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Note to lower leagues, TCG and SC2

Blogs > IOvEggY
Post a Reply
EggYsc2
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
620 Posts
May 25 2012 15:27 GMT
#1
So being a game, any video game for that matter
It means that we have a bunch of elitists, some fake some real.

My background in competative gaming comes from the Pokemon Trading Card game
where i spent 10 great years, winning tournaments and travelling the world to attend world championships.
Recently I retired from that to pursue a new hobby/competative game, obviously SC2.
Also the trading card game can get expensive sometimes if youre missing cards in your deck and so forth, I usually didnt have to buy cards because I won all my cards or borrowed them.
If youre wondering how good was I, I was about the IdrA of pokemon haha, yeah I get emotional to when and if I lose.

Anyway back to the point
So pokemon and SC2 are really similair really.
Build order=deck lists just about

In pokemon TCG we had to really scrutanize the effectiveness of our decklists to play with the metagame and to have the most efficient(consistent) decklist
It is really no different than SC2 build orders other than the fact that luck does come into play when you play any card game, but skill and a good "build order" should overcome the factor of luck I'd say about 90% of the time.

So just like TL we have our Pokemon Hub forum (www.pokegym.net for those interested)
Alot of the times on TL or stream chat or w/e else Starcraft 2 strategy is being talked about anytime a lower league posts a strategy/build order it usually instantly overlooked or they are bashed because they come from the lower leagues.

While most time it is true the stratagies build orders are bad but we shouldn't just disregard in whole. Why you ask?

Cause every strategy thats posted has the ability to grow into something great.

When I played pokemon I played all kinds of styles metagame styles(we called them archetype decks, so a 1-1-1 is a archetype build since its a popular strategy) rouge styles which were personally invented stratagies to counter the metagame. The hardest style to play but the most effective since suprise is the #1 strategy to any strategy game, in my opinion atleast.

Many of the decks(builds) that I won tournaments with, while I did create them myself but it was because of the lower leagues who threw out these bad ideas, which I turned into great ideas

Sometimes I would see a decklist and be like "well hmmmm we could change that, it then would have synergy with that then we could try this" which 80% of the time turned into a build order that couldn't work but it was worth a try.
On Pokegym(the TL of Pokmon) everyone posts their strategies and they dont get scrutinized because to be honest the Pokemon community is actually really nice compared to the other TCG communities.

The SC2 community is to critical.
People are afraid to post things because they are afraid they'll get flammed or whatever since they are lowers.

You know what I say to them
F*** them!
POST YOUR STRATEGIES!
Your builds may suck(lets be honest), but there is a pro, semi-pro out their that will/could turn it into something amazing.

Now some of you may think, now EggY why dont you just think of your own stuff why you have to steal?
When I played pokemon I credited the person that started the base idea, now its not to say I never invented my own builds, sometimes every inventor needs the kick to get the motor running.

By doing this we are helping the game GROW and make the community look a little more awesome.
So if your low league, mid league wood league POST.
None of us may never become a pro, because lets face it its very hard to
but maybe you'll see the base of your strategy on the main stage one day.

Happy Starcrafting
~cheers!

****
Heh_
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Singapore2712 Posts
May 25 2012 15:41 GMT
#2
Wait... Pokemon had a competitive aspect? I thought it was all about scamming little kids?

The reason why lower league players get flamed so frequently is because they suggest stuff that are simply wrong, like saying that 2rax PvT is easy to hold off because it comes at 8 minutes instead of 5:30. What may be the "norm" in lower leagues, isn't in higher leagues due to poor execution, response etc.
=Þ
EggYsc2
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
620 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-25 15:52:00
May 25 2012 15:50 GMT
#3
On May 26 2012 00:41 Heh_ wrote:
Wait... Pokemon had a competitive aspect? I thought it was all about scamming little kids?

The reason why lower league players get flamed so frequently is because they suggest stuff that are simply wrong, like saying that 2rax PvT is easy to hold off because it comes at 8 minutes instead of 5:30. What may be the "norm" in lower leagues, isn't in higher leagues due to poor execution, response etc.


Thats the exact thinking that the SC2 community has and we have to change it
but it doesnt mean the base raw strategy isnt bad
IE lets get fast +1 lings, make it look like were going to macro but all in

To many people think of this game as a build order game
its a strategy game
anyone can stratagize
but not everyone can execute at a high level thats where pros come into play
FuRong
Profile Joined April 2010
New Zealand3089 Posts
May 25 2012 15:51 GMT
#4
I agree with your point, but I still think people will generally look to pro matches for new builds and metagame changes. Most of the "big" changes or new strategies we see tend to come out in top matches, especially the GSL where people get to prepare builds against a known opponent on known maps.

As an aside, if you were involved in the Pokemon TCG community for 10 years, I probably know who you are, haha.

I remember Pooka made a couple of TCG related posts here last year, you can probably find them if you search.

+ Show Spoiler +
Also, I hate to be a spelling nazi, but I used to see this mistake so often on Pokemon boards...it's "rogue", not "rouge"~
Don't hate the player, hate the game
EggYsc2
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
620 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-25 15:54:57
May 25 2012 15:54 GMT
#5
Furong I was part of Jimmy Ballard Crew/Lafonte etc
well still am I MIGHT play at nationals this year well see.

If a pro#2 copies a pro#1 their already behind pro #1 because when pro #2 is building off a strategy from pro #1 that pro#1 is already making a new strategy
so if pro #2 goes to a different source he can catch up
Marksman
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Malaysia523 Posts
May 25 2012 16:00 GMT
#6
Pokemon cards....ah the long old days for me.

Anyway I agree with Heh_. The variables change dramatically between leagues. However, theorycrafting is a possible venture by lower league players using high level play timings but to what I know, the topic tends to get...not so nicey after some time.
I live by the LoL
Heh_
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Singapore2712 Posts
May 25 2012 16:25 GMT
#7
99.99999999% of the time, the base raw strategy is bad. If a bronze league player worker rushes to victory, would he make a guide about it claiming that you can use it to win a GSL? Yes he can, but he'll get flamed by everyone else and the thread will be quickly closed. These lower league players don't have the understanding and mechanical skill to invent and test out high level strats. Unless you actually know what you're talking about, it's best to shut up.
=Þ
EggYsc2
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
620 Posts
May 25 2012 17:57 GMT
#8
I wish TL would have a sub forum where people could brainstorm
and not have to post replays everytime they have an idea
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