time to time he is not used to writing in English a lot - that's where all the "spoken" mistakes come from.
Props for this idea and most of the stuff go to my half polish girlfriend. ♥
Given the wikipedia contributions combined with some of the other stuff he seems likely to be Spanish. Somehow I doubt lucifron would be making the wikipedia entries himself, so probably a friend of lucifron and member of the spanish sc2 community. It seems likely then that the "drolets" you found on the Spanish website is him then. I'll have to take a look through there to look for any other clues. Note that when I did a google search for the name I found a SC2 account with the name "Drolet" but didn't note whether it wax EU or NA.
Some more facts, further solidifying the Spanish root of the speaker:
This line.
His camera NEVER watches a place he hasn't got vision of, neither for scouting, neither for sending units, neither because of a missclick
Neither is a word not often used for a native English speaker, but commonly used in other languages to denote a negative. Reading that in English is somewhat awkward (though perhaps correct) because it's just not used in that sense. Romance languages (French and Spanish specifically, maybe others) would add a "ni" to a list such as this, denoting "neither"
Also search "cloak" on the Spanish version of the site.
Shows that "cloack" returns almost double the hits of "cloak" While on the English website, over 13,000 instances of cloak occur and only 200 or so cloack. Analysis of the French site indicates no favor over one or the other, both appear equally regularly.
yo gheed, i need some brain power to invent a funny lookup index for my masters thesis, you seem to have some degree of brain power at your disposal, so drop me a note if you are bored still/again haha. :p
good analysis, as to medevak relating to german: to come is called "kommen" in german, so the double m would fit into that as well, and ck is widely used in german (in fact pretty much don't have a single word with just a c without adjacent k). But the whole spain relation still has a more correct feel to it. Good luck on your further search ^^
Assuming the spanish theory is correct (I think those Liquipedia entries are too weird to verify it) it is incredibly likely that he's personally related to LucifroN. The pages he edited (or tried to edit) are these:
Considering he added pictures for MikOel and Vortix it is likely that he has some kind of relation to those.
Edit: The reason why I feel those liquipedia entries are a false lead is because they don't make sense. Guy registers on TL just to edit Liquipedia, doesn't post, gets replays from a brosef and SUDDENLY decides to make a huge thread about it? Doesn't sound legit to me.
I stick with mah russian theory. Him making this thread so short after the Liquipedia stuff and registration is either a HUGE coincidence or a setup, leading us to believe that someone related to LucifroN is the culprit.
(Or he was just incredibly dumb. "If I don't post no one will find out who I was/am but I can edit Liquipedia in the mean time to show everyone I'm related to Lucifron hurpadurpa!!!1")
^note that the 2 replays drolets uploaded to the Spanish website feature lolvsxd, who joined Karont3 on the same day that lucifron and his brothers did. Would be helpful for someone to parse those replays to confirm that they came from lolvsxd.
I dont know why you are favoring your Russian theory when it's based on language alone and we have some hard evidence for the Spanish theory which you are brushing off as planted.
Perhaps it is karont3's manager Ryo (who is also lucifrons brother). That would seem to explain wikipedia entries and having pictures of team members taken for the purpose of profile pictures.
Nah seems like he's just an active folk in the spanish community and was close enough to Lucifron to get the replays. Lucifron's brother is a "top" player and I don't think he'd waste so much time making a smurf and editing articles etc.
Dno, the weird thing to me is the timeline. Either they assumed that Spades is going to hack and wanted to expose him, they wanted the ability to discredit him in case he wins (was that showmatch important for Lucifron in any kind of way?) or...
Not sure, it just sounds fishy no matter how you turn it. Assuming the culprit is a friend of Lucifron he must assume that revealing that relationship would discredit him accusing Spades of hacking (only possible reason to not talk about it in the OP). However, if he planned to not be seen as someone related to Lucifron the Liquipedia stuff makes no sense.
Wait. Were those replays downloadable anywhere? Welp. Even then. Random spanish zealous fan who registered on TL to edit Liquipedia entries of his favorite players downloads replays, checks for suspicious play and pretty much instantly posts about it on TL? Imo there has to be some relation to Lucifron. =P
On June 05 2012 23:11 r.Evo wrote: Dno, the weird thing to me is the timeline. Either they assumed that Spades is going to hack and wanted to expose him, they wanted the ability to discredit him in case he wins (was that showmatch important for Lucifron in any kind of way?) or...
Not sure, it just sounds fishy no matter how you turn it. Assuming the culprit is a friend of Lucifron he must assume that revealing that relationship would discredit him accusing Spades of hacking (only possible reason to not talk about it in the OP). However, if he planned to not be seen as someone related to Lucifron the Liquipedia stuff makes no sense.
Wait. Were those replays downloadable anywhere? Welp. Even then. Random zealous fan downloads replays, checks for suspicious play and pretty much instantly posts about it on TL? Imo there has to be some relation to Lucifron. =P
No, the replays were not released.
Your point is also the one that confuses me the most. It seems like it would have to be one crazy coincidence that he registers for TL just days after a showmatch is announced and then posts his hacking allegations the next day after its played.
On June 05 2012 23:11 r.Evo wrote: Dno, the weird thing to me is the timeline. Either they assumed that Spades is going to hack and wanted to expose him, they wanted the ability to discredit him in case he wins (was that showmatch important for Lucifron in any kind of way?) or...
Not sure, it just sounds fishy no matter how you turn it. Assuming the culprit is a friend of Lucifron he must assume that revealing that relationship would discredit him accusing Spades of hacking (only possible reason to not talk about it in the OP). However, if he planned to not be seen as someone related to Lucifron the Liquipedia stuff makes no sense.
Wait. Were those replays downloadable anywhere? Welp. Even then. Random zealous fan downloads replays, checks for suspicious play and pretty much instantly posts about it on TL? Imo there has to be some relation to Lucifron. =P
No, the replays were not released.
Your point is also the one that confuses me the most. It seems like it would have to be one crazy coincidence that he registers for TL just days after a showmatch is announced and then posts his hacking allegations the next day after its played.
Well maybe he thought that was a good timing opportunity to prove the accusations.
On June 05 2012 23:11 r.Evo wrote: Dno, the weird thing to me is the timeline. Either they assumed that Spades is going to hack and wanted to expose him, they wanted the ability to discredit him in case he wins (was that showmatch important for Lucifron in any kind of way?) or...
Not sure, it just sounds fishy no matter how you turn it. Assuming the culprit is a friend of Lucifron he must assume that revealing that relationship would discredit him accusing Spades of hacking (only possible reason to not talk about it in the OP). However, if he planned to not be seen as someone related to Lucifron the Liquipedia stuff makes no sense.
Wait. Were those replays downloadable anywhere? Welp. Even then. Random zealous fan downloads replays, checks for suspicious play and pretty much instantly posts about it on TL? Imo there has to be some relation to Lucifron. =P
No, the replays were not released.
Your point is also the one that confuses me the most. It seems like it would have to be one crazy coincidence that he registers for TL just days after a showmatch is announced and then posts his hacking allegations the next day after its played.
Well maybe he thought that was a good timing opportunity to prove the accusations.
It certainly got the job done.
The question is if he had questions about Spades before this event, or if he is really just some hack detecting phenom.
On June 05 2012 23:11 r.Evo wrote: Dno, the weird thing to me is the timeline. Either they assumed that Spades is going to hack and wanted to expose him, they wanted the ability to discredit him in case he wins (was that showmatch important for Lucifron in any kind of way?) or...
Not sure, it just sounds fishy no matter how you turn it. Assuming the culprit is a friend of Lucifron he must assume that revealing that relationship would discredit him accusing Spades of hacking (only possible reason to not talk about it in the OP). However, if he planned to not be seen as someone related to Lucifron the Liquipedia stuff makes no sense.
Wait. Were those replays downloadable anywhere? Welp. Even then. Random zealous fan downloads replays, checks for suspicious play and pretty much instantly posts about it on TL? Imo there has to be some relation to Lucifron. =P
No, the replays were not released.
Your point is also the one that confuses me the most. It seems like it would have to be one crazy coincidence that he registers for TL just days after a showmatch is announced and then posts his hacking allegations the next day after its played.
Well maybe he thought that was a good timing opportunity to prove the accusations.
It certainly got the job done.
The question is if he had questions about Spades before this event, or if he is really just some hack detecting phenom.
Yeah that's what I meant. Maybe he assumed Spades was hacking, couldn't prove it, but thought he could with the replays from the showmatch. Hence, he registers an account before the showmatch, gets the replay, then posts.
This bears no relation to the accusations, is it not better that it comes from an anonymous source? Its not as if he made anything up and just threw it out there, he did his research clearly enough, and the majority of the pro players are convinced too. This is a witch hunt, not the accusation of spades hacking. Gheed you are directly contradicting what you complain about in the OP. Take a step back and look at what you are doing. You're trying to find out who this guy is who has made perfectly legitimate claims, when in all likelihood the claims are true and he would just rather not be associated with them, due to the obvious negativity associated.
On June 05 2012 23:11 r.Evo wrote: Dno, the weird thing to me is the timeline. Either they assumed that Spades is going to hack and wanted to expose him, they wanted the ability to discredit him in case he wins (was that showmatch important for Lucifron in any kind of way?) or...
Not sure, it just sounds fishy no matter how you turn it. Assuming the culprit is a friend of Lucifron he must assume that revealing that relationship would discredit him accusing Spades of hacking (only possible reason to not talk about it in the OP). However, if he planned to not be seen as someone related to Lucifron the Liquipedia stuff makes no sense.
Wait. Were those replays downloadable anywhere? Welp. Even then. Random zealous fan downloads replays, checks for suspicious play and pretty much instantly posts about it on TL? Imo there has to be some relation to Lucifron. =P
No, the replays were not released.
Your point is also the one that confuses me the most. It seems like it would have to be one crazy coincidence that he registers for TL just days after a showmatch is announced and then posts his hacking allegations the next day after its played.
Well maybe he thought that was a good timing opportunity to prove the accusations.
It certainly got the job done.
The question is if he had questions about Spades before this event, or if he is really just some hack detecting phenom.
Yeah that's what I meant. Maybe he assumed Spades was hacking, couldn't prove it, but thought he could with the replays from the showmatch. Hence, he registers an account before the showmatch, gets the replay, then posts.
That however implies that Spades is going to hack in this event specifically and him knowing about that fact or at least assuming it. It also implies that he has this assumption and some kind of "YOURE NOT DOING THAT TO MY FAVORITE PLAYER YOU SHITHEAD"-attitude as motivation. IF he had such a clear knowledge of Spades going to hack he most likely has more prove than the replays vs Lucifron which would be solid evidence on their own.
Then... you read his post. And it reads not like the post of someone who is FOR Lucifron but as a post by someone who is AGAINST Spades. I doubt a fanboy would miss this opportunity to rage about how frivolous it is to do this during a showmatch etc. bla.
Apparently, he is maphacking on Starcraft II too or that is the sensation I had while watching his showmatch versus LucifroN last night... after asking for the replays and analyzing them there's no doubt.
That's all, I think it is more than obvious that he is hacking, specially considering he was already caught hacking on broodwar... whatever, you guys judge
To me that's someone who simply wants to discredit Spades, not someone who wants to push LucifroNs publicity in any kind of way.
I can bring some light in 2 points if you are interested, since im spanish.
1) "Medevak" Thats the spanish name of the unit in the game. Simple as that.
2) "Analyze" instead of "analyse". In spanish the verb is "analizar", thats why we always type "analyze" when we are typing english, looks more familiar for us.
On June 05 2012 23:33 TheConquereer wrote: I can bring some light in 2 points if you are interested, since im spanish.
1) "Medevak" Thats the spanish name of the unit in the game. Simple as that.
2) "Analyze" instead of "analyse". In spanish the verb is "analizar", thats why we always type "analyze" when we are typing english, looks more familiar for us.
Please dont analyZe my english :D
How russian do you guys sound when speaking english? =D
On June 05 2012 23:33 TheConquereer wrote: I can bring some light in 2 points if you are interested, since im spanish.
1) "Medevak" Thats the spanish name of the unit in the game. Simple as that.
2) "Analyze" instead of "analyse". In spanish the verb is "analizar", thats why we always type "analyze" when we are typing english, looks more familiar for us.
Please dont analyZe my english :D
How russian do you guys sound when speaking english? =D
Yeah.. well, we'll just ask luci who he sent the replays. Keep it up though, I might have some mousepads signed by top EU players somewhere for whomever gets it right, I have to check what state they're in.
On June 05 2012 23:33 TheConquereer wrote: I can bring some light in 2 points if you are interested, since im spanish.
1) "Medevak" Thats the spanish name of the unit in the game. Simple as that.
2) "Analyze" instead of "analyse". In spanish the verb is "analizar", thats why we always type "analyze" when we are typing english, looks more familiar for us.
Please dont analyZe my english :D
How russian do you guys sound when speaking english? =D
I'd like to note that his IP actually does match other TL accounts. NrGMonk is still an inexperienced banling and didn't really use the full IP matching functionality we have.
The mods have a decent idea of who it is, and are discussing whether or not to reveal this information. It's likely we'll make a statement on the entire situation (not just the drama itself, but also the way it was handled) in the coming days.
On June 06 2012 00:01 RaGe wrote: I'd like to note that his IP actually does match other TL accounts. NrGMonk is still an inexperienced banling and didn't really use the full IP matching functionality we have.
The mods have a decent idea of who it is, and are discussing whether or not to reveal this information. It's likely we'll make a statement on the entire situation (not just the drama itself, but also the way it was handled) in the coming days.
Sigh. Now trying to figure out the spanish guy who was forced to move to Russia because he was almost lynched for the last time he outed someone as a hacker is slightly more boring than before. =/
On June 06 2012 00:11 r.Evo wrote: Sigh. Now trying to figure out the spanish guy who was forced to move to Russia because he was almost lynched for the last time he outed someone as a hacker is slightly more boring than before. =/
And I don't have a chance to win a signed mousepad from martijn
On June 06 2012 00:11 r.Evo wrote: Sigh. Now trying to figure out the spanish guy who was forced to move to Russia because he was almost lynched for the last time he outed someone as a hacker is slightly more boring than before. =/
And I don't have a chance to win a signed mousepad from martijn
It's not like any of us actually guessed someone specifically. Okay, fuck this:
On June 06 2012 00:01 RaGe wrote: I'd like to note that his IP actually does match other TL accounts. NrGMonk is still an inexperienced banling and didn't really use the full IP matching functionality we have.
The mods have a decent idea of who it is, and are discussing whether or not to reveal this information. It's likely we'll make a statement on the entire situation (not just the drama itself, but also the way it was handled) in the coming days.
Well this give me hope at least. The way the whole drama unfolded was suboptimal. Hopefully in the future we can establish some kind of protocol for similar kind of incident. Even though I personally find some parts of Spades play suspicious, he shouldnt have to go through this kind of crap when the truth is still being sorted out (there is plenty of time to fuck someone over later). I just hope the next guy that get "call out" doesnt have to go through this shit on TL.
On June 06 2012 00:26 Bippzy wrote: I am severely entertained. I love what you can do with the internef. I want the identity as well, hurry up TL
I want is generally not a good way to make decisions...
I hope the mods take a nice long time to discuss the possible unveiling of the poster. As they probably know, there are a number of possible consequences:
a) If the allegations are deemed false, his reputation is marred just because he reported a pro. b) Concerned parties can enact retribution in various unpleasant ways. c) If either of the previous is the case, we can forget about anyone posting anonymous tips again, which also means more maphackers unreported. d) If the previous points can be disregarded, there's still the question that they alone can decide regarding the particular details of the relationship between him and Spades. e) Lastly, we damage the message that objective arguments trump authority of the speaker.
On June 06 2012 00:26 Bippzy wrote: I am severely entertained. I love what you can do with the internef. I want the identity as well, hurry up TL
I want is generally not a good way to make decisions...
I hope the mods take a nice long time to discuss the possible unveiling of the poster. As they probably know, there are a number of possible consequences:
a) If the allegations are deemed false, his reputation is marred just because he reported a pro. b) Concerned parties can enact retribution in various unpleasant ways. c) If either of the previous is the case, we can forget about anyone posting anonymous tips again, which also means more maphackers unreported. d) If the previous points can be disregarded, there's still the question that they alone can decide regarding the particular details of the relationship between him and Spades. e) Lastly, we damage the message that objective arguments trump authority of the speaker.
If the allegations are false, and Spades get fired, said gentleman/lady is liable for loss of earnings in most legal systems, afaik. Slander is slander everywhere.
I understand that they may have been meant in b), but just clarifying
I like "the Spaniard did it" theory. Spaniards have been romanticized too long! (Gladiator reference)
On June 06 2012 00:26 Bippzy wrote: I am severely entertained. I love what you can do with the internef. I want the identity as well, hurry up TL
I want is generally not a good way to make decisions...
I hope the mods take a nice long time to discuss the possible unveiling of the poster. As they probably know, there are a number of possible consequences:
a) If the allegations are deemed false, his reputation is marred just because he reported a pro. b) Concerned parties can enact retribution in various unpleasant ways. c) If either of the previous is the case, we can forget about anyone posting anonymous tips again, which also means more maphackers unreported. d) If the previous points can be disregarded, there's still the question that they alone can decide regarding the particular details of the relationship between him and Spades. e) Lastly, we damage the message that objective arguments trump authority of the speaker.
If the allegations are false, and Spades get fired, said gentleman/lady is liable for loss of earnings in most legal systems, afaik. Slander is slander everywhere.
I understand that they may have been meant in b), but just clarifying
I like "the Spaniard did it" theory. Spaniards have been romanticized too long! (Gladiator reference)
Yeah, slander litigation is one possible way of it becoming nasty. Now, there are several ways that can be done too. If the name is public, you can just sue someone and as the process can be delayed for years and be horribly costly, it's a good way to force a non-wealthy member of society into nasty agreements.
If, on the other hand, TL does not reveal the name, then such litigation will still proceed, but with the difference that a court of law will first investigate claims and then (if the first step went ok) ask TL to provide what evidence they have as to the perpetrators identity. So, TL revealing the name is not a prerequisite to slander litigation.
On June 05 2012 22:58 Doodsmack wrote: ^note that the 2 replays drolets uploaded to the Spanish website feature lolvsxd, who joined Karont3 on the same day that lucifron and his brothers did. Would be helpful for someone to parse those replays to confirm that they came from lolvsxd.
I have updated my thread in Website Feedback arguing for why the mods should reveal the OP's identity, and I would encourage others to post their thoughts for the mods' consideration.
Gheed your blogs are like Harvard law school material, and i am not even shitting you with this either i don't know Harvard for shit or you really are the einstein of starcraft and e-sports logic...
On June 06 2012 01:11 Doodsmack wrote: I have updated my thread in Website Feedback arguing for why the mods should reveal the OP's identity, and I would encourage others to post their thoughts for the mods' consideration.
On June 06 2012 01:11 Doodsmack wrote: I have updated my thread in Website Feedback arguing for why the mods should reveal the OP's identity, and I would encourage others to post their thoughts for the mods' consideration.
Instead of thanking him for finding a 99% possible hacker ( the another 1% is that spades client had bugs) people does this... If he doesn't want to reveal his identity I think is legit.
On June 05 2012 19:07 Gheed wrote: Though I'm sure this is a mistake native English speakers make as well (especially given that this is the Internet, and there are thus many instances of the similarly spelled "cumming")
So good lmao. Getting popcorn and following this blog, way more interesting than the thread in question.
On June 05 2012 19:07 Gheed wrote: Though I'm sure this is a mistake native English speakers make as well (especially given that this is the Internet, and there are thus many instances of the similarly spelled "cumming")
So good lmao. Getting popcorn and following this blog, way more interesting than the thread in question.
I've actually seen a female friend of mine shorthand "come" as "cum". Not much shorter though.
On June 06 2012 01:32 Snuggles wrote: Gheed I think you're on your way to becoming a quality poster. This was a nice fun read thanks.
Yes, agree, though we probably need AT LEAST 50 to 100 more posts to be sure that this is in fact standard posting for him and that he isn't just getting lucky these few times. IMO: not sure yet.
On June 06 2012 01:39 Duka08 wrote: God I love me some Gheed blogs
On June 05 2012 19:07 Gheed wrote: Though I'm sure this is a mistake native English speakers make as well (especially given that this is the Internet, and there are thus many instances of the similarly spelled "cumming")
So good lmao. Getting popcorn and following this blog, way more interesting than the thread in question.
I've actually seen a female friend of mine shorthand "come" as "cum". Not much shorter though.
I'm wondering if you didn't miss some context there, friend.
P.S. What are you guys saying with all this "Gheed is BECOMING a good poster", he's always been awesome ^^
On June 06 2012 01:39 Duka08 wrote: God I love me some Gheed blogs
On June 05 2012 19:07 Gheed wrote: Though I'm sure this is a mistake native English speakers make as well (especially given that this is the Internet, and there are thus many instances of the similarly spelled "cumming")
So good lmao. Getting popcorn and following this blog, way more interesting than the thread in question.
I've actually seen a female friend of mine shorthand "come" as "cum". Not much shorter though.
I'm wondering if you didn't miss some context there, friend.
P.S. What are you guys saying with all this "Gheed is BECOMING a good poster", he's always been awesome ^^
Well, speaking for myself ofc, I find it highly suspicious that he came out of nowhere and starting tearing up these blogs. Should be looked into if you ask me!
On June 06 2012 01:39 Duka08 wrote: God I love me some Gheed blogs
On June 05 2012 19:07 Gheed wrote: Though I'm sure this is a mistake native English speakers make as well (especially given that this is the Internet, and there are thus many instances of the similarly spelled "cumming")
So good lmao. Getting popcorn and following this blog, way more interesting than the thread in question.
I've actually seen a female friend of mine shorthand "come" as "cum". Not much shorter though.
I'm wondering if you didn't miss some context there, friend.
P.S. What are you guys saying with all this "Gheed is BECOMING a good poster", he's always been awesome ^^
Well, speaking for myself ofc, I find it highly suspicious that he came out of nowhere and starting tearing up these blogs. Should be looked into if you ask me!
Now that you mention it... What kind of a name is Gheed anyway. It sounds like Greed, like someone planning a intergalactic invasion!
On June 06 2012 01:39 Duka08 wrote: God I love me some Gheed blogs
On June 05 2012 19:07 Gheed wrote: Though I'm sure this is a mistake native English speakers make as well (especially given that this is the Internet, and there are thus many instances of the similarly spelled "cumming")
So good lmao. Getting popcorn and following this blog, way more interesting than the thread in question.
I've actually seen a female friend of mine shorthand "come" as "cum". Not much shorter though.
I'm wondering if you didn't miss some context there, friend.
P.S. What are you guys saying with all this "Gheed is BECOMING a good poster", he's always been awesome ^^
Well, speaking for myself ofc, I find it highly suspicious that he came out of nowhere and starting tearing up these blogs. Should be looked into if you ask me!
Now that you mention it... What kind of a name is Gheed anyway. It sounds like Greed, like someone planning a intergalactic invasion!
I think he's one of those guys who makes their money by hoping they gamble all their money away on stupidly low chances.
On June 06 2012 01:39 Duka08 wrote: God I love me some Gheed blogs
On June 05 2012 19:07 Gheed wrote: Though I'm sure this is a mistake native English speakers make as well (especially given that this is the Internet, and there are thus many instances of the similarly spelled "cumming")
So good lmao. Getting popcorn and following this blog, way more interesting than the thread in question.
I've actually seen a female friend of mine shorthand "come" as "cum". Not much shorter though.
I'm wondering if you didn't miss some context there, friend.
P.S. What are you guys saying with all this "Gheed is BECOMING a good poster", he's always been awesome ^^
Well, speaking for myself ofc, I find it highly suspicious that he came out of nowhere and starting tearing up these blogs. Should be looked into if you ask me!
On June 06 2012 01:11 Doodsmack wrote: I have updated my thread in Website Feedback arguing for why the mods should reveal the OP's identity, and I would encourage others to post their thoughts for the mods' consideration.
On June 06 2012 01:39 Duka08 wrote: God I love me some Gheed blogs
On June 05 2012 19:07 Gheed wrote: Though I'm sure this is a mistake native English speakers make as well (especially given that this is the Internet, and there are thus many instances of the similarly spelled "cumming")
So good lmao. Getting popcorn and following this blog, way more interesting than the thread in question.
I've actually seen a female friend of mine shorthand "come" as "cum". Not much shorter though.
I'm wondering if you didn't miss some context there, friend.
P.S. What are you guys saying with all this "Gheed is BECOMING a good poster", he's always been awesome ^^
Well, speaking for myself ofc, I find it highly suspicious that he came out of nowhere and starting tearing up these blogs. Should be looked into if you ask me!
Now that you mention it... What kind of a name is Gheed anyway. It sounds like Greed, like someone planning a intergalactic invasion!
I think he's one of those guys who makes their money by hoping they gamble all their money away on stupidly low chances.
It's the name of a merchant in Diablo 2. You could go to him to "gamble" for an item, something like how crafting works in D3, except in a much inferior form.
I usually hate Gheeds blogs, but when i read through the entirety of that shithole of a thread, Gheeds points were some I agreed with the most.
Of relavnce, I believe this psedudo suspect also posted this on reddit? I remember reading something about this in the thread, perhaps you were even the one qho posted this, and he basically went off on people like a child using slurs and such? Just makes in interesting if the source is reveleaed, and it turns out to be someone who probably wouldn't want that kind of attention. Could be a bit of a backfire, which I wouldn't mind seeing since this person created a stupid witch hunt to begin with.
On June 06 2012 01:39 Duka08 wrote: God I love me some Gheed blogs
On June 05 2012 19:07 Gheed wrote: Though I'm sure this is a mistake native English speakers make as well (especially given that this is the Internet, and there are thus many instances of the similarly spelled "cumming")
So good lmao. Getting popcorn and following this blog, way more interesting than the thread in question.
I've actually seen a female friend of mine shorthand "come" as "cum". Not much shorter though.
I'm wondering if you didn't miss some context there, friend.
P.S. What are you guys saying with all this "Gheed is BECOMING a good poster", he's always been awesome ^^
Well, speaking for myself ofc, I find it highly suspicious that he came out of nowhere and starting tearing up these blogs. Should be looked into if you ask me!
Sounds to me like an avid fan of Lucifron and spanish Starcraft, who got upset that Spades took 3 games. Well done specially the guy who found which player is the source of the replays.
hmm..fascinating. I am happily surprised at Gheed's knowledge of etymology. But this'll probably blow over and drolets will continue to be a mystery man
One thing which surprises me is how many people are asking for his identity (even if this might be a light-hearted thread). Why does identity matter when discussing an issue which doesn't require the OP's identity? If anything identity clouds the judgement of people.
If the OP's evidence/idea was stupid it would have been disregarded. If the OP's evidence/idea has a strong backbone, it gets the attention it deserves (which is happening right now). The only thing, the identity of this person "drolets" would do is to make people make irrational arguements which have nothing to do with the actual issue. Ex: "oh "x" person posted this to discredit him because he thought he would win more convincingly" , or " Oh "y" person only posted this because spades kept beating him in playhem".
On June 06 2012 05:34 sekritzzz wrote: One thing which surprises me is how many people are asking for his identity (even if this might be a light-hearted thread). Why does identity matter when discussing an issue which doesn't require the OP's identity? If anything identity clouds the judgement of people.
If the OP's evidence/idea was stupid it would have been disregarded. If the OP's evidence/idea has a strong backbone, it gets the attention it deserves (which is happening right now). The only thing, the identity of this person "drolets" would do is to make people make irrational arguements which have nothing to do with the actual issue. Ex: "oh "x" person posted this to discredit him because he thought he would win more convincingly" , or " Oh "y" person only posted this because spades kept beating him in playhem".
Well, you have to look at if someone wanted to slander Spades for some reason by exaggerating events. That could play a crucial part in determining whether or not the claims have some merit or if they're just to get back at Spades.
On June 06 2012 05:34 sekritzzz wrote: One thing which surprises me is how many people are asking for his identity (even if this might be a light-hearted thread). Why does identity matter when discussing an issue which doesn't require the OP's identity? If anything identity clouds the judgement of people.
If the OP's evidence/idea was stupid it would have been disregarded. If the OP's evidence/idea has a strong backbone, it gets the attention it deserves (which is happening right now). The only thing, the identity of this person "drolets" would do is to make people make irrational arguements which have nothing to do with the actual issue. Ex: "oh "x" person posted this to discredit him because he thought he would win more convincingly" , or " Oh "y" person only posted this because spades kept beating him in playhem".
The question of whether identity should be revealed has implications for TL policy with respect future maphack allegations. I.e. does anonymity allow for exploitation of the mob mentality by means if exaggerated and embellished "evidence" without fear of accountability?
On June 06 2012 05:34 sekritzzz wrote: One thing which surprises me is how many people are asking for his identity (even if this might be a light-hearted thread). Why does identity matter when discussing an issue which doesn't require the OP's identity? If anything identity clouds the judgement of people.
If the OP's evidence/idea was stupid it would have been disregarded. If the OP's evidence/idea has a strong backbone, it gets the attention it deserves (which is happening right now). The only thing, the identity of this person "drolets" would do is to make people make irrational arguements which have nothing to do with the actual issue. Ex: "oh "x" person posted this to discredit him because he thought he would win more convincingly" , or " Oh "y" person only posted this because spades kept beating him in playhem".
The question of whether identity should be revealed has implications for TL policy with respect future maphack allegations. I.e. does anonymity allow for exploitation of the mob mentality by means if exaggerated and embellished "evidence" without fear of accountability?
On June 06 2012 05:34 sekritzzz wrote: One thing which surprises me is how many people are asking for his identity (even if this might be a light-hearted thread). Why does identity matter when discussing an issue which doesn't require the OP's identity? If anything identity clouds the judgement of people.
If the OP's evidence/idea was stupid it would have been disregarded. If the OP's evidence/idea has a strong backbone, it gets the attention it deserves (which is happening right now). The only thing, the identity of this person "drolets" would do is to make people make irrational arguements which have nothing to do with the actual issue. Ex: "oh "x" person posted this to discredit him because he thought he would win more convincingly" , or " Oh "y" person only posted this because spades kept beating him in playhem".
Well, you have to look at if someone wanted to slander Spades for some reason by exaggerating events. That could play a crucial part in determining whether or not the claims have some merit or if they're just to get back at Spades.
I'd be willing to give anyone 1,000,000,000$, yes one billion, if they can exaggerate/abuse mob mentality enough to kick idra out of his team. He is disliked (and also liked!) by a lot of players but nobody can ever call him a hacker because there literally is zero evidence pointing to that fact nor would anyone believe it. I can definetly see the abuse of anonomity and mob mentality when there is a lack of information such as me accusing Thorzain of something like, " Oh Thorzain robbed me in Sweden", but the OP provided his PoV and gave you the replays to look at for yourself. What would identity add to the discussion other than take attention away from the replays in this situation?
Anyways it is TL's call, and I would have personally used my own name if I was going to accuse someone of something, but anonimity in my opinion needs to be respected in some cases because otherwise things which need fixing would always stay underground due to fear of possible repercussions.
What sekritzzz said. There's a time and place for anonymity. I think this situation was a decent way of showing that.
People don't understand the pressure/danger that's placed on people that blow the whistle in the first place. There's Federal programs for people in that situation - It's called Witness Protection.
Baring my own personal curiosity, there is no reason to reveal the Mystery Poster's identity, other then for people to satiate the longing for that knowledge. It's not like the guy came in, made a baseless accusation, and then peace out. The simple fact that there is replay analyse of it, as well as many other people/players/personalities coming out of the woodwork voicing their opinions, should show how beneficial the anonymous post was.
If the guy never made a new TL account and posted anonymously, how many of use would still allegedly be in the dark? How many pro players/casters/managers would keep their opinion to themselves for fear of being shunned from the community?
In case it hasn't been mentioned (I didn't see any mention in the thread) and following the rigor of your analysis, he always correctly capitalizes the "N" in LucifroN.
I find TL posts to usually be haphazard with regard to the respect of capitalizations in player names. The paranoid me kept thinking, only LucifroN himself would care enough to keep capitalizing the "N" in his name. Even within this thread, we have people capitalizing it once, only to spell it with a lowercase the next time.
This blog has been an incredible breath of fresh air after sifting through the noxious remains of the other thread. I just want to commend you gheed on focusing on at least a facet of the overall case.
I will say, and this is not evidence in the least but is funny to me, that when I first read the accusation thread my first thought was 'Man some fan of lucifron is really butthurt that he almost lost to spades.' Though I feel like since reading through that whole thread my brain has been warped and tainted by the stupidity of both sides.
I feel much safer in here. Perhaps I will try to assist.
Wow. This this Grade A, archetypal TL detective work
I think there's some middle ground. On one hand, this anonymous poster essentially ended Spades career with his post/accusation/arguments and one could argue that he should take responsibility. On the other hand, this anonymous poster should be a protected witness. I tend to lean towards the former, because Spades' fans, however ardent as they may be, are not going to attack this anonymous guy or hurt him in any way. Witness protection exists to protect witnesses from being hunted down by connections of individuals involved in crime, from public outcry, etc.. I think remaining anonymous initially is ok, since it prevents members from assuming any biases etc based on his identity, but I personally think that the anonymous tipper should own up. Just my two cents; I suppose I'm fine the other way as well, just voicing my opinion >.<
I also think that TL should keep his identity secret. We should protect whistleblowers in case anything like this happens in the future, we don't want anyone to hesitate releasing information out of fear of being shunned. It also allows us to be objective and review the evidence based solely on it's own merit, because people can't resort to ad hominem.
If he is going to be forced to get shoved into the spotlight, that's another thing.
If I have a reasonable belief that someone is maphacking, and I can articulate why, and it's something a reasonable person would believe as well...however, I can't reveal this anonymously for fear of being ridiculed/what have you...why would I go about doing it?
As I said in my post above, the simple fact that so many people are coming out now saying "I've actually be suspicious for awhile now..." is indicative to this fact.
On June 06 2012 06:48 relyt wrote: I also think that TL should keep his identity secret. We should protect whistleblowers in case anything like this happens in the future, we don't want anyone to hesitate releasing information out of fear of being shunned. It also allows us to be objective and review the evidence based solely on it's own merit, because people can't resort to ad hominem.
But the mods can pm me the identity because I'm curious
While I agree with you on a purely theoretical level, I can't be comfortable with this approach given the current situation and the absolute closeminded brutality that was shown.
The vast vast VAST majority of comments in that thread were as objective as a picasso and less coherent. Internet (or non-internet) anonymity leads to a lot of terrible things, as has already been shown in many cases across many platforms, and quite frankly the amount of users that access this information and just don't care or understand the implications of it is too high for accusations like this to run rampant.
It's a pretty well established fact in a LOT of fields that certain ACCUSATIONS (even if proven false or you are proven innocent) will still be damaging and damning. I can't believe I can't remember the name currently but take the case from last year about the young mother accused of killing her own daughter. The verdict was innocent and people did not care. Far and away the prevailing opinion was 'SHE WAS GUILTY ANYWAY BURN HER DON'T LET HER DO ANYTHING SHE'S A MONSTER.' even though 'officially' and potentially 'truly' she was innocent of any wrongdoing.
Sometimes a fake whistleblower can do as much harm as a real one... and I worry due to a lot of the logic I saw in that thread that rampant 'whistleblowing' of this sort will stagnate the scene. One of the most worrying phenomena I saw in that thread, particularly early, is that people automatically believed the op without looking at the replays at all because 'Spades isn't a top tier player and lucifron is really good.' This scares me for a number of reasons most of which involves the fact that especially in NA any player that wants to become a 'pro' needs a 'lucky break' against a big name and/or on a big stage to get noticed enough to have anyone want them to be a pro. If the current situation is allowed then potentially this could become an issue where any upset by a lower tier player would be completely overanalyzed and any butthurt fans of the top tier player that got beat could draw up any amount of accusations about hacking. The following sentence is not an attempt to argue for spades innocence in any way but, the widely accepted belief is that to beat a player 'better' than you you have to cut corners and 'get lucky' on your guesses/how the build works out. Add in to this that a lot of 'smart' defensive timings are done blind (People argued hacks over him putting down an ebay at 6:15 which is a STANDARD time to do that against both potential cloak banshees TvT and potential DT in TvP) and sometimes it just takes randomly moving your army and catching them out of position, or taking a risk, to break a player 'technically' better than you.
Altogether letting this run rampant worries me just as much as potentially letting hackers run free, especially as someone hoping to break into the pro scene (somehow).
On June 06 2012 06:43 skatbone wrote: Entertaining blog. Good detective work.
In case it hasn't been mentioned (I didn't see any mention in the thread) and following the rigor of your analysis, he always correctly capitalizes the "N" in LucifroN.
I find TL posts to usually be haphazard with regard to the respect of capitalizations in player names. The paranoid me kept thinking, only LucifroN himself would care enough to keep capitalizing the "N" in his name. Even within this thread, we have people capitalizing it once, only to spell it with a lowercase the next time.
Nonsense, the most avid LucifroN fans do capitalize the ending letter N. (And maybe even other people like me when I feel like it).
Judging from his posts in the SC2 spanish site, he is just a fan that thought there was maphacking in the game. In the spanish forums he talks and behaves as a fan (I know spanish...), he came here by the renown of TL, and thats all. The reason behind posting that stuff about maphacking now and not in some other time is his own personal reason, and there's not much else to it (he just wanted to, could only do it this time, who knows?).
Last point: In Spain there's people that doesn't write perfectly, (talking about internet... that's even more likely to be seen) so medivac becomes medivak. And yes, as Gheed guessed, the word "Cloack" means a poor english education. (I have none english education so sorry, yet I do say Cloak[ed] ^^)
On June 06 2012 05:34 sekritzzz wrote: One thing which surprises me is how many people are asking for his identity (even if this might be a light-hearted thread). Why does identity matter when discussing an issue which doesn't require the OP's identity? If anything identity clouds the judgement of people.
If the OP's evidence/idea was stupid it would have been disregarded. If the OP's evidence/idea has a strong backbone, it gets the attention it deserves (which is happening right now). The only thing, the identity of this person "drolets" would do is to make people make irrational arguements which have nothing to do with the actual issue. Ex: "oh "x" person posted this to discredit him because he thought he would win more convincingly" , or " Oh "y" person only posted this because spades kept beating him in playhem".
The question of whether identity should be revealed has implications for TL policy with respect future maphack allegations. I.e. does anonymity allow for exploitation of the mob mentality by means if exaggerated and embellished "evidence" without fear of accountability?
On June 06 2012 05:34 sekritzzz wrote: One thing which surprises me is how many people are asking for his identity (even if this might be a light-hearted thread). Why does identity matter when discussing an issue which doesn't require the OP's identity? If anything identity clouds the judgement of people.
If the OP's evidence/idea was stupid it would have been disregarded. If the OP's evidence/idea has a strong backbone, it gets the attention it deserves (which is happening right now). The only thing, the identity of this person "drolets" would do is to make people make irrational arguements which have nothing to do with the actual issue. Ex: "oh "x" person posted this to discredit him because he thought he would win more convincingly" , or " Oh "y" person only posted this because spades kept beating him in playhem".
Well, you have to look at if someone wanted to slander Spades for some reason by exaggerating events. That could play a crucial part in determining whether or not the claims have some merit or if they're just to get back at Spades.
I'd be willing to give anyone 1,000,000,000$, yes one billion, if they can exaggerate/abuse mob mentality enough to kick idra out of his team. He is disliked (and also liked!) by a lot of players but nobody can ever call him a hacker because there literally is zero evidence pointing to that fact nor would anyone believe it. I can definetly see the abuse of anonomity and mob mentality when there is a lack of information such as me accusing Thorzain of something like, " Oh Thorzain robbed me in Sweden", but the OP provided his PoV and gave you the replays to look at for yourself. What would identity add to the discussion other than take attention away from the replays in this situation?
Anyways it is TL's call, and I would have personally used my own name if I was going to accuse someone of something, but anonimity in my opinion needs to be respected in some cases because otherwise things which need fixing would always stay underground due to fear of possible repercussions.
Obviously idra is an irrelevant example here because he is a public personality whose games are well known. But with spades we're talking about a lesser known player who has hacked in the past. If you don't think the mob mentality can be exploited, just look at the first page of that thread and how many ppl immediately assumed the OP was correct without first watching the replays. They assumed based solely on the amount if bullet points the OP included as supposed evidence. If this person had used their real identity, they wouldn't be so quick to throw out exaggerations because they would be held accountable. Posts like that have the potential to insta-destroy a career, therefore the accuser damn well better be ready to back up his statements and show us his true face.
And yes, whistleblowers in real life are subject to real-life dangers and threats but I don't think an Internet poster would be so threatened.
It is pretty obvious, based on the evidence presented, that the guy has some connection to Luci's team. Most likely, after the match Luci or his manager observed that Spades had surprisingly good counters and responses to Luci's army movements.
This guy heard it and decided to check it out after getting the replays from Luci. He thinks he finds cheating and decides to expose it. As for whether or not it is Luci himself (highly unlikely) just check his match history. If he was playing games most of the day he wouldn't have time to put together that thread (which would be a pretty big time commitment).
Unfortunately I was quite ready to give Spades the benefit of the doubt since all the evidence was circumstantial. then he retires and all but confirms his guilt.
On June 06 2012 05:34 sekritzzz wrote: One thing which surprises me is how many people are asking for his identity (even if this might be a light-hearted thread). Why does identity matter when discussing an issue which doesn't require the OP's identity? If anything identity clouds the judgement of people.
If the OP's evidence/idea was stupid it would have been disregarded. If the OP's evidence/idea has a strong backbone, it gets the attention it deserves (which is happening right now). The only thing, the identity of this person "drolets" would do is to make people make irrational arguements which have nothing to do with the actual issue. Ex: "oh "x" person posted this to discredit him because he thought he would win more convincingly" , or " Oh "y" person only posted this because spades kept beating him in playhem".
The question of whether identity should be revealed has implications for TL policy with respect future maphack allegations. I.e. does anonymity allow for exploitation of the mob mentality by means if exaggerated and embellished "evidence" without fear of accountability?
On June 06 2012 05:44 plasmidghost wrote:
On June 06 2012 05:34 sekritzzz wrote: One thing which surprises me is how many people are asking for his identity (even if this might be a light-hearted thread). Why does identity matter when discussing an issue which doesn't require the OP's identity? If anything identity clouds the judgement of people.
If the OP's evidence/idea was stupid it would have been disregarded. If the OP's evidence/idea has a strong backbone, it gets the attention it deserves (which is happening right now). The only thing, the identity of this person "drolets" would do is to make people make irrational arguements which have nothing to do with the actual issue. Ex: "oh "x" person posted this to discredit him because he thought he would win more convincingly" , or " Oh "y" person only posted this because spades kept beating him in playhem".
Well, you have to look at if someone wanted to slander Spades for some reason by exaggerating events. That could play a crucial part in determining whether or not the claims have some merit or if they're just to get back at Spades.
I'd be willing to give anyone 1,000,000,000$, yes one billion, if they can exaggerate/abuse mob mentality enough to kick idra out of his team. He is disliked (and also liked!) by a lot of players but nobody can ever call him a hacker because there literally is zero evidence pointing to that fact nor would anyone believe it. I can definetly see the abuse of anonomity and mob mentality when there is a lack of information such as me accusing Thorzain of something like, " Oh Thorzain robbed me in Sweden", but the OP provided his PoV and gave you the replays to look at for yourself. What would identity add to the discussion other than take attention away from the replays in this situation?
Anyways it is TL's call, and I would have personally used my own name if I was going to accuse someone of something, but anonimity in my opinion needs to be respected in some cases because otherwise things which need fixing would always stay underground due to fear of possible repercussions.
Obviously idra is an irrelevant example here because he is a public personality whose games are well known. But with spades we're talking about a lesser known player who has hacked in the past. If you don't think the mob mentality can be exploited, just look at the first page of that thread and how many ppl immediately assumed the OP was correct without first watching the replays. They assumed based solely on the amount if bullet points the OP included as supposed evidence. If this person had used their real identity, they wouldn't be so quick to throw out exaggerations because they would be held accountable. Posts like that have the potential to insta-destroy a career, therefore the accuser damn well better be ready to back up his statements and show us his true face.
And yes, whistleblowers in real life are subject to real-life dangers and threats but I don't think an Internet poster would be so threatened.
In this day, where you can find out almost everything about a person online, even stuff that could harm him in real life (destroy career / relationships/ bank account info) do you not have the right to stay anonymous when it's not absolutely necessary? Since Spades probably doesn't have such a hardcore fanbase, it's still food for thought to think about in the future right?
On June 06 2012 07:15 petered wrote: It is pretty obvious, based on the evidence presented, that the guy has some connection to Luci's team. Most likely, after the match Luci or his manager observed that Spades had surprisingly good counters and responses to Luci's army movements.
This guy heard it and decided to check it out after getting the replays from Luci. He thinks he finds cheating and decides to expose it. As for whether or not it is Luci himself (highly unlikely) just check his match history. If he was playing games most of the day he wouldn't have time to put together that thread (which would be a pretty big time commitment).
Unfortunately I was quite ready to give Spades the benefit of the doubt since all the evidence was circumstantial. then he retires and all but confirms his guilt.
Well technically, he did not retire. He just left his team. And I don't think that really confirms his guilt, it's like Destiny being dismissed from his team. You can't keep sponsors with that kind of reputation, so Spades is going to play by himself.
I think the identity of the user is actually somewhat important. If he's Lucifron's brother for example, the guy would have a motive. If the person is both presenting his information in a biased way and he is biased himself, that just gives an even easier way of making the thread sound worse. Personally, I find it fishy that he needed to make a smurf account in order to present this information.
That has no bearing on whether or not Spades was hacking. I hope the guy wasn't because it's a sad thing to see for anyone, but we will see. I said it in a different thread, you could solve the whistleblowing problem by having a council (say, one person from each of the big teams or something, maybe not that many). The whistleblower forwards their OP to this council, they look at it, and if THEY determine that it's credible, they post it.
This solves the issue of 1) ensuring the information is at least potentially credible and worthy of bringing to light, and 2) protecting the identity of the whistleblower. It also prevents a biased thread engineered to create a reaction before a mob even views the replay. If people are predisposed to see maphacking, they're even more likely to find it when they actually watch the replays.
I always love your blogs Gheed, this one is no different. I've been following the Spades drama with some amusement since we love us some drama in this community, well done us. Thanks bud.
This is pretty much what I did at work today, only much less exciting. t.t (tracked down who made an error in our system that screwed one of our customers pretty hard... even dug through the recycling bin and compared handwriting lol)
Regarding Drolets' level of English. There are plenty of native speakers that talk and write like that. Sad truth. But I agree that the guy isnt a native English-speaker. Not that it matters.
Regarding the whole maphacking thing, Blizzard has never been hot on hack-prevention or detection. And knowing that Blizzard/ Activision cares more about profit than the actual quality of their products, I don't see them doing anything about it. They will just banwave some people for 2 days each, update Warden, which will again be hacked etc etc etc. Hacks existed since 2010 but nobody gave a shit at that time, probably because people were too busy trying to figure out the game.
Right now, who dares to play public Diablo 3 with a level 60 character on Inferno? lol
I was disappointed the spelling 'errors' weren't enough to find another profile in TeamLiquid forums. There are a number of other elements in the post that could be used if you had time or a good search program. For example, the use of ..., using capital letters for emphasis, the occasional lower-case i, excessive use of commas, sec instead of seconds, xel'naga instead of Xel'naga, cc instead of CC or oc or orbital, etc.
Like much of the Spades cheating proof, individually none of these are much but combined you could probably build a case that is circumstantial but arguable.
The person I found is http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=SusaVile whose last post was apparently the same day the drolets account was created. It lists Portugal for nation which is close to the guess of a Spanish op.
Now, do I think SusaVile is drolets - No. And apologies to SusaVile unless I am right in which case it is time to confess!!! But I could make about as good a case for that as I've seen made about Spades hacking.
As much as I don't like witch hunts, in this case, it was for the better cause. To ignore a maphacking pro simply shits all over the name of e-sports. Regarding this, I feel that if the mods reveal Drolet's actual identity to the general TL community, it would verge on borderline illegal action. It's like we're condemning this guy for bringing a maphacker to the light. REALLY? That would be more outrageous than the "witchhunt" for Spade. I really hope that they solve this internally, because if this is the Drolet from the Spanish SCII community that just wanted to bring a pro maphacker into the light, that's a fucking shame. What happened to Spades would seem like a fucking joke compared to what could potentially happen to this guy if his identity was revealed. Solve it internally, keep the community out of it. Same with future maphacking claims/accusations
I would look in the IPL TAC 3 threads about Karont3 vs Quantic and vs x6. Someone that close to the team would be a big fan in their first international team event. I'm off to be a detective in those threads, wish me luck. I'll update this post if I find anything.
Edit: Okay, with some research into the aforementioned and related threads I have found a few possibilities. These are based on post counts, join dates, country, knowledge of the Karont3 team and not being a part of the K3 organization (if it was one of them I truly believe that the TL mods would have released that information already). So there are under a half dozen possible posters, I'll give the possible reasons for each and their TL user names, I hope no one will assume they are actually the OP of the spades thread. I'm mostly doing this for fun, I have no outside knowledge of this matter. Seriously, don't belive me on my word, do your own research before you chose to point the finger at any of these guys, one of the reasons I'm leaving in all of them is to remind people how unsure I am. Even if I am right and one of these users is the poster of the allegations ALL OF THE OTHERS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
Okay, with that out of the way we'll begin. The first user I'm looking at is monx1e, he drew my attention by being the only Spaniard to post in both IPL TAC 3 threads about K3. (Qxg v K3: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339648) and K3 vs x6 (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341598). In one he talks about the improved play of AlastOr so clearly he has seen the guy play before. In the other he talks about how Lucifron is in University and isn't practicing much. Clearly these are both comments made by a dedicated fan of the team or of Spanish e-sports; he is aware of these players outside of this particular game. He also posts in the K3 announcement thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=323240) which has only seven total posts so he is clearly on top of the K3 squad. He doesn't say anything that points to him in this thread though. moving on. He posts in the Lucifron streaming thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=331379#19) saying that Luci should be featured. That wraps it up for monx1e, a big fan of K3 and he follows the team in a serious way but nothing else to point to him.
Next up is Storm-Giant, another Spaniard who posted in one of the IPL TAC threads about K3. He has a recent join date, like monx1e, and a low post count. To me these speak against either of these guys being the culprit as they don't have anything to protect in this second level anonymity. He posts in the EC cup (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337902¤tpage=6#112) supporting Lucifron. Nothing odd here since he is a fan. He posts in the K3/x6 IPL TAC thread in response to someone saying that K3 is the weakest team defending them. he is also a member of the Lucifron fan club (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337166#20) and thats about it on him. I honestly think he is the least likely of the guys I found.
Third we have Berceno who is the first of these people to have been found posting in the "[?]Spades Hacking?" thread. He comes really late to that party though (his first post is #581) where he says he has lost all respect for Spades. He is totally convinced in his first post that Spades is a hacker but so were a large majority of people posting in that thread. His post in the QxG/K3 IPL thread was what first lead me to him, he sates that Lucifron hasn't practiced since "1-5 may" which is the knowledge of either a very intent fan or someone in the know. His low post count and country of origin once again made him worth it for me to check. He is also the first of these posters to post in the original Showmatch thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339927¤tpage=2#26) since the user who requested these replays has to have watched the showmatch I couldn't help but see that as a big point in thinking he might be the poster. He has also posted in the Luci fan club without actually being a member. I don't think this really affects my position on him though, these guys are all fans of Lucifron, that is why I'm looking at them.
Now with these three out of the way we move on to the two more interesting possibilities: a Spanish caster and a German member of TL with enough posts to have an identity he would want to protect.
First we have our German friend: StarVe. In all honesty I wouldn't have looked twice at this guy if someone hadn't posted about "medevak" being a German spelling. He kept turning up in every thread I was looking at so I looked into him some more. In all honesty I don't think he is Drolets, if I was forced to guess I would go with the last guy I mention. However for the sake of completion I'll lay out the arguments in his favour. He posted twice in the Spades is Hacking thread, however his first post in that thread was number 2000 something. He didn't seem to be following it earlier on. He has 6 of the first 19 posts in the K3/x6 IPL TAC game and was clearly rooting for K3 but hey, he is European. I root for the NA teams most of the time. Regional pride and all that. Honestly I think he is only a EU fan who is excited to see K3 do well as an all EU team, hell I've been rooting for them as an all Forgiener squad and because Lucifron and the rest of K3 have been playing really well (not counting the game against QxG). I would say this guy is totally exonerated. On to the last guy I looked at and the most likely in my opinion.
Finally we have the Spanish caster and most likely poster: LorCHsc2. This guy is a prominent member of the Spanish sc2 scene and, therefore, would have reason to keep his identity secret. Of all of the TL users I have mentioned or will mention he is the one who would have the best shot at getting these replays in my opinion. He is the original poster of the IEM Spanish broadcast (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=317941#1) and has interviewed Vortix, Lucifron and AlastOr (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=328265#1) so he clearly has enough of a connection to these players to be able to request a replay from them which he could do without even alerting anyone on K3 to his suspicions; he could ask them for the replays simply to cast them, I'm sure they would say yes. LorCH also has a similar writing style to the poster of the Spades thread, Drolets, whose profile can be viewed here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=drolets He has the overuse of commas and some English misspellings which, although not conclusive, make him seem like a strong possibility. He also says, in Drolets' thread
Sorry 'bout my english :D. I speak better than i write... i think...
which agrees with the above poster who felt that Drolets spoke more than he wrote. Now, in addition to this he Streamed his analysis of the replays in Spanish, getting those stream views that people said CatZ was getting by taking this into the public eye. So there is a motive, not only to help Lucifron but also for himself. He also posted this
On May 25 2012 02:45 LorCHsc2 wrote: Photos couldnt be added here so...
in the Spanish WCS qualifiers thread. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339847¤tpage=2#26) which, I'm sure you'll notice is the original source for the pictures which Drolets used in his Liquipidia edits. He posts in Vortix Streaming, Lucifron's fan club, and a lot of various Spanish related threads. I could find no instances of him using the Medevak spelling though, which would have proved it to me. In fact the only times that spelling is used on TL are in Drolets' post and posts quoting him. Seriously, that is it. LorCH also uses ellipses "..." a lot which is consistent with Drolets' post. (for example, this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342248¤tpage=120#2384)
This guy has casted a lot of Lucifron games, a lot of K3 games and has interviewed at least 3/5ths of the K3 line-up. He has the connection to get the replays and the motive to hide his Identity as he has something to protect within this community. In my opinion he is the most likely candidate and I personally would not be surprised if it turns out that he is Drolets.
tl:dr look into LorCHsc2, he looks like he had motive, ability and opportunity to to be Drolets.
Edit 2: I've found LorCH's twitter and am attempting to translate from Spanish. Interestingly enough one of the people he is tweeting to is Storm-Giant who is also the only one to post a comment on LorCH's announcement that he would be streaming the replays of Spades/Lucifron
Edit 3: The person who informed LorCH, Karont3, Lucifron and Ryo was luciusvlm who is a TL user I saw pop up in a lot of the threads I was looking into.
My finance is sick of me being an internet detective so I'm off to bed. I may do more tomorrow. I hope someone will pick up where I left off though. Good luck to all you internet investigators!
I don't see why it's necessary to know who drolets is. The information's there. Solid, demonstrable facts. Where it's coming from is irrelevant when you can view the replays in their entirety yourself.
I don't see why his identity needs to ever be revealed, nor do I understand why this thread even exists.
The following is intended on being fairly light hearted, but also to demonstrate how easy it can be to collect 'evidence' in instances like this.
On June 06 2012 10:08 Promethelax wrote: I would look in the IPL TAC 3 threads about Karont3 vs Quantic and vs x6. Someone that close to the team would be a big fan in their first international team event. I'm off to be a detective in those threads, wish me luck. I'll update this post if I find anything.
I've been doing this and I'm starting to like 'shaaw' as a 'suspect' if you will.
There's a comment on his twitter that as far as I can Google translate:
Spanish - "Nose vosotros... pero para mi Spades utilizo hacks...."
Says (very roughly):
"Do not know you ... but for me using hacks .... Spades"
Could this mean "if not for me, you would not know that spades uses hacks????"
EDIT: it actually means "I don't know about you... but for me Spades uses hacks"
He also constantly comments on threads relating to Lucifron.
He also had not commented for a couple of weeks before 'Spades-Gate'.
He often makes statements only someone who knows Lucifron would make:
On April 23 2012 22:51 shaaw wrote: He just retired for 3-4 months, then he got back playing chossing less subjects at university so he can focus more on sc2.
On May 23 2012 21:51 shaaw wrote: Lucifron is not leaving karont3
The flexibility that karont3 gives him with his studies is really huge for him. Besides, he his with is 2 brothers (vortix playing and ryo managing).
On April 23 2012 00:51 iAmJeffReY wrote: Doesn't lucifron have two brothers that both play as pros? vortix and ryu I thought.
Yeah, vortix also has a stream (is on the op) and plays zerg. He beated sjow on The Gathering 2-0.
Ryo also plays with protoss but less than their brothers, he is focusing on helping their brothers being a manager for them.
His English patterns match that of 'drolets' post somewhat. But that could be said for anyone who has a fair grasp of English with Spanish as their first language.
Of course, google translate is not reliable, all of my points are very shaky and I did this more out of sheer boredom than anything else.
Please take this with infinity grains of salt, as I do not really believe it is shaaw who posted as drolets, I just enjoyed doing some pseudo, terribly novice detective work.
On June 06 2012 10:48 .Aar wrote: I don't see why it's necessary to know who drolets is. The information's there. Solid, demonstrable facts. Where it's coming from is irrelevant when you can view the replays in their entirety yourself.
I don't see why his identity needs to ever be revealed, nor do I understand why this thread even exists.
On June 06 2012 10:59 CursivE wrote: The following is intended on being fairly light hearted, but also to demonstrate how easy it can be to collect 'evidence' in instances like this.
On June 06 2012 10:08 Promethelax wrote: I would look in the IPL TAC 3 threads about Karont3 vs Quantic and vs x6. Someone that close to the team would be a big fan in their first international team event. I'm off to be a detective in those threads, wish me luck. I'll update this post if I find anything.
I've been doing this and I'm starting to like 'shaaw' as a 'suspect' if you will.
There's a comment on his twitter that as far as I can Google translate:
Spanish - "Nose vosotros... pero para mi Spades utilizo hacks...."
Says (very roughly):
"Do not know you ... but for me using hacks .... Spades"
Could this mean "if not for me, you would not know that spades uses hacks????"
He also constantly comments on threads relating to Lucifron.
On April 23 2012 22:51 shaaw wrote: He just retired for 3-4 months, then he got back playing chossing less subjects at university so he can focus more on sc2.
On April 23 2012 00:51 iAmJeffReY wrote: Doesn't lucifron have two brothers that both play as pros? vortix and ryu I thought.
Yeah, vortix also has a stream (is on the op) and plays zerg. He beated sjow on The Gathering 2-0.
Ryo also plays with protoss but less than their brothers, he is focusing on helping their brothers being a manager for them.
His English patterns match that of 'drolets' post somewhat. But that could be said for anyone who has a fair grasp of English with Spanish as their first language.
Of course, google translate is not reliable, all of my points are very shaky and I did this more out of sheer boredom than anything else.
Please take this with infinity grains of salt, as I do not really believe it is shaaw who posted as drolets, I just enjoyed doing some pseudo, terribly novice detective work.
I had fun anyway!
Glad to see I'm not the only one being a crazy internet detective and wasting all their time. Good call looking into twitter. I'm off to the twits!
I don't have a problem with him/her staying anonymous, I have a problem with the post they made. They are definitely not a pro player, then again maybe they could be I’ve seen pro players that are good players, but terrible at replay analyses, and drolets is terrible at it. Out of the forty-five or so actions he/she listed, only about four of them were proper suspicious actions for possible hacking, the rest were completely wrong, they obviously do not have a high level understanding of Terran in general.
None of those seven replays had anything to make a pro player any more then suspicious certainly not enough to publicly say the person in question hacks. I would say that is the reason for their anonymity.
The replay pack however after analysing a chuck of it, several replays show strong indications of suspicious activity. That does not take away the fact that, the starting poster did a bad job, and started the hunt with bad evidence.
On June 06 2012 12:03 VonDarkmore wrote: I don't have a problem with him/her staying anonymous, I have a problem with the post they made. They are definitely not a pro player, then again maybe they could be I’ve seen pro players that are good players, but terrible at replay analyses, and drolets is terrible at it. Out of the forty-five or so actions he/she listed, only about four of them were proper suspicious actions for possible hacking, the rest were completely wrong, they obviously do not have a high level understanding of Terran in general.
None of those seven replays had anything to make a pro player any more then suspicious certainly not enough to publicly say the person in question hacks. I would say that is the reason for their anonymity.
The replay pack however after analysing a chuck of it, several replays show strong indications of suspicious activity. That does not take away the fact that, the starting poster did a bad job, and started the hunt with bad evidence.
Yeah, only terrible terrans like Illusion, Merz, Drewbie, and Painuser agreed with the OP.
On June 06 2012 12:03 VonDarkmore wrote: I don't have a problem with him/her staying anonymous, I have a problem with the post they made. They are definitely not a pro player, then again maybe they could be I’ve seen pro players that are good players, but terrible at replay analyses, and drolets is terrible at it. Out of the forty-five or so actions he/she listed, only about four of them were proper suspicious actions for possible hacking, the rest were completely wrong, they obviously do not have a high level understanding of Terran in general.
None of those seven replays had anything to make a pro player any more then suspicious certainly not enough to publicly say the person in question hacks. I would say that is the reason for their anonymity.
The replay pack however after analysing a chuck of it, several replays show strong indications of suspicious activity. That does not take away the fact that, the starting poster did a bad job, and started the hunt with bad evidence.
Yeah, only terrible terrans like Illusion, Merz, Drewbie, and Painuser agreed with the OP.
don't think that's what he is getting at, he is just trying to say that the op was clearly not a high level player or close to it, judging by notes he made that were suspicious.
On June 06 2012 10:08 Promethelax wrote: I would look in the IPL TAC 3 threads about Karont3 vs Quantic and vs x6. Someone that close to the team would be a big fan in their first international team event. I'm off to be a detective in those threads, wish me luck. I'll update this post if I find anything.
Edit: Okay, with some research into the aforementioned and related threads I have found a few possibilities. These are based on post counts, join dates, country, knowledge of the Karont3 team and not being a part of the K3 organization (if it was one of them I truly believe that the TL mods would have released that information already). So there are under a half dozen possible posters, I'll give the possible reasons for each and their TL user names, I hope no one will assume they are actually the OP of the spades thread. I'm mostly doing this for fun, I have no outside knowledge of this matter. Seriously, don't belive me on my word, do your own research before you chose to point the finger at any of these guys, one of the reasons I'm leaving in all of them is to remind people how unsure I am. Even if I am right and one of these users is the poster of the allegations ALL OF THE OTHERS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
Okay, with that out of the way we'll begin. The first user I'm looking at is monx1e, he drew my attention by being the only Spaniard to post in both IPL TAC 3 threads about K3. (Qxg v K3: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339648) and K3 vs x6 (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341598). In one he talks about the improved play of AlastOr so clearly he has seen the guy play before. In the other he talks about how Lucifron is in University and isn't practicing much. Clearly these are both comments made by a dedicated fan of the team or of Spanish e-sports; he is aware of these players outside of this particular game. He also posts in the K3 announcement thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=323240) which has only seven total posts so he is clearly on top of the K3 squad. He doesn't say anything that points to him in this thread though. moving on. He posts in the Lucifron streaming thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=331379#19) saying that Luci should be featured. That wraps it up for monx1e, a big fan of K3 and he follows the team in a serious way but nothing else to point to him.
Next up is Storm-Giant, another Spaniard who posted in one of the IPL TAC threads about K3. He has a recent join date, like monx1e, and a low post count. To me these speak against either of these guys being the culprit as they don't have anything to protect in this second level anonymity. He posts in the EC cup (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337902¤tpage=6#112) supporting Lucifron. Nothing odd here since he is a fan. He posts in the K3/x6 IPL TAC thread in response to someone saying that K3 is the weakest team defending them. he is also a member of the Lucifron fan club (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337166#20) and thats about it on him. I honestly think he is the least likely of the guys I found.
Third we have Berceno who is the first of these people to have been found posting in the "[?]Spades Hacking?" thread. He comes really late to that party though (his first post is #581) where he says he has lost all respect for Spades. He is totally convinced in his first post that Spades is a hacker but so were a large majority of people posting in that thread. His post in the QxG/K3 IPL thread was what first lead me to him, he sates that Lucifron hasn't practiced since "1-5 may" which is the knowledge of either a very intent fan or someone in the know. His low post count and country of origin once again made him worth it for me to check. He is also the first of these posters to post in the original Showmatch thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339927¤tpage=2#26) since the user who requested these replays has to have watched the showmatch I couldn't help but see that as a big point in thinking he might be the poster. He has also posted in the Luci fan club without actually being a member. I don't think this really affects my position on him though, these guys are all fans of Lucifron, that is why I'm looking at them.
Now with these three out of the way we move on to the two more interesting possibilities: a Spanish caster and a German member of TL with enough posts to have an identity he would want to protect.
First we have our German friend: StarVe. In all honesty I wouldn't have looked twice at this guy if someone hadn't posted about "medevak" being a German spelling. He kept turning up in every thread I was looking at so I looked into him some more. In all honesty I don't think he is Drolets, if I was forced to guess I would go with the last guy I mention. However for the sake of completion I'll lay out the arguments in his favour. He posted twice in the Spades is Hacking thread, however his first post in that thread was number 2000 something. He didn't seem to be following it earlier on. He has 6 of the first 19 posts in the K3/x6 IPL TAC game and was clearly rooting for K3 but hey, he is European. I root for the NA teams most of the time. Regional pride and all that. Honestly I think he is only a EU fan who is excited to see K3 do well as an all EU team, hell I've been rooting for them as an all Forgiener squad and because Lucifron and the rest of K3 have been playing really well (not counting the game against QxG). I would say this guy is totally exonerated. On to the last guy I looked at and the most likely in my opinion.
Finally we have the Spanish caster and most likely poster: LorCHsc2. This guy is a prominent member of the Spanish sc2 scene and, therefore, would have reason to keep his identity secret. Of all of the TL users I have mentioned or will mention he is the one who would have the best shot at getting these replays in my opinion. He is the original poster of the IEM Spanish broadcast (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=317941#1) and has interviewed Vortix, Lucifron and AlastOr (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=328265#1) so he clearly has enough of a connection to these players to be able to request a replay from them which he could do without even alerting anyone on K3 to his suspicions; he could ask them for the replays simply to cast them, I'm sure they would say yes. LorCH also has a similar writing style to the poster of the Spades thread, Drolets, whose profile can be viewed here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=drolets He has the overuse of commas and some English misspellings which, although not conclusive, make him seem like a strong possibility. He also says, in Drolets' thread
Sorry 'bout my english :D. I speak better than i write... i think...
which agrees with the above poster who felt that Drolets spoke more than he wrote. Now, in addition to this he Streamed his analysis of the replays in Spanish, getting those stream views that people said CatZ was getting by taking this into the public eye. So there is a motive, not only to help Lucifron but also for himself. He also posted this
in the Spanish WCS qualifiers thread. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339847¤tpage=2#26) which, I'm sure you'll notice is the original source for the pictures which Drolets used in his Liquipidia edits. He posts in Vortix Streaming, Lucifron's fan club, and a lot of various Spanish related threads. I could find no instances of him using the Medevak spelling though, which would have proved it to me. In fact the only times that spelling is used on TL are in Drolets' post and posts quoting him. Seriously, that is it. LorCH also uses ellipses "..." a lot which is consistent with Drolets' post. (for example, this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342248¤tpage=120#2384)
This guy has casted a lot of Lucifron games, a lot of K3 games and has interviewed at least 3/5ths of the K3 line-up. He has the connection to get the replays and the motive to hide his Identity as he has something to protect within this community. In my opinion he is the most likely candidate and I personally would not be surprised if it turns out that he is Drolets.
tl:dr look into LorCHsc2, he looks like he had motive, ability and opportunity to to be Drolets.
Edit 2: I've found LorCH's twitter and am attempting to translate from Spanish. Interestingly enough one of the people he is tweeting to is Storm-Giant who is also the only one to post a comment on LorCH's announcement that he would be streaming the replays of Spades/Lucifron
Edit 3: The person who informed LorCH, Karont3, Lucifron and Ryo was luciusvlm who is a TL user I saw pop up in a lot of the threads I was looking into.
My finance is sick of me being an internet detective so I'm off to bed. I may do more tomorrow. I hope someone will pick up where I left off though. Good luck to all you internet investigators!
This work is even more thorough than Gheed's original post. I applaud your work, good sir.
On June 06 2012 12:03 VonDarkmore wrote: I don't have a problem with him/her staying anonymous, I have a problem with the post they made. They are definitely not a pro player, then again maybe they could be I’ve seen pro players that are good players, but terrible at replay analyses, and drolets is terrible at it. Out of the forty-five or so actions he/she listed, only about four of them were proper suspicious actions for possible hacking, the rest were completely wrong, they obviously do not have a high level understanding of Terran in general.
None of those seven replays had anything to make a pro player any more then suspicious certainly not enough to publicly say the person in question hacks. I would say that is the reason for their anonymity.
The replay pack however after analysing a chuck of it, several replays show strong indications of suspicious activity. That does not take away the fact that, the starting poster did a bad job, and started the hunt with bad evidence.
Yeah, only terrible terrans like Illusion, Merz, Drewbie, and Painuser agreed with the OP.
don't think that's what he is getting at, he is just trying to say that the op was clearly not a high level player or close to it, judging by notes he made that were suspicious.
that is correct. By the way the pro's that analysed, and agree he hacks are like me they analysed several other replays NOT the first 7, since those first 7 were useless out of 2 hours of game play he had around 6 suspicious moves that is why painuser, and all the others are talking about the spades vs theognis games, and other games from the replay pack, which high level players are saying he hacked in this game or that game vs lucifroN? Cause from what I see they bypassed those games cause there was no strong evidence, however they found some in the replay pack, example: the games vs theognis that is why they are talking about them.
People might be agreeing with drolets, but they are not agreeing with the evidence he produced, they had to find other evidence cause his was not good.
Here are the two Lorch posts in the Spades thread (linked by promethelax)
Use Hack vs LucifroN
Lose the showmatch
GG
I have to say... here, in spain, we are sorprised because Spades won 3 games to LucifroN. We have to remember, Luci won 3-0 to Thorzain so... I dont know what do you think about but... if he is using hacks again... he has to be banned for a looooong long time, dont you think?
Today I'm going to stream All the replays (Spanish) with a few partners.
We will talk about every one of the argument of this post. Time? 22:00 CET.
If some one speaks english you can alert us in the Justin chat and we can try some english to you ^^
I'm trying to take a few GM players to discuts those arguments, game by game.
Are you in?
Did he use hack? Doesn't he?
Sorry 'bout my english :D. I speak better than i write... i think...
In the first one, he is outlining what I believe was his motive. He felt Lucifron was a much better playing than Spades and decided to look for something fishy after the 4-3 result (far closer than anyone expected). He is also suggesting a long ban for Spades, suggesting he is personally angry about the alleged hacking.
The second post might be even more indicative of Lorch as drolets. If he is willing to stream his analysis, he has obviously gone over the replays very closely himself already (maybe even originally).
On June 06 2012 12:03 VonDarkmore wrote: I don't have a problem with him/her staying anonymous, I have a problem with the post they made. They are definitely not a pro player, then again maybe they could be I’ve seen pro players that are good players, but terrible at replay analyses, and drolets is terrible at it. Out of the forty-five or so actions he/she listed, only about four of them were proper suspicious actions for possible hacking, the rest were completely wrong, they obviously do not have a high level understanding of Terran in general.
None of those seven replays had anything to make a pro player any more then suspicious certainly not enough to publicly say the person in question hacks. I would say that is the reason for their anonymity.
The replay pack however after analysing a chuck of it, several replays show strong indications of suspicious activity. That does not take away the fact that, the starting poster did a bad job, and started the hunt with bad evidence.
Yeah, only terrible terrans like Illusion, Merz, Drewbie, and Painuser agreed with the OP.
don't think that's what he is getting at, he is just trying to say that the op was clearly not a high level player or close to it, judging by notes he made that were suspicious.
that is correct. By the way the pro's that analysed, and agree he hacks are like me they analysed several other replays NOT the first 7, since those first 7 were useless out of 2 hours of game play he had around 6 suspicious moves that is why painuser, and all the others are talking about the spades vs theognis games, and other games from the replay pack, which high level players are saying he hacked in this game or that game vs lucifroN? Cause from what I see they bypassed those games cause there was no strong evidence, however they found some in the replay pack, example: the games vs theognis that is why they are talking about them.
People might be agreeing with drolets, but they are not agreeing with the evidence he produced, they had to find other evidence cause his was not good.
Agreed in full. The OP of that thread was fully of shoddy halfbaked inconsequential things and the replay pack itself did not in any way have anything close to enough 'odd' things to truly suspect hacking. There were somewhere around 5 things that stood out to me as weird, and even when I ladder if one weird thing happens in a game I don't feel at all alarmed...
From all I've heard though there was a giant shift in his style from the lucifron match to the replay pack and the theognis games had quite a few more odd things in them than would be usual but I haven't personally yet had the time to look through those.
I'm getting away from my original point... the quality of the OP post showed a lack of understanding and a strong desire to find ANYTHING that isn't 100% standard or based on 100% readily available information, both of which are horrible standards to hold someone to for 'hacking' or 'not'. Altogether, if Spades truly is hacking the OP was blindly lucky to be right (which by the OP's logic means the OP is obviously hacking) and either way the thread should've been closed due to the horrible quality of the first post and had someone else put together a better post for a new topic.
I lost sight of my original point being that the shoddy quality of the original post is WHY anonymous PUBLIC tips should not be allowed like that. A one post count person should NOT get to randomly waltz in and put up a thread like that. If they want to give an anonymous tip then they should give that behind the scenes to someone respected and present the case to them (a mod or a pro or something) and have them post the thread, or just post it on their own main account (even if they said 'I got an anonymous tip from someone' and are lying)
On June 06 2012 10:59 CursivE wrote: The following is intended on being fairly light hearted, but also to demonstrate how easy it can be to collect 'evidence' in instances like this.
On June 06 2012 10:08 Promethelax wrote: I would look in the IPL TAC 3 threads about Karont3 vs Quantic and vs x6. Someone that close to the team would be a big fan in their first international team event. I'm off to be a detective in those threads, wish me luck. I'll update this post if I find anything.
I've been doing this and I'm starting to like 'shaaw' as a 'suspect' if you will.
There's a comment on his twitter that as far as I can Google translate:
Spanish - "Nose vosotros... pero para mi Spades utilizo hacks...."
Says (very roughly):
"Do not know you ... but for me using hacks .... Spades"
Could this mean "if not for me, you would not know that spades uses hacks????"
He also constantly comments on threads relating to Lucifron.
On April 23 2012 22:51 shaaw wrote: He just retired for 3-4 months, then he got back playing chossing less subjects at university so he can focus more on sc2.
On April 23 2012 00:51 iAmJeffReY wrote: Doesn't lucifron have two brothers that both play as pros? vortix and ryu I thought.
Yeah, vortix also has a stream (is on the op) and plays zerg. He beated sjow on The Gathering 2-0.
Ryo also plays with protoss but less than their brothers, he is focusing on helping their brothers being a manager for them.
His English patterns match that of 'drolets' post somewhat. But that could be said for anyone who has a fair grasp of English with Spanish as their first language.
Of course, google translate is not reliable, all of my points are very shaky and I did this more out of sheer boredom than anything else.
Please take this with infinity grains of salt, as I do not really believe it is shaaw who posted as drolets, I just enjoyed doing some pseudo, terribly novice detective work.
I had fun anyway!
I found a post of shaaw misspelling analysis as "analisis" so that doesn't quite match up. To be honest if it is any of these guys, though, they probably took a lot more time preparing the post, hence leading to better english. So that doesn't rule him out.
I took a little bit of spanish and I am pretty sure the correct translation of shaaw's twitter is in fact: "I don't know about you... but for me Spades uses hacks" which is also evidence for shaaw being drolets.
I actually wouldn't be the slightest surprised to learn that many of the people outlines are working together on this project. they all love Luci hardcore and want to show the reason for a close match against a pretty mediocre player (who was most likely using hacks as they pointed out)
On June 06 2012 10:59 CursivE wrote: The following is intended on being fairly light hearted, but also to demonstrate how easy it can be to collect 'evidence' in instances like this.
On June 06 2012 10:08 Promethelax wrote: I would look in the IPL TAC 3 threads about Karont3 vs Quantic and vs x6. Someone that close to the team would be a big fan in their first international team event. I'm off to be a detective in those threads, wish me luck. I'll update this post if I find anything.
I've been doing this and I'm starting to like 'shaaw' as a 'suspect' if you will.
There's a comment on his twitter that as far as I can Google translate:
Spanish - "Nose vosotros... pero para mi Spades utilizo hacks...."
Says (very roughly):
"Do not know you ... but for me using hacks .... Spades"
Could this mean "if not for me, you would not know that spades uses hacks????"
He also constantly comments on threads relating to Lucifron.
On April 23 2012 22:51 shaaw wrote: He just retired for 3-4 months, then he got back playing chossing less subjects at university so he can focus more on sc2.
On April 23 2012 00:51 iAmJeffReY wrote: Doesn't lucifron have two brothers that both play as pros? vortix and ryu I thought.
Yeah, vortix also has a stream (is on the op) and plays zerg. He beated sjow on The Gathering 2-0.
Ryo also plays with protoss but less than their brothers, he is focusing on helping their brothers being a manager for them.
His English patterns match that of 'drolets' post somewhat. But that could be said for anyone who has a fair grasp of English with Spanish as their first language.
Of course, google translate is not reliable, all of my points are very shaky and I did this more out of sheer boredom than anything else.
Please take this with infinity grains of salt, as I do not really believe it is shaaw who posted as drolets, I just enjoyed doing some pseudo, terribly novice detective work.
I had fun anyway!
On June 06 2012 13:46 petered wrote: I found a post of shaaw misspelling analysis as "analisis" so that doesn't quite match up. To be honest if it is any of these guys, though, they probably took a lot more time preparing the post, hence leading to better english. So that doesn't rule him out.
I took a little bit of spanish and I am pretty sure the correct translation of shaaw's twitter is in fact: "I don't know about you... but for me Spades uses hacks" which is also evidence for shaaw being drolets.
I actually wouldn't be the slightest surprised to learn that many of the people outlines are working together on this project. they all love Luci hardcore and want to show the reason for a close match against a pretty mediocre player (who was most likely using hacks as they pointed out)
I've enjoyed this part. I really like the other people who have put forward names and the reasoning as well.
I like the reasoning that maybe a few people were involved. I find it easier to believe that someone noticed that there was something fishy going on, mentioned it to someone else who either encouraged the first person to put it on TL on put it on here themselves.
Also, I think your translation of the Spanish is spot on.
In regards to promthelax's work, it would indeed be weird if some random Joe Schmoe Spaniard with a low post count would have bothered to make a new account to make the allegations. A caster on the other hand is another story.
On June 06 2012 10:08 Promethelax wrote: I would look in the IPL TAC 3 threads about Karont3 vs Quantic and vs x6. Someone that close to the team would be a big fan in their first international team event. I'm off to be a detective in those threads, wish me luck. I'll update this post if I find anything.
Edit: Okay, with some research into the aforementioned and related threads I have found a few possibilities. These are based on post counts, join dates, country, knowledge of the Karont3 team and not being a part of the K3 organization (if it was one of them I truly believe that the TL mods would have released that information already). So there are under a half dozen possible posters, I'll give the possible reasons for each and their TL user names, I hope no one will assume they are actually the OP of the spades thread. I'm mostly doing this for fun, I have no outside knowledge of this matter. Seriously, don't belive me on my word, do your own research before you chose to point the finger at any of these guys, one of the reasons I'm leaving in all of them is to remind people how unsure I am. Even if I am right and one of these users is the poster of the allegations ALL OF THE OTHERS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
Okay, with that out of the way we'll begin. The first user I'm looking at is monx1e, he drew my attention by being the only Spaniard to post in both IPL TAC 3 threads about K3. (Qxg v K3: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339648) and K3 vs x6 (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341598). In one he talks about the improved play of AlastOr so clearly he has seen the guy play before. In the other he talks about how Lucifron is in University and isn't practicing much. Clearly these are both comments made by a dedicated fan of the team or of Spanish e-sports; he is aware of these players outside of this particular game. He also posts in the K3 announcement thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=323240) which has only seven total posts so he is clearly on top of the K3 squad. He doesn't say anything that points to him in this thread though. moving on. He posts in the Lucifron streaming thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=331379#19) saying that Luci should be featured. That wraps it up for monx1e, a big fan of K3 and he follows the team in a serious way but nothing else to point to him.
Next up is Storm-Giant, another Spaniard who posted in one of the IPL TAC threads about K3. He has a recent join date, like monx1e, and a low post count. To me these speak against either of these guys being the culprit as they don't have anything to protect in this second level anonymity. He posts in the EC cup (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337902¤tpage=6#112) supporting Lucifron. Nothing odd here since he is a fan. He posts in the K3/x6 IPL TAC thread in response to someone saying that K3 is the weakest team defending them. he is also a member of the Lucifron fan club (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337166#20) and thats about it on him. I honestly think he is the least likely of the guys I found.
Third we have Berceno who is the first of these people to have been found posting in the "[?]Spades Hacking?" thread. He comes really late to that party though (his first post is #581) where he says he has lost all respect for Spades. He is totally convinced in his first post that Spades is a hacker but so were a large majority of people posting in that thread. His post in the QxG/K3 IPL thread was what first lead me to him, he sates that Lucifron hasn't practiced since "1-5 may" which is the knowledge of either a very intent fan or someone in the know. His low post count and country of origin once again made him worth it for me to check. He is also the first of these posters to post in the original Showmatch thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339927¤tpage=2#26) since the user who requested these replays has to have watched the showmatch I couldn't help but see that as a big point in thinking he might be the poster. He has also posted in the Luci fan club without actually being a member. I don't think this really affects my position on him though, these guys are all fans of Lucifron, that is why I'm looking at them.
Now with these three out of the way we move on to the two more interesting possibilities: a Spanish caster and a German member of TL with enough posts to have an identity he would want to protect.
First we have our German friend: StarVe. In all honesty I wouldn't have looked twice at this guy if someone hadn't posted about "medevak" being a German spelling. He kept turning up in every thread I was looking at so I looked into him some more. In all honesty I don't think he is Drolets, if I was forced to guess I would go with the last guy I mention. However for the sake of completion I'll lay out the arguments in his favour. He posted twice in the Spades is Hacking thread, however his first post in that thread was number 2000 something. He didn't seem to be following it earlier on. He has 6 of the first 19 posts in the K3/x6 IPL TAC game and was clearly rooting for K3 but hey, he is European. I root for the NA teams most of the time. Regional pride and all that. Honestly I think he is only a EU fan who is excited to see K3 do well as an all EU team, hell I've been rooting for them as an all Forgiener squad and because Lucifron and the rest of K3 have been playing really well (not counting the game against QxG). I would say this guy is totally exonerated. On to the last guy I looked at and the most likely in my opinion.
Finally we have the Spanish caster and most likely poster: LorCHsc2. This guy is a prominent member of the Spanish sc2 scene and, therefore, would have reason to keep his identity secret. Of all of the TL users I have mentioned or will mention he is the one who would have the best shot at getting these replays in my opinion. He is the original poster of the IEM Spanish broadcast (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=317941#1) and has interviewed Vortix, Lucifron and AlastOr (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=328265#1) so he clearly has enough of a connection to these players to be able to request a replay from them which he could do without even alerting anyone on K3 to his suspicions; he could ask them for the replays simply to cast them, I'm sure they would say yes. LorCH also has a similar writing style to the poster of the Spades thread, Drolets, whose profile can be viewed here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=drolets He has the overuse of commas and some English misspellings which, although not conclusive, make him seem like a strong possibility. He also says, in Drolets' thread
Sorry 'bout my english :D. I speak better than i write... i think...
which agrees with the above poster who felt that Drolets spoke more than he wrote. Now, in addition to this he Streamed his analysis of the replays in Spanish, getting those stream views that people said CatZ was getting by taking this into the public eye. So there is a motive, not only to help Lucifron but also for himself. He also posted this
in the Spanish WCS qualifiers thread. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339847¤tpage=2#26) which, I'm sure you'll notice is the original source for the pictures which Drolets used in his Liquipidia edits. He posts in Vortix Streaming, Lucifron's fan club, and a lot of various Spanish related threads. I could find no instances of him using the Medevak spelling though, which would have proved it to me. In fact the only times that spelling is used on TL are in Drolets' post and posts quoting him. Seriously, that is it. LorCH also uses ellipses "..." a lot which is consistent with Drolets' post. (for example, this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342248¤tpage=120#2384)
This guy has casted a lot of Lucifron games, a lot of K3 games and has interviewed at least 3/5ths of the K3 line-up. He has the connection to get the replays and the motive to hide his Identity as he has something to protect within this community. In my opinion he is the most likely candidate and I personally would not be surprised if it turns out that he is Drolets.
tl:dr look into LorCHsc2, he looks like he had motive, ability and opportunity to to be Drolets.
Edit 2: I've found LorCH's twitter and am attempting to translate from Spanish. Interestingly enough one of the people he is tweeting to is Storm-Giant who is also the only one to post a comment on LorCH's announcement that he would be streaming the replays of Spades/Lucifron
Edit 3: The person who informed LorCH, Karont3, Lucifron and Ryo was luciusvlm who is a TL user I saw pop up in a lot of the threads I was looking into.
My finance is sick of me being an internet detective so I'm off to bed. I may do more tomorrow. I hope someone will pick up where I left off though. Good luck to all you internet investigators!
luciusvlm was the one who gave LorCH the replays! julio @luciusvlm @LorCH_SC2 replays mandada enjoy it!! mandana means sent. Okay, it seems pretty likely that it could have been this guy. I'm not sure though.
In the original thread, on the sixth page, he says
well i saw the games and was very strange about the counters,the positions and that a player like lucifron with one of the best TvT in europe(happy and kas very good aswell) cant beat easy spades
so he was suspicious when he saw the games. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342248¤tpage=6#103)
He also says
just check the catz vod, i saw the showmatch and was very strange but ehwn i saw the catz vod i think he rly hack
in the same thread, note the run-on sentence and the use of the lower case "i"
In the sc2 logos availible thread he asks for a K3 logo (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=340580¤tpage=27#538)
In the Vortix streaming thread he says
Ryo now we need a microphone and webcams ,pretty nice overlay
of particular interest to me was the use of 'we' which could infer that he is in some way related to the K3 team. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=332498¤tpage=3#53)
He is the creator of the Lucifron streaming thread and in his OP there he states the times which Luci will stream, it is obvious he has some connection to Luci. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=331379#1)
He also wrote in the IPL TAC qualifier thread that
On April 14 2012 05:45 Fusilero wrote: Liquipedia says that karont3 only has 3 players (Lucifron, vortix and lolvsxd) how can they participate in the tournament?
They have recruited two new players that will be playing in this tournament!
WIll be Alastor spanish Top gm zerg, and mikoel terran gm from spain too
This once again shows his connection to the team. He knows which payers have been picked up, this is where I first heard their names.
In LorCH's interview thread he asks: "HI question to lucifron, Why u never cheese and always try play straight up macro games,u dont like cheese/all in or maybe u think u can beat every EU player in macrogames?" clearly he thinks that Lucifron is better than the other top EU players and, by extension, NA players. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=328265¤tpage=2#26) This is totally consistent with what Drolets says in his post about being confused by a lackluster NA terran being able to take Lucifron to the brink. (paraphrased obviously)
In the DH: Valencia thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=270400¤tpage=14#265) he asks
On November 22 2011 01:42 luciusvlm wrote: aprender.nara will replace lucifron? and the clan tag is aprender or apsc2?
which clearly indicates some knowledge of the Aprender clan which Drolets updated.
This finishes part two of whose that pokemon?! Thanks for watching kids, stick around; there might be more.
On June 06 2012 10:08 Promethelax wrote: I would look in the IPL TAC 3 threads about Karont3 vs Quantic and vs x6. Someone that close to the team would be a big fan in their first international team event. I'm off to be a detective in those threads, wish me luck. I'll update this post if I find anything.
Edit: Okay, with some research into the aforementioned and related threads I have found a few possibilities. These are based on post counts, join dates, country, knowledge of the Karont3 team and not being a part of the K3 organization (if it was one of them I truly believe that the TL mods would have released that information already). So there are under a half dozen possible posters, I'll give the possible reasons for each and their TL user names, I hope no one will assume they are actually the OP of the spades thread. I'm mostly doing this for fun, I have no outside knowledge of this matter. Seriously, don't belive me on my word, do your own research before you chose to point the finger at any of these guys, one of the reasons I'm leaving in all of them is to remind people how unsure I am. Even if I am right and one of these users is the poster of the allegations ALL OF THE OTHERS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
Okay, with that out of the way we'll begin. The first user I'm looking at is monx1e, he drew my attention by being the only Spaniard to post in both IPL TAC 3 threads about K3. (Qxg v K3: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339648) and K3 vs x6 (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341598). In one he talks about the improved play of AlastOr so clearly he has seen the guy play before. In the other he talks about how Lucifron is in University and isn't practicing much. Clearly these are both comments made by a dedicated fan of the team or of Spanish e-sports; he is aware of these players outside of this particular game. He also posts in the K3 announcement thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=323240) which has only seven total posts so he is clearly on top of the K3 squad. He doesn't say anything that points to him in this thread though. moving on. He posts in the Lucifron streaming thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=331379#19) saying that Luci should be featured. That wraps it up for monx1e, a big fan of K3 and he follows the team in a serious way but nothing else to point to him.
Next up is Storm-Giant, another Spaniard who posted in one of the IPL TAC threads about K3. He has a recent join date, like monx1e, and a low post count. To me these speak against either of these guys being the culprit as they don't have anything to protect in this second level anonymity. He posts in the EC cup (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337902¤tpage=6#112) supporting Lucifron. Nothing odd here since he is a fan. He posts in the K3/x6 IPL TAC thread in response to someone saying that K3 is the weakest team defending them. he is also a member of the Lucifron fan club (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337166#20) and thats about it on him. I honestly think he is the least likely of the guys I found.
Third we have Berceno who is the first of these people to have been found posting in the "[?]Spades Hacking?" thread. He comes really late to that party though (his first post is #581) where he says he has lost all respect for Spades. He is totally convinced in his first post that Spades is a hacker but so were a large majority of people posting in that thread. His post in the QxG/K3 IPL thread was what first lead me to him, he sates that Lucifron hasn't practiced since "1-5 may" which is the knowledge of either a very intent fan or someone in the know. His low post count and country of origin once again made him worth it for me to check. He is also the first of these posters to post in the original Showmatch thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339927¤tpage=2#26) since the user who requested these replays has to have watched the showmatch I couldn't help but see that as a big point in thinking he might be the poster. He has also posted in the Luci fan club without actually being a member. I don't think this really affects my position on him though, these guys are all fans of Lucifron, that is why I'm looking at them.
Now with these three out of the way we move on to the two more interesting possibilities: a Spanish caster and a German member of TL with enough posts to have an identity he would want to protect.
First we have our German friend: StarVe. In all honesty I wouldn't have looked twice at this guy if someone hadn't posted about "medevak" being a German spelling. He kept turning up in every thread I was looking at so I looked into him some more. In all honesty I don't think he is Drolets, if I was forced to guess I would go with the last guy I mention. However for the sake of completion I'll lay out the arguments in his favour. He posted twice in the Spades is Hacking thread, however his first post in that thread was number 2000 something. He didn't seem to be following it earlier on. He has 6 of the first 19 posts in the K3/x6 IPL TAC game and was clearly rooting for K3 but hey, he is European. I root for the NA teams most of the time. Regional pride and all that. Honestly I think he is only a EU fan who is excited to see K3 do well as an all EU team, hell I've been rooting for them as an all Forgiener squad and because Lucifron and the rest of K3 have been playing really well (not counting the game against QxG). I would say this guy is totally exonerated. On to the last guy I looked at and the most likely in my opinion.
Finally we have the Spanish caster and most likely poster: LorCHsc2. This guy is a prominent member of the Spanish sc2 scene and, therefore, would have reason to keep his identity secret. Of all of the TL users I have mentioned or will mention he is the one who would have the best shot at getting these replays in my opinion. He is the original poster of the IEM Spanish broadcast (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=317941#1) and has interviewed Vortix, Lucifron and AlastOr (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=328265#1) so he clearly has enough of a connection to these players to be able to request a replay from them which he could do without even alerting anyone on K3 to his suspicions; he could ask them for the replays simply to cast them, I'm sure they would say yes. LorCH also has a similar writing style to the poster of the Spades thread, Drolets, whose profile can be viewed here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=drolets He has the overuse of commas and some English misspellings which, although not conclusive, make him seem like a strong possibility. He also says, in Drolets' thread
Sorry 'bout my english :D. I speak better than i write... i think...
which agrees with the above poster who felt that Drolets spoke more than he wrote. Now, in addition to this he Streamed his analysis of the replays in Spanish, getting those stream views that people said CatZ was getting by taking this into the public eye. So there is a motive, not only to help Lucifron but also for himself. He also posted this
On May 25 2012 02:45 LorCHsc2 wrote: Photos couldnt be added here so...
in the Spanish WCS qualifiers thread. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339847¤tpage=2#26) which, I'm sure you'll notice is the original source for the pictures which Drolets used in his Liquipidia edits. He posts in Vortix Streaming, Lucifron's fan club, and a lot of various Spanish related threads. I could find no instances of him using the Medevak spelling though, which would have proved it to me. In fact the only times that spelling is used on TL are in Drolets' post and posts quoting him. Seriously, that is it. LorCH also uses ellipses "..." a lot which is consistent with Drolets' post. (for example, this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342248¤tpage=120#2384)
This guy has casted a lot of Lucifron games, a lot of K3 games and has interviewed at least 3/5ths of the K3 line-up. He has the connection to get the replays and the motive to hide his Identity as he has something to protect within this community. In my opinion he is the most likely candidate and I personally would not be surprised if it turns out that he is Drolets.
tl:dr look into LorCHsc2, he looks like he had motive, ability and opportunity to to be Drolets.
Edit 2: I've found LorCH's twitter and am attempting to translate from Spanish. Interestingly enough one of the people he is tweeting to is Storm-Giant who is also the only one to post a comment on LorCH's announcement that he would be streaming the replays of Spades/Lucifron
Edit 3: The person who informed LorCH, Karont3, Lucifron and Ryo was luciusvlm who is a TL user I saw pop up in a lot of the threads I was looking into.
My finance is sick of me being an internet detective so I'm off to bed. I may do more tomorrow. I hope someone will pick up where I left off though. Good luck to all you internet investigators!
The whole process seems pretty simple to me. A fan of Lucifron watches the showmatch and notices that Spades's movements are really strange and that he seems to never be caught off guard in builds or troop movements. It's abnormal and could be extreme luck or hacks and the fan wants to find out. The fan then obtain the replays from Lucifron (directly or through some download link). This fan is not the highest level player, but sees things that seem like cheating to him. He feels like Lucifron got cheated and decides to document everything he thinks is cheating and then posts it. Some of his stuff doesn't hold up to scrutiny, but there is a decent amount of circumstantial evidence left.
Post gets closed down initially by a mod, but a pro player (Illusion) checks out the replays and notices that something is seriously wrong and PMs the mod with his own analysis. Post gets re-opened.
None of the stuff in the OP is the most damning stuff. If I remember right, everything in the OP could be random luck or there could be some reason for what was done. I believe even the stuff that Illusion brings to the table to re-open the thread is all circumstantial (though somewhat convincing on its own). If that's all we had to go by, then just consider this thing a witch hunt and move on, but that's not all we had.
The most damning stuff is the camera vision never going fully into the fog of war during the showmatch without a right-click. You can confirm this yourself. No player above bronze plays like that... and as we see from analyzing other clean games from Spades, he certainly doesn't play like that. Ignore every single point of questionable gameplay, ignore every lucky build, ignore every lucky scan, ignore every lucky troop movement, and just focus on that one thing. Spades was caught as red-handed as if he'd had all his stalkers selected while they individually blinked.
Spades is 100% clearly hacking, and this whistleblower doesn't need to get harassed mercilessly for doing the community a service.
On June 06 2012 10:08 Promethelax wrote: I would look in the IPL TAC 3 threads about Karont3 vs Quantic and vs x6. Someone that close to the team would be a big fan in their first international team event. I'm off to be a detective in those threads, wish me luck. I'll update this post if I find anything.
Edit: Okay, with some research into the aforementioned and related threads I have found a few possibilities. These are based on post counts, join dates, country, knowledge of the Karont3 team and not being a part of the K3 organization (if it was one of them I truly believe that the TL mods would have released that information already). So there are under a half dozen possible posters, I'll give the possible reasons for each and their TL user names, I hope no one will assume they are actually the OP of the spades thread. I'm mostly doing this for fun, I have no outside knowledge of this matter. Seriously, don't belive me on my word, do your own research before you chose to point the finger at any of these guys, one of the reasons I'm leaving in all of them is to remind people how unsure I am. Even if I am right and one of these users is the poster of the allegations ALL OF THE OTHERS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
Okay, with that out of the way we'll begin. The first user I'm looking at is monx1e, he drew my attention by being the only Spaniard to post in both IPL TAC 3 threads about K3. (Qxg v K3: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339648) and K3 vs x6 (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341598). In one he talks about the improved play of AlastOr so clearly he has seen the guy play before. In the other he talks about how Lucifron is in University and isn't practicing much. Clearly these are both comments made by a dedicated fan of the team or of Spanish e-sports; he is aware of these players outside of this particular game. He also posts in the K3 announcement thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=323240) which has only seven total posts so he is clearly on top of the K3 squad. He doesn't say anything that points to him in this thread though. moving on. He posts in the Lucifron streaming thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=331379#19) saying that Luci should be featured. That wraps it up for monx1e, a big fan of K3 and he follows the team in a serious way but nothing else to point to him.
Next up is Storm-Giant, another Spaniard who posted in one of the IPL TAC threads about K3. He has a recent join date, like monx1e, and a low post count. To me these speak against either of these guys being the culprit as they don't have anything to protect in this second level anonymity. He posts in the EC cup (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337902¤tpage=6#112) supporting Lucifron. Nothing odd here since he is a fan. He posts in the K3/x6 IPL TAC thread in response to someone saying that K3 is the weakest team defending them. he is also a member of the Lucifron fan club (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337166#20) and thats about it on him. I honestly think he is the least likely of the guys I found.
Third we have Berceno who is the first of these people to have been found posting in the "[?]Spades Hacking?" thread. He comes really late to that party though (his first post is #581) where he says he has lost all respect for Spades. He is totally convinced in his first post that Spades is a hacker but so were a large majority of people posting in that thread. His post in the QxG/K3 IPL thread was what first lead me to him, he sates that Lucifron hasn't practiced since "1-5 may" which is the knowledge of either a very intent fan or someone in the know. His low post count and country of origin once again made him worth it for me to check. He is also the first of these posters to post in the original Showmatch thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339927¤tpage=2#26) since the user who requested these replays has to have watched the showmatch I couldn't help but see that as a big point in thinking he might be the poster. He has also posted in the Luci fan club without actually being a member. I don't think this really affects my position on him though, these guys are all fans of Lucifron, that is why I'm looking at them.
Now with these three out of the way we move on to the two more interesting possibilities: a Spanish caster and a German member of TL with enough posts to have an identity he would want to protect.
First we have our German friend: StarVe. In all honesty I wouldn't have looked twice at this guy if someone hadn't posted about "medevak" being a German spelling. He kept turning up in every thread I was looking at so I looked into him some more. In all honesty I don't think he is Drolets, if I was forced to guess I would go with the last guy I mention. However for the sake of completion I'll lay out the arguments in his favour. He posted twice in the Spades is Hacking thread, however his first post in that thread was number 2000 something. He didn't seem to be following it earlier on. He has 6 of the first 19 posts in the K3/x6 IPL TAC game and was clearly rooting for K3 but hey, he is European. I root for the NA teams most of the time. Regional pride and all that. Honestly I think he is only a EU fan who is excited to see K3 do well as an all EU team, hell I've been rooting for them as an all Forgiener squad and because Lucifron and the rest of K3 have been playing really well (not counting the game against QxG). I would say this guy is totally exonerated. On to the last guy I looked at and the most likely in my opinion.
Finally we have the Spanish caster and most likely poster: LorCHsc2. This guy is a prominent member of the Spanish sc2 scene and, therefore, would have reason to keep his identity secret. Of all of the TL users I have mentioned or will mention he is the one who would have the best shot at getting these replays in my opinion. He is the original poster of the IEM Spanish broadcast (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=317941#1) and has interviewed Vortix, Lucifron and AlastOr (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=328265#1) so he clearly has enough of a connection to these players to be able to request a replay from them which he could do without even alerting anyone on K3 to his suspicions; he could ask them for the replays simply to cast them, I'm sure they would say yes. LorCH also has a similar writing style to the poster of the Spades thread, Drolets, whose profile can be viewed here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=drolets He has the overuse of commas and some English misspellings which, although not conclusive, make him seem like a strong possibility. He also says, in Drolets' thread
Sorry 'bout my english :D. I speak better than i write... i think...
which agrees with the above poster who felt that Drolets spoke more than he wrote. Now, in addition to this he Streamed his analysis of the replays in Spanish, getting those stream views that people said CatZ was getting by taking this into the public eye. So there is a motive, not only to help Lucifron but also for himself. He also posted this
On May 25 2012 02:45 LorCHsc2 wrote: Photos couldnt be added here so...
in the Spanish WCS qualifiers thread. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339847¤tpage=2#26) which, I'm sure you'll notice is the original source for the pictures which Drolets used in his Liquipidia edits. He posts in Vortix Streaming, Lucifron's fan club, and a lot of various Spanish related threads. I could find no instances of him using the Medevak spelling though, which would have proved it to me. In fact the only times that spelling is used on TL are in Drolets' post and posts quoting him. Seriously, that is it. LorCH also uses ellipses "..." a lot which is consistent with Drolets' post. (for example, this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342248¤tpage=120#2384)
This guy has casted a lot of Lucifron games, a lot of K3 games and has interviewed at least 3/5ths of the K3 line-up. He has the connection to get the replays and the motive to hide his Identity as he has something to protect within this community. In my opinion he is the most likely candidate and I personally would not be surprised if it turns out that he is Drolets.
tl:dr look into LorCHsc2, he looks like he had motive, ability and opportunity to to be Drolets.
Edit 2: I've found LorCH's twitter and am attempting to translate from Spanish. Interestingly enough one of the people he is tweeting to is Storm-Giant who is also the only one to post a comment on LorCH's announcement that he would be streaming the replays of Spades/Lucifron
Edit 3: The person who informed LorCH, Karont3, Lucifron and Ryo was luciusvlm who is a TL user I saw pop up in a lot of the threads I was looking into.
My finance is sick of me being an internet detective so I'm off to bed. I may do more tomorrow. I hope someone will pick up where I left off though. Good luck to all you internet investigators!
On January 29 2012 20:39 HolydaKing wrote: Are you really casting Zotac cup and not Go4Sc2?? Because your banner shows ESLtv which wouldn't ever show their #1 rival in business, i would like to think :D
Jajaja just a banner of my stream. Im ESL Spain caster so... but is not a business rivality
On June 06 2012 10:08 Promethelax wrote: I would look in the IPL TAC 3 threads about Karont3 vs Quantic and vs x6. Someone that close to the team would be a big fan in their first international team event. I'm off to be a detective in those threads, wish me luck. I'll update this post if I find anything.
Edit: Okay, with some research into the aforementioned and related threads I have found a few possibilities. These are based on post counts, join dates, country, knowledge of the Karont3 team and not being a part of the K3 organization (if it was one of them I truly believe that the TL mods would have released that information already). So there are under a half dozen possible posters, I'll give the possible reasons for each and their TL user names, I hope no one will assume they are actually the OP of the spades thread. I'm mostly doing this for fun, I have no outside knowledge of this matter. Seriously, don't belive me on my word, do your own research before you chose to point the finger at any of these guys, one of the reasons I'm leaving in all of them is to remind people how unsure I am. Even if I am right and one of these users is the poster of the allegations ALL OF THE OTHERS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
Okay, with that out of the way we'll begin. The first user I'm looking at is monx1e, he drew my attention by being the only Spaniard to post in both IPL TAC 3 threads about K3. (Qxg v K3: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339648) and K3 vs x6 (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341598). In one he talks about the improved play of AlastOr so clearly he has seen the guy play before. In the other he talks about how Lucifron is in University and isn't practicing much. Clearly these are both comments made by a dedicated fan of the team or of Spanish e-sports; he is aware of these players outside of this particular game. He also posts in the K3 announcement thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=323240) which has only seven total posts so he is clearly on top of the K3 squad. He doesn't say anything that points to him in this thread though. moving on. He posts in the Lucifron streaming thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=331379#19) saying that Luci should be featured. That wraps it up for monx1e, a big fan of K3 and he follows the team in a serious way but nothing else to point to him.
Next up is Storm-Giant, another Spaniard who posted in one of the IPL TAC threads about K3. He has a recent join date, like monx1e, and a low post count. To me these speak against either of these guys being the culprit as they don't have anything to protect in this second level anonymity. He posts in the EC cup (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337902¤tpage=6#112) supporting Lucifron. Nothing odd here since he is a fan. He posts in the K3/x6 IPL TAC thread in response to someone saying that K3 is the weakest team defending them. he is also a member of the Lucifron fan club (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337166#20) and thats about it on him. I honestly think he is the least likely of the guys I found.
Third we have Berceno who is the first of these people to have been found posting in the "[?]Spades Hacking?" thread. He comes really late to that party though (his first post is #581) where he says he has lost all respect for Spades. He is totally convinced in his first post that Spades is a hacker but so were a large majority of people posting in that thread. His post in the QxG/K3 IPL thread was what first lead me to him, he sates that Lucifron hasn't practiced since "1-5 may" which is the knowledge of either a very intent fan or someone in the know. His low post count and country of origin once again made him worth it for me to check. He is also the first of these posters to post in the original Showmatch thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339927¤tpage=2#26) since the user who requested these replays has to have watched the showmatch I couldn't help but see that as a big point in thinking he might be the poster. He has also posted in the Luci fan club without actually being a member. I don't think this really affects my position on him though, these guys are all fans of Lucifron, that is why I'm looking at them.
Now with these three out of the way we move on to the two more interesting possibilities: a Spanish caster and a German member of TL with enough posts to have an identity he would want to protect.
First we have our German friend: StarVe. In all honesty I wouldn't have looked twice at this guy if someone hadn't posted about "medevak" being a German spelling. He kept turning up in every thread I was looking at so I looked into him some more. In all honesty I don't think he is Drolets, if I was forced to guess I would go with the last guy I mention. However for the sake of completion I'll lay out the arguments in his favour. He posted twice in the Spades is Hacking thread, however his first post in that thread was number 2000 something. He didn't seem to be following it earlier on. He has 6 of the first 19 posts in the K3/x6 IPL TAC game and was clearly rooting for K3 but hey, he is European. I root for the NA teams most of the time. Regional pride and all that. Honestly I think he is only a EU fan who is excited to see K3 do well as an all EU team, hell I've been rooting for them as an all Forgiener squad and because Lucifron and the rest of K3 have been playing really well (not counting the game against QxG). I would say this guy is totally exonerated. On to the last guy I looked at and the most likely in my opinion.
Finally we have the Spanish caster and most likely poster: LorCHsc2. This guy is a prominent member of the Spanish sc2 scene and, therefore, would have reason to keep his identity secret. Of all of the TL users I have mentioned or will mention he is the one who would have the best shot at getting these replays in my opinion. He is the original poster of the IEM Spanish broadcast (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=317941#1) and has interviewed Vortix, Lucifron and AlastOr (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=328265#1) so he clearly has enough of a connection to these players to be able to request a replay from them which he could do without even alerting anyone on K3 to his suspicions; he could ask them for the replays simply to cast them, I'm sure they would say yes. LorCH also has a similar writing style to the poster of the Spades thread, Drolets, whose profile can be viewed here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=drolets He has the overuse of commas and some English misspellings which, although not conclusive, make him seem like a strong possibility. He also says, in Drolets' thread
Sorry 'bout my english :D. I speak better than i write... i think...
which agrees with the above poster who felt that Drolets spoke more than he wrote. Now, in addition to this he Streamed his analysis of the replays in Spanish, getting those stream views that people said CatZ was getting by taking this into the public eye. So there is a motive, not only to help Lucifron but also for himself. He also posted this
On May 25 2012 02:45 LorCHsc2 wrote: Photos couldnt be added here so...
in the Spanish WCS qualifiers thread. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339847¤tpage=2#26) which, I'm sure you'll notice is the original source for the pictures which Drolets used in his Liquipidia edits. He posts in Vortix Streaming, Lucifron's fan club, and a lot of various Spanish related threads. I could find no instances of him using the Medevak spelling though, which would have proved it to me. In fact the only times that spelling is used on TL are in Drolets' post and posts quoting him. Seriously, that is it. LorCH also uses ellipses "..." a lot which is consistent with Drolets' post. (for example, this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342248¤tpage=120#2384)
This guy has casted a lot of Lucifron games, a lot of K3 games and has interviewed at least 3/5ths of the K3 line-up. He has the connection to get the replays and the motive to hide his Identity as he has something to protect within this community. In my opinion he is the most likely candidate and I personally would not be surprised if it turns out that he is Drolets.
tl:dr look into LorCHsc2, he looks like he had motive, ability and opportunity to to be Drolets.
Edit 2: I've found LorCH's twitter and am attempting to translate from Spanish. Interestingly enough one of the people he is tweeting to is Storm-Giant who is also the only one to post a comment on LorCH's announcement that he would be streaming the replays of Spades/Lucifron
Edit 3: The person who informed LorCH, Karont3, Lucifron and Ryo was luciusvlm who is a TL user I saw pop up in a lot of the threads I was looking into.
My finance is sick of me being an internet detective so I'm off to bed. I may do more tomorrow. I hope someone will pick up where I left off though. Good luck to all you internet investigators!
On January 29 2012 20:39 HolydaKing wrote: Are you really casting Zotac cup and not Go4Sc2?? Because your banner shows ESLtv which wouldn't ever show their #1 rival in business, i would like to think :D
Jajaja just a banner of my stream. Im ESL Spain caster so... but is not a business rivality
see my update. I think luciusvlm is much more likely. Sorry I posted that before I did all the research. I just wanted to be the first to say it as my evidence all points to him.
On June 06 2012 10:08 Promethelax wrote: I would look in the IPL TAC 3 threads about Karont3 vs Quantic and vs x6. Someone that close to the team would be a big fan in their first international team event. I'm off to be a detective in those threads, wish me luck. I'll update this post if I find anything.
Edit: Okay, with some research into the aforementioned and related threads I have found a few possibilities. These are based on post counts, join dates, country, knowledge of the Karont3 team and not being a part of the K3 organization (if it was one of them I truly believe that the TL mods would have released that information already). So there are under a half dozen possible posters, I'll give the possible reasons for each and their TL user names, I hope no one will assume they are actually the OP of the spades thread. I'm mostly doing this for fun, I have no outside knowledge of this matter. Seriously, don't belive me on my word, do your own research before you chose to point the finger at any of these guys, one of the reasons I'm leaving in all of them is to remind people how unsure I am. Even if I am right and one of these users is the poster of the allegations ALL OF THE OTHERS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
Okay, with that out of the way we'll begin. The first user I'm looking at is monx1e, he drew my attention by being the only Spaniard to post in both IPL TAC 3 threads about K3. (Qxg v K3: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339648) and K3 vs x6 (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341598). In one he talks about the improved play of AlastOr so clearly he has seen the guy play before. In the other he talks about how Lucifron is in University and isn't practicing much. Clearly these are both comments made by a dedicated fan of the team or of Spanish e-sports; he is aware of these players outside of this particular game. He also posts in the K3 announcement thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=323240) which has only seven total posts so he is clearly on top of the K3 squad. He doesn't say anything that points to him in this thread though. moving on. He posts in the Lucifron streaming thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=331379#19) saying that Luci should be featured. That wraps it up for monx1e, a big fan of K3 and he follows the team in a serious way but nothing else to point to him.
Next up is Storm-Giant, another Spaniard who posted in one of the IPL TAC threads about K3. He has a recent join date, like monx1e, and a low post count. To me these speak against either of these guys being the culprit as they don't have anything to protect in this second level anonymity. He posts in the EC cup (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337902¤tpage=6#112) supporting Lucifron. Nothing odd here since he is a fan. He posts in the K3/x6 IPL TAC thread in response to someone saying that K3 is the weakest team defending them. he is also a member of the Lucifron fan club (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337166#20) and thats about it on him. I honestly think he is the least likely of the guys I found.
Third we have Berceno who is the first of these people to have been found posting in the "[?]Spades Hacking?" thread. He comes really late to that party though (his first post is #581) where he says he has lost all respect for Spades. He is totally convinced in his first post that Spades is a hacker but so were a large majority of people posting in that thread. His post in the QxG/K3 IPL thread was what first lead me to him, he sates that Lucifron hasn't practiced since "1-5 may" which is the knowledge of either a very intent fan or someone in the know. His low post count and country of origin once again made him worth it for me to check. He is also the first of these posters to post in the original Showmatch thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339927¤tpage=2#26) since the user who requested these replays has to have watched the showmatch I couldn't help but see that as a big point in thinking he might be the poster. He has also posted in the Luci fan club without actually being a member. I don't think this really affects my position on him though, these guys are all fans of Lucifron, that is why I'm looking at them.
Now with these three out of the way we move on to the two more interesting possibilities: a Spanish caster and a German member of TL with enough posts to have an identity he would want to protect.
First we have our German friend: StarVe. In all honesty I wouldn't have looked twice at this guy if someone hadn't posted about "medevak" being a German spelling. He kept turning up in every thread I was looking at so I looked into him some more. In all honesty I don't think he is Drolets, if I was forced to guess I would go with the last guy I mention. However for the sake of completion I'll lay out the arguments in his favour. He posted twice in the Spades is Hacking thread, however his first post in that thread was number 2000 something. He didn't seem to be following it earlier on. He has 6 of the first 19 posts in the K3/x6 IPL TAC game and was clearly rooting for K3 but hey, he is European. I root for the NA teams most of the time. Regional pride and all that. Honestly I think he is only a EU fan who is excited to see K3 do well as an all EU team, hell I've been rooting for them as an all Forgiener squad and because Lucifron and the rest of K3 have been playing really well (not counting the game against QxG). I would say this guy is totally exonerated. On to the last guy I looked at and the most likely in my opinion.
Finally we have the Spanish caster and most likely poster: LorCHsc2. This guy is a prominent member of the Spanish sc2 scene and, therefore, would have reason to keep his identity secret. Of all of the TL users I have mentioned or will mention he is the one who would have the best shot at getting these replays in my opinion. He is the original poster of the IEM Spanish broadcast (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=317941#1) and has interviewed Vortix, Lucifron and AlastOr (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=328265#1) so he clearly has enough of a connection to these players to be able to request a replay from them which he could do without even alerting anyone on K3 to his suspicions; he could ask them for the replays simply to cast them, I'm sure they would say yes. LorCH also has a similar writing style to the poster of the Spades thread, Drolets, whose profile can be viewed here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=drolets He has the overuse of commas and some English misspellings which, although not conclusive, make him seem like a strong possibility. He also says, in Drolets' thread
Sorry 'bout my english :D. I speak better than i write... i think...
which agrees with the above poster who felt that Drolets spoke more than he wrote. Now, in addition to this he Streamed his analysis of the replays in Spanish, getting those stream views that people said CatZ was getting by taking this into the public eye. So there is a motive, not only to help Lucifron but also for himself. He also posted this
On May 25 2012 02:45 LorCHsc2 wrote: Photos couldnt be added here so...
in the Spanish WCS qualifiers thread. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339847¤tpage=2#26) which, I'm sure you'll notice is the original source for the pictures which Drolets used in his Liquipidia edits. He posts in Vortix Streaming, Lucifron's fan club, and a lot of various Spanish related threads. I could find no instances of him using the Medevak spelling though, which would have proved it to me. In fact the only times that spelling is used on TL are in Drolets' post and posts quoting him. Seriously, that is it. LorCH also uses ellipses "..." a lot which is consistent with Drolets' post. (for example, this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342248¤tpage=120#2384)
This guy has casted a lot of Lucifron games, a lot of K3 games and has interviewed at least 3/5ths of the K3 line-up. He has the connection to get the replays and the motive to hide his Identity as he has something to protect within this community. In my opinion he is the most likely candidate and I personally would not be surprised if it turns out that he is Drolets.
tl:dr look into LorCHsc2, he looks like he had motive, ability and opportunity to to be Drolets.
Edit 2: I've found LorCH's twitter and am attempting to translate from Spanish. Interestingly enough one of the people he is tweeting to is Storm-Giant who is also the only one to post a comment on LorCH's announcement that he would be streaming the replays of Spades/Lucifron
Edit 3: The person who informed LorCH, Karont3, Lucifron and Ryo was luciusvlm who is a TL user I saw pop up in a lot of the threads I was looking into.
My finance is sick of me being an internet detective so I'm off to bed. I may do more tomorrow. I hope someone will pick up where I left off though. Good luck to all you internet investigators!
On January 29 2012 20:39 HolydaKing wrote: Are you really casting Zotac cup and not Go4Sc2?? Because your banner shows ESLtv which wouldn't ever show their #1 rival in business, i would like to think :D
Jajaja just a banner of my stream. Im ESL Spain caster so... but is not a business rivality
see my update. I think luciusvlm is much more likely. Sorry I posted that before I did all the research. I just wanted to be the first to say it as my evidence all points to him.
On June 06 2012 10:08 Promethelax wrote: I would look in the IPL TAC 3 threads about Karont3 vs Quantic and vs x6. Someone that close to the team would be a big fan in their first international team event. I'm off to be a detective in those threads, wish me luck. I'll update this post if I find anything.
Edit: Okay, with some research into the aforementioned and related threads I have found a few possibilities. These are based on post counts, join dates, country, knowledge of the Karont3 team and not being a part of the K3 organization (if it was one of them I truly believe that the TL mods would have released that information already). So there are under a half dozen possible posters, I'll give the possible reasons for each and their TL user names, I hope no one will assume they are actually the OP of the spades thread. I'm mostly doing this for fun, I have no outside knowledge of this matter. Seriously, don't belive me on my word, do your own research before you chose to point the finger at any of these guys, one of the reasons I'm leaving in all of them is to remind people how unsure I am. Even if I am right and one of these users is the poster of the allegations ALL OF THE OTHERS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
Okay, with that out of the way we'll begin. The first user I'm looking at is monx1e, he drew my attention by being the only Spaniard to post in both IPL TAC 3 threads about K3. (Qxg v K3: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339648) and K3 vs x6 (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341598). In one he talks about the improved play of AlastOr so clearly he has seen the guy play before. In the other he talks about how Lucifron is in University and isn't practicing much. Clearly these are both comments made by a dedicated fan of the team or of Spanish e-sports; he is aware of these players outside of this particular game. He also posts in the K3 announcement thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=323240) which has only seven total posts so he is clearly on top of the K3 squad. He doesn't say anything that points to him in this thread though. moving on. He posts in the Lucifron streaming thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=331379#19) saying that Luci should be featured. That wraps it up for monx1e, a big fan of K3 and he follows the team in a serious way but nothing else to point to him.
Next up is Storm-Giant, another Spaniard who posted in one of the IPL TAC threads about K3. He has a recent join date, like monx1e, and a low post count. To me these speak against either of these guys being the culprit as they don't have anything to protect in this second level anonymity. He posts in the EC cup (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337902¤tpage=6#112) supporting Lucifron. Nothing odd here since he is a fan. He posts in the K3/x6 IPL TAC thread in response to someone saying that K3 is the weakest team defending them. he is also a member of the Lucifron fan club (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337166#20) and thats about it on him. I honestly think he is the least likely of the guys I found.
Third we have Berceno who is the first of these people to have been found posting in the "[?]Spades Hacking?" thread. He comes really late to that party though (his first post is #581) where he says he has lost all respect for Spades. He is totally convinced in his first post that Spades is a hacker but so were a large majority of people posting in that thread. His post in the QxG/K3 IPL thread was what first lead me to him, he sates that Lucifron hasn't practiced since "1-5 may" which is the knowledge of either a very intent fan or someone in the know. His low post count and country of origin once again made him worth it for me to check. He is also the first of these posters to post in the original Showmatch thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339927¤tpage=2#26) since the user who requested these replays has to have watched the showmatch I couldn't help but see that as a big point in thinking he might be the poster. He has also posted in the Luci fan club without actually being a member. I don't think this really affects my position on him though, these guys are all fans of Lucifron, that is why I'm looking at them.
Now with these three out of the way we move on to the two more interesting possibilities: a Spanish caster and a German member of TL with enough posts to have an identity he would want to protect.
First we have our German friend: StarVe. In all honesty I wouldn't have looked twice at this guy if someone hadn't posted about "medevak" being a German spelling. He kept turning up in every thread I was looking at so I looked into him some more. In all honesty I don't think he is Drolets, if I was forced to guess I would go with the last guy I mention. However for the sake of completion I'll lay out the arguments in his favour. He posted twice in the Spades is Hacking thread, however his first post in that thread was number 2000 something. He didn't seem to be following it earlier on. He has 6 of the first 19 posts in the K3/x6 IPL TAC game and was clearly rooting for K3 but hey, he is European. I root for the NA teams most of the time. Regional pride and all that. Honestly I think he is only a EU fan who is excited to see K3 do well as an all EU team, hell I've been rooting for them as an all Forgiener squad and because Lucifron and the rest of K3 have been playing really well (not counting the game against QxG). I would say this guy is totally exonerated. On to the last guy I looked at and the most likely in my opinion.
Finally we have the Spanish caster and most likely poster: LorCHsc2. This guy is a prominent member of the Spanish sc2 scene and, therefore, would have reason to keep his identity secret. Of all of the TL users I have mentioned or will mention he is the one who would have the best shot at getting these replays in my opinion. He is the original poster of the IEM Spanish broadcast (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=317941#1) and has interviewed Vortix, Lucifron and AlastOr (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=328265#1) so he clearly has enough of a connection to these players to be able to request a replay from them which he could do without even alerting anyone on K3 to his suspicions; he could ask them for the replays simply to cast them, I'm sure they would say yes. LorCH also has a similar writing style to the poster of the Spades thread, Drolets, whose profile can be viewed here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=drolets He has the overuse of commas and some English misspellings which, although not conclusive, make him seem like a strong possibility. He also says, in Drolets' thread
Sorry 'bout my english :D. I speak better than i write... i think...
which agrees with the above poster who felt that Drolets spoke more than he wrote. Now, in addition to this he Streamed his analysis of the replays in Spanish, getting those stream views that people said CatZ was getting by taking this into the public eye. So there is a motive, not only to help Lucifron but also for himself. He also posted this
On May 25 2012 02:45 LorCHsc2 wrote: Photos couldnt be added here so...
in the Spanish WCS qualifiers thread. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339847¤tpage=2#26) which, I'm sure you'll notice is the original source for the pictures which Drolets used in his Liquipidia edits. He posts in Vortix Streaming, Lucifron's fan club, and a lot of various Spanish related threads. I could find no instances of him using the Medevak spelling though, which would have proved it to me. In fact the only times that spelling is used on TL are in Drolets' post and posts quoting him. Seriously, that is it. LorCH also uses ellipses "..." a lot which is consistent with Drolets' post. (for example, this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342248¤tpage=120#2384)
This guy has casted a lot of Lucifron games, a lot of K3 games and has interviewed at least 3/5ths of the K3 line-up. He has the connection to get the replays and the motive to hide his Identity as he has something to protect within this community. In my opinion he is the most likely candidate and I personally would not be surprised if it turns out that he is Drolets.
tl:dr look into LorCHsc2, he looks like he had motive, ability and opportunity to to be Drolets.
Edit 2: I've found LorCH's twitter and am attempting to translate from Spanish. Interestingly enough one of the people he is tweeting to is Storm-Giant who is also the only one to post a comment on LorCH's announcement that he would be streaming the replays of Spades/Lucifron
Edit 3: The person who informed LorCH, Karont3, Lucifron and Ryo was luciusvlm who is a TL user I saw pop up in a lot of the threads I was looking into.
My finance is sick of me being an internet detective so I'm off to bed. I may do more tomorrow. I hope someone will pick up where I left off though. Good luck to all you internet investigators!
On January 29 2012 20:39 HolydaKing wrote: Are you really casting Zotac cup and not Go4Sc2?? Because your banner shows ESLtv which wouldn't ever show their #1 rival in business, i would like to think :D
Jajaja just a banner of my stream. Im ESL Spain caster so... but is not a business rivality
see my update. I think luciusvlm is much more likely. Sorry I posted that before I did all the research. I just wanted to be the first to say it as my evidence all points to him.
He seems particularly interested in the whole hacking saga.
Particularly:
@LorCH_SC2 @Karont3_Club @Karont3_Ryo @Karont3LucifroN evidencias de Spades usando maphack http://tiny.cc/pn9dfw
Translates to:
Karont3_Club @ @ @ LorCH_SC2 Karont3_Ryo @ Karont3LucifroN evidence of Spades using maphack http://tiny.cc/pn9dfw
Yeah, that was what got me looking into his twiting. I mentioned it obliquely in my post
Edit 3: The person who informed LorCH, Karont3, Lucifron and Ryo was luciusvlm who is a TL user I saw pop up in a lot of the threads I was looking into.
That twit lead to me looking into him further.He was my 6th suspect but I found him as I was wrapping up the LorCH huunt and my fiance was getting really annoyed by my hours on TL instead of hanging out with her so I left it. Now she is asleep though so I came back to it.
On June 06 2012 10:08 Promethelax wrote: I would look in the IPL TAC 3 threads about Karont3 vs Quantic and vs x6. Someone that close to the team would be a big fan in their first international team event. I'm off to be a detective in those threads, wish me luck. I'll update this post if I find anything.
Edit: Okay, with some research into the aforementioned and related threads I have found a few possibilities. These are based on post counts, join dates, country, knowledge of the Karont3 team and not being a part of the K3 organization (if it was one of them I truly believe that the TL mods would have released that information already). So there are under a half dozen possible posters, I'll give the possible reasons for each and their TL user names, I hope no one will assume they are actually the OP of the spades thread. I'm mostly doing this for fun, I have no outside knowledge of this matter. Seriously, don't belive me on my word, do your own research before you chose to point the finger at any of these guys, one of the reasons I'm leaving in all of them is to remind people how unsure I am. Even if I am right and one of these users is the poster of the allegations ALL OF THE OTHERS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
Okay, with that out of the way we'll begin. The first user I'm looking at is monx1e, he drew my attention by being the only Spaniard to post in both IPL TAC 3 threads about K3. (Qxg v K3: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339648) and K3 vs x6 (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341598). In one he talks about the improved play of AlastOr so clearly he has seen the guy play before. In the other he talks about how Lucifron is in University and isn't practicing much. Clearly these are both comments made by a dedicated fan of the team or of Spanish e-sports; he is aware of these players outside of this particular game. He also posts in the K3 announcement thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=323240) which has only seven total posts so he is clearly on top of the K3 squad. He doesn't say anything that points to him in this thread though. moving on. He posts in the Lucifron streaming thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=331379#19) saying that Luci should be featured. That wraps it up for monx1e, a big fan of K3 and he follows the team in a serious way but nothing else to point to him.
Next up is Storm-Giant, another Spaniard who posted in one of the IPL TAC threads about K3. He has a recent join date, like monx1e, and a low post count. To me these speak against either of these guys being the culprit as they don't have anything to protect in this second level anonymity. He posts in the EC cup (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337902¤tpage=6#112) supporting Lucifron. Nothing odd here since he is a fan. He posts in the K3/x6 IPL TAC thread in response to someone saying that K3 is the weakest team defending them. he is also a member of the Lucifron fan club (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337166#20) and thats about it on him. I honestly think he is the least likely of the guys I found.
Third we have Berceno who is the first of these people to have been found posting in the "[?]Spades Hacking?" thread. He comes really late to that party though (his first post is #581) where he says he has lost all respect for Spades. He is totally convinced in his first post that Spades is a hacker but so were a large majority of people posting in that thread. His post in the QxG/K3 IPL thread was what first lead me to him, he sates that Lucifron hasn't practiced since "1-5 may" which is the knowledge of either a very intent fan or someone in the know. His low post count and country of origin once again made him worth it for me to check. He is also the first of these posters to post in the original Showmatch thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339927¤tpage=2#26) since the user who requested these replays has to have watched the showmatch I couldn't help but see that as a big point in thinking he might be the poster. He has also posted in the Luci fan club without actually being a member. I don't think this really affects my position on him though, these guys are all fans of Lucifron, that is why I'm looking at them.
Now with these three out of the way we move on to the two more interesting possibilities: a Spanish caster and a German member of TL with enough posts to have an identity he would want to protect.
First we have our German friend: StarVe. In all honesty I wouldn't have looked twice at this guy if someone hadn't posted about "medevak" being a German spelling. He kept turning up in every thread I was looking at so I looked into him some more. In all honesty I don't think he is Drolets, if I was forced to guess I would go with the last guy I mention. However for the sake of completion I'll lay out the arguments in his favour. He posted twice in the Spades is Hacking thread, however his first post in that thread was number 2000 something. He didn't seem to be following it earlier on. He has 6 of the first 19 posts in the K3/x6 IPL TAC game and was clearly rooting for K3 but hey, he is European. I root for the NA teams most of the time. Regional pride and all that. Honestly I think he is only a EU fan who is excited to see K3 do well as an all EU team, hell I've been rooting for them as an all Forgiener squad and because Lucifron and the rest of K3 have been playing really well (not counting the game against QxG). I would say this guy is totally exonerated. On to the last guy I looked at and the most likely in my opinion.
Finally we have the Spanish caster and most likely poster: LorCHsc2. This guy is a prominent member of the Spanish sc2 scene and, therefore, would have reason to keep his identity secret. Of all of the TL users I have mentioned or will mention he is the one who would have the best shot at getting these replays in my opinion. He is the original poster of the IEM Spanish broadcast (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=317941#1) and has interviewed Vortix, Lucifron and AlastOr (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=328265#1) so he clearly has enough of a connection to these players to be able to request a replay from them which he could do without even alerting anyone on K3 to his suspicions; he could ask them for the replays simply to cast them, I'm sure they would say yes. LorCH also has a similar writing style to the poster of the Spades thread, Drolets, whose profile can be viewed here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=drolets He has the overuse of commas and some English misspellings which, although not conclusive, make him seem like a strong possibility. He also says, in Drolets' thread
Sorry 'bout my english :D. I speak better than i write... i think...
which agrees with the above poster who felt that Drolets spoke more than he wrote. Now, in addition to this he Streamed his analysis of the replays in Spanish, getting those stream views that people said CatZ was getting by taking this into the public eye. So there is a motive, not only to help Lucifron but also for himself. He also posted this
On May 25 2012 02:45 LorCHsc2 wrote: Photos couldnt be added here so...
in the Spanish WCS qualifiers thread. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339847¤tpage=2#26) which, I'm sure you'll notice is the original source for the pictures which Drolets used in his Liquipidia edits. He posts in Vortix Streaming, Lucifron's fan club, and a lot of various Spanish related threads. I could find no instances of him using the Medevak spelling though, which would have proved it to me. In fact the only times that spelling is used on TL are in Drolets' post and posts quoting him. Seriously, that is it. LorCH also uses ellipses "..." a lot which is consistent with Drolets' post. (for example, this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342248¤tpage=120#2384)
This guy has casted a lot of Lucifron games, a lot of K3 games and has interviewed at least 3/5ths of the K3 line-up. He has the connection to get the replays and the motive to hide his Identity as he has something to protect within this community. In my opinion he is the most likely candidate and I personally would not be surprised if it turns out that he is Drolets.
tl:dr look into LorCHsc2, he looks like he had motive, ability and opportunity to to be Drolets.
Edit 2: I've found LorCH's twitter and am attempting to translate from Spanish. Interestingly enough one of the people he is tweeting to is Storm-Giant who is also the only one to post a comment on LorCH's announcement that he would be streaming the replays of Spades/Lucifron
Edit 3: The person who informed LorCH, Karont3, Lucifron and Ryo was luciusvlm who is a TL user I saw pop up in a lot of the threads I was looking into.
My finance is sick of me being an internet detective so I'm off to bed. I may do more tomorrow. I hope someone will pick up where I left off though. Good luck to all you internet investigators!
On January 29 2012 20:39 HolydaKing wrote: Are you really casting Zotac cup and not Go4Sc2?? Because your banner shows ESLtv which wouldn't ever show their #1 rival in business, i would like to think :D
Jajaja just a banner of my stream. Im ESL Spain caster so... but is not a business rivality
see my update. I think luciusvlm is much more likely. Sorry I posted that before I did all the research. I just wanted to be the first to say it as my evidence all points to him.
His replays sent tweet is regarding something else. Pull down the conversation leading to that tweet and you'll see it's just him sending replays of himself to have them cast by LorCH for whatever show he does.
On June 06 2012 10:08 Promethelax wrote: I would look in the IPL TAC 3 threads about Karont3 vs Quantic and vs x6. Someone that close to the team would be a big fan in their first international team event. I'm off to be a detective in those threads, wish me luck. I'll update this post if I find anything.
Edit: Okay, with some research into the aforementioned and related threads I have found a few possibilities. These are based on post counts, join dates, country, knowledge of the Karont3 team and not being a part of the K3 organization (if it was one of them I truly believe that the TL mods would have released that information already). So there are under a half dozen possible posters, I'll give the possible reasons for each and their TL user names, I hope no one will assume they are actually the OP of the spades thread. I'm mostly doing this for fun, I have no outside knowledge of this matter. Seriously, don't belive me on my word, do your own research before you chose to point the finger at any of these guys, one of the reasons I'm leaving in all of them is to remind people how unsure I am. Even if I am right and one of these users is the poster of the allegations ALL OF THE OTHERS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
Okay, with that out of the way we'll begin. The first user I'm looking at is monx1e, he drew my attention by being the only Spaniard to post in both IPL TAC 3 threads about K3. (Qxg v K3: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339648) and K3 vs x6 (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341598). In one he talks about the improved play of AlastOr so clearly he has seen the guy play before. In the other he talks about how Lucifron is in University and isn't practicing much. Clearly these are both comments made by a dedicated fan of the team or of Spanish e-sports; he is aware of these players outside of this particular game. He also posts in the K3 announcement thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=323240) which has only seven total posts so he is clearly on top of the K3 squad. He doesn't say anything that points to him in this thread though. moving on. He posts in the Lucifron streaming thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=331379#19) saying that Luci should be featured. That wraps it up for monx1e, a big fan of K3 and he follows the team in a serious way but nothing else to point to him.
Next up is Storm-Giant, another Spaniard who posted in one of the IPL TAC threads about K3. He has a recent join date, like monx1e, and a low post count. To me these speak against either of these guys being the culprit as they don't have anything to protect in this second level anonymity. He posts in the EC cup (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337902¤tpage=6#112) supporting Lucifron. Nothing odd here since he is a fan. He posts in the K3/x6 IPL TAC thread in response to someone saying that K3 is the weakest team defending them. he is also a member of the Lucifron fan club (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337166#20) and thats about it on him. I honestly think he is the least likely of the guys I found.
Third we have Berceno who is the first of these people to have been found posting in the "[?]Spades Hacking?" thread. He comes really late to that party though (his first post is #581) where he says he has lost all respect for Spades. He is totally convinced in his first post that Spades is a hacker but so were a large majority of people posting in that thread. His post in the QxG/K3 IPL thread was what first lead me to him, he sates that Lucifron hasn't practiced since "1-5 may" which is the knowledge of either a very intent fan or someone in the know. His low post count and country of origin once again made him worth it for me to check. He is also the first of these posters to post in the original Showmatch thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339927¤tpage=2#26) since the user who requested these replays has to have watched the showmatch I couldn't help but see that as a big point in thinking he might be the poster. He has also posted in the Luci fan club without actually being a member. I don't think this really affects my position on him though, these guys are all fans of Lucifron, that is why I'm looking at them.
Now with these three out of the way we move on to the two more interesting possibilities: a Spanish caster and a German member of TL with enough posts to have an identity he would want to protect.
First we have our German friend: StarVe. In all honesty I wouldn't have looked twice at this guy if someone hadn't posted about "medevak" being a German spelling. He kept turning up in every thread I was looking at so I looked into him some more. In all honesty I don't think he is Drolets, if I was forced to guess I would go with the last guy I mention. However for the sake of completion I'll lay out the arguments in his favour. He posted twice in the Spades is Hacking thread, however his first post in that thread was number 2000 something. He didn't seem to be following it earlier on. He has 6 of the first 19 posts in the K3/x6 IPL TAC game and was clearly rooting for K3 but hey, he is European. I root for the NA teams most of the time. Regional pride and all that. Honestly I think he is only a EU fan who is excited to see K3 do well as an all EU team, hell I've been rooting for them as an all Forgiener squad and because Lucifron and the rest of K3 have been playing really well (not counting the game against QxG). I would say this guy is totally exonerated. On to the last guy I looked at and the most likely in my opinion.
Finally we have the Spanish caster and most likely poster: LorCHsc2. This guy is a prominent member of the Spanish sc2 scene and, therefore, would have reason to keep his identity secret. Of all of the TL users I have mentioned or will mention he is the one who would have the best shot at getting these replays in my opinion. He is the original poster of the IEM Spanish broadcast (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=317941#1) and has interviewed Vortix, Lucifron and AlastOr (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=328265#1) so he clearly has enough of a connection to these players to be able to request a replay from them which he could do without even alerting anyone on K3 to his suspicions; he could ask them for the replays simply to cast them, I'm sure they would say yes. LorCH also has a similar writing style to the poster of the Spades thread, Drolets, whose profile can be viewed here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=drolets He has the overuse of commas and some English misspellings which, although not conclusive, make him seem like a strong possibility. He also says, in Drolets' thread
Sorry 'bout my english :D. I speak better than i write... i think...
which agrees with the above poster who felt that Drolets spoke more than he wrote. Now, in addition to this he Streamed his analysis of the replays in Spanish, getting those stream views that people said CatZ was getting by taking this into the public eye. So there is a motive, not only to help Lucifron but also for himself. He also posted this
On May 25 2012 02:45 LorCHsc2 wrote: Photos couldnt be added here so...
in the Spanish WCS qualifiers thread. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339847¤tpage=2#26) which, I'm sure you'll notice is the original source for the pictures which Drolets used in his Liquipidia edits. He posts in Vortix Streaming, Lucifron's fan club, and a lot of various Spanish related threads. I could find no instances of him using the Medevak spelling though, which would have proved it to me. In fact the only times that spelling is used on TL are in Drolets' post and posts quoting him. Seriously, that is it. LorCH also uses ellipses "..." a lot which is consistent with Drolets' post. (for example, this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342248¤tpage=120#2384)
This guy has casted a lot of Lucifron games, a lot of K3 games and has interviewed at least 3/5ths of the K3 line-up. He has the connection to get the replays and the motive to hide his Identity as he has something to protect within this community. In my opinion he is the most likely candidate and I personally would not be surprised if it turns out that he is Drolets.
tl:dr look into LorCHsc2, he looks like he had motive, ability and opportunity to to be Drolets.
Edit 2: I've found LorCH's twitter and am attempting to translate from Spanish. Interestingly enough one of the people he is tweeting to is Storm-Giant who is also the only one to post a comment on LorCH's announcement that he would be streaming the replays of Spades/Lucifron
Edit 3: The person who informed LorCH, Karont3, Lucifron and Ryo was luciusvlm who is a TL user I saw pop up in a lot of the threads I was looking into.
My finance is sick of me being an internet detective so I'm off to bed. I may do more tomorrow. I hope someone will pick up where I left off though. Good luck to all you internet investigators!
On January 29 2012 20:39 HolydaKing wrote: Are you really casting Zotac cup and not Go4Sc2?? Because your banner shows ESLtv which wouldn't ever show their #1 rival in business, i would like to think :D
Jajaja just a banner of my stream. Im ESL Spain caster so... but is not a business rivality
see my update. I think luciusvlm is much more likely. Sorry I posted that before I did all the research. I just wanted to be the first to say it as my evidence all points to him.
His replays sent tweet is regarding something else. Pull down the conversation leading to that tweet and you'll see it's just him sending replays of himself to have them cast by LorCH for whatever show he does.
That is definitely a possibility and i should have seen that but he has used the reply feature of twitter before when in a conversation and in this case he didn't, it was that single twit saying that they had been sent. It could have been other replays though and not the Spades/Lucifron ones. Good catch, I'm not sure they weren't the replays from this event though.
Thanks for looking through my research. You too CursivE and you petered, and everyone else.
On June 06 2012 10:08 Promethelax wrote: I would look in the IPL TAC 3 threads about Karont3 vs Quantic and vs x6. Someone that close to the team would be a big fan in their first international team event. I'm off to be a detective in those threads, wish me luck. I'll update this post if I find anything.
Edit: Okay, with some research into the aforementioned and related threads I have found a few possibilities. These are based on post counts, join dates, country, knowledge of the Karont3 team and not being a part of the K3 organization (if it was one of them I truly believe that the TL mods would have released that information already). So there are under a half dozen possible posters, I'll give the possible reasons for each and their TL user names, I hope no one will assume they are actually the OP of the spades thread. I'm mostly doing this for fun, I have no outside knowledge of this matter. Seriously, don't belive me on my word, do your own research before you chose to point the finger at any of these guys, one of the reasons I'm leaving in all of them is to remind people how unsure I am. Even if I am right and one of these users is the poster of the allegations ALL OF THE OTHERS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
Okay, with that out of the way we'll begin. The first user I'm looking at is monx1e, he drew my attention by being the only Spaniard to post in both IPL TAC 3 threads about K3. (Qxg v K3: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339648) and K3 vs x6 (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341598). In one he talks about the improved play of AlastOr so clearly he has seen the guy play before. In the other he talks about how Lucifron is in University and isn't practicing much. Clearly these are both comments made by a dedicated fan of the team or of Spanish e-sports; he is aware of these players outside of this particular game. He also posts in the K3 announcement thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=323240) which has only seven total posts so he is clearly on top of the K3 squad. He doesn't say anything that points to him in this thread though. moving on. He posts in the Lucifron streaming thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=331379#19) saying that Luci should be featured. That wraps it up for monx1e, a big fan of K3 and he follows the team in a serious way but nothing else to point to him.
Next up is Storm-Giant, another Spaniard who posted in one of the IPL TAC threads about K3. He has a recent join date, like monx1e, and a low post count. To me these speak against either of these guys being the culprit as they don't have anything to protect in this second level anonymity. He posts in the EC cup (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337902¤tpage=6#112) supporting Lucifron. Nothing odd here since he is a fan. He posts in the K3/x6 IPL TAC thread in response to someone saying that K3 is the weakest team defending them. he is also a member of the Lucifron fan club (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337166#20) and thats about it on him. I honestly think he is the least likely of the guys I found.
Third we have Berceno who is the first of these people to have been found posting in the "[?]Spades Hacking?" thread. He comes really late to that party though (his first post is #581) where he says he has lost all respect for Spades. He is totally convinced in his first post that Spades is a hacker but so were a large majority of people posting in that thread. His post in the QxG/K3 IPL thread was what first lead me to him, he sates that Lucifron hasn't practiced since "1-5 may" which is the knowledge of either a very intent fan or someone in the know. His low post count and country of origin once again made him worth it for me to check. He is also the first of these posters to post in the original Showmatch thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339927¤tpage=2#26) since the user who requested these replays has to have watched the showmatch I couldn't help but see that as a big point in thinking he might be the poster. He has also posted in the Luci fan club without actually being a member. I don't think this really affects my position on him though, these guys are all fans of Lucifron, that is why I'm looking at them.
Now with these three out of the way we move on to the two more interesting possibilities: a Spanish caster and a German member of TL with enough posts to have an identity he would want to protect.
First we have our German friend: StarVe. In all honesty I wouldn't have looked twice at this guy if someone hadn't posted about "medevak" being a German spelling. He kept turning up in every thread I was looking at so I looked into him some more. In all honesty I don't think he is Drolets, if I was forced to guess I would go with the last guy I mention. However for the sake of completion I'll lay out the arguments in his favour. He posted twice in the Spades is Hacking thread, however his first post in that thread was number 2000 something. He didn't seem to be following it earlier on. He has 6 of the first 19 posts in the K3/x6 IPL TAC game and was clearly rooting for K3 but hey, he is European. I root for the NA teams most of the time. Regional pride and all that. Honestly I think he is only a EU fan who is excited to see K3 do well as an all EU team, hell I've been rooting for them as an all Forgiener squad and because Lucifron and the rest of K3 have been playing really well (not counting the game against QxG). I would say this guy is totally exonerated. On to the last guy I looked at and the most likely in my opinion.
Finally we have the Spanish caster and most likely poster: LorCHsc2. This guy is a prominent member of the Spanish sc2 scene and, therefore, would have reason to keep his identity secret. Of all of the TL users I have mentioned or will mention he is the one who would have the best shot at getting these replays in my opinion. He is the original poster of the IEM Spanish broadcast (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=317941#1) and has interviewed Vortix, Lucifron and AlastOr (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=328265#1) so he clearly has enough of a connection to these players to be able to request a replay from them which he could do without even alerting anyone on K3 to his suspicions; he could ask them for the replays simply to cast them, I'm sure they would say yes. LorCH also has a similar writing style to the poster of the Spades thread, Drolets, whose profile can be viewed here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=drolets He has the overuse of commas and some English misspellings which, although not conclusive, make him seem like a strong possibility. He also says, in Drolets' thread
Sorry 'bout my english :D. I speak better than i write... i think...
which agrees with the above poster who felt that Drolets spoke more than he wrote. Now, in addition to this he Streamed his analysis of the replays in Spanish, getting those stream views that people said CatZ was getting by taking this into the public eye. So there is a motive, not only to help Lucifron but also for himself. He also posted this
On May 25 2012 02:45 LorCHsc2 wrote: Photos couldnt be added here so...
in the Spanish WCS qualifiers thread. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339847¤tpage=2#26) which, I'm sure you'll notice is the original source for the pictures which Drolets used in his Liquipidia edits. He posts in Vortix Streaming, Lucifron's fan club, and a lot of various Spanish related threads. I could find no instances of him using the Medevak spelling though, which would have proved it to me. In fact the only times that spelling is used on TL are in Drolets' post and posts quoting him. Seriously, that is it. LorCH also uses ellipses "..." a lot which is consistent with Drolets' post. (for example, this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342248¤tpage=120#2384)
This guy has casted a lot of Lucifron games, a lot of K3 games and has interviewed at least 3/5ths of the K3 line-up. He has the connection to get the replays and the motive to hide his Identity as he has something to protect within this community. In my opinion he is the most likely candidate and I personally would not be surprised if it turns out that he is Drolets.
tl:dr look into LorCHsc2, he looks like he had motive, ability and opportunity to to be Drolets.
Edit 2: I've found LorCH's twitter and am attempting to translate from Spanish. Interestingly enough one of the people he is tweeting to is Storm-Giant who is also the only one to post a comment on LorCH's announcement that he would be streaming the replays of Spades/Lucifron
Edit 3: The person who informed LorCH, Karont3, Lucifron and Ryo was luciusvlm who is a TL user I saw pop up in a lot of the threads I was looking into.
My finance is sick of me being an internet detective so I'm off to bed. I may do more tomorrow. I hope someone will pick up where I left off though. Good luck to all you internet investigators!
On January 29 2012 20:39 HolydaKing wrote: Are you really casting Zotac cup and not Go4Sc2?? Because your banner shows ESLtv which wouldn't ever show their #1 rival in business, i would like to think :D
Jajaja just a banner of my stream. Im ESL Spain caster so... but is not a business rivality
see my update. I think luciusvlm is much more likely. Sorry I posted that before I did all the research. I just wanted to be the first to say it as my evidence all points to him.
His replays sent tweet is regarding something else. Pull down the conversation leading to that tweet and you'll see it's just him sending replays of himself to have them cast by LorCH for whatever show he does.
That is definitely a possibility and i should have seen that but he has used the reply feature of twitter before when in a conversation and in this case he didn't, it was that single twit saying that they had been sent. It could have been other replays though and not the Spades/Lucifron ones. Good catch, I'm not sure they weren't the replays from this event though.
Thanks for looking through my research. You too CursivE and you petered, and everyone else.
Gheed: sorry for stealing your blog dude.
<3 I enjoyed it thoroughly. Let's see if we find out who it is!
what does it mean? Please translate for us. Thanks, I'm glad you are into it. Please feel free to add anything you can find, I'm totally interested in finding this out, I'm having a great time being a detective and I hope everyone else is too. haha oh man, those memes.
On June 06 2012 14:42 RenSC2 wrote: Spades is 100% clearly hacking, and this whistleblower doesn't need to get harassed mercilessly for doing the community a service.
I don't want the accuser harassed at all, let alone mercilessly, but I think knowing who it is is fair game and I am more impressed with the evidence in this thread than I am with the 'Spades hacked' presentation on whole.
If you are going to say somethign this serious why not stand up and put your name and reputation on the line even a fraction as much as what can happen to the accused?
We're missing the obvious! Drolets joined on the 29th of may and didn't post anything in the forums but his first Liquipidia edits are on the same day. He joined, not because of the showmatch but, to edit Liqupidia pages about Spanish sc2.
Nice investigation work, all this witch hunting on hackers has been really interesting in the past few days. It's so interesting that perhaps people should make a movie about it.
I mean it's all really suspecious. A guy with 0 posts makes his 1st post to accuse Spades for maphacking. In the same time there are other threads discussion the spread of hackers with blizzard doing nothing. Then there's all this debate with pro players and spades if he's hacking or not, (you can view the main points here.) The thread gets swarmed with over 4500 replies in 2 days. And then there's even more threads about pro players hacking such as Zack. What will become with the witch hunting? Will blizzard react or it's up to the community to punish the hackers?
Time's running out to deduce his identity if the mods (who do know his main TL posting account/accounts) decide to reveal it. If not, we can conjecture forever!
Drolets is pretty familiar with Spanish SC2 scene. Well, sorta. On the article for Spanish gamer IeZael, created by him, he writes that he's from Barcelona, then changed to Madrid. But he does have some loyalty/fanboyism on LP.
Comming from Brood war, he started to play Starcraft II with the release of the beta, soon becoming one of the best spanish zerg players. On mid 2011 he joined the fnatic team as a 2v2 player. However, even if considered one of the best zergs on spain, he's famous on the spanish scene for playing really bad on offline tournaments, losing to an inactive [[NaRa]] on [[meeting gamers Zaragoza]] and versus [[MikOeL]] and [[EmPiReS]] on [[2012 StarCraft II World Championship Series/Europe/Nationals/Spain|2012 World Championship Series: Spain Nationals]], ending up last on the tournament.
Praises a player that ended up last in the tournament, laying blame to the player's knack for being awesome in online tournaments but bad in offline tournaments. Probable attendee of the of the 2012 Spain Nationals given this article (to see him firsthand playing so bad. This is my conjecture). Fanboyism
Miguel was born at Barcelona on 27 January 1987. In 1998, when he is was only 12 years old, he started playing StarCraft: Brood War. Despite being very young, he didn't go unnoticed, as he became Spain's best player in summer 1999, a title he kept until retiring from the game, on late 2010
In response to discussions regarding a user named oskan that criticized in a comment discussion (rough translation)
Drolets 30/12/11 I think osksan is the same Mikoel that just created this account to write that post and lash out as his teammates
Ironic he would accuse another of posting under a false account to give accusations!
Drolets 23/05/12
Be carefully? English level... Infant.
Nice guy. He has imperfect English typing (as OP notes) and criticizes other Spaniards for their English.
Uploaded two replays to aprenderstarcraft2.es, one "Deathfate vs LoLvsxD 2" and one "Deathfate vs LoLvsxD 1." These two replays have the two players listed and LVP and HysteRya Both replays were recorded by player LoLvsxD. This suggests that he was given replays from LoLvsxD or downloaded somewhere else to report, and sadly, is not LVP or HysteRya ... which would've been a cool find if he had posted replays recorded from player observers.
Sadly, someone else beat me to observing that he registered account to post on liquipedia. I know there's a waiting period after registration but before first post, but from cursory examination it appears to not coincide.
Drolet itself is a French last name, but there's very few google connections of people with that name living in Spain, but many French & Canadian ones (as would be expected). Just some Marie Drolet that publishes scholarly papers on social sciences from University of Granada, Spain.
I just give these in the blind chance that something clicks, I wouldn't waste more than 10 minutes checking into these
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for anonymous whistleblowers existing in the community. They cannot sling mud at a player that sticks unless there is good proof that can be analyzed by well-known figures. TL mods close down pointless threads that haven't got a shred of evidence to their allegations. Without the replay analysis from Illusion, etc, nothing would have gained traction. My reporter instinct wants to see if he gave too much away and ends up being a Spanish team player or coach. It's looking like Spades is history, but who started the ball rolling?
I've been following the original thread ever since I read about it on the news-site "Cadred", and I am also eager to find out the identity of the mystery person.
People keep saying that it doesn't matter who the mystery OP is, but indeed it is, considering he's using suggestive manipulation in order to make it seem that he knows best, he holds the fact, and that you should believe him for his word, which could only be true if he was a renowned player. (Since those are apparently the only ones that you can believe without them submitting any form of evidence.)
I'm not that attached to the SC2-scene, and I suck at the game. Nevertheless, I believe that if you're using suggestive manipulation to appeal to a crowd, you should have no problem revealing your real username. People thinks it's alright to protect whistle-blowers, but what will that lead to? A mistrust in the community to everyone that you play. There will be more accusations, some of them with no foundation at all, and even if the accusation is slagged off, The player who gets accused gets his reputation tarnished.
People keep talking about random here, and pro here. For me it only seems that people don't want new players to join the higher ranks, because chances are they're just cheating, since you haven't heard of them before. (I've played computer-games on a fairly high level before myself, so the mentality of a scene is something I know a little bit about, at least)
If the accusations have solid proof, you shouldn't have any problems revealing your true identity. After all, you're not wrong since you make an accusation based on something you reviewed a lot of times, and probably consulted with friends about it. If you go accuse others without any solid foundation at all, why hide behind an anonymous account? Then your only interest is to discredit another gamer because your pride has been tarnished.
Whenever you get somewhere close to decent in video-games, you tend to develop borderline-narcissism. "Fuck! I'm the best player in the world, and this guy beats me... AND HE'S ONLY SILVER?! He must be cheating, because I'm not Silver!"
Now I have only one question for all the sleuths in this topic:
There's been many viable suspects and many viable theories floating around. But what if "drolets" isn't one person, but several? It's been used in many other communities, e.g Quake Live, which several professional players created a forum-account on Esreality.org called "CSI.QL" and busted players that were cheating. What if this is a similar thing? What's my foundation for this theory? None really, I just think it seems a lot of information and replaywatching for one person to look through and post.
Why is it a lot of information and replaywatching for one person? Well, the match ended at 06:40 CEST on June 4th. Now, I don't know about you other gamers out there, but most people needs sleep. Even if he does what I like to call a "n3uro" and go to bed around 10 and wake up around 16, he still needs to watch 6 hours worth of replays (at least twice considering he needs to take notes and confirm things and analyse every "suspicious" action, and then write a forum-thread about it, and not just write a thread, but a massive fucking wall of text, with a lot of timestamps and analysis regarding everything.
(And drol is lord spelled backwords)
Now I don't have anything else to say, I'm going back to lurk, herp and derp around the forums.
Regards // Emil 'n3uro' Svensson ( Not anonymous despite having an opinion and being a first-post user... Go figure )
Now I have only one question for all the sleuths in this topic:
There's been many viable suspects and many viable theories floating around. But what if "drolets" isn't one person, but several? It's been used in many other communities, e.g Quake Live, which several professional players created a forum-account on Esreality.org called "CSI.QL" and busted players that were cheating. What if this is a similar thing? What's my foundation for this theory? None really, I just think it seems a lot of information and replaywatching for one person to look through and post.
Why is it a lot of information and replaywatching for one person? Well, the match ended at 06:40 CEST on June 4th. Now, I don't know about you other gamers out there, but most people needs sleep. Even if he does what I like to call a "n3uro" and go to bed around 10 and wake up around 16, he still needs to watch 6 hours worth of replays (at least twice considering he needs to take notes and confirm things and analyse every "suspicious" action, and then write a forum-thread about it, and not just write a thread, but a massive fucking wall of text, with a lot of timestamps and analysis regarding everything.
(And drol is lord spelled backwords)
Now I don't have anything else to say, I'm going back to lurk, herp and derp around the forums.
Regards // Emil 'n3uro' Svensson ( Not anonymous despite having an opinion and being a first-post user... Go figure )
Nice post. We did consider the multiple person angle a couple of pages back. It of course, is much harder to prove. But we trawled twitter to try and find some evidence of it.
Well, I only posted my opinion regarding it because I'm of the opinion that two witch-hunts are better than one, since I like to be informed of things. I'm interested to see that you've considered it, and found some evidence regarding it. I will keep following this thread with interest.
its 8 am. I'm off to watch gstl and fall asleep. I'll be back with more later today. PM me if you find anything good or iif you want me to look into anyone.
I tried looking at all the people connected, and check it out!
Guys, this info is totally wrong. It's simply not true.
It's not a secret that our team (x6.wc3) may end soon and that our players switched to SC2, but x6tence is not interested in SC2 and it won't have any SC2 team for the moment.
SworD, Aca, Rob and my brothers are just a group of friends that may compete in the first SC2 team leagues together as a friends team, it has nothing to do with x6tence or any other eSports organisation, its just a friends team to play to play maybe the first team leagues that are comming out.
Though comming isn't entirely an uncommon spelling, and I believe Ryo's level of Spanish to be above that of drolets.
I have another find, one that's either a hell of a coincidence, or an amazing find, that I'm going to link to Promethelax to let him go further...Let's just say, I can't link it here.
On June 06 2012 10:08 Promethelax wrote: I would look in the IPL TAC 3 threads about Karont3 vs Quantic and vs x6. Someone that close to the team would be a big fan in their first international team event. I'm off to be a detective in those threads, wish me luck. I'll update this post if I find anything.
Edit: Okay, with some research into the aforementioned and related threads I have found a few possibilities. These are based on post counts, join dates, country, knowledge of the Karont3 team and not being a part of the K3 organization (if it was one of them I truly believe that the TL mods would have released that information already). So there are under a half dozen possible posters, I'll give the possible reasons for each and their TL user names, I hope no one will assume they are actually the OP of the spades thread. I'm mostly doing this for fun, I have no outside knowledge of this matter. Seriously, don't belive me on my word, do your own research before you chose to point the finger at any of these guys, one of the reasons I'm leaving in all of them is to remind people how unsure I am. Even if I am right and one of these users is the poster of the allegations ALL OF THE OTHERS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
Okay, with that out of the way we'll begin. The first user I'm looking at is monx1e, he drew my attention by being the only Spaniard to post in both IPL TAC 3 threads about K3. (Qxg v K3: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339648) and K3 vs x6 (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341598). In one he talks about the improved play of AlastOr so clearly he has seen the guy play before. In the other he talks about how Lucifron is in University and isn't practicing much. Clearly these are both comments made by a dedicated fan of the team or of Spanish e-sports; he is aware of these players outside of this particular game. He also posts in the K3 announcement thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=323240) which has only seven total posts so he is clearly on top of the K3 squad. He doesn't say anything that points to him in this thread though. moving on. He posts in the Lucifron streaming thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=331379#19) saying that Luci should be featured. That wraps it up for monx1e, a big fan of K3 and he follows the team in a serious way but nothing else to point to him.
Next up is Storm-Giant, another Spaniard who posted in one of the IPL TAC threads about K3. He has a recent join date, like monx1e, and a low post count. To me these speak against either of these guys being the culprit as they don't have anything to protect in this second level anonymity. He posts in the EC cup (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337902¤tpage=6#112) supporting Lucifron. Nothing odd here since he is a fan. He posts in the K3/x6 IPL TAC thread in response to someone saying that K3 is the weakest team defending them. he is also a member of the Lucifron fan club (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337166#20) and thats about it on him. I honestly think he is the least likely of the guys I found.
Third we have Berceno who is the first of these people to have been found posting in the "[?]Spades Hacking?" thread. He comes really late to that party though (his first post is #581) where he says he has lost all respect for Spades. He is totally convinced in his first post that Spades is a hacker but so were a large majority of people posting in that thread. His post in the QxG/K3 IPL thread was what first lead me to him, he sates that Lucifron hasn't practiced since "1-5 may" which is the knowledge of either a very intent fan or someone in the know. His low post count and country of origin once again made him worth it for me to check. He is also the first of these posters to post in the original Showmatch thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339927¤tpage=2#26) since the user who requested these replays has to have watched the showmatch I couldn't help but see that as a big point in thinking he might be the poster. He has also posted in the Luci fan club without actually being a member. I don't think this really affects my position on him though, these guys are all fans of Lucifron, that is why I'm looking at them.
Now with these three out of the way we move on to the two more interesting possibilities: a Spanish caster and a German member of TL with enough posts to have an identity he would want to protect.
First we have our German friend: StarVe. In all honesty I wouldn't have looked twice at this guy if someone hadn't posted about "medevak" being a German spelling. He kept turning up in every thread I was looking at so I looked into him some more. In all honesty I don't think he is Drolets, if I was forced to guess I would go with the last guy I mention. However for the sake of completion I'll lay out the arguments in his favour. He posted twice in the Spades is Hacking thread, however his first post in that thread was number 2000 something. He didn't seem to be following it earlier on. He has 6 of the first 19 posts in the K3/x6 IPL TAC game and was clearly rooting for K3 but hey, he is European. I root for the NA teams most of the time. Regional pride and all that. Honestly I think he is only a EU fan who is excited to see K3 do well as an all EU team, hell I've been rooting for them as an all Forgiener squad and because Lucifron and the rest of K3 have been playing really well (not counting the game against QxG). I would say this guy is totally exonerated. On to the last guy I looked at and the most likely in my opinion.
Finally we have the Spanish caster and most likely poster: LorCHsc2. This guy is a prominent member of the Spanish sc2 scene and, therefore, would have reason to keep his identity secret. Of all of the TL users I have mentioned or will mention he is the one who would have the best shot at getting these replays in my opinion. He is the original poster of the IEM Spanish broadcast (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=317941#1) and has interviewed Vortix, Lucifron and AlastOr (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=328265#1) so he clearly has enough of a connection to these players to be able to request a replay from them which he could do without even alerting anyone on K3 to his suspicions; he could ask them for the replays simply to cast them, I'm sure they would say yes. LorCH also has a similar writing style to the poster of the Spades thread, Drolets, whose profile can be viewed here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=drolets He has the overuse of commas and some English misspellings which, although not conclusive, make him seem like a strong possibility. He also says, in Drolets' thread
Sorry 'bout my english :D. I speak better than i write... i think...
which agrees with the above poster who felt that Drolets spoke more than he wrote. Now, in addition to this he Streamed his analysis of the replays in Spanish, getting those stream views that people said CatZ was getting by taking this into the public eye. So there is a motive, not only to help Lucifron but also for himself. He also posted this
in the Spanish WCS qualifiers thread. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339847¤tpage=2#26) which, I'm sure you'll notice is the original source for the pictures which Drolets used in his Liquipidia edits. He posts in Vortix Streaming, Lucifron's fan club, and a lot of various Spanish related threads. I could find no instances of him using the Medevak spelling though, which would have proved it to me. In fact the only times that spelling is used on TL are in Drolets' post and posts quoting him. Seriously, that is it. LorCH also uses ellipses "..." a lot which is consistent with Drolets' post. (for example, this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342248¤tpage=120#2384)
This guy has casted a lot of Lucifron games, a lot of K3 games and has interviewed at least 3/5ths of the K3 line-up. He has the connection to get the replays and the motive to hide his Identity as he has something to protect within this community. In my opinion he is the most likely candidate and I personally would not be surprised if it turns out that he is Drolets.
tl:dr look into LorCHsc2, he looks like he had motive, ability and opportunity to to be Drolets.
Edit 2: I've found LorCH's twitter and am attempting to translate from Spanish. Interestingly enough one of the people he is tweeting to is Storm-Giant who is also the only one to post a comment on LorCH's announcement that he would be streaming the replays of Spades/Lucifron
Edit 3: The person who informed LorCH, Karont3, Lucifron and Ryo was luciusvlm who is a TL user I saw pop up in a lot of the threads I was looking into.
My finance is sick of me being an internet detective so I'm off to bed. I may do more tomorrow. I hope someone will pick up where I left off though. Good luck to all you internet investigators!
sorry to disappoint you, but MedEvak is not a term germans use to describe medivacs. It's name is Medivac in german and nobody i've ever met would even know that it's short for medizinische Evakuierung. I'd stick with the Spanish variant, since it's not much farther from Medevac.
Seems like its going to be impossible to pinpoint it any further than we have. I think the best we can narrow it down to the small group of 5 or so that we have, but to single out one person will inevitably rely on speculation given how little we know about drolets. I mean we have his writing style and his liquipedia edits which just show familiarity with the Spanish scene. The Spanish scene and the K3 "family" seem pretty close knit, so who's to say which one of them it is. What we do know for sure though is that lucifron personally provided the replays.
On June 06 2012 23:12 Doodsmack wrote: Seems like its going to be impossible to pinpoint it any further than we have. I think the best we can narrow it down to the small group of 5 or so that we have, but to single out one person will inevitably rely on speculation given how little we know about drolets. I mean we have his writing style and his liquipedia edits which just show familiarity with the Spanish scene. The Spanish scene and the K3 "family" seem pretty close knit, so who's to say which one of them it is. What we do know for sure though is that lucifron personally provided the replays.
Given a few more days and a few more interested parties, I'm confident we can be relatively sure.
Guys, this info is totally wrong. It's simply not true.
It's not a secret that our team (x6.wc3) may end soon and that our players switched to SC2, but x6tence is not interested in SC2 and it won't have any SC2 team for the moment.
SworD, Aca, Rob and my brothers are just a group of friends that may compete in the first SC2 team leagues together as a friends team, it has nothing to do with x6tence or any other eSports organisation, its just a friends team to play to play maybe the first team leagues that are comming out.
Though comming isn't entirely an uncommon spelling, and I believe Ryo's level of Spanish to be above that of drolets.
I have another find, one that's either a hell of a coincidence, or an amazing find, that I'm going to link to Promethelax to let him go further...Let's just say, I can't link it here.
I'm looking into the evidence you provided and other sources. I sent you a lot of his posts for you and the young lady to look into. I'm hoping we'll have a good piece of writing analysis done within the next two days.
I'm also looking into the other possible source we mentioned, and I'll get back to you with more of my findings on that front.
Anyone else who has any information: please post it here or PM it to me. I'm going to keep working on this for a while since I'm having so much fun.
On June 05 2012 19:07 Gheed wrote: Note: this was written for purposes of my personal entertainment. Give my assertions and conclusions no more credence than you would a show about aliens on the History Channel.
On June 05 2012 19:07 Gheed wrote: Note: this was written for purposes of my personal entertainment. Give my assertions and conclusions no more credence than you would a show about aliens on the History Channel.
Aliens. Are serious business.
I really love watching those History Channel shows about how Aliens built the pyramids, made crop circles, etc. I think that little note was my favorite part of the whole blog.
Part of me thinks this is super cool. Part of me worries you may just have kicked off another witch hunt >< Nice read though, thanks insomnia! And Gheed
Felnarion and I are following up on a few leads, one of which is very close to the Duran brothers themselves. Since we don't have definitive proof yet I won't add this name to the list of possible suspects as I really don't feel right suggesting an ulterior motive for Drolets' post until I can be sure. However I doubt we will ever be able to prove anything definitively, since that is the case I would welcome anyone's help who has some spare time, is interested or thinks they know anything. I'm going to continue to work on this and I hope you all will join me in our quest. If you have any questions or want to help out send me a PM and I'll show you what we have found. I hope everyone will show some restraint and refrain from a counter witch hunt until there is some real evidence though.
Minor update on the aforementioned suspects: LorCHsc2: still a possibility although his behaviour is also totally consistent with an interested figure in the Spanish scene. He also just told the world that he is having a baby, congratulations to him. Luciusvlm: also remains a possible source, he has a history of behaviour which could connect him to this event. However his Spanish and English writing is dissimilar to that of Drolets and he is no longer my main interest. Along with these two two other members of the Spanish sc2 scene have come under suspicion they have ties to K3 and the Duran brothers and have writing styles much more similar to Drolets' if we gain any more knowledge I will share it with you and if we can clear anyone totally we will also inform you of that.
On June 06 2012 00:01 RaGe wrote: I'd like to note that his IP actually does match other TL accounts. NrGMonk is still an inexperienced banling and didn't really use the full IP matching functionality we have.
The mods have a decent idea of who it is, and are discussing whether or not to reveal this information. It's likely we'll make a statement on the entire situation (not just the drama itself, but also the way it was handled) in the coming days.
I sincerly hope you all don't do so. There are very strong laws proteting the rights of whistleblowers for very good reasons. Blowback from the allegations can put the whistleblower at risk and strongly discourage anyone from doing it again.
If this guy is anyone of note, revealing (or figuring out) his real identity would undoubtedly result in widespread harassment by Spade's fans and those individuals who believe Spade's is innocent. That type of activity could potentially disuade anyone from coming forward in the future with information concerning maphacking or dishonest behavior in the pro scene. These were not baseless claims, they were well founded accusations that this individuals brought forward with convincingly good intentions.
Whether they are true or not, that type of activity should not be discouraged, if someone believes very strongly they have evidence of wrong-doing, that information should be brought forward for everyone to see. Whether that person's reputations is forever harmed or not is the fault of the community at large and not this individual; as the cleche goes he is only "the messenger". What the community decides to do with that message is what give rise to the "witch-hunt" mentality. Though there are still plenty who are going to blame this guy for "ruining" Spade's career, when in fact all he did was write a short thread and attach some replays.
That's exactly why it's extremely important to protect his identity. I don't want to see a pro-player or veteran member of this community exiled or end up on the recieving end of some vicious hatred because they sought to shed some light on some shady business. That reaction would undoubtably give pause to anyone in the future who is considering publishing evidence of a player cheating. Even if you believe the allegations were wrong this time, next time they may not be--and there may be real evidence of it--and we may never know of it because individuals in the community are too afraid to share it. Let's not foster that environment.
Gheed, mods, everyone else: let's keep this guys identity a secret. He doesn't deserve what would be coming to him should his real identity be exposed. I realize that there is an impulse of curiosity here, a puzzle that needs solving. But it's best to leave this one a mystery. Whistleblowers are good things, what the community chose to do with the information published was the problem this time, nothing more.
On June 06 2012 00:01 RaGe wrote: I'd like to note that his IP actually does match other TL accounts. NrGMonk is still an inexperienced banling and didn't really use the full IP matching functionality we have.
The mods have a decent idea of who it is, and are discussing whether or not to reveal this information. It's likely we'll make a statement on the entire situation (not just the drama itself, but also the way it was handled) in the coming days.
I sincerly hope you all don't do so. There are very strong laws proteting the rights of whistleblowers for very good reasons. Blowback from the allegations can put the whistleblower at risk and strongly discourage anyone from doing it again.
If this guy is anyone of note, revealing (or figuring out) his real identity would undoubtedly result in widespread harassment by Spade's fans and those individuals who believe Spade's is innocent. That type of activity could potentially disuade anyone from coming forward in the future with information concerning maphacking or dishonest behavior in the pro scene. These were not baseless claims, they were well founded accusations that this individuals brought forward with convincingly good intentions.
Whether they are true or not, that type of activity should not be discouraged, if someone believes very strongly they have evidence of wrong-doing, that information should be brought forward for everyone to see. Whether that person's reputations is forever harmed or not is the fault of the community at large and not this individual; as the cleche goes he is only "the messenger". What the community decides to do with that message is what give rise to the "witch-hunt" mentality. Though there are still plenty who are going to blame this guy for "ruining" Spade's career, when in fact all he did was write a short thread and attach some replays.
That's exactly why it's extremely important to protect his identity. I don't want to see a pro-player or veteran member of this community exiled or end up on the recieving end of some vicious hatred because they sought to shed some light on some shady business. That reaction would undoubtably give pause to anyone in the future who is considering publishing evidence of a player cheating. Even if you believe the allegations were wrong this time, next time they may not be--and there may be real evidence of it--and we may never know of it because individuals in the community are too afraid to share it. Let's not foster that environment.
Gheed, mods, everyone else: let's keep this guys identity a secret. He doesn't deserve what would be coming to him should his real identity be exposed. I realize that there is an impulse of curiosity here, a puzzle that needs solving. But it's best to leave this one a mystery. Whistleblowers are good things, what the community chose to do with the information published was the problem this time, nothing more.
Quite frankly, i'm doing it for my own curiosity. While I do think it is distasteful to hide your identity when throwing a large accusation; that is not my motive here. My motive is to simply know.
Honestly, there was little reason for him to hide. If correct, he was a hero. If wrong, he was among a sea of people accusing others of hacking.
EDIT: For those interested in our own witch-hunt; we're close, very close I think.
On June 06 2012 00:01 RaGe wrote: I'd like to note that his IP actually does match other TL accounts. NrGMonk is still an inexperienced banling and didn't really use the full IP matching functionality we have.
The mods have a decent idea of who it is, and are discussing whether or not to reveal this information. It's likely we'll make a statement on the entire situation (not just the drama itself, but also the way it was handled) in the coming days.
I sincerly hope you all don't do so. There are very strong laws proteting the rights of whistleblowers for very good reasons. Blowback from the allegations can put the whistleblower at risk and strongly discourage anyone from doing it again.
If this guy is anyone of note, revealing (or figuring out) his real identity would undoubtedly result in widespread harassment by Spade's fans and those individuals who believe Spade's is innocent. That type of activity could potentially disuade anyone from coming forward in the future with information concerning maphacking or dishonest behavior in the pro scene. These were not baseless claims, they were well founded accusations that this individuals brought forward with convincingly good intentions.
Whether they are true or not, that type of activity should not be discouraged, if someone believes very strongly they have evidence of wrong-doing, that information should be brought forward for everyone to see. Whether that person's reputations is forever harmed or not is the fault of the community at large and not this individual; as the cleche goes he is only "the messenger". What the community decides to do with that message is what give rise to the "witch-hunt" mentality. Though there are still plenty who are going to blame this guy for "ruining" Spade's career, when in fact all he did was write a short thread and attach some replays.
That's exactly why it's extremely important to protect his identity. I don't want to see a pro-player or veteran member of this community exiled or end up on the recieving end of some vicious hatred because they sought to shed some light on some shady business. That reaction would undoubtably give pause to anyone in the future who is considering publishing evidence of a player cheating. Even if you believe the allegations were wrong this time, next time they may not be--and there may be real evidence of it--and we may never know of it because individuals in the community are too afraid to share it. Let's not foster that environment.
Gheed, mods, everyone else: let's keep this guys identity a secret. He doesn't deserve what would be coming to him should his real identity be exposed. I realize that there is an impulse of curiosity here, a puzzle that needs solving. But it's best to leave this one a mystery. Whistleblowers are good things, what the community chose to do with the information published was the problem this time, nothing more.
Quite frankly, i'm doing it for my own curiosity. While I do think it is distasteful to hide your identity when throwing a large accusation; that is not my motive here. My motive is to simply know.
Honestly, there was little reason for him to hide. If correct, he was a hero. If wrong, he was among a sea of people accusing others of hacking.
You know what they say about what killed the cat? :S
Obviously there's nothing I nor anyone else can do to prevent you from e-stalking this guy. But nothing good can come out of revealing his real identity, but I can think of about half a dozen ill outcomes. Not the least of which is a new witch-hunt against someone else and a whole dredging up of all this drama again. Just remember that.
Realistically, the identity of the OP has nothing to do with the issue, which is whether Spades hacked or not. Was his post controversial? Yes. But it wasn't baseless mud slinging either, whether the accusations are true or not the OP did do a decent job of backing up his claim. He then left completely, leaving everyone to judge for themselves. It was not the OP that pushed the matter into a witch hunt and it was not the OP driving the underlying drama--the rest of the community is responsible for that. He should not be made out as a scape goat.
He had evidence that he believed proved grossly dishonest behavior of a pro player. Whether or not Spades did it, the OP made that information public for everyone to judge for themselves. There's nothing wrong with that, and releasing his identity will only serve to encourage people to keep quiet when they believe the see dishonest behavior. It's time to put the whole mess behind us, if there are unanswered questions so what? The issue was about Spade's maphacking, that can be determined without any additional information about the OP.
-edit: Btw, let's be honest. When you say you are doing this for "curiosity" what you really mean is you're doing this for fun. Which is pretty much the same reason why everyone gets involved in these which-hunt threads in the first place, it's fun and full of juicy edrama. Well, take some time to judge the consequences of what your actions could have.
On June 06 2012 00:01 RaGe wrote: I'd like to note that his IP actually does match other TL accounts. NrGMonk is still an inexperienced banling and didn't really use the full IP matching functionality we have.
The mods have a decent idea of who it is, and are discussing whether or not to reveal this information. It's likely we'll make a statement on the entire situation (not just the drama itself, but also the way it was handled) in the coming days.
I sincerly hope you all don't do so. There are very strong laws proteting the rights of whistleblowers for very good reasons. Blowback from the allegations can put the whistleblower at risk and strongly discourage anyone from doing it again.
If this guy is anyone of note, revealing (or figuring out) his real identity would undoubtedly result in widespread harassment by Spade's fans and those individuals who believe Spade's is innocent. That type of activity could potentially disuade anyone from coming forward in the future with information concerning maphacking or dishonest behavior in the pro scene. These were not baseless claims, they were well founded accusations that this individuals brought forward with convincingly good intentions.
Whether they are true or not, that type of activity should not be discouraged, if someone believes very strongly they have evidence of wrong-doing, that information should be brought forward for everyone to see. Whether that person's reputations is forever harmed or not is the fault of the community at large and not this individual; as the cleche goes he is only "the messenger". What the community decides to do with that message is what give rise to the "witch-hunt" mentality. Though there are still plenty who are going to blame this guy for "ruining" Spade's career, when in fact all he did was write a short thread and attach some replays.
That's exactly why it's extremely important to protect his identity. I don't want to see a pro-player or veteran member of this community exiled or end up on the recieving end of some vicious hatred because they sought to shed some light on some shady business. That reaction would undoubtably give pause to anyone in the future who is considering publishing evidence of a player cheating. Even if you believe the allegations were wrong this time, next time they may not be--and there may be real evidence of it--and we may never know of it because individuals in the community are too afraid to share it. Let's not foster that environment.
Gheed, mods, everyone else: let's keep this guys identity a secret. He doesn't deserve what would be coming to him should his real identity be exposed. I realize that there is an impulse of curiosity here, a puzzle that needs solving. But it's best to leave this one a mystery. Whistleblowers are good things, what the community chose to do with the information published was the problem this time, nothing more.
Quite frankly, i'm doing it for my own curiosity. While I do think it is distasteful to hide your identity when throwing a large accusation; that is not my motive here. My motive is to simply know.
Honestly, there was little reason for him to hide. If correct, he was a hero. If wrong, he was among a sea of people accusing others of hacking.
You know what they say about what killed the cat? :S
Obviously there's nothing I nor anyone else can do to prevent you from e-stalking this guy. But nothing good can come out of revealing his real identity, but I can think of about half a dozen ill outcomes. Not the least of which is a new witch-hunt against someone else and a whole dredging up of all this drama again. Just remember that.
Realistically, the identity of the OP has nothing to do with the issue, which is whether Spades hacked or not. Was his post controversial? Yes. But it wasn't baseless mud slinging either, whether the accusations are true or not the OP did do a decent job of backing up his claim. He then left completely, leaving everyone to judge for themselves. It was not the OP that pushed the matter into a witch hunt and it was not the OP driving the underlying drama--the rest of the community is responsible for that. He should not be made out as a scape goat.
He had evidence that he believed proved grossly dishonest behavior of a pro player. Whether or not Spades did it, the OP made that information public for everyone to judge for themselves. There's nothing wrong with that, and releasing his identity will only serve to encourage people to keep quiet when they believe the see dishonest behavior. It's time to put the whole mess behind us, if there are unanswered questions so what? The issue was about Spade's maphacking, that can be determined without any additional information about the OP.
-edit: Btw, let's be honest. When you say you are doing this for "curiosity" what you really mean is you're doing this for fun. Which is pretty much the same reason why everyone gets involved in these which-hunt threads in the first place, it's fun and full of juicy edrama. Well, take some time to judge the consequences of what your actions could have.
There is an ethical issue involved if he is who we think he is, conflict of interest one might say since the original replays gave no hard evidence of cheating. It was only with another ~120 replays provided by Spades and others that it became clear to most of the people who are qualified enough to have an opinion that he was indeed cheating. I can't speak to the truth of the allegations, although I do think they are true based on what I have heard from the pros. Instead I can look into the possible reasons that Drolets posted what he did. I am doing that with some help from others in the community. If I do discover the identity of Drolets I plan on confronting him through private pathways (PM or email) and getting an explanation of why he posted what he did. If I am satisfied, or not, I do not plan on revealing his identity to the community as a whole. I will however release his reasoning so that we can all understand the background to this mess and make it clear that there is some accountability within this community.
Very good blog. You forgot to mention "kommen" is written with two "m" in German ; that's useless information now, but might have seemed interesting earlier.
On June 06 2012 00:01 RaGe wrote: I'd like to note that his IP actually does match other TL accounts. NrGMonk is still an inexperienced banling and didn't really use the full IP matching functionality we have.
The mods have a decent idea of who it is, and are discussing whether or not to reveal this information. It's likely we'll make a statement on the entire situation (not just the drama itself, but also the way it was handled) in the coming days.
I sincerly hope you all don't do so. There are very strong laws proteting the rights of whistleblowers for very good reasons. Blowback from the allegations can put the whistleblower at risk and strongly discourage anyone from doing it again.
If this guy is anyone of note, revealing (or figuring out) his real identity would undoubtedly result in widespread harassment by Spade's fans and those individuals who believe Spade's is innocent. That type of activity could potentially disuade anyone from coming forward in the future with information concerning maphacking or dishonest behavior in the pro scene. These were not baseless claims, they were well founded accusations that this individuals brought forward with convincingly good intentions.
Whether they are true or not, that type of activity should not be discouraged, if someone believes very strongly they have evidence of wrong-doing, that information should be brought forward for everyone to see. Whether that person's reputations is forever harmed or not is the fault of the community at large and not this individual; as the cleche goes he is only "the messenger". What the community decides to do with that message is what give rise to the "witch-hunt" mentality. Though there are still plenty who are going to blame this guy for "ruining" Spade's career, when in fact all he did was write a short thread and attach some replays.
That's exactly why it's extremely important to protect his identity. I don't want to see a pro-player or veteran member of this community exiled or end up on the recieving end of some vicious hatred because they sought to shed some light on some shady business. That reaction would undoubtably give pause to anyone in the future who is considering publishing evidence of a player cheating. Even if you believe the allegations were wrong this time, next time they may not be--and there may be real evidence of it--and we may never know of it because individuals in the community are too afraid to share it. Let's not foster that environment.
Gheed, mods, everyone else: let's keep this guys identity a secret. He doesn't deserve what would be coming to him should his real identity be exposed. I realize that there is an impulse of curiosity here, a puzzle that needs solving. But it's best to leave this one a mystery. Whistleblowers are good things, what the community chose to do with the information published was the problem this time, nothing more.
Quite frankly, i'm doing it for my own curiosity. While I do think it is distasteful to hide your identity when throwing a large accusation; that is not my motive here. My motive is to simply know.
Honestly, there was little reason for him to hide. If correct, he was a hero. If wrong, he was among a sea of people accusing others of hacking.
You know what they say about what killed the cat? :S
Obviously there's nothing I nor anyone else can do to prevent you from e-stalking this guy. But nothing good can come out of revealing his real identity, but I can think of about half a dozen ill outcomes. Not the least of which is a new witch-hunt against someone else and a whole dredging up of all this drama again. Just remember that.
Realistically, the identity of the OP has nothing to do with the issue, which is whether Spades hacked or not. Was his post controversial? Yes. But it wasn't baseless mud slinging either, whether the accusations are true or not the OP did do a decent job of backing up his claim. He then left completely, leaving everyone to judge for themselves. It was not the OP that pushed the matter into a witch hunt and it was not the OP driving the underlying drama--the rest of the community is responsible for that. He should not be made out as a scape goat.
He had evidence that he believed proved grossly dishonest behavior of a pro player. Whether or not Spades did it, the OP made that information public for everyone to judge for themselves. There's nothing wrong with that, and releasing his identity will only serve to encourage people to keep quiet when they believe the see dishonest behavior. It's time to put the whole mess behind us, if there are unanswered questions so what? The issue was about Spade's maphacking, that can be determined without any additional information about the OP.
What the OP did was mudslinging, not whistleblowing. Whistleblowing entails contacting a relevant authority with evidence, and then said authority decides whether to pursue the case. In this case, the OP publicly posted the replays without consulting anyone prior. We know that most of the stuff mentioned were baseless accusations, and Spades was found to be guilty after more replays were dug up and discrepancies found. The OP was fortunate that real evidence got dug up, because if Spades was found innocent the damage has already been done. Public apologies by Catz et al. would be insufficient to repair the damage.
If a person is going to sling accusations without 100% proof, then he better be prepared to face the consequences if he's proven wrong. If you want to remain anonymous, consult a second, third professional opinion and come to a consensus before releasing this information public.
On June 06 2012 00:01 RaGe wrote: I'd like to note that his IP actually does match other TL accounts. NrGMonk is still an inexperienced banling and didn't really use the full IP matching functionality we have.
The mods have a decent idea of who it is, and are discussing whether or not to reveal this information. It's likely we'll make a statement on the entire situation (not just the drama itself, but also the way it was handled) in the coming days.
I sincerly hope you all don't do so. There are very strong laws proteting the rights of whistleblowers for very good reasons. Blowback from the allegations can put the whistleblower at risk and strongly discourage anyone from doing it again.
If this guy is anyone of note, revealing (or figuring out) his real identity would undoubtedly result in widespread harassment by Spade's fans and those individuals who believe Spade's is innocent. That type of activity could potentially disuade anyone from coming forward in the future with information concerning maphacking or dishonest behavior in the pro scene. These were not baseless claims, they were well founded accusations that this individuals brought forward with convincingly good intentions.
Whether they are true or not, that type of activity should not be discouraged, if someone believes very strongly they have evidence of wrong-doing, that information should be brought forward for everyone to see. Whether that person's reputations is forever harmed or not is the fault of the community at large and not this individual; as the cleche goes he is only "the messenger". What the community decides to do with that message is what give rise to the "witch-hunt" mentality. Though there are still plenty who are going to blame this guy for "ruining" Spade's career, when in fact all he did was write a short thread and attach some replays.
That's exactly why it's extremely important to protect his identity. I don't want to see a pro-player or veteran member of this community exiled or end up on the recieving end of some vicious hatred because they sought to shed some light on some shady business. That reaction would undoubtably give pause to anyone in the future who is considering publishing evidence of a player cheating. Even if you believe the allegations were wrong this time, next time they may not be--and there may be real evidence of it--and we may never know of it because individuals in the community are too afraid to share it. Let's not foster that environment.
Gheed, mods, everyone else: let's keep this guys identity a secret. He doesn't deserve what would be coming to him should his real identity be exposed. I realize that there is an impulse of curiosity here, a puzzle that needs solving. But it's best to leave this one a mystery. Whistleblowers are good things, what the community chose to do with the information published was the problem this time, nothing more.
Quite frankly, i'm doing it for my own curiosity. While I do think it is distasteful to hide your identity when throwing a large accusation; that is not my motive here. My motive is to simply know.
Honestly, there was little reason for him to hide. If correct, he was a hero. If wrong, he was among a sea of people accusing others of hacking.
You know what they say about what killed the cat? :S
Obviously there's nothing I nor anyone else can do to prevent you from e-stalking this guy. But nothing good can come out of revealing his real identity, but I can think of about half a dozen ill outcomes. Not the least of which is a new witch-hunt against someone else and a whole dredging up of all this drama again. Just remember that.
Realistically, the identity of the OP has nothing to do with the issue, which is whether Spades hacked or not. Was his post controversial? Yes. But it wasn't baseless mud slinging either, whether the accusations are true or not the OP did do a decent job of backing up his claim. He then left completely, leaving everyone to judge for themselves. It was not the OP that pushed the matter into a witch hunt and it was not the OP driving the underlying drama--the rest of the community is responsible for that. He should not be made out as a scape goat.
He had evidence that he believed proved grossly dishonest behavior of a pro player. Whether or not Spades did it, the OP made that information public for everyone to judge for themselves. There's nothing wrong with that, and releasing his identity will only serve to encourage people to keep quiet when they believe the see dishonest behavior. It's time to put the whole mess behind us, if there are unanswered questions so what? The issue was about Spade's maphacking, that can be determined without any additional information about the OP.
-edit: Btw, let's be honest. When you say you are doing this for "curiosity" what you really mean is you're doing this for fun. Which is pretty much the same reason why everyone gets involved in these which-hunt threads in the first place, it's fun and full of juicy edrama. Well, take some time to judge the consequences of what your actions could have.
There is an ethical issue involved if he is who we think he is, conflict of interest one might say since the original replays gave no hard evidence of cheating. It was only with another ~120 replays provided by Spades and others that it became clear to most of the people who are qualified enough to have an opinion that he was indeed cheating. I can't speak to the truth of the allegations, although I do think they are true based on what I have heard from the pros. Instead I can look into the possible reasons that Drolets posted what he did. I am doing that with some help from others in the community. If I do discover the identity of Drolets I plan on confronting him through private pathways (PM or email) and getting an explanation of why he posted what he did. If I am satisfied, or not, I do not plan on revealing his identity to the community as a whole. I will however release his reasoning so that we can all understand the background to this mess and make it clear that there is some accountability within this community.
So you've nominated yourself judge and jury? And what if you're wrong? You get to cause a bunch of edrama and attempt to fuck up someone else's career here?
Why would this person even release their reasoning to you? It's highly unlikely that this person would actually respond to you as that's essentially validating you're right. More than likely even if it was the right person they'd deny it knowing there was no way you could prove it was them (without TL's IP records). So we start another witch-hunt arguing over some scraps of information with half the community calling for blood. In what universe does this sound like a good outcome??
I don't know what ethical issues you're talking about, but if you agree that he was really hacking what possible ethical issues could there exist that would justify re-starting all this crap? If it was someone who was slated to play Spades in an upcoming tournament, yeah I could understand why they would want to release the info as they don't want to lose unfairly; even a fellow teammate or pro player I can completely understand their desire to purge hackers from their community. And any issues with timing (such as replacing Spades in a tournament) are all circumstantial evidence that may just be a fluke of timing. Realistically, you have no solid information about their motives and they won't tell you anway. So what's the end game here? To open a new thread that turns into another clusterfuck of edrama that resolves nothing? Because that's the only realistic outcome here.
Let this shit die and let's get on with our lives. There's far more important things going on this weekend than this Spade's crap.
On June 06 2012 00:01 RaGe wrote: I'd like to note that his IP actually does match other TL accounts. NrGMonk is still an inexperienced banling and didn't really use the full IP matching functionality we have.
The mods have a decent idea of who it is, and are discussing whether or not to reveal this information. It's likely we'll make a statement on the entire situation (not just the drama itself, but also the way it was handled) in the coming days.
I sincerly hope you all don't do so. There are very strong laws proteting the rights of whistleblowers for very good reasons. Blowback from the allegations can put the whistleblower at risk and strongly discourage anyone from doing it again.
If this guy is anyone of note, revealing (or figuring out) his real identity would undoubtedly result in widespread harassment by Spade's fans and those individuals who believe Spade's is innocent. That type of activity could potentially disuade anyone from coming forward in the future with information concerning maphacking or dishonest behavior in the pro scene. These were not baseless claims, they were well founded accusations that this individuals brought forward with convincingly good intentions.
Whether they are true or not, that type of activity should not be discouraged, if someone believes very strongly they have evidence of wrong-doing, that information should be brought forward for everyone to see. Whether that person's reputations is forever harmed or not is the fault of the community at large and not this individual; as the cleche goes he is only "the messenger". What the community decides to do with that message is what give rise to the "witch-hunt" mentality. Though there are still plenty who are going to blame this guy for "ruining" Spade's career, when in fact all he did was write a short thread and attach some replays.
That's exactly why it's extremely important to protect his identity. I don't want to see a pro-player or veteran member of this community exiled or end up on the recieving end of some vicious hatred because they sought to shed some light on some shady business. That reaction would undoubtably give pause to anyone in the future who is considering publishing evidence of a player cheating. Even if you believe the allegations were wrong this time, next time they may not be--and there may be real evidence of it--and we may never know of it because individuals in the community are too afraid to share it. Let's not foster that environment.
Gheed, mods, everyone else: let's keep this guys identity a secret. He doesn't deserve what would be coming to him should his real identity be exposed. I realize that there is an impulse of curiosity here, a puzzle that needs solving. But it's best to leave this one a mystery. Whistleblowers are good things, what the community chose to do with the information published was the problem this time, nothing more.
Quite frankly, i'm doing it for my own curiosity. While I do think it is distasteful to hide your identity when throwing a large accusation; that is not my motive here. My motive is to simply know.
Honestly, there was little reason for him to hide. If correct, he was a hero. If wrong, he was among a sea of people accusing others of hacking.
You know what they say about what killed the cat? :S
Obviously there's nothing I nor anyone else can do to prevent you from e-stalking this guy. But nothing good can come out of revealing his real identity, but I can think of about half a dozen ill outcomes. Not the least of which is a new witch-hunt against someone else and a whole dredging up of all this drama again. Just remember that.
Realistically, the identity of the OP has nothing to do with the issue, which is whether Spades hacked or not. Was his post controversial? Yes. But it wasn't baseless mud slinging either, whether the accusations are true or not the OP did do a decent job of backing up his claim. He then left completely, leaving everyone to judge for themselves. It was not the OP that pushed the matter into a witch hunt and it was not the OP driving the underlying drama--the rest of the community is responsible for that. He should not be made out as a scape goat.
He had evidence that he believed proved grossly dishonest behavior of a pro player. Whether or not Spades did it, the OP made that information public for everyone to judge for themselves. There's nothing wrong with that, and releasing his identity will only serve to encourage people to keep quiet when they believe the see dishonest behavior. It's time to put the whole mess behind us, if there are unanswered questions so what? The issue was about Spade's maphacking, that can be determined without any additional information about the OP.
-edit: Btw, let's be honest. When you say you are doing this for "curiosity" what you really mean is you're doing this for fun. Which is pretty much the same reason why everyone gets involved in these which-hunt threads in the first place, it's fun and full of juicy edrama. Well, take some time to judge the consequences of what your actions could have.
Personally I believe it's not an issue about making information public, but the suggestive methods, and the inconclusiveness of the first provided "evidence" in the OP of the spades-thread, makes me want to get to the bottom of this. I personally believe there's an ulterior motive behind this. As to whether spades actually uses unfair methods to gain an advantage, I cannot answer, since I'm not only unfamiliar with the program, but inexperienced with the game itself. What irritates me though, is that people takes other peoples word for it. "Oh [progamer] says this, then this must be true." Sure, being a professional player gives you experience, but I can't see why words from someone that's not familiar with the programs used should matter at all. If not anything, suggestive methods, and the idea of having experienced players who people looks up to comment on it, makes it impossible for someone fairly interested in the scene to be unbiased, which clouds peoples judgement heavily. Not just that, but like in so many games, going against the general crowd will deem you either a "nap", or they'll simply accuse you of being a fanboy of Spades.
It's common psychology and mob-mentality.
Now, as specified above, I do believe there's an ulterior motive behind this whole witch-hunt. If there is, shouldn't the person behind this take responsibility? My reasoning is that if we won't allow hackers, why allow people to discredit other players with mudslinging and wild accusations? As stated in previous reply on page 9, it will only make things worse for the scene.
Regards // Emil 'n3uro' Svensson, still not anonymous, even though it's only my third post.
On June 06 2012 00:01 RaGe wrote: I'd like to note that his IP actually does match other TL accounts. NrGMonk is still an inexperienced banling and didn't really use the full IP matching functionality we have.
The mods have a decent idea of who it is, and are discussing whether or not to reveal this information. It's likely we'll make a statement on the entire situation (not just the drama itself, but also the way it was handled) in the coming days.
I sincerly hope you all don't do so. There are very strong laws proteting the rights of whistleblowers for very good reasons. Blowback from the allegations can put the whistleblower at risk and strongly discourage anyone from doing it again.
If this guy is anyone of note, revealing (or figuring out) his real identity would undoubtedly result in widespread harassment by Spade's fans and those individuals who believe Spade's is innocent. That type of activity could potentially disuade anyone from coming forward in the future with information concerning maphacking or dishonest behavior in the pro scene. These were not baseless claims, they were well founded accusations that this individuals brought forward with convincingly good intentions.
Whether they are true or not, that type of activity should not be discouraged, if someone believes very strongly they have evidence of wrong-doing, that information should be brought forward for everyone to see. Whether that person's reputations is forever harmed or not is the fault of the community at large and not this individual; as the cleche goes he is only "the messenger". What the community decides to do with that message is what give rise to the "witch-hunt" mentality. Though there are still plenty who are going to blame this guy for "ruining" Spade's career, when in fact all he did was write a short thread and attach some replays.
That's exactly why it's extremely important to protect his identity. I don't want to see a pro-player or veteran member of this community exiled or end up on the recieving end of some vicious hatred because they sought to shed some light on some shady business. That reaction would undoubtably give pause to anyone in the future who is considering publishing evidence of a player cheating. Even if you believe the allegations were wrong this time, next time they may not be--and there may be real evidence of it--and we may never know of it because individuals in the community are too afraid to share it. Let's not foster that environment.
Gheed, mods, everyone else: let's keep this guys identity a secret. He doesn't deserve what would be coming to him should his real identity be exposed. I realize that there is an impulse of curiosity here, a puzzle that needs solving. But it's best to leave this one a mystery. Whistleblowers are good things, what the community chose to do with the information published was the problem this time, nothing more.
Quite frankly, i'm doing it for my own curiosity. While I do think it is distasteful to hide your identity when throwing a large accusation; that is not my motive here. My motive is to simply know.
Honestly, there was little reason for him to hide. If correct, he was a hero. If wrong, he was among a sea of people accusing others of hacking.
You know what they say about what killed the cat? :S
Obviously there's nothing I nor anyone else can do to prevent you from e-stalking this guy. But nothing good can come out of revealing his real identity, but I can think of about half a dozen ill outcomes. Not the least of which is a new witch-hunt against someone else and a whole dredging up of all this drama again. Just remember that.
Realistically, the identity of the OP has nothing to do with the issue, which is whether Spades hacked or not. Was his post controversial? Yes. But it wasn't baseless mud slinging either, whether the accusations are true or not the OP did do a decent job of backing up his claim. He then left completely, leaving everyone to judge for themselves. It was not the OP that pushed the matter into a witch hunt and it was not the OP driving the underlying drama--the rest of the community is responsible for that. He should not be made out as a scape goat.
He had evidence that he believed proved grossly dishonest behavior of a pro player. Whether or not Spades did it, the OP made that information public for everyone to judge for themselves. There's nothing wrong with that, and releasing his identity will only serve to encourage people to keep quiet when they believe the see dishonest behavior. It's time to put the whole mess behind us, if there are unanswered questions so what? The issue was about Spade's maphacking, that can be determined without any additional information about the OP.
-edit: Btw, let's be honest. When you say you are doing this for "curiosity" what you really mean is you're doing this for fun. Which is pretty much the same reason why everyone gets involved in these which-hunt threads in the first place, it's fun and full of juicy edrama. Well, take some time to judge the consequences of what your actions could have.
There is an ethical issue involved if he is who we think he is, conflict of interest one might say since the original replays gave no hard evidence of cheating. It was only with another ~120 replays provided by Spades and others that it became clear to most of the people who are qualified enough to have an opinion that he was indeed cheating. I can't speak to the truth of the allegations, although I do think they are true based on what I have heard from the pros. Instead I can look into the possible reasons that Drolets posted what he did. I am doing that with some help from others in the community. If I do discover the identity of Drolets I plan on confronting him through private pathways (PM or email) and getting an explanation of why he posted what he did. If I am satisfied, or not, I do not plan on revealing his identity to the community as a whole. I will however release his reasoning so that we can all understand the background to this mess and make it clear that there is some accountability within this community.
So you've nominated yourself judge and jury? And what if you're wrong? You get to cause a bunch of edrama and attempt to fuck up someone else's career here?
Why would this person even release their reasoning to you? It's highly unlikely that this person would actually respond to you as that's essentially validating you're right. More than likely even if it was the right person they'd deny it knowing there was no way you could prove it was them (without TL's IP records). So we start another witch-hunt arguing over some scraps of information with half the community calling for blood. In what universe does this sound like a good outcome??
I don't know what ethical issues you're talking about, but if you agree that he was really hacking what possible ethical issues could there exist that would justify re-starting all this crap? If it was someone who was slated to play Spades in an upcoming tournament, yeah I could understand why they would want to release the info as they don't want to lose unfairly; even a fellow teammate or pro player I can completely understand their desire to purge hackers from their community. And any issues with timing (such as replacing Spades in a tournament) are all circumstantial evidence that may just be a fluke of timing. Realistically, you have no solid information about their motives and they won't tell you anway. So what's the end game here? To open a new thread that turns into another clusterfuck of edrama that resolves nothing? Because that's the only realistic outcome here.
Let this shit die and let's get on with our lives. There's far more important things going on this weekend than this Spade's crap.
So it's ok for other people to become judge and jury with only circumstantial evidence, but when not agreeing with the majority, it's not ok because you fuck up someone elses career? What about Spades career, should the accusations not hold?
Of course there's nothing wrong with purging hackers from their community, as long as you have a solid foundation to stand on. To throw wild accusations based on circumstantial evidence not only shatters a players career, but also makes the whole scene implode.
On June 06 2012 00:01 RaGe wrote: I'd like to note that his IP actually does match other TL accounts. NrGMonk is still an inexperienced banling and didn't really use the full IP matching functionality we have.
The mods have a decent idea of who it is, and are discussing whether or not to reveal this information. It's likely we'll make a statement on the entire situation (not just the drama itself, but also the way it was handled) in the coming days.
I sincerly hope you all don't do so. There are very strong laws proteting the rights of whistleblowers for very good reasons. Blowback from the allegations can put the whistleblower at risk and strongly discourage anyone from doing it again.
If this guy is anyone of note, revealing (or figuring out) his real identity would undoubtedly result in widespread harassment by Spade's fans and those individuals who believe Spade's is innocent. That type of activity could potentially disuade anyone from coming forward in the future with information concerning maphacking or dishonest behavior in the pro scene. These were not baseless claims, they were well founded accusations that this individuals brought forward with convincingly good intentions.
Whether they are true or not, that type of activity should not be discouraged, if someone believes very strongly they have evidence of wrong-doing, that information should be brought forward for everyone to see. Whether that person's reputations is forever harmed or not is the fault of the community at large and not this individual; as the cleche goes he is only "the messenger". What the community decides to do with that message is what give rise to the "witch-hunt" mentality. Though there are still plenty who are going to blame this guy for "ruining" Spade's career, when in fact all he did was write a short thread and attach some replays.
That's exactly why it's extremely important to protect his identity. I don't want to see a pro-player or veteran member of this community exiled or end up on the recieving end of some vicious hatred because they sought to shed some light on some shady business. That reaction would undoubtably give pause to anyone in the future who is considering publishing evidence of a player cheating. Even if you believe the allegations were wrong this time, next time they may not be--and there may be real evidence of it--and we may never know of it because individuals in the community are too afraid to share it. Let's not foster that environment.
Gheed, mods, everyone else: let's keep this guys identity a secret. He doesn't deserve what would be coming to him should his real identity be exposed. I realize that there is an impulse of curiosity here, a puzzle that needs solving. But it's best to leave this one a mystery. Whistleblowers are good things, what the community chose to do with the information published was the problem this time, nothing more.
Quite frankly, i'm doing it for my own curiosity. While I do think it is distasteful to hide your identity when throwing a large accusation; that is not my motive here. My motive is to simply know.
Honestly, there was little reason for him to hide. If correct, he was a hero. If wrong, he was among a sea of people accusing others of hacking.
You know what they say about what killed the cat? :S
Obviously there's nothing I nor anyone else can do to prevent you from e-stalking this guy. But nothing good can come out of revealing his real identity, but I can think of about half a dozen ill outcomes. Not the least of which is a new witch-hunt against someone else and a whole dredging up of all this drama again. Just remember that.
Realistically, the identity of the OP has nothing to do with the issue, which is whether Spades hacked or not. Was his post controversial? Yes. But it wasn't baseless mud slinging either, whether the accusations are true or not the OP did do a decent job of backing up his claim. He then left completely, leaving everyone to judge for themselves. It was not the OP that pushed the matter into a witch hunt and it was not the OP driving the underlying drama--the rest of the community is responsible for that. He should not be made out as a scape goat.
He had evidence that he believed proved grossly dishonest behavior of a pro player. Whether or not Spades did it, the OP made that information public for everyone to judge for themselves. There's nothing wrong with that, and releasing his identity will only serve to encourage people to keep quiet when they believe the see dishonest behavior. It's time to put the whole mess behind us, if there are unanswered questions so what? The issue was about Spade's maphacking, that can be determined without any additional information about the OP.
What the OP did was mudslinging, not whistleblowing. Whistleblowing entails contacting a relevant authority with evidence, and then said authority decides whether to pursue the case. In this case, the OP publicly posted the replays without consulting anyone prior. We know that most of the stuff mentioned were baseless accusations, and Spades was found to be guilty after more replays were dug up and discrepancies found. The OP was fortunate that real evidence got dug up, because if Spades was found innocent the damage has already been done. Public apologies by Catz et al. would be insufficient to repair the damage.
If a person is going to sling accusations without 100% proof, then he better be prepared to face the consequences if he's proven wrong. If you want to remain anonymous, consult a second, third professional opinion and come to a consensus before releasing this information public.
By this definition, when Rekrul published the information about matchfixing in BW he was just "mudslinging". Deep Throat, the guy who exposed Nixson was just "mudslinging". Really?
And Who's the relevant athority? Kespa? TL? Neither of them have an ounce of authority over Spades.
How can you say the accusations were baseless if you agree they turned out to be true? Are you going to argue that we'd really be better off with an egrigious maphacker in the community? Because if he hadn't posted that thread, that's exactly where we'd be. It's highly unlikely TL or anyone else would've stepped in to do something about it.
And holy hell, if posting unconfirmed information publically is wrong, then posting this guy's real identity is also wrong.
On June 06 2012 00:01 RaGe wrote: I'd like to note that his IP actually does match other TL accounts. NrGMonk is still an inexperienced banling and didn't really use the full IP matching functionality we have.
The mods have a decent idea of who it is, and are discussing whether or not to reveal this information. It's likely we'll make a statement on the entire situation (not just the drama itself, but also the way it was handled) in the coming days.
I sincerly hope you all don't do so. There are very strong laws proteting the rights of whistleblowers for very good reasons. Blowback from the allegations can put the whistleblower at risk and strongly discourage anyone from doing it again.
If this guy is anyone of note, revealing (or figuring out) his real identity would undoubtedly result in widespread harassment by Spade's fans and those individuals who believe Spade's is innocent. That type of activity could potentially disuade anyone from coming forward in the future with information concerning maphacking or dishonest behavior in the pro scene. These were not baseless claims, they were well founded accusations that this individuals brought forward with convincingly good intentions.
Whether they are true or not, that type of activity should not be discouraged, if someone believes very strongly they have evidence of wrong-doing, that information should be brought forward for everyone to see. Whether that person's reputations is forever harmed or not is the fault of the community at large and not this individual; as the cleche goes he is only "the messenger". What the community decides to do with that message is what give rise to the "witch-hunt" mentality. Though there are still plenty who are going to blame this guy for "ruining" Spade's career, when in fact all he did was write a short thread and attach some replays.
That's exactly why it's extremely important to protect his identity. I don't want to see a pro-player or veteran member of this community exiled or end up on the recieving end of some vicious hatred because they sought to shed some light on some shady business. That reaction would undoubtably give pause to anyone in the future who is considering publishing evidence of a player cheating. Even if you believe the allegations were wrong this time, next time they may not be--and there may be real evidence of it--and we may never know of it because individuals in the community are too afraid to share it. Let's not foster that environment.
Gheed, mods, everyone else: let's keep this guys identity a secret. He doesn't deserve what would be coming to him should his real identity be exposed. I realize that there is an impulse of curiosity here, a puzzle that needs solving. But it's best to leave this one a mystery. Whistleblowers are good things, what the community chose to do with the information published was the problem this time, nothing more.
Quite frankly, i'm doing it for my own curiosity. While I do think it is distasteful to hide your identity when throwing a large accusation; that is not my motive here. My motive is to simply know.
Honestly, there was little reason for him to hide. If correct, he was a hero. If wrong, he was among a sea of people accusing others of hacking.
You know what they say about what killed the cat? :S
Obviously there's nothing I nor anyone else can do to prevent you from e-stalking this guy. But nothing good can come out of revealing his real identity, but I can think of about half a dozen ill outcomes. Not the least of which is a new witch-hunt against someone else and a whole dredging up of all this drama again. Just remember that.
Realistically, the identity of the OP has nothing to do with the issue, which is whether Spades hacked or not. Was his post controversial? Yes. But it wasn't baseless mud slinging either, whether the accusations are true or not the OP did do a decent job of backing up his claim. He then left completely, leaving everyone to judge for themselves. It was not the OP that pushed the matter into a witch hunt and it was not the OP driving the underlying drama--the rest of the community is responsible for that. He should not be made out as a scape goat.
He had evidence that he believed proved grossly dishonest behavior of a pro player. Whether or not Spades did it, the OP made that information public for everyone to judge for themselves. There's nothing wrong with that, and releasing his identity will only serve to encourage people to keep quiet when they believe the see dishonest behavior. It's time to put the whole mess behind us, if there are unanswered questions so what? The issue was about Spade's maphacking, that can be determined without any additional information about the OP.
-edit: Btw, let's be honest. When you say you are doing this for "curiosity" what you really mean is you're doing this for fun. Which is pretty much the same reason why everyone gets involved in these which-hunt threads in the first place, it's fun and full of juicy edrama. Well, take some time to judge the consequences of what your actions could have.
Personally I believe it's not an issue about making information public, but the suggestive methods, and the inconclusiveness of the first provided "evidence" in the OP of the spades-thread, makes me want to get to the bottom of this. I personally believe there's an ulterior motive behind this. As to whether spades actually uses unfair methods to gain an advantage, I cannot answer, since I'm not only unfamiliar with the program, but inexperienced with the game itself. What irritates me though, is that people takes other peoples word for it. "Oh [progamer] says this, then this must be true." Sure, being a professional player gives you experience, but I can't see why words from someone that's not familiar with the programs used should matter at all. If not anything, suggestive methods, and the idea of having experienced players who people looks up to comment on it, makes it impossible for someone fairly interested in the scene to be unbiased, which clouds peoples judgement heavily. Not just that, but like in so many games, going against the general crowd will deem you either a "nap", or they'll simply accuse you of being a fanboy of Spades.
It's common psychology and mob-mentality.
Now, as specified above, I do believe there's an ulterior motive behind this whole witch-hunt. If there is, shouldn't the person behind this take responsibility? My reasoning is that if we won't allow hackers, why allow people to discredit other players with mudslinging and wild accusations? As stated in previous reply on page 9, it will only make things worse for the scene.
Regards // Emil 'n3uro' Svensson, still not anonymous, even though it's only my third post.
Again, if you agree the allegations turned out to be real, how can you argue they were "wild" or unfounded? Do you really think this person just picked out one guy to randomly accuse who then by some crazy stroke of luck turned out to really be a hacker??? Obviously the OP knew for certain that the guy was cheating and perhaps just didn't post the best replays--or enough of them. In which case, are we really going to go after him for not attaching enough replays to his post? Obviously additional replays weren't hard to find by anyone seeking them, so what's the issue?
And what if there was an ulterior motive, so what? Does that really excuse Spade's behavior? Should someone be punished for reporting a crime because they might benefit by doing so? This argument doesn't hold up IMO. And frankly, by getting a hacker out of the community, everyone benefits.
Let the drama die down and get back to normal. We don't need any more witch hunts on the account of Spades.
On June 06 2012 00:01 RaGe wrote: I'd like to note that his IP actually does match other TL accounts. NrGMonk is still an inexperienced banling and didn't really use the full IP matching functionality we have.
The mods have a decent idea of who it is, and are discussing whether or not to reveal this information. It's likely we'll make a statement on the entire situation (not just the drama itself, but also the way it was handled) in the coming days.
I sincerly hope you all don't do so. There are very strong laws proteting the rights of whistleblowers for very good reasons. Blowback from the allegations can put the whistleblower at risk and strongly discourage anyone from doing it again.
If this guy is anyone of note, revealing (or figuring out) his real identity would undoubtedly result in widespread harassment by Spade's fans and those individuals who believe Spade's is innocent. That type of activity could potentially disuade anyone from coming forward in the future with information concerning maphacking or dishonest behavior in the pro scene. These were not baseless claims, they were well founded accusations that this individuals brought forward with convincingly good intentions.
Whether they are true or not, that type of activity should not be discouraged, if someone believes very strongly they have evidence of wrong-doing, that information should be brought forward for everyone to see. Whether that person's reputations is forever harmed or not is the fault of the community at large and not this individual; as the cleche goes he is only "the messenger". What the community decides to do with that message is what give rise to the "witch-hunt" mentality. Though there are still plenty who are going to blame this guy for "ruining" Spade's career, when in fact all he did was write a short thread and attach some replays.
That's exactly why it's extremely important to protect his identity. I don't want to see a pro-player or veteran member of this community exiled or end up on the recieving end of some vicious hatred because they sought to shed some light on some shady business. That reaction would undoubtably give pause to anyone in the future who is considering publishing evidence of a player cheating. Even if you believe the allegations were wrong this time, next time they may not be--and there may be real evidence of it--and we may never know of it because individuals in the community are too afraid to share it. Let's not foster that environment.
Gheed, mods, everyone else: let's keep this guys identity a secret. He doesn't deserve what would be coming to him should his real identity be exposed. I realize that there is an impulse of curiosity here, a puzzle that needs solving. But it's best to leave this one a mystery. Whistleblowers are good things, what the community chose to do with the information published was the problem this time, nothing more.
Quite frankly, i'm doing it for my own curiosity. While I do think it is distasteful to hide your identity when throwing a large accusation; that is not my motive here. My motive is to simply know.
Honestly, there was little reason for him to hide. If correct, he was a hero. If wrong, he was among a sea of people accusing others of hacking.
You know what they say about what killed the cat? :S
Obviously there's nothing I nor anyone else can do to prevent you from e-stalking this guy. But nothing good can come out of revealing his real identity, but I can think of about half a dozen ill outcomes. Not the least of which is a new witch-hunt against someone else and a whole dredging up of all this drama again. Just remember that.
Realistically, the identity of the OP has nothing to do with the issue, which is whether Spades hacked or not. Was his post controversial? Yes. But it wasn't baseless mud slinging either, whether the accusations are true or not the OP did do a decent job of backing up his claim. He then left completely, leaving everyone to judge for themselves. It was not the OP that pushed the matter into a witch hunt and it was not the OP driving the underlying drama--the rest of the community is responsible for that. He should not be made out as a scape goat.
He had evidence that he believed proved grossly dishonest behavior of a pro player. Whether or not Spades did it, the OP made that information public for everyone to judge for themselves. There's nothing wrong with that, and releasing his identity will only serve to encourage people to keep quiet when they believe the see dishonest behavior. It's time to put the whole mess behind us, if there are unanswered questions so what? The issue was about Spade's maphacking, that can be determined without any additional information about the OP.
-edit: Btw, let's be honest. When you say you are doing this for "curiosity" what you really mean is you're doing this for fun. Which is pretty much the same reason why everyone gets involved in these which-hunt threads in the first place, it's fun and full of juicy edrama. Well, take some time to judge the consequences of what your actions could have.
There is an ethical issue involved if he is who we think he is, conflict of interest one might say since the original replays gave no hard evidence of cheating. It was only with another ~120 replays provided by Spades and others that it became clear to most of the people who are qualified enough to have an opinion that he was indeed cheating. I can't speak to the truth of the allegations, although I do think they are true based on what I have heard from the pros. Instead I can look into the possible reasons that Drolets posted what he did. I am doing that with some help from others in the community. If I do discover the identity of Drolets I plan on confronting him through private pathways (PM or email) and getting an explanation of why he posted what he did. If I am satisfied, or not, I do not plan on revealing his identity to the community as a whole. I will however release his reasoning so that we can all understand the background to this mess and make it clear that there is some accountability within this community.
So you've nominated yourself judge and jury? And what if you're wrong? You get to cause a bunch of edrama and attempt to fuck up someone else's career here?
Why would this person even release their reasoning to you? It's highly unlikely that this person would actually respond to you as that's essentially validating you're right. More than likely even if it was the right person they'd deny it knowing there was no way you could prove it was them (without TL's IP records). So we start another witch-hunt arguing over some scraps of information with half the community calling for blood. In what universe does this sound like a good outcome??
I don't know what ethical issues you're talking about, but if you agree that he was really hacking what possible ethical issues could there exist that would justify re-starting all this crap? If it was someone who was slated to play Spades in an upcoming tournament, yeah I could understand why they would want to release the info as they don't want to lose unfairly; even a fellow teammate or pro player I can completely understand their desire to purge hackers from their community. And any issues with timing (such as replacing Spades in a tournament) are all circumstantial evidence that may just be a fluke of timing. Realistically, you have no solid information about their motives and they won't tell you anway. So what's the end game here? To open a new thread that turns into another clusterfuck of edrama that resolves nothing? Because that's the only realistic outcome here.
Let this shit die and let's get on with our lives. There's far more important things going on this weekend than this Spade's crap.
I'm simply the only person interested enough to do the work.
My end game, as you say, is lacking and I don't expect to get a resolution except with the TL IPs. However I believe that I am right; if I get enough proof I will attempt to contact the real Drolets directly, I will not reveal his identity to the TL community, I will ask him to make a statement either to me or to the community about his use of the Drolets account instead of his own.
Unlike him I will take my accusations to the authorities and leave the public out of it. Originally I was going to out whoever it was and gloat about having figured it out but as I dug deeper I realized that I don't particularly want to start another mud slinging event. I want the answers and I think that the community deserves them. I won't force his hand though, I don't want to create more drama. I doubt he will answer me straight but, as long as some people know who he is, there is a level of accountability. It seems as though he was right in his accusations but I don't think he handled it well, if you have that sort of information you should give it to the team, some other players and another team get outside opinions and post all the information. What I want is the next time someone calls someone out for being a cheater they have the common decency to have the trial behind the scenes instead of in the open. The mob hate made it impossible for Spades to prove his innocence and tainted the result of the whole investigation. My hope is that next time someone will take their replays to a group of pro players and have them all analyze those replays and post the collective result of their analysis. Not one man's exaggerated beliefs.
On June 06 2012 00:01 RaGe wrote: I'd like to note that his IP actually does match other TL accounts. NrGMonk is still an inexperienced banling and didn't really use the full IP matching functionality we have.
The mods have a decent idea of who it is, and are discussing whether or not to reveal this information. It's likely we'll make a statement on the entire situation (not just the drama itself, but also the way it was handled) in the coming days.
I sincerly hope you all don't do so. There are very strong laws proteting the rights of whistleblowers for very good reasons. Blowback from the allegations can put the whistleblower at risk and strongly discourage anyone from doing it again.
If this guy is anyone of note, revealing (or figuring out) his real identity would undoubtedly result in widespread harassment by Spade's fans and those individuals who believe Spade's is innocent. That type of activity could potentially disuade anyone from coming forward in the future with information concerning maphacking or dishonest behavior in the pro scene. These were not baseless claims, they were well founded accusations that this individuals brought forward with convincingly good intentions.
Whether they are true or not, that type of activity should not be discouraged, if someone believes very strongly they have evidence of wrong-doing, that information should be brought forward for everyone to see. Whether that person's reputations is forever harmed or not is the fault of the community at large and not this individual; as the cleche goes he is only "the messenger". What the community decides to do with that message is what give rise to the "witch-hunt" mentality. Though there are still plenty who are going to blame this guy for "ruining" Spade's career, when in fact all he did was write a short thread and attach some replays.
That's exactly why it's extremely important to protect his identity. I don't want to see a pro-player or veteran member of this community exiled or end up on the recieving end of some vicious hatred because they sought to shed some light on some shady business. That reaction would undoubtably give pause to anyone in the future who is considering publishing evidence of a player cheating. Even if you believe the allegations were wrong this time, next time they may not be--and there may be real evidence of it--and we may never know of it because individuals in the community are too afraid to share it. Let's not foster that environment.
Gheed, mods, everyone else: let's keep this guys identity a secret. He doesn't deserve what would be coming to him should his real identity be exposed. I realize that there is an impulse of curiosity here, a puzzle that needs solving. But it's best to leave this one a mystery. Whistleblowers are good things, what the community chose to do with the information published was the problem this time, nothing more.
Quite frankly, i'm doing it for my own curiosity. While I do think it is distasteful to hide your identity when throwing a large accusation; that is not my motive here. My motive is to simply know.
Honestly, there was little reason for him to hide. If correct, he was a hero. If wrong, he was among a sea of people accusing others of hacking.
You know what they say about what killed the cat? :S
Obviously there's nothing I nor anyone else can do to prevent you from e-stalking this guy. But nothing good can come out of revealing his real identity, but I can think of about half a dozen ill outcomes. Not the least of which is a new witch-hunt against someone else and a whole dredging up of all this drama again. Just remember that.
Realistically, the identity of the OP has nothing to do with the issue, which is whether Spades hacked or not. Was his post controversial? Yes. But it wasn't baseless mud slinging either, whether the accusations are true or not the OP did do a decent job of backing up his claim. He then left completely, leaving everyone to judge for themselves. It was not the OP that pushed the matter into a witch hunt and it was not the OP driving the underlying drama--the rest of the community is responsible for that. He should not be made out as a scape goat.
He had evidence that he believed proved grossly dishonest behavior of a pro player. Whether or not Spades did it, the OP made that information public for everyone to judge for themselves. There's nothing wrong with that, and releasing his identity will only serve to encourage people to keep quiet when they believe the see dishonest behavior. It's time to put the whole mess behind us, if there are unanswered questions so what? The issue was about Spade's maphacking, that can be determined without any additional information about the OP.
-edit: Btw, let's be honest. When you say you are doing this for "curiosity" what you really mean is you're doing this for fun. Which is pretty much the same reason why everyone gets involved in these which-hunt threads in the first place, it's fun and full of juicy edrama. Well, take some time to judge the consequences of what your actions could have.
There is an ethical issue involved if he is who we think he is, conflict of interest one might say since the original replays gave no hard evidence of cheating. It was only with another ~120 replays provided by Spades and others that it became clear to most of the people who are qualified enough to have an opinion that he was indeed cheating. I can't speak to the truth of the allegations, although I do think they are true based on what I have heard from the pros. Instead I can look into the possible reasons that Drolets posted what he did. I am doing that with some help from others in the community. If I do discover the identity of Drolets I plan on confronting him through private pathways (PM or email) and getting an explanation of why he posted what he did. If I am satisfied, or not, I do not plan on revealing his identity to the community as a whole. I will however release his reasoning so that we can all understand the background to this mess and make it clear that there is some accountability within this community.
So you've nominated yourself judge and jury? And what if you're wrong? You get to cause a bunch of edrama and attempt to fuck up someone else's career here?
Why would this person even release their reasoning to you? It's highly unlikely that this person would actually respond to you as that's essentially validating you're right. More than likely even if it was the right person they'd deny it knowing there was no way you could prove it was them (without TL's IP records). So we start another witch-hunt arguing over some scraps of information with half the community calling for blood. In what universe does this sound like a good outcome??
I don't know what ethical issues you're talking about, but if you agree that he was really hacking what possible ethical issues could there exist that would justify re-starting all this crap? If it was someone who was slated to play Spades in an upcoming tournament, yeah I could understand why they would want to release the info as they don't want to lose unfairly; even a fellow teammate or pro player I can completely understand their desire to purge hackers from their community. And any issues with timing (such as replacing Spades in a tournament) are all circumstantial evidence that may just be a fluke of timing. Realistically, you have no solid information about their motives and they won't tell you anway. So what's the end game here? To open a new thread that turns into another clusterfuck of edrama that resolves nothing? Because that's the only realistic outcome here.
Let this shit die and let's get on with our lives. There's far more important things going on this weekend than this Spade's crap.
I'm simply the only person interested enough to do the work.
My end game, as you say, is lacking and I don't expect to get a resolution except with the TL IPs. However I believe that I am right; if I get enough proof I will attempt to contact the real Drolets directly, I will not reveal his identity to the TL community, I will ask him to make a statement either to me or to the community about his use of the Drolets account instead of his own.
Unlike him I will take my accusations to the authorities and leave the public out of it. Originally I was going to out whoever it was and gloat about having figured it out but as I dug deeper I realized that I don't particularly want to start another mud slinging event. I want the answers and I think that the community deserves them. I won't force his hand though, I don't want to create more drama. I doubt he will answer me straight but, as long as some people know who he is, there is a level of accountability. It seems as though he was right in his accusations but I don't think he handled it well, if you have that sort of information you should give it to the team, some other players and another team get outside opinions and post all the information. What I want is the next time someone calls someone out for being a cheater they have the common decency to have the trial behind the scenes instead of in the open. The mob hate made it impossible for Spades to prove his innocence and tainted the result of the whole investigation. My hope is that next time someone will take their replays to a group of pro players and have them all analyze those replays and post the collective result of their analysis. Not one man's exaggerated beliefs.
Your approach is the way drolets should have handled it all along. It is good that we expose hackers, but doing so on the TL forums, or any public manner, is the wrong way to go about it.
On June 06 2012 00:01 RaGe wrote: I'd like to note that his IP actually does match other TL accounts. NrGMonk is still an inexperienced banling and didn't really use the full IP matching functionality we have.
The mods have a decent idea of who it is, and are discussing whether or not to reveal this information. It's likely we'll make a statement on the entire situation (not just the drama itself, but also the way it was handled) in the coming days.
I sincerly hope you all don't do so. There are very strong laws proteting the rights of whistleblowers for very good reasons. Blowback from the allegations can put the whistleblower at risk and strongly discourage anyone from doing it again.
If this guy is anyone of note, revealing (or figuring out) his real identity would undoubtedly result in widespread harassment by Spade's fans and those individuals who believe Spade's is innocent. That type of activity could potentially disuade anyone from coming forward in the future with information concerning maphacking or dishonest behavior in the pro scene. These were not baseless claims, they were well founded accusations that this individuals brought forward with convincingly good intentions.
Whether they are true or not, that type of activity should not be discouraged, if someone believes very strongly they have evidence of wrong-doing, that information should be brought forward for everyone to see. Whether that person's reputations is forever harmed or not is the fault of the community at large and not this individual; as the cleche goes he is only "the messenger". What the community decides to do with that message is what give rise to the "witch-hunt" mentality. Though there are still plenty who are going to blame this guy for "ruining" Spade's career, when in fact all he did was write a short thread and attach some replays.
That's exactly why it's extremely important to protect his identity. I don't want to see a pro-player or veteran member of this community exiled or end up on the recieving end of some vicious hatred because they sought to shed some light on some shady business. That reaction would undoubtably give pause to anyone in the future who is considering publishing evidence of a player cheating. Even if you believe the allegations were wrong this time, next time they may not be--and there may be real evidence of it--and we may never know of it because individuals in the community are too afraid to share it. Let's not foster that environment.
Gheed, mods, everyone else: let's keep this guys identity a secret. He doesn't deserve what would be coming to him should his real identity be exposed. I realize that there is an impulse of curiosity here, a puzzle that needs solving. But it's best to leave this one a mystery. Whistleblowers are good things, what the community chose to do with the information published was the problem this time, nothing more.
Quite frankly, i'm doing it for my own curiosity. While I do think it is distasteful to hide your identity when throwing a large accusation; that is not my motive here. My motive is to simply know.
Honestly, there was little reason for him to hide. If correct, he was a hero. If wrong, he was among a sea of people accusing others of hacking.
You know what they say about what killed the cat? :S
Obviously there's nothing I nor anyone else can do to prevent you from e-stalking this guy. But nothing good can come out of revealing his real identity, but I can think of about half a dozen ill outcomes. Not the least of which is a new witch-hunt against someone else and a whole dredging up of all this drama again. Just remember that.
Realistically, the identity of the OP has nothing to do with the issue, which is whether Spades hacked or not. Was his post controversial? Yes. But it wasn't baseless mud slinging either, whether the accusations are true or not the OP did do a decent job of backing up his claim. He then left completely, leaving everyone to judge for themselves. It was not the OP that pushed the matter into a witch hunt and it was not the OP driving the underlying drama--the rest of the community is responsible for that. He should not be made out as a scape goat.
He had evidence that he believed proved grossly dishonest behavior of a pro player. Whether or not Spades did it, the OP made that information public for everyone to judge for themselves. There's nothing wrong with that, and releasing his identity will only serve to encourage people to keep quiet when they believe the see dishonest behavior. It's time to put the whole mess behind us, if there are unanswered questions so what? The issue was about Spade's maphacking, that can be determined without any additional information about the OP.
What the OP did was mudslinging, not whistleblowing. Whistleblowing entails contacting a relevant authority with evidence, and then said authority decides whether to pursue the case. In this case, the OP publicly posted the replays without consulting anyone prior. We know that most of the stuff mentioned were baseless accusations, and Spades was found to be guilty after more replays were dug up and discrepancies found. The OP was fortunate that real evidence got dug up, because if Spades was found innocent the damage has already been done. Public apologies by Catz et al. would be insufficient to repair the damage.
If a person is going to sling accusations without 100% proof, then he better be prepared to face the consequences if he's proven wrong. If you want to remain anonymous, consult a second, third professional opinion and come to a consensus before releasing this information public.
By this definition, when Rekrul published the information about matchfixing in BW he was just "mudslinging". Deep Throat, the guy who exposed Nixson was just "mudslinging". Really?
And Who's the relevant athority? Kespa? TL? Neither of them have an ounce of authority over Spades.
How can you say the accusations were baseless if you agree they turned out to be true? Are you going to argue that we'd really be better off with an egrigious maphacker in the community? Because if he hadn't posted that thread, that's exactly where we'd be. It's highly unlikely TL or anyone else would've stepped in to do something about it.
And holy hell, if posting unconfirmed information publically is wrong, then posting this guy's real identity is also wrong.
On June 06 2012 00:01 RaGe wrote: I'd like to note that his IP actually does match other TL accounts. NrGMonk is still an inexperienced banling and didn't really use the full IP matching functionality we have.
The mods have a decent idea of who it is, and are discussing whether or not to reveal this information. It's likely we'll make a statement on the entire situation (not just the drama itself, but also the way it was handled) in the coming days.
I sincerly hope you all don't do so. There are very strong laws proteting the rights of whistleblowers for very good reasons. Blowback from the allegations can put the whistleblower at risk and strongly discourage anyone from doing it again.
If this guy is anyone of note, revealing (or figuring out) his real identity would undoubtedly result in widespread harassment by Spade's fans and those individuals who believe Spade's is innocent. That type of activity could potentially disuade anyone from coming forward in the future with information concerning maphacking or dishonest behavior in the pro scene. These were not baseless claims, they were well founded accusations that this individuals brought forward with convincingly good intentions.
Whether they are true or not, that type of activity should not be discouraged, if someone believes very strongly they have evidence of wrong-doing, that information should be brought forward for everyone to see. Whether that person's reputations is forever harmed or not is the fault of the community at large and not this individual; as the cleche goes he is only "the messenger". What the community decides to do with that message is what give rise to the "witch-hunt" mentality. Though there are still plenty who are going to blame this guy for "ruining" Spade's career, when in fact all he did was write a short thread and attach some replays.
That's exactly why it's extremely important to protect his identity. I don't want to see a pro-player or veteran member of this community exiled or end up on the recieving end of some vicious hatred because they sought to shed some light on some shady business. That reaction would undoubtably give pause to anyone in the future who is considering publishing evidence of a player cheating. Even if you believe the allegations were wrong this time, next time they may not be--and there may be real evidence of it--and we may never know of it because individuals in the community are too afraid to share it. Let's not foster that environment.
Gheed, mods, everyone else: let's keep this guys identity a secret. He doesn't deserve what would be coming to him should his real identity be exposed. I realize that there is an impulse of curiosity here, a puzzle that needs solving. But it's best to leave this one a mystery. Whistleblowers are good things, what the community chose to do with the information published was the problem this time, nothing more.
Quite frankly, i'm doing it for my own curiosity. While I do think it is distasteful to hide your identity when throwing a large accusation; that is not my motive here. My motive is to simply know.
Honestly, there was little reason for him to hide. If correct, he was a hero. If wrong, he was among a sea of people accusing others of hacking.
You know what they say about what killed the cat? :S
Obviously there's nothing I nor anyone else can do to prevent you from e-stalking this guy. But nothing good can come out of revealing his real identity, but I can think of about half a dozen ill outcomes. Not the least of which is a new witch-hunt against someone else and a whole dredging up of all this drama again. Just remember that.
Realistically, the identity of the OP has nothing to do with the issue, which is whether Spades hacked or not. Was his post controversial? Yes. But it wasn't baseless mud slinging either, whether the accusations are true or not the OP did do a decent job of backing up his claim. He then left completely, leaving everyone to judge for themselves. It was not the OP that pushed the matter into a witch hunt and it was not the OP driving the underlying drama--the rest of the community is responsible for that. He should not be made out as a scape goat.
He had evidence that he believed proved grossly dishonest behavior of a pro player. Whether or not Spades did it, the OP made that information public for everyone to judge for themselves. There's nothing wrong with that, and releasing his identity will only serve to encourage people to keep quiet when they believe the see dishonest behavior. It's time to put the whole mess behind us, if there are unanswered questions so what? The issue was about Spade's maphacking, that can be determined without any additional information about the OP.
-edit: Btw, let's be honest. When you say you are doing this for "curiosity" what you really mean is you're doing this for fun. Which is pretty much the same reason why everyone gets involved in these which-hunt threads in the first place, it's fun and full of juicy edrama. Well, take some time to judge the consequences of what your actions could have.
Personally I believe it's not an issue about making information public, but the suggestive methods, and the inconclusiveness of the first provided "evidence" in the OP of the spades-thread, makes me want to get to the bottom of this. I personally believe there's an ulterior motive behind this. As to whether spades actually uses unfair methods to gain an advantage, I cannot answer, since I'm not only unfamiliar with the program, but inexperienced with the game itself. What irritates me though, is that people takes other peoples word for it. "Oh [progamer] says this, then this must be true." Sure, being a professional player gives you experience, but I can't see why words from someone that's not familiar with the programs used should matter at all. If not anything, suggestive methods, and the idea of having experienced players who people looks up to comment on it, makes it impossible for someone fairly interested in the scene to be unbiased, which clouds peoples judgement heavily. Not just that, but like in so many games, going against the general crowd will deem you either a "nap", or they'll simply accuse you of being a fanboy of Spades.
It's common psychology and mob-mentality.
Now, as specified above, I do believe there's an ulterior motive behind this whole witch-hunt. If there is, shouldn't the person behind this take responsibility? My reasoning is that if we won't allow hackers, why allow people to discredit other players with mudslinging and wild accusations? As stated in previous reply on page 9, it will only make things worse for the scene.
Regards // Emil 'n3uro' Svensson, still not anonymous, even though it's only my third post.
Again, if you agree the allegations turned out to be real, how can you argue they were "wild" or unfounded? Do you really think this person just picked out one guy to randomly accuse who then by some crazy stroke of luck turned out to really be a hacker??? Obviously the OP knew for certain that the guy was cheating and perhaps just didn't post the best replays--or enough of them. In which case, are we really going to go after him for not attaching enough replays to his post? Obviously additional replays weren't hard to find by anyone seeking them, so what's the issue?
And what if there was an ulterior motive, so what? Does that really excuse Spade's behavior? Should someone be punished for reporting a crime because they might benefit by doing so? This argument doesn't hold up IMO. And frankly, by getting a hacker out of the community, everyone benefits.
Let the drama die down and get back to normal. We don't need any more witch hunts on the account of Spades.
I am unbiased and therefore don't have an opinion about this alleged cheating, which is exactly why I can be unbiased.
On June 06 2012 00:01 RaGe wrote: I'd like to note that his IP actually does match other TL accounts. NrGMonk is still an inexperienced banling and didn't really use the full IP matching functionality we have.
The mods have a decent idea of who it is, and are discussing whether or not to reveal this information. It's likely we'll make a statement on the entire situation (not just the drama itself, but also the way it was handled) in the coming days.
I sincerly hope you all don't do so. There are very strong laws proteting the rights of whistleblowers for very good reasons. Blowback from the allegations can put the whistleblower at risk and strongly discourage anyone from doing it again.
If this guy is anyone of note, revealing (or figuring out) his real identity would undoubtedly result in widespread harassment by Spade's fans and those individuals who believe Spade's is innocent. That type of activity could potentially disuade anyone from coming forward in the future with information concerning maphacking or dishonest behavior in the pro scene. These were not baseless claims, they were well founded accusations that this individuals brought forward with convincingly good intentions.
Whether they are true or not, that type of activity should not be discouraged, if someone believes very strongly they have evidence of wrong-doing, that information should be brought forward for everyone to see. Whether that person's reputations is forever harmed or not is the fault of the community at large and not this individual; as the cleche goes he is only "the messenger". What the community decides to do with that message is what give rise to the "witch-hunt" mentality. Though there are still plenty who are going to blame this guy for "ruining" Spade's career, when in fact all he did was write a short thread and attach some replays.
That's exactly why it's extremely important to protect his identity. I don't want to see a pro-player or veteran member of this community exiled or end up on the recieving end of some vicious hatred because they sought to shed some light on some shady business. That reaction would undoubtably give pause to anyone in the future who is considering publishing evidence of a player cheating. Even if you believe the allegations were wrong this time, next time they may not be--and there may be real evidence of it--and we may never know of it because individuals in the community are too afraid to share it. Let's not foster that environment.
Gheed, mods, everyone else: let's keep this guys identity a secret. He doesn't deserve what would be coming to him should his real identity be exposed. I realize that there is an impulse of curiosity here, a puzzle that needs solving. But it's best to leave this one a mystery. Whistleblowers are good things, what the community chose to do with the information published was the problem this time, nothing more.
Quite frankly, i'm doing it for my own curiosity. While I do think it is distasteful to hide your identity when throwing a large accusation; that is not my motive here. My motive is to simply know.
Honestly, there was little reason for him to hide. If correct, he was a hero. If wrong, he was among a sea of people accusing others of hacking.
You know what they say about what killed the cat? :S
Obviously there's nothing I nor anyone else can do to prevent you from e-stalking this guy. But nothing good can come out of revealing his real identity, but I can think of about half a dozen ill outcomes. Not the least of which is a new witch-hunt against someone else and a whole dredging up of all this drama again. Just remember that.
Realistically, the identity of the OP has nothing to do with the issue, which is whether Spades hacked or not. Was his post controversial? Yes. But it wasn't baseless mud slinging either, whether the accusations are true or not the OP did do a decent job of backing up his claim. He then left completely, leaving everyone to judge for themselves. It was not the OP that pushed the matter into a witch hunt and it was not the OP driving the underlying drama--the rest of the community is responsible for that. He should not be made out as a scape goat.
He had evidence that he believed proved grossly dishonest behavior of a pro player. Whether or not Spades did it, the OP made that information public for everyone to judge for themselves. There's nothing wrong with that, and releasing his identity will only serve to encourage people to keep quiet when they believe the see dishonest behavior. It's time to put the whole mess behind us, if there are unanswered questions so what? The issue was about Spade's maphacking, that can be determined without any additional information about the OP.
What the OP did was mudslinging, not whistleblowing. Whistleblowing entails contacting a relevant authority with evidence, and then said authority decides whether to pursue the case. In this case, the OP publicly posted the replays without consulting anyone prior. We know that most of the stuff mentioned were baseless accusations, and Spades was found to be guilty after more replays were dug up and discrepancies found. The OP was fortunate that real evidence got dug up, because if Spades was found innocent the damage has already been done. Public apologies by Catz et al. would be insufficient to repair the damage.
If a person is going to sling accusations without 100% proof, then he better be prepared to face the consequences if he's proven wrong. If you want to remain anonymous, consult a second, third professional opinion and come to a consensus before releasing this information public.
By this definition, when Rekrul published the information about matchfixing in BW he was just "mudslinging". Deep Throat, the guy who exposed Nixson was just "mudslinging". Really?
And Who's the relevant athority? Kespa? TL? Neither of them have an ounce of authority over Spades.
How can you say the accusations were baseless if you agree they turned out to be true? Are you going to argue that we'd really be better off with an egrigious maphacker in the community? Because if he hadn't posted that thread, that's exactly where we'd be. It's highly unlikely TL or anyone else would've stepped in to do something about it.
And holy hell, if posting unconfirmed information publically is wrong, then posting this guy's real identity is also wrong.
On June 07 2012 05:37 n3uro wrote:
On June 07 2012 05:14 TheToast wrote:
On June 07 2012 05:00 Felnarion wrote:
On June 07 2012 04:56 TheToast wrote:
On June 06 2012 00:01 RaGe wrote: I'd like to note that his IP actually does match other TL accounts. NrGMonk is still an inexperienced banling and didn't really use the full IP matching functionality we have.
The mods have a decent idea of who it is, and are discussing whether or not to reveal this information. It's likely we'll make a statement on the entire situation (not just the drama itself, but also the way it was handled) in the coming days.
I sincerly hope you all don't do so. There are very strong laws proteting the rights of whistleblowers for very good reasons. Blowback from the allegations can put the whistleblower at risk and strongly discourage anyone from doing it again.
If this guy is anyone of note, revealing (or figuring out) his real identity would undoubtedly result in widespread harassment by Spade's fans and those individuals who believe Spade's is innocent. That type of activity could potentially disuade anyone from coming forward in the future with information concerning maphacking or dishonest behavior in the pro scene. These were not baseless claims, they were well founded accusations that this individuals brought forward with convincingly good intentions.
Whether they are true or not, that type of activity should not be discouraged, if someone believes very strongly they have evidence of wrong-doing, that information should be brought forward for everyone to see. Whether that person's reputations is forever harmed or not is the fault of the community at large and not this individual; as the cleche goes he is only "the messenger". What the community decides to do with that message is what give rise to the "witch-hunt" mentality. Though there are still plenty who are going to blame this guy for "ruining" Spade's career, when in fact all he did was write a short thread and attach some replays.
That's exactly why it's extremely important to protect his identity. I don't want to see a pro-player or veteran member of this community exiled or end up on the recieving end of some vicious hatred because they sought to shed some light on some shady business. That reaction would undoubtably give pause to anyone in the future who is considering publishing evidence of a player cheating. Even if you believe the allegations were wrong this time, next time they may not be--and there may be real evidence of it--and we may never know of it because individuals in the community are too afraid to share it. Let's not foster that environment.
Gheed, mods, everyone else: let's keep this guys identity a secret. He doesn't deserve what would be coming to him should his real identity be exposed. I realize that there is an impulse of curiosity here, a puzzle that needs solving. But it's best to leave this one a mystery. Whistleblowers are good things, what the community chose to do with the information published was the problem this time, nothing more.
Quite frankly, i'm doing it for my own curiosity. While I do think it is distasteful to hide your identity when throwing a large accusation; that is not my motive here. My motive is to simply know.
Honestly, there was little reason for him to hide. If correct, he was a hero. If wrong, he was among a sea of people accusing others of hacking.
You know what they say about what killed the cat? :S
Obviously there's nothing I nor anyone else can do to prevent you from e-stalking this guy. But nothing good can come out of revealing his real identity, but I can think of about half a dozen ill outcomes. Not the least of which is a new witch-hunt against someone else and a whole dredging up of all this drama again. Just remember that.
Realistically, the identity of the OP has nothing to do with the issue, which is whether Spades hacked or not. Was his post controversial? Yes. But it wasn't baseless mud slinging either, whether the accusations are true or not the OP did do a decent job of backing up his claim. He then left completely, leaving everyone to judge for themselves. It was not the OP that pushed the matter into a witch hunt and it was not the OP driving the underlying drama--the rest of the community is responsible for that. He should not be made out as a scape goat.
He had evidence that he believed proved grossly dishonest behavior of a pro player. Whether or not Spades did it, the OP made that information public for everyone to judge for themselves. There's nothing wrong with that, and releasing his identity will only serve to encourage people to keep quiet when they believe the see dishonest behavior. It's time to put the whole mess behind us, if there are unanswered questions so what? The issue was about Spade's maphacking, that can be determined without any additional information about the OP.
-edit: Btw, let's be honest. When you say you are doing this for "curiosity" what you really mean is you're doing this for fun. Which is pretty much the same reason why everyone gets involved in these which-hunt threads in the first place, it's fun and full of juicy edrama. Well, take some time to judge the consequences of what your actions could have.
Personally I believe it's not an issue about making information public, but the suggestive methods, and the inconclusiveness of the first provided "evidence" in the OP of the spades-thread, makes me want to get to the bottom of this. I personally believe there's an ulterior motive behind this. As to whether spades actually uses unfair methods to gain an advantage, I cannot answer, since I'm not only unfamiliar with the program, but inexperienced with the game itself. What irritates me though, is that people takes other peoples word for it. "Oh [progamer] says this, then this must be true." Sure, being a professional player gives you experience, but I can't see why words from someone that's not familiar with the programs used should matter at all. If not anything, suggestive methods, and the idea of having experienced players who people looks up to comment on it, makes it impossible for someone fairly interested in the scene to be unbiased, which clouds peoples judgement heavily. Not just that, but like in so many games, going against the general crowd will deem you either a "nap", or they'll simply accuse you of being a fanboy of Spades.
It's common psychology and mob-mentality.
Now, as specified above, I do believe there's an ulterior motive behind this whole witch-hunt. If there is, shouldn't the person behind this take responsibility? My reasoning is that if we won't allow hackers, why allow people to discredit other players with mudslinging and wild accusations? As stated in previous reply on page 9, it will only make things worse for the scene.
Regards // Emil 'n3uro' Svensson, still not anonymous, even though it's only my third post.
Again, if you agree the allegations turned out to be real, how can you argue they were "wild" or unfounded? Do you really think this person just picked out one guy to randomly accuse who then by some crazy stroke of luck turned out to really be a hacker??? Obviously the OP knew for certain that the guy was cheating and perhaps just didn't post the best replays--or enough of them. In which case, are we really going to go after him for not attaching enough replays to his post? Obviously additional replays weren't hard to find by anyone seeking them, so what's the issue?
And what if there was an ulterior motive, so what? Does that really excuse Spade's behavior? Should someone be punished for reporting a crime because they might benefit by doing so? This argument doesn't hold up IMO. And frankly, by getting a hacker out of the community, everyone benefits.
Let the drama die down and get back to normal. We don't need any more witch hunts on the account of Spades.
I am unbiased and therefore don't have an opinion about this alleged cheating, which is exactly why I can be unbiased.
Then create an opinion be reviewing the replays and judging everything yourself before you find out who it is. Surely if someone has a perfectly legitimate accusation they are entitled to anonymity? This is why witness protection schemes are needed, of course this is nowhere near as serious as say in a murder case, but definitely the guy deserves his anonymity since the general consensus now is that Spades did hack (pixel differences between mini-map and terrain as in the thread). I agree with TheToast, this just discourages other people from whistle-blowing if they think it will ruin their reputation if people will hunt down who it is just for "sport".
On June 07 2012 06:50 Fallians wrote: Lol I read this whole thing without realizing gheed wrotre, upon that realization the whole thing got so much better :D 5/5
Hell yeah, we played right into his trap: Witch hunt!
Hi Mr. Gheed, you are a very distinguished gentleman. Also, remind me to never piss you off okay? I've preemptively given up on any future disagreements I may or may not have with you.
It's quite amazing how Gheed can have a totally different view of some things. You're one of those people who like to flip a situation to an entirely different perspective.
Perhaps you have raised more questions than answers?
By this definition, when Rekrul published the information about matchfixing in BW he was just "mudslinging". Deep Throat, the guy who exposed Nixson was just "mudslinging". Really?
1.) Deep Throat sent information to the Washington Post where Woodward and Bernstein followed up on it and published it. This is fundamentally different from what Drolet did. In fact I say it follows the above posters definition quite well.
2.) Rekrul did not register a smurf account to publish information on matchfixing in BW. Clearly he wasn't asking for whistle blower protection.
How can you say the accusations were baseless if you agree they turned out to be true? Are you going to argue that we'd really be better off with an egrigious maphacker in the community? Because if he hadn't posted that thread, that's exactly where we'd be. It's highly unlikely TL or anyone else would've stepped in to do something about it.
If you want to get philosophical. Its better to let a maphacker remain in the community then to drag an innocent person's name through the mud like this. Both situations are bad, but you can't restore someones reputation after they have been accused of hacking. For all the hundreds of pages on the Spades thread there is still only circumstantial evidence (no "smoking gun" to use a phrase from the Watergate era)
Even if drolets ends up being somebody who absolutely HATES Spades, does it even matter? Objective analysis shows quite convincingly of what's going on: he's a hacker. Tons of reputable pros have shown up and put their names on the line by saying so, and they are the least likely to participate in a "witch hunt." Of course my opinion means shit and those of you who don't already believe he hacked won't believe anything I say anyways. But it is so crystal clear that I honestly cannot believe there are even people still on his side. I think it is absolutely absurd.
Either way, this post is so thorough it is LOL. mad props Gheed haha
On June 07 2012 10:36 Klogon wrote: Even if drolets ends up being somebody who absolutely HATES Spades, does it even matter? Objective analysis shows quite convincingly of what's going on: he's a hacker. Tons of reputable pros have shown up and put their names on the line by saying so, and they are the least likely to participate in a "witch hunt." Of course my opinion means shit and those of you who don't already believe he hacked won't believe anything I say anyways. But it is so crystal clear that I honestly cannot believe there are even people still on his side. I think it is absolutely absurd.
Either way, this post is so thorough it is LOL. mad props Gheed haha
Honestly, I think he hacked too. But I truly believe that they way 'Drolets' handled it was totally wrong. I'm not trying to out Drolets to save Spades. I'm trying to out Drolets to change the way we report hacking.
What we need is for the person (pro or no) who finds something they believe is hacking to take that with their proof to a number of pros unrelated to the incident and get their opinions before posting. They need to come forward with solid evidence as one of our founding fathers said: it is better to let 100 guilty men go than to punish one innocent man (I'm paraphrasing and I think it was good ole Tomas Jefferson). It should not be possible to put out flimsy evidence and ruin someone's career which is what happened here, while Drolets was right in saying that Spades was hacking he was not right in saying that he had any substantial proof. It took many more replays and many more people analyzing them to find any real proof.
We need to make it clear that there are right and wrong ways to go about accusing someone of something this serious and that this was very clearly the wrong way.
On June 06 2012 00:01 RaGe wrote: I'd like to note that his IP actually does match other TL accounts. NrGMonk is still an inexperienced banling and didn't really use the full IP matching functionality we have.
The mods have a decent idea of who it is, and are discussing whether or not to reveal this information. It's likely we'll make a statement on the entire situation (not just the drama itself, but also the way it was handled) in the coming days.
I sincerly hope you all don't do so. There are very strong laws proteting the rights of whistleblowers for very good reasons. Blowback from the allegations can put the whistleblower at risk and strongly discourage anyone from doing it again.
If this guy is anyone of note, revealing (or figuring out) his real identity would undoubtedly result in widespread harassment by Spade's fans and those individuals who believe Spade's is innocent. That type of activity could potentially disuade anyone from coming forward in the future with information concerning maphacking or dishonest behavior in the pro scene. These were not baseless claims, they were well founded accusations that this individuals brought forward with convincingly good intentions.
Whether they are true or not, that type of activity should not be discouraged, if someone believes very strongly they have evidence of wrong-doing, that information should be brought forward for everyone to see. Whether that person's reputations is forever harmed or not is the fault of the community at large and not this individual; as the cleche goes he is only "the messenger". What the community decides to do with that message is what give rise to the "witch-hunt" mentality. Though there are still plenty who are going to blame this guy for "ruining" Spade's career, when in fact all he did was write a short thread and attach some replays.
That's exactly why it's extremely important to protect his identity. I don't want to see a pro-player or veteran member of this community exiled or end up on the recieving end of some vicious hatred because they sought to shed some light on some shady business. That reaction would undoubtably give pause to anyone in the future who is considering publishing evidence of a player cheating. Even if you believe the allegations were wrong this time, next time they may not be--and there may be real evidence of it--and we may never know of it because individuals in the community are too afraid to share it. Let's not foster that environment.
Gheed, mods, everyone else: let's keep this guys identity a secret. He doesn't deserve what would be coming to him should his real identity be exposed. I realize that there is an impulse of curiosity here, a puzzle that needs solving. But it's best to leave this one a mystery. Whistleblowers are good things, what the community chose to do with the information published was the problem this time, nothing more.
I'm certainly no Spade fan, but we're all missing an important point: Creating a thread on a new account, to accuse someone of hacking is not only a disservice to Spades, but to ALL of E-sports.
The CORRECT course of action would be to complain to Spade's (ex) team, Western Wolves, IN PRIVATE TO AVOID WITCH HUNTS. Already statements from the team have been made, specifically asking to go to the team's management first...
But hold on a second! this isin't the first time a pro-gaming team has asked the community to contact them regarding their player's behaviors!
On May 08 2012 08:46 QuanticCinergy wrote: No, no, no, no.... Good lord, you guys are so hung up on Destiny, you can't see the larger issue I entered this thread discussing in the first place. I'm not really sure my continued contribution here is needed, you all seem to have this debate in good hands.
The moment you go to sponsors directly, you not only place the ENTIRE TEAM at risk, but you pretty much eliminate the jurisdiction and judgement of the team and it's management, and now you have the sponsor staff dealing with an issue that is overwhelming them, putting their career at risk as well, and pretty much, team management just gets to sit on the sideline and try to decipher if we are going to lose a player, funding we need for the entire team, our brand, our reputation (with player, fans, other teams, etc) Even just in this thread alone, people think I'm defending Steven, which I haven't, that I should have made announcements when the message and the entire dialog, hell even the outcome, wasn't really even manageable by the team at that moment anyhow, and of course, we get what we deserve for even picking up this player in the first place.
I should listen to my PR folks and stay off the forums, lol. You guys just do whatever you feel is best, because from all the productive dialong we have exchanged here today, you are going to do what you want anyhow, regardless of if a single player can bring an entire team down, if it becomes possible to orchestrate attacks on another teams key players, or if sponsors simply withdraw from the space entirely because of the actions of a few who become so magnified as to poorly represent the many. We are a staff of people who do this because we love the fans, the players, and want to see eSports grow. You should pause to consider that perhaps the top teams are run by people who both know what something about how to manage these sorts of events as well as care a great deal about the views of our fans, the image of our partners, and the well being of the players too.
I participated in this thread to share that perspective with you, not because I feel a need to justify my management decisions or provide explanation as to why things are the way they are or are not, or simply suggest that any player out there is so far a lost cause, that even engaging them with the right and proper motivations isn't worth the risk. I posted here so that you might understand how carefully we try to manage things like this, how we are not simply passively checked out on a beach somewhere hoping the shit goes away, but that we take these outcomes very seriously, and while everything may not always end in happiness and roses for everyone, if you insist on venting to sponsors you are engaging in one activity above any cause of justification you may have, and that is the tearing down of the trust bonds and relationship equity that people like myself invest months, sometimes years, developing.
I don't understand why TL or anyone that cares for E-sports is encouraging that other raging thread. Does ANY future sponsor want to go to a well known site as TL to see the community attacking a player? It certainly doesn't encourage sponsors on anyone's end, or progress E-sports at all.
Its for that same reason i'll likely mail my TL mousepad back down to the states if they release "Drolets" identity. If TL had any sense of reason and pride, they'd destroy that thread (or let WW continue it on their forums), and reveal the person's identity to WW.
As for reddit... Same idea really. Personal attacks such as this one are disgusting and i'm so far disgusted on how its been handled.
On June 07 2012 10:36 Klogon wrote: Even if drolets ends up being somebody who absolutely HATES Spades, does it even matter? Objective analysis shows quite convincingly of what's going on: he's a hacker. Tons of reputable pros have shown up and put their names on the line by saying so, and they are the least likely to participate in a "witch hunt." Of course my opinion means shit and those of you who don't already believe he hacked won't believe anything I say anyways. But it is so crystal clear that I honestly cannot believe there are even people still on his side. I think it is absolutely absurd.
Either way, this post is so thorough it is LOL. mad props Gheed haha
Honestly, I think he hacked too. But I truly believe that they way 'Drolets' handled it was totally wrong. I'm not trying to out Drolets to save Spades. I'm trying to out Drolets to change the way we report hacking.
What we need is for the person (pro or no) who finds something they believe is hacking to take that with their proof to a number of pros unrelated to the incident and get their opinions before posting. They need to come forward with solid evidence as one of our founding fathers said: it is better to let 100 guilty men go than to punish one innocent man (I'm paraphrasing and I think it was good ole Tomas Jefferson). It should not be possible to put out flimsy evidence and ruin someone's career which is what happened here, while Drolets was right in saying that Spades was hacking he was not right in saying that he had any substantial proof. It took many more replays and many more people analyzing them to find any real proof.
We need to make it clear that there are right and wrong ways to go about accusing someone of something this serious and that this was very clearly the wrong way.
But, we also need to ask us why the hacking accusation got really accepted easily by the community. - Spades previously hacked in BW. - Spades suddenly had a god-like ratio on NA ladder literally coming from nowhere. - Let's face it Spades is a sub par semi pro.
Let's imagine the same post from drolet but accusing some one like idra, nerchio, hasuobs, qxc, etc. I don't think the community would be as fast to conclude and witch hunt dedicated pros that have competed in lans before. IMO the better the accused player is, the more solid the proof need to be.
On June 07 2012 10:36 Klogon wrote: Even if drolets ends up being somebody who absolutely HATES Spades, does it even matter? Objective analysis shows quite convincingly of what's going on: he's a hacker. Tons of reputable pros have shown up and put their names on the line by saying so, and they are the least likely to participate in a "witch hunt." Of course my opinion means shit and those of you who don't already believe he hacked won't believe anything I say anyways. But it is so crystal clear that I honestly cannot believe there are even people still on his side. I think it is absolutely absurd.
Either way, this post is so thorough it is LOL. mad props Gheed haha
+1, I think this too, drolet is irrelevant and spades is 99% a cheater, the replays show clearly this
On June 07 2012 10:36 Klogon wrote: Even if drolets ends up being somebody who absolutely HATES Spades, does it even matter? Objective analysis shows quite convincingly of what's going on: he's a hacker. Tons of reputable pros have shown up and put their names on the line by saying so, and they are the least likely to participate in a "witch hunt." Of course my opinion means shit and those of you who don't already believe he hacked won't believe anything I say anyways. But it is so crystal clear that I honestly cannot believe there are even people still on his side. I think it is absolutely absurd.
Either way, this post is so thorough it is LOL. mad props Gheed haha
Honestly, I think he hacked too. But I truly believe that they way 'Drolets' handled it was totally wrong. I'm not trying to out Drolets to save Spades. I'm trying to out Drolets to change the way we report hacking.
What we need is for the person (pro or no) who finds something they believe is hacking to take that with their proof to a number of pros unrelated to the incident and get their opinions before posting. They need to come forward with solid evidence as one of our founding fathers said: it is better to let 100 guilty men go than to punish one innocent man (I'm paraphrasing and I think it was good ole Tomas Jefferson). It should not be possible to put out flimsy evidence and ruin someone's career which is what happened here, while Drolets was right in saying that Spades was hacking he was not right in saying that he had any substantial proof. It took many more replays and many more people analyzing them to find any real proof.
We need to make it clear that there are right and wrong ways to go about accusing someone of something this serious and that this was very clearly the wrong way.
But, we also need to ask us why the hacking accusation got really accepted easily by the community. - Spades previously hacked in BW. - Spades suddenly had a god-like ratio on NA ladder literally coming from nowhere. - Let's face it Spades is a sub par semi pro.
Let's imagine the same post from drolet but accusing some one like idra, nerchio, hasuobs, qxc, etc. I don't think the community would be as fast to conclude and witch hunt dedicated pros that have competed in lans before. IMO the better the accused player is, the more solid the proof need to be.
More like it got accepted so fast because there was a preponderance of evidence. The extra shit was just the nail on the lid.
just so you know, drolets is probably a nobody in the spanish scene because he uploaded a wrong picture of ieza (i know what ieza looks like and that's not him) which is very unlikely to happen if they had met at a LAN before.
As long as the accusations were made in good faith, I don't think you should have anything against Drolets. Posting anonymously is an acceptable method of avoiding the [inevitable] irrelevant ad hominem that will come from some people with contrary opinions. He wants the substance of the post the be looked at and discussed, not his identity.
The way his post was made indicates good faith. It was well prepared and although it could have been even better, it is enough. Not everyone is hardworking and thorough. Not everyone does a good job. The post shows that drolets posted to out a hacker, not to maliciously ruin a career.
I truly think that people looking for his identity are more interested in the mystery and drama of who he is, rather than outraged at the way he handled things. I mean, what if he was actually Spades's teammate?? Wouldn't that be juicy? And if he was, I would totally understand why his identity would be kept a secret.
In fact, if it was any pro player on a team, there would be good reason to keep his identity a secret. No team wants a snitch, no matter how right he is and no matter how just his motives are.
I know it doesn't take a snitch to look at a showmatch, but it may take an insider to be absolutely certain about what Spades does, enough to post in public
Also, it's not our job to preserve a team's image.
I just want to say that those of us who were looking into his identity have figured it out to our own satisfaction, we're pretty sure and we are still working to confirm it 100%.
Chill told me that the TL mods know who he is and they feel that revealing his identity will not add anything constructive to the arguments so we are following their example and keeping his secrets as if they were ours.
On June 07 2012 12:50 ChristianS wrote: Is dismayed a verb? I think not, but I also think Gheed has a much better mastery of the English language than me
It is a word, although I used it wrong. I take the truthiness approach to words, if they sound right to me I'll go with it.
I should have used "despaired" if I wanted to be more correct.
A lot of people tell about stop talking about this. Look at my twitter. Yesterday I said to stop about talking of Map hacking etc... so I dont understand this...
EDIT: I dont understar why are you posting our twitts, twitters and our life. YOU shouldt post 'bout my life, if I'm having a baby or not. Who do you think that you are? I DO speak a poor english, but at least i try. hahahhaa OMG... I dont use hack and I dont Stream Spades's replays and you talk about me and another spanish people? I dont undesrtand, really..
On June 06 2012 10:08 Promethelax wrote: I would look in the IPL TAC 3 threads about Karont3 vs Quantic and vs x6. Someone that close to the team would be a big fan in their first international team event. I'm off to be a detective in those threads, wish me luck. I'll update this post if I find anything.
Edit: Okay, with some research into the aforementioned and related threads I have found a few possibilities. These are based on post counts, join dates, country, knowledge of the Karont3 team and not being a part of the K3 organization (if it was one of them I truly believe that the TL mods would have released that information already). So there are under a half dozen possible posters, I'll give the possible reasons for each and their TL user names, I hope no one will assume they are actually the OP of the spades thread. I'm mostly doing this for fun, I have no outside knowledge of this matter. Seriously, don't belive me on my word, do your own research before you chose to point the finger at any of these guys, one of the reasons I'm leaving in all of them is to remind people how unsure I am. Even if I am right and one of these users is the poster of the allegations ALL OF THE OTHERS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
Okay, with that out of the way we'll begin. The first user I'm looking at is monx1e, he drew my attention by being the only Spaniard to post in both IPL TAC 3 threads about K3. (Qxg v K3: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339648) and K3 vs x6 (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341598). In one he talks about the improved play of AlastOr so clearly he has seen the guy play before. In the other he talks about how Lucifron is in University and isn't practicing much. Clearly these are both comments made by a dedicated fan of the team or of Spanish e-sports; he is aware of these players outside of this particular game. He also posts in the K3 announcement thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=323240) which has only seven total posts so he is clearly on top of the K3 squad. He doesn't say anything that points to him in this thread though. moving on. He posts in the Lucifron streaming thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=331379#19) saying that Luci should be featured. That wraps it up for monx1e, a big fan of K3 and he follows the team in a serious way but nothing else to point to him.
Next up is Storm-Giant, another Spaniard who posted in one of the IPL TAC threads about K3. He has a recent join date, like monx1e, and a low post count. To me these speak against either of these guys being the culprit as they don't have anything to protect in this second level anonymity. He posts in the EC cup (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337902¤tpage=6#112) supporting Lucifron. Nothing odd here since he is a fan. He posts in the K3/x6 IPL TAC thread in response to someone saying that K3 is the weakest team defending them. he is also a member of the Lucifron fan club (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337166#20) and thats about it on him. I honestly think he is the least likely of the guys I found.
Third we have Berceno who is the first of these people to have been found posting in the "[?]Spades Hacking?" thread. He comes really late to that party though (his first post is #581) where he says he has lost all respect for Spades. He is totally convinced in his first post that Spades is a hacker but so were a large majority of people posting in that thread. His post in the QxG/K3 IPL thread was what first lead me to him, he sates that Lucifron hasn't practiced since "1-5 may" which is the knowledge of either a very intent fan or someone in the know. His low post count and country of origin once again made him worth it for me to check. He is also the first of these posters to post in the original Showmatch thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339927¤tpage=2#26) since the user who requested these replays has to have watched the showmatch I couldn't help but see that as a big point in thinking he might be the poster. He has also posted in the Luci fan club without actually being a member. I don't think this really affects my position on him though, these guys are all fans of Lucifron, that is why I'm looking at them.
Now with these three out of the way we move on to the two more interesting possibilities: a Spanish caster and a German member of TL with enough posts to have an identity he would want to protect.
First we have our German friend: StarVe. In all honesty I wouldn't have looked twice at this guy if someone hadn't posted about "medevak" being a German spelling. He kept turning up in every thread I was looking at so I looked into him some more. In all honesty I don't think he is Drolets, if I was forced to guess I would go with the last guy I mention. However for the sake of completion I'll lay out the arguments in his favour. He posted twice in the Spades is Hacking thread, however his first post in that thread was number 2000 something. He didn't seem to be following it earlier on. He has 6 of the first 19 posts in the K3/x6 IPL TAC game and was clearly rooting for K3 but hey, he is European. I root for the NA teams most of the time. Regional pride and all that. Honestly I think he is only a EU fan who is excited to see K3 do well as an all EU team, hell I've been rooting for them as an all Forgiener squad and because Lucifron and the rest of K3 have been playing really well (not counting the game against QxG). I would say this guy is totally exonerated. On to the last guy I looked at and the most likely in my opinion.
Finally we have the Spanish caster and most likely poster: LorCHsc2. This guy is a prominent member of the Spanish sc2 scene and, therefore, would have reason to keep his identity secret. Of all of the TL users I have mentioned or will mention he is the one who would have the best shot at getting these replays in my opinion. He is the original poster of the IEM Spanish broadcast (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=317941#1) and has interviewed Vortix, Lucifron and AlastOr (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=328265#1) so he clearly has enough of a connection to these players to be able to request a replay from them which he could do without even alerting anyone on K3 to his suspicions; he could ask them for the replays simply to cast them, I'm sure they would say yes. LorCH also has a similar writing style to the poster of the Spades thread, Drolets, whose profile can be viewed here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=drolets He has the overuse of commas and some English misspellings which, although not conclusive, make him seem like a strong possibility. He also says, in Drolets' thread
Sorry 'bout my english :D. I speak better than i write... i think...
which agrees with the above poster who felt that Drolets spoke more than he wrote. Now, in addition to this he Streamed his analysis of the replays in Spanish, getting those stream views that people said CatZ was getting by taking this into the public eye. So there is a motive, not only to help Lucifron but also for himself. He also posted this
in the Spanish WCS qualifiers thread. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339847¤tpage=2#26) which, I'm sure you'll notice is the original source for the pictures which Drolets used in his Liquipidia edits. He posts in Vortix Streaming, Lucifron's fan club, and a lot of various Spanish related threads. I could find no instances of him using the Medevak spelling though, which would have proved it to me. In fact the only times that spelling is used on TL are in Drolets' post and posts quoting him. Seriously, that is it. LorCH also uses ellipses "..." a lot which is consistent with Drolets' post. (for example, this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342248¤tpage=120#2384)
This guy has casted a lot of Lucifron games, a lot of K3 games and has interviewed at least 3/5ths of the K3 line-up. He has the connection to get the replays and the motive to hide his Identity as he has something to protect within this community. In my opinion he is the most likely candidate and I personally would not be surprised if it turns out that he is Drolets.
tl:dr look into LorCHsc2, he looks like he had motive, ability and opportunity to to be Drolets.
Edit 2: I've found LorCH's twitter and am attempting to translate from Spanish. Interestingly enough one of the people he is tweeting to is Storm-Giant who is also the only one to post a comment on LorCH's announcement that he would be streaming the replays of Spades/Lucifron
Edit 3: The person who informed LorCH, Karont3, Lucifron and Ryo was luciusvlm who is a TL user I saw pop up in a lot of the threads I was looking into.
My finance is sick of me being an internet detective so I'm off to bed. I may do more tomorrow. I hope someone will pick up where I left off though. Good luck to all you internet investigators!
Just for you to know, the replay pack was uploaded few days before the whichhunt began with consent by Karont3 and Lucifron in several spanish comunities, one of them being www.primalgamers.es which brought their casters to cast the showmatch in spanish.
So anyone could have done it, you don't need to play Sherlock holmes. You can just ask them (or me) on twitter or PM in here.
And I will spare you of further investigation. You can find me talking on twitter to storm giant and Lorch, and that is because the spanish scene is so small, that everyone knows everyone :D
PD: I'm not the OP XD, but just for your reference, i had the replays before all this hunt started, and i'm just an average supporter.
Anyway... you have no life right? All the time looking shit about me... Do you like me or something? You lost a lot of time reserching me.. Im so sad
"I'd like to note that his IP actually does match other TL accounts. NrGMonk is still an inexperienced banling and didn't really use the full IP matching functionality we have.
The mods have a decent idea of who it is, and are discussing whether or not to reveal this information. It's likely we'll make a statement on the entire situation (not just the drama itself, but also the way it was handled) in the coming days."
On June 07 2012 12:50 ChristianS wrote: Is dismayed a verb? I think not, but I also think Gheed has a much better mastery of the English language than me
It is a word, although I used it wrong. I take the truthiness approach to words, if they sound right to me I'll go with it.
I should have used "despaired" if I wanted to be more correct.
After your CSI extravaganza, you drop knowledge bombs like "truthiness"? Maybe only a reference Americans get, but I think I love you.
On June 07 2012 18:18 CrumpetGuvnor wrote: the OP never once writes lucifron, or even Lucifron. It's always LucifroN. how many people type HuK or IdrA if they're just a fan?
On June 07 2012 18:18 CrumpetGuvnor wrote: the OP never once writes lucifron, or even Lucifron. It's always LucifroN. how many people type HuK or IdrA if they're just a fan?
Lol, they also think im Drolets xD I posted that on twitter after i saw the post on TL and loocked at the replays.
I'm not the one who posted the initial analisis and i dont agree with a lots of points that guy said about the replays. But i also agree in some points he makes. I know the proof are not conclusive , but i have my opinion that he is a hacker or at least he does hacks sometimes.
And yes, i know lucifron but i'm not close to him to care that much about making such a elaborate post about that...
You have misunderstood most of this blog, the inception of it, the somehow sarcastic tone in which the author started with and how at later stages, those who sought to venture into further grounds decided to contribute on their own behalf with this 'investigation'.
You have stated about your bad english (also pointed out by these 'detectives'), but please don't be so fast at judging and reconsider reading the entire blog again, most of what you state is clearly a misunderstanding. Please, try to not take this as something personal as some sort of attack against you.
On June 07 2012 16:08 LorCHsc2 wrote: Loool I finally did NOTHING!!
:|
A lot of people tell about stop talking about this. Look at my twitter. Yesterday I said to stop about talking of Map hacking etc... so I dont understand this...
EDIT: I dont understar why are you posting our twitts, twitters and our life. YOU shouldt post 'bout my life, if I'm having a baby or not. Who do you think that you are? I DO speak a poor english, but at least i try. hahahhaa OMG... I dont use hack and I dont Stream Spades's replays and you talk about me and another spanish people? I dont undesrtand, really..
Also, I dont care :D
The detectives' objective is to find the identity behind the OP of the infamous hacking accusation thread of Spades, it started with a clue about Drolets' IP matching with a few users which visited this site and had another account.[¹] As it further progresses Gheed found out the poor english of Drolets, furthermore came with various conclusion about the possible origin of the user, which in the end narrowed down to Drolets being a Spaniard. After this initial clue from Gheed, other users who wished to join this 'case' would do so on their own behalf, note on this that it has been discussed on the later pages, if this investigation was really necessary and how protecting the anonymity of Drolets would be important and therefore revealing his identity not necessary. Those who decided to continue agreed on how this was a good point but also stating the cons on how anonymity would affect the accused, how it should be handled and the risks there was in keeping the user anonymity if the accused was found innocent.
Other users kept contributing their research and one of them (Promethelax) expanded it further to possible users from the Spaniard scene. As the influx of information kept growing he tried to narrow it down to possible users based on the clues he had found, on possibly the way they 'wrote/spoke', their knowledge on the Spanish scene, their hardcore fanboyism, they way they got the replays... He narrowed it down to just a few users, a few of them had accounts registered on TL from Spain, which includes you in this category and ultimately somewhat outrageous the possibility if the identity behind Drolets was from the inner circle of the Duran family or the Karont3 team (this just fueled more the spirit and imagination 'to a possible thicker plot' in unveiling the mystery). There was speculation about Drolets being multiple and not just being one individual.
I suppose that Promethelax during his data collection, tried to gather the maximum amount of data as possible, and what better source than Twitter, since you seem to be an avid user of the platform. He later proceeds to point out relevant information he finds interesting which could be used to match you with Drolets. Keep in mind that all this information is gathered from a Public Platform, information you made public to the internet. Promethelax didn't have any malicious intent behind; let's call this information used to complete the profile of the possible suspects. In any moment were you accused of hacking, clearly a misunderstanding of yours. The information you give about analyzing the replays on stream of the showmatch to determine wether Spades was hacking or not, was not mentioned a single time so far in the blog; it was mentioned before you had a stream, nothing more.
On June 07 2012 16:42 LorCHsc2 wrote: If you think I'm Drolets.. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
You are so fucking mistaked. Look better...
Anyway... you have no life right? All the time looking shit about me... Do you like me or something? You lost a lot of time reserching me.. Im so sad
"I'd like to note that his IP actually does match other TL accounts. NrGMonk is still an inexperienced banling and didn't really use the full IP matching functionality we have.
The mods have a decent idea of who it is, and are discussing whether or not to reveal this information. It's likely we'll make a statement on the entire situation (not just the drama itself, but also the way it was handled) in the coming days."
Im trully sure that im not that guy ^^
Thanks for taking your time to clarify and shed more light in the case, as I mentioned previously, do not take this personal, read what I wrote. There's no need to go that far as calling the detectives of not having a life, all the detectives here use their spare time in this case for the sake of their divertimento, but more importantly for their own belief and how this kind of cases should be handled in the future.
Everything posted here so far are mere speculations, nothing conclusive.
All you read in this blog is not associated with the Admins/Mods of TL
[¹]The Mods confirmed Drolets had a matching IP associated with other account on TL, albeit not making the information public, the detectives decided to embark on the journey of eternal conjecture.
If you have trouble understanding all what I've wrote, feel free to PM me, I'll try my hardest with my chobo Spanish to explain you this blog.
P.S. This information also applies for the Spaniards who couldn't see through Gheed's true intentions.
On June 07 2012 11:54 Toxi78 wrote: just so you know, drolets is probably a nobody in the spanish scene because he uploaded a wrong picture of ieza (i know what ieza looks like and that's not him) which is very unlikely to happen if they had met at a LAN before.
Somehow, I think it's fitting that my 500th post is in a Gheed blog thread.
To the varied Spanish individuals getting upset about the investigation others are doing - Tough shit. You make posts on the internet, or through twitter, and you are entering a public sphere. If you don't want people to analyze in detail everything you do online, unplug your computer and throw it out a window. Because that is the only way. You think you're anonymous, anywhere at anytime? No. Ask Amazon. Or Facebook. Or Twitter. Or Google. All of whom can probably tell you where you were yesterday, with who, and what you had for breakfast. Unlike Drolets, those investigating are being very open about it, and are giving a very good account of their reasoning. Meanwhile, you come in and laugh like trolls while providing ad hominem attacks. (This, incidentally, is probably one good example of why people don't want to post accusations without using a smurf account.)
To those bemoaning "outing" a "whistle-blower" - no. Just. No. Drolets is not a whistle-blower. Drolets made an accusation on flimsy circumstantial evidence that would barely get a search warrant were it a criminal legal matter. He did so with no standing; actually, he did it with negative standing because of how internet forum "reputation" seems to work. His initial post is roughly the equivalent of pre-schooler accusing a member of Congress(Parliament, Althingi, whatever) of rigging elections. (Although the pre-schooler may have a point, he has no reputation to lend any credence, and I think I already mentioned how incredibly circumstantial the evidence given was.) He cannot be afforded whistle-blower status in another way - a whistle-blower is someone that discovers impropriety, and then reports it to an authority for investigation. A slanderer, on the other hand, is someone that finds a rumour and then plasters it on the cover of a magazine. The TL Forums are not an authority by any stretch of the imagination. I think "magazine" is a decent analogy. (This would make Reddit the Enquirer.) This is also why the OP's thread was initially closed, until other more authoritative individuals investigated the claims made and then substantiated them with better analysis and expert opinion. (Although, it should be noted, that all evidence brought forward since is circumstantial. Better than the OP provided, but still circumstantial.)
Gheed, I have to say - very good blog. I feel however, that you could have done better. I feel I have evidence that Drolets may be more "foreign" than just from Spain. Now, I'm not saying Drolets is an alien...
As for whether or not Spades hacks - don't care. And here's why. The only possible evidence we have is circumstantial inference based on computer recorded "actions" by a game. They may or may not be accurate whether or not a hack is involved. It's lousy evidence, all around - as someone mentioned, there's no "smoking gun". People that are trying to prove Spades isn't hacking are attempting to prove a negative - there's no way to do so. You can say all you want that this or that is "fishy" or "suspect", but there's no way for anyone to say definitively "that's not a hack". I guess, if someone had a video camera watching the entire computer, Spades' finger movements, mouse movements, and possibly bowel movements, with timestamped and witnessed affidavits handled using chain of custody evidentiary protocol, maybe you could. Even at this late date, a forensic examination of the actual computer for "hacking" software or connections would be useless, as an accuser can just say "it was formatted since then". It's impossible. The only person that can say with absolute accuracy whether or not Spades hacks, is Spades. I don't really need to illuminate how that works, do I?
The only solid, 100% undeniable fact that exists in this entire screwy shambles, is that Spades' career has taken a body blow from which it may never recover. The guy has gotten death threats if he shows up at Anaheim. Any potential future earnings he may have had are gone - his reputation has been destroyed and it may have an impact in his life outside of gaming. If the accusations against him are baseless (or at the least, unprovable) he could probably make a decent case for slander (or cyberbullying) in civil court. In which case, legal counsel can subpoena records from TL and find out definitively who this Drolets is.
...because you see, Drolets is currently on his ship in lunar orbit laughing his excretory orifices off. It was all done because Spades had noticed something odd, and was investigating something himself. The lights overhead, and strange sounds during tournaments. StarCraft 2 is a way that potential extraterrestrial invaders identify the most dangerous adversaries, and then quietly take them over. Koreans are good because of practice? No, it's because they've been replaced pre-emptively. The visitors have already infiltrated Blizzard, have worked to kill BW, and are slowly ploughing the ground so they can come back and fix the ways we've messed up the world. So, I guess what I'm saying is, really... it's aliens.
On June 07 2012 19:50 LorCHsc2 wrote: Its really hard NOT TAKING this personal when a lot of people start saying somthing about my own person so... I hope ADMINS do anything they think
I repeat, sorry because my english... i cant say a few expressions But im not mad
EDIT: I understand everything wroted here, but i have some problems to explain myself... sorry
None of the detectives is mocking you, none of them are making fun of your english. In fact, one of the detective (Promethelax) pointed out how ironic it was for Drolets to make fun of his fellow countryman's (probably a caster) english when his english is nowhere near perfect.
The closest information to your personal life posted by the detective, was the one about you having a baby and the detective congratulating you; also may you have my congratulations as well.
On June 07 2012 04:52 Promethelax wrote: Minor update on the aforementioned suspects: LorCHsc2: He also just told the world that he is having a baby, congratulations to him.
This information as you can see, does not help much in filling the suspect profile with Drolets', so it was just a minor out of the case extra Promethelax decided to add.
On June 07 2012 19:36 felisconcolori wrote: Somehow, I think it's fitting that my 500th post is in a Gheed blog thread.
To the varied Spanish individuals getting upset about the investigation others are doing - Tough shit. You make posts on the internet, or through twitter, and you are entering a public sphere. If you don't want people to analyze in detail everything you do online, unplug your computer and throw it out a window. Because that is the only way. You think you're anonymous, anywhere at anytime? No. Ask Amazon. Or Facebook. Or Twitter. Or Google. All of whom can probably tell you where you were yesterday, with who, and what you had for breakfast. Unlike Drolets, those investigating are being very open about it, and are giving a very good account of their reasoning. Meanwhile, you come in and laugh like trolls while providing ad hominem attacks. (This, incidentally, is probably one good example of why people don't want to post accusations without using a smurf account.)
To those bemoaning "outing" a "whistle-blower" - no. Just. No. Drolets is not a whistle-blower. Drolets made an accusation on flimsy circumstantial evidence that would barely get a search warrant were it a criminal legal matter. He did so with no standing; actually, he did it with negative standing because of how internet forum "reputation" seems to work. His initial post is roughly the equivalent of pre-schooler accusing a member of Congress(Parliament, Althingi, whatever) of rigging elections. (Although the pre-schooler may have a point, he has no reputation to lend any credence, and I think I already mentioned how incredibly circumstantial the evidence given was.) He cannot be afforded whistle-blower status in another way - a whistle-blower is someone that discovers impropriety, and then reports it to an authority for investigation. A slanderer, on the other hand, is someone that finds a rumour and then plasters it on the cover of a magazine. The TL Forums are not an authority by any stretch of the imagination. I think "magazine" is a decent analogy. (This would make Reddit the Enquirer.) This is also why the OP's thread was initially closed, until other more authoritative individuals investigated the claims made and then substantiated them with better analysis and expert opinion. (Although, it should be noted, that all evidence brought forward since is circumstantial. Better than the OP provided, but still circumstantial.)
Gheed, I have to say - very good blog. I feel however, that you could have done better. I feel I have evidence that Drolets may be more "foreign" than just from Spain. Now, I'm not saying Drolets is an alien...
As for whether or not Spades hacks - don't care. And here's why. The only possible evidence we have is circumstantial inference based on computer recorded "actions" by a game. They may or may not be accurate whether or not a hack is involved. It's lousy evidence, all around - as someone mentioned, there's no "smoking gun". People that are trying to prove Spades isn't hacking are attempting to prove a negative - there's no way to do so. You can say all you want that this or that is "fishy" or "suspect", but there's no way for anyone to say definitively "that's not a hack". I guess, if someone had a video camera watching the entire computer, Spades' finger movements, mouse movements, and possibly bowel movements, with timestamped and witnessed affidavits handled using chain of custody evidentiary protocol, maybe you could. Even at this late date, a forensic examination of the actual computer for "hacking" software or connections would be useless, as an accuser can just say "it was formatted since then". It's impossible. The only person that can say with absolute accuracy whether or not Spades hacks, is Spades. I don't really need to illuminate how that works, do I?
The only solid, 100% undeniable fact that exists in this entire screwy shambles, is that Spades' career has taken a body blow from which it may never recover. The guy has gotten death threats if he shows up at Anaheim. Any potential future earnings he may have had are gone - his reputation has been destroyed and it may have an impact in his life outside of gaming. If the accusations against him are baseless (or at the least, unprovable) he could probably make a decent case for slander (or cyberbullying) in civil court. In which case, legal counsel can subpoena records from TL and find out definitively who this Drolets is.
...because you see, Drolets is currently on his ship in lunar orbit laughing his excretory orifices off. It was all done because Spades had noticed something odd, and was investigating something himself. The lights overhead, and strange sounds during tournaments. StarCraft 2 is a way that potential extraterrestrial invaders identify the most dangerous adversaries, and then quietly take them over. Koreans are good because of practice? No, it's because they've been replaced pre-emptively. The visitors have already infiltrated Blizzard, have worked to kill BW, and are slowly ploughing the ground so they can come back and fix the ways we've messed up the world. So, I guess what I'm saying is, really... it's aliens.
Thank you for summarizing what I wanted to say. The masses still have no idea of the true identity of drolets. Meanwhile, Illusion, Catz and other pros have risked their reputation by pitching in. If the accusations turned out to be false, then all sorts of shit will rain on these pros, while drolets walks away scot free?
I have my doubts that anyone other than the mods know who drolets is. If you look at Promethelax and others' previous posts in here they clearly are drawing conclusions based on speculation in order to feel like detectives. Writing style and familiarity with Karont3 is just insufficient evidence to go on. If you look at Spanish players' stream threads there are like ten 1-post accounts that pop up lol.
And as for callin drolets a whistleblower that's just silly. He exaggerated circumstantial evidence in order to create the illusion that he had something substantial. The real evidence in that thread has come from other people. His post insta-destroyed a career while shielding him from accountability for his hit job. He deserves to be outed. I guess TL has no problem with people making new accounts for risky posts in order to avoid potential ban consequences for their main accounts lol.
On June 07 2012 23:27 Doodsmack wrote: I have my doubts that anyone other than the mods know who drolets is. If you look at Promethelax and others' previous posts in here they clearly are drawing conclusions based on speculation in order to feel like detectives. Writing style and familiarity with Karont3 is just insufficient evidence to go on. If you look at Spanish players' stream threads there are like ten 1-post accounts that pop up lol.
And as for callin drolets a whistleblower that's just silly. He exaggerated circumstantial evidence in order to create the illusion that he had something substantial. The real evidence in that thread has come from other people. His post insta-destroyed a career while shielding him from accountability for his hit job. He deserves to be outed. I guess TL has no problem with people making new accounts for risky posts in order to avoid potential ban consequences for their main accounts lol.
Well, someone feels shunned. Yeah, it's insufficient. But when you have Liquipedia edits, exact writing styles, exact spelling similarities, obvious Spanish, motive, reason to hide, using the same words in all posts..You can be reasonably sure.
I love how we're doing this "in order to feel like detectives" but meanwhile, Doodsmack here, has been asking us to let him in on it, which we didn't do, because we know all he wants is to tell everyone.
On June 07 2012 23:41 LorCHsc2 wrote: Im only saying everybody should be carefull about accusations. EVERYBODY. Because my own public image could be damaged because of those accusations.
Your public image hasn't been damaged by mention of your name in a 13 page blog on Team Liquid, trust me. If anything, a few extra people know who you are now.
On June 07 2012 23:41 LorCHsc2 wrote: Im only saying everybody should be carefull about accusations. EVERYBODY. Because my own public image could be damaged because of those accusations.
Your public image hasn't been damaged by mention of your name in a 13 page blog on Team Liquid, trust me. If anything, a few extra people know who you are now.
hey guys we think lorchsc2 is drolets time to get the witchhunt mob together to complain to sponsors or something.
oh wait. hes not? well what do we do with our pitchforks now?
On June 08 2012 01:30 jdsowa wrote: Note that 'drolets' is 'Ste Lord' backwards.
What is the significance of this, you ask?
Well, it all started back in the summer of 2004 when I played the WMB qualifier in Guadalajara...
It can also be shortened to Dr. Olets which, in Latin could mean the odoriferous doctor. It is also an anagram for STD Pole, Sled Rot, DT Lores, Old Rest, Ret Sold, Lets Rod and Dolt Roe. I've looked into a lot of these believe me. There are a lot of silly things you can do with his name.
LorCHsc2: The things I looked at were all public, I didn't do much digging on you. I'm sorry you feel that it was an attack against you or your reputation. I was seriously just looking around through the Spanish scene and its relation to K3 and the TL forums. You came up as someone who had a connection and I followed up on it. I didn't mean to do anything to hurt your character, if this in any way has harmed you I apologize but, in all seriousness I don't see how it could have hurt you. Seriously congratulations on getting pregnant, I hope everything goes well for your family. You have a seriously bad-ass beard which bodes well for you. As you said I have no life right now, my fiance just went out of town, I'm not in school at the moment and I can't legally work in the country I live for another few weeks. So you are right, I have a lot of free time.
On June 07 2012 19:50 LorCHsc2 wrote: Its really hard NOT TAKING this personal when a lot of people start saying somthing about my own person so... I hope ADMINS do anything they think
I repeat, sorry because my english... i cant say a few expressions But im not mad
EDIT: I understand everything wroted here, but i have some problems to explain myself... sorry
Annnndd the witch-hunting/stupid accusations begin! Man, if only someone had seen this coming. If only someone could have predicted this.... :S
Haven't any of you seen that episode of Next Gen? Lol, let's get back to ACTUAL Starcraft?
On June 07 2012 23:41 LorCHsc2 wrote: Im only saying everybody should be carefull about accusations. EVERYBODY. Because my own public image could be damaged because of those accusations.
I'm sorry, you have a public image?
The vast majority of the world has no idea who you are, and your anonymity is assured in that respect. I mean, yeah, I'm sure your 233 followers and (highest I see) 450 or so viewers (Twitch; you seem to do a little better on YouTube, and I'll not mention uStream) might give you some measure of public view, but unless you plan on becoming the next -Orb- by saying something in a cast today that will haunt you years down the road when you might actually be able to get on the worldwide stage I'd say you probably are not making a living in eSports, and have that snowball's prayer in hell of ever having it be your career (like the vast majority of casters/players).
Also, you're not Drolets. We know this. Nor is there a witch hunt going on in this thread to find Drolets. And even if you were Drolets, there's a small measure of internet fame to be gathered by being the man/woman who single handedly destroyed a pro player's career.
Unrelated note - nice website. Very well formatted, and engaging, even if my Spanish is about on par with your English. (Actually, your English is probably better than my Spanish.)
hello guys my english is very very bad liker lorch,i was wc3 player and i know a lot about the spanish scene thats true ,but i never meet with lucifron,ryo vortix...
Lorch asked in his twitter about replays to cast and i send to him some replays that i played here the email if u want i can screenshots the emails with the dates.
When i saw the spades thread i tweet the link to the spanish guys lorch,karont3,lucifron and karont3 manager ryo,i add on skype too ryo and 6 hours later he accepted me and i asked him if he know about the thread and he said " we already know about it" nothing more,im not drolet u can check ip and i havent relationship with lucifron vortix and karont3 just a fan that enjoy e-sports and his national heros ^^ (since w3 :D ) if u want something more about me or about the spanish community just pm me and i will try to answer in my broken english
if u need a translator spanish/english i can help to,i just want the same thing that all the comunity know if spades hack and who posted the proofs,i have a small theory but working in it just now
Soooo if this mystery is solved the public should be made aware of his or her name...Or maybe show us the tools you used to find out who it was so those who are very interested can as well?
What if drolets is lucifron himself? If the teamliquid mods know the identify of this user, however they refuse to reveal it. Then it could mean they have a reason to hide his identity which wouldn't be the case if it was just an unknown spanish poster, since there's nothing to hide, he has no reputation and no one knows him, there's no point in protecting a random person we're not familiar with. That means there are reasons to hide his identity, it must be someone known, most probably a pro, it is most likely to be lucifron himself and teamliquid doesn't want to place him into a bad situation by revealing him.
If not lucifron, is there any other known Spanish progamers that lucifron knows? Or maybe even more troubling and mysterious, as Gheed suspects in his latest investigations, it could even be an arch nemesis of Spades, who has been preparing this evil plan for months. Especially, after reading drolet's original post, you see that he has is much lower caliber of play than lucifron since for example he complains about putting marines in the main in order to defend against an unscouted banshee, though at high level people do that a lot with or without maphacks if they know the opponent could have the tech at that time to do a possible drop or harass. Or he says he's not checking to see if the building at the ramp is a barracks after the scan on shakuras plateau, while you don't need to do that, it's pretty obvious he'll have a barracks there at that point and he could look simply at the minimap. On the other hand, when you suspect someone of hacking, everything will look suspecious to you even if you are a high level player. It is even possible that the OP wrote it using a low level analysis to deflect suspicion, and it was enough to ignite the discussion so it didn't matter how well the analysis he made was good.
All those clues draw to a conclusion, I am not 100% sure of it however it might sound very likely to happen. First of all, this couldn't have been done by a single person since as Gheed says: "The showmatch began on Sunday at 21:00 CET and ran for (using the length of the relevant TwitchTV videos as a guide) roughly 2 and a half hours. The OP in question was posted on Monday at 21:22 CET." This means that Lucifron couldn't have posted that by himself since he was busy with the showmatch. He had someone he worked with, and now our "arch nemesis of Spades" comes in, he was planning it for months, he was the one who gave the idea to western wolves to make the showmatch, this means he's a known person from western wolves, but also so that the team doesn't suspects him, he becomes friend with lucifron and tells him about the hacking of Spades. Lucifron agrees to help him to hunt down the hacker, by providing the replay and also quickly posting the text he recieved from this unknown individual to the forum. The main ideas of the text were written long time ago and were well calculated to give an image of a bad english speaking user from spain. As Lucifron is not sure 100% sure that his unknown friend is telling the truth, he decides to post it under anonymity so that this doesn't hurt his image in case Spades is proven innocent. Of course the teamliquid mods won't reveal that it's lucifron and the other guy remains in the shadows. Basically, their plan was so well engineered that we will never know the 100% truth.
Showmatch was planned about a month+ in advance and no one put us up to it, we wanted "the promotion". Great Fucking idea that was, going to think twice next time. Hence the giveaway too. So that can't fit in.
On June 08 2012 05:22 Adonminus wrote: What if drolets is lucifron himself? If the teamliquid mods know the identify of this user, however they refuse to reveal it. Then it could mean they have a reason to hide his identity which wouldn't be the case if it was just an unknown spanish poster, since there's nothing to hide, he has no reputation and no one knows him, there's no point in protecting a random person we're not familiar with. That means there are reasons to hide his identity, it must be someone known, most probably a pro, it is most likely to be lucifron himself and teamliquid doesn't want to place him into a bad situation by revealing him.
If not lucifron, is there any other known Spanish progamers that lucifron knows? Or maybe even more troubling and mysterious, as Gheed suspects in his latest investigations, it could even be an arch nemesis of Spades, who has been preparing this evil plan for months. Especially, after reading drolet's original post, you see that he has is much lower caliber of play than lucifron since for example he complains about putting marines in the main in order to defend against an unscouted banshee, though at high level people do that a lot with or without maphacks if they know the opponent could have the tech at that time to do a possible drop or harass. Or he says he's not checking to see if the building at the ramp is a barracks after the scan on shakuras plateau, while you don't need to do that, it's pretty obvious he'll have a barracks there at that point and he could look simply at the minimap. On the other hand, when you suspect someone of hacking, everything will look suspecious to you even if you are a high level player. It is even possible that the OP wrote it using a low level analysis to deflect suspicion, and it was enough to ignite the discussion so it didn't matter how well the analysis he made was good.
All those clues draw to a conclusion, I am not 100% sure of it however it might sound very likely to happen. First of all, this couldn't have been done by a single person since as Gheed says: "The showmatch began on Sunday at 21:00 CET and ran for (using the length of the relevant TwitchTV videos as a guide) roughly 2 and a half hours. The OP in question was posted on Monday at 21:22 CET." This means that Lucifron couldn't have posted that by himself since he was busy with the showmatch. He had someone he worked with, and now our "arch nemesis of Spades" comes in, he was planning it for months, he was the one who gave the idea to western wolves to make the showmatch, this means he's a known person from western wolves, but also so that the team doesn't suspects him, he becomes friend with lucifron and tells him about the hacking of Spades. Lucifron agrees to help him to hunt down the hacker, by providing the replay and also quickly posting the text he recieved from this unknown individual to the forum. The main ideas of the text were written long time ago and were well calculated to give an image of a bad english speaking user from spain. As Lucifron is not sure 100% sure that his unknown friend is telling the truth, he decides to post it under anonymity so that this doesn't hurt his image in case Spades is proven innocent. Of course the teamliquid mods won't reveal that it's lucifron and the other guy remains in the shadows. Basically, their plan was so well engineered that we will never know the 100% truth.
I can say with 95% surety that Drolets is not LucifroN. Based on what The TL mods have said and my own research. Believe me I checked that early on and kept going back to it trying to make it work but it doesn't. You have a good theory, one that a lot of us worked on proving. Unfortunately the facts just don't back it up.
Maybe hes a formerly banned poster? Maybe Charlie Murphy? Maybe hes a guy formerly banned for hating on Spades? Maybe its someone's dorm room used for way too many bad TL users? :o
Others have addressed this but I wanted to add my thoughts.
To all those who have been named as suspects, this is not at all an attempt to assassinate your character. When someone makes an accusation as serious as hacking, though, it NEEDS to be done with great accountability and certainty. Because as Lorch very wisely said:
Im only saying everybody should be carefull about accusations. EVERYBODY. Because my own public image could be damaged because of those accusations.
This is pretty serious shit for people, especially casters and players. The evidence Drolets had was NOT enough to go public with. while it appears he was probably right, we need to set a precedent for the correct way of outing hackers without damaging innocent people's careers.
So those listed as suspects, absolutely nothing against you.
On June 08 2012 10:08 3FFA wrote: Maybe hes a formerly banned poster? Maybe Charlie Murphy? Maybe hes a guy formerly banned for hating on Spades? Maybe its someone's dorm room used for way too many bad TL users? :o
Afaik, those accounts get instabanned as soon as the mods see that two accounts share IP or a banned account's IP creates a new account. Once you're banned you're banned. There's no coming back, unless you work it out with the mods somehow. You're not allowed to have two accounts. Am I the only one who read the epic "TL ten commandments"? It's number 4 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=17911
The person posting likely doesn't have another account here / is a public person. It's possible that they don't ban him just because that would make his claim seem ridiculous.
On June 08 2012 01:30 jdsowa wrote: Note that 'drolets' is 'Ste Lord' backwards.
What is the significance of this, you ask?
Well, it all started back in the summer of 2004 when I played the WMB qualifier in Guadalajara...
It can also be shortened to Dr. Olets which, in Latin could mean the odoriferous doctor. It is also an anagram for STD Pole, Sled Rot, DT Lores, Old Rest, Ret Sold, Lets Rod and Dolt Roe. I've looked into a lot of these believe me. There are a lot of silly things you can do with his name.
LorCHsc2: The things I looked at were all public, I didn't do much digging on you. I'm sorry you feel that it was an attack against you or your reputation. I was seriously just looking around through the Spanish scene and its relation to K3 and the TL forums. You came up as someone who had a connection and I followed up on it. I didn't mean to do anything to hurt your character, if this in any way has harmed you I apologize but, in all seriousness I don't see how it could have hurt you. Seriously congratulations on getting pregnant, I hope everything goes well for your family. You have a seriously bad-ass beard which bodes well for you. As you said I have no life right now, my fiance just went out of town, I'm not in school at the moment and I can't legally work in the country I live for another few weeks. So you are right, I have a lot of free time.
No offence, but at one point you mentioned that you had almost concluded that it was Lorch, you shouldn't be throwing around such hard accusations without "not digging much" as i quote you. Not to mention you're jokes about his english isn't funny, and it comes off as being simply conceited.
On June 08 2012 01:30 jdsowa wrote: Note that 'drolets' is 'Ste Lord' backwards.
What is the significance of this, you ask?
Well, it all started back in the summer of 2004 when I played the WMB qualifier in Guadalajara...
It can also be shortened to Dr. Olets which, in Latin could mean the odoriferous doctor. It is also an anagram for STD Pole, Sled Rot, DT Lores, Old Rest, Ret Sold, Lets Rod and Dolt Roe. I've looked into a lot of these believe me. There are a lot of silly things you can do with his name.
LorCHsc2: The things I looked at were all public, I didn't do much digging on you. I'm sorry you feel that it was an attack against you or your reputation. I was seriously just looking around through the Spanish scene and its relation to K3 and the TL forums. You came up as someone who had a connection and I followed up on it. I didn't mean to do anything to hurt your character, if this in any way has harmed you I apologize but, in all seriousness I don't see how it could have hurt you. Seriously congratulations on getting pregnant, I hope everything goes well for your family. You have a seriously bad-ass beard which bodes well for you. As you said I have no life right now, my fiance just went out of town, I'm not in school at the moment and I can't legally work in the country I live for another few weeks. So you are right, I have a lot of free time.
No offence, but at one point you mentioned that you had almost concluded that it was Lorch, you shouldn't be throwing around such hard accusations without "not digging much" as i quote you. Not to mention you're jokes about his english isn't funny, and it comes off as being simply conceited.
Reading comprehension. He almost concluded it was Lorch. He then said it wasn't. If I say I almost robbed you, but found a better potential victim, can you press charges? No. Promethelax also continued to talk about his investigation, to consider and dismiss, and made that public. This is nothing like Drolets, who makes ONE post with half baked conclusions, and never comes back again, with an outright accusation. Not "I almost think Spades is hacking" but an outright "Spades is hacking". There are no hard accusations here. There is "I think but am not sure" and "X% sure it's not" etc. Not once do I see a "Drolets is + Show Spoiler +
an alien!
!!!!"
As for jokes about his English... well, that's going to happen. Not that Lorch has been completely free of jokes at others expense either, and the writing analysis is part of the "forensic" trail.
As for coming off conceited - c'mon. You're in a thread attached to Gheed's blog. Gheed. What the hell do you expect, love and tolerance for everypony?
On June 08 2012 01:30 jdsowa wrote: Note that 'drolets' is 'Ste Lord' backwards.
What is the significance of this, you ask?
Well, it all started back in the summer of 2004 when I played the WMB qualifier in Guadalajara...
It can also be shortened to Dr. Olets which, in Latin could mean the odoriferous doctor. It is also an anagram for STD Pole, Sled Rot, DT Lores, Old Rest, Ret Sold, Lets Rod and Dolt Roe. I've looked into a lot of these believe me. There are a lot of silly things you can do with his name.
LorCHsc2: The things I looked at were all public, I didn't do much digging on you. I'm sorry you feel that it was an attack against you or your reputation. I was seriously just looking around through the Spanish scene and its relation to K3 and the TL forums. You came up as someone who had a connection and I followed up on it. I didn't mean to do anything to hurt your character, if this in any way has harmed you I apologize but, in all seriousness I don't see how it could have hurt you. Seriously congratulations on getting pregnant, I hope everything goes well for your family. You have a seriously bad-ass beard which bodes well for you. As you said I have no life right now, my fiance just went out of town, I'm not in school at the moment and I can't legally work in the country I live for another few weeks. So you are right, I have a lot of free time.
Yeah i have a good reationship with Karont3 people (players and stuff). Im not mad with you and I dont feel i was attacked. Is just I think meaby all of us should be pretty sure aout accusation before to post it, thats all.
On June 08 2012 20:05 LorCHsc2 wrote: I dont care if you think I am Drolets ^^
What if you have been hypnotized by the evil arch nemesis of Spades in order to make an account by the name of "Drolets" and post this accusation and then your memory was erased?
On June 09 2012 03:33 Kyrillion wrote: It would be so epic if Drolets came here to post "Catch me if you can" I'd instantly start a fanclub.
Lol it would be SO epic if he made like a thread, leaving dastardly clues and daring us to chase him across the wide world that is the interwebs.
Then we could have Sherlock Gheeds chase him down narrow alleys in downtown London, while constantly criticizing the incompetence of Scotland Yard's other officers.
On June 09 2012 03:33 Kyrillion wrote: It would be so epic if Drolets came here to post "Catch me if you can" I'd instantly start a fanclub.
Lol it would be SO epic if he made like a thread, leaving dastardly clues and daring us to chase him across the wide world that is the interwebs.
Then we could have Sherlock Gheeds chase him down narrow alleys in downtown London, while constantly criticizing the incompetence of Scotland Yard's other officers.
Sherlock Gheed vs Professor Drolearty - The case of the ace of Spades". Sounds like that could be a hit-movie... Anyone willing to fund this idea?
On June 07 2012 10:36 Klogon wrote: Even if drolets ends up being somebody who absolutely HATES Spades, does it even matter? Objective analysis shows quite convincingly of what's going on: he's a hacker. Tons of reputable pros have shown up and put their names on the line by saying so, and they are the least likely to participate in a "witch hunt." Of course my opinion means shit and those of you who don't already believe he hacked won't believe anything I say anyways. But it is so crystal clear that I honestly cannot believe there are even people still on his side. I think it is absolutely absurd.
Either way, this post is so thorough it is LOL. mad props Gheed haha
Yes i agree on this part. What does it matter who this droplet guy is? You judge a person's post by it's contents, not who is posting. A moron posting a backed-up opinion doesn't make the opinion any less valid than it already is. Although i disagree about the part in which spades is a hacker. Suspicious actions of a player doesn't warrant jumping to conclusions. And also there are pros that actually don't think he's a hacker.
On June 07 2012 10:36 Klogon wrote: Even if drolets ends up being somebody who absolutely HATES Spades, does it even matter? Objective analysis shows quite convincingly of what's going on: he's a hacker. Tons of reputable pros have shown up and put their names on the line by saying so, and they are the least likely to participate in a "witch hunt." Of course my opinion means shit and those of you who don't already believe he hacked won't believe anything I say anyways. But it is so crystal clear that I honestly cannot believe there are even people still on his side. I think it is absolutely absurd.
Either way, this post is so thorough it is LOL. mad props Gheed haha
Yes i agree on this part. What does it matter who this droplet guy is? You judge a person's post by it's contents, not who is posting. A moron posting a backed-up opinion doesn't make the opinion any less valid than it already is. Although i disagree about the part in which spades is a hacker. Suspicious actions of a player doesn't warrant jumping to conclusions. And also there are pros that actually don't think he's a hacker.
I personally find it amazing that a few pieces of "objective" evidence somehow completely confirms the conclusion. It's a lot more rational to say "spades hacking is a probable conclusion given the evidence", but there's enough counter-evidence to support the opposite conclusion. There isn't enough information to know 100% and, much to TL's chagrin, the best conclusion right now is "we don't know".
When the mods closed the original drolets thread intrigue said they were waiting for E3's conclusion to discuss a possible outing. It would be quite the "Scooby-Doo moment" to take the monster mask off the villain and see the face of Old Man Jenkins. Wouldn't it be a twist if it turned out to be Gheed???
On June 11 2012 02:50 mrlie3 wrote: What happened to TL mods' supposedly planned announcement on who this drolets guy was? Anyone knows?
Came here to ask this. There was supposed to be a statement after some TL staff comes back from E3 (Nazgul, I guess?) but there doesn't seem to be anything like this and Spades got banned.
On June 11 2012 02:50 mrlie3 wrote: What happened to TL mods' supposedly planned announcement on who this drolets guy was? Anyone knows?
Came here to ask this. There was supposed to be a statement after some TL staff comes back from E3 (Nazgul, I guess?) but there doesn't seem to be anything like this and Spades got banned.
Don't keep us in the dark, TL, give us Drolets!
I have heard from the mods that they do not believe that the identity is important to the discussion, they have decided to keep his identity secret and those of us that have discovered it are following their lead in this.
On June 11 2012 02:50 mrlie3 wrote: What happened to TL mods' supposedly planned announcement on who this drolets guy was? Anyone knows?
Came here to ask this. There was supposed to be a statement after some TL staff comes back from E3 (Nazgul, I guess?) but there doesn't seem to be anything like this and Spades got banned.
Don't keep us in the dark, TL, give us Drolets!
I have heard from the mods that they do not believe that the identity is important to the discussion, they have decided to keep his identity secret and those of us that have discovered it are following their lead in this.
There will be no mod announcement.
Hope this isn't true, cause it's pretty pathetic if it is.
Asking mods to hand over his identity would satiate our curiosity at the cost of another witch hunt, so I could care less that they keep it to themselves. Kudos for Gheed on his bright future in conspiracy theory however.
EPT
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