• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 06:48
CET 12:48
KST 20:48
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies3ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !11Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2
StarCraft 2
General
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced! What's the best tug of war? The Grack before Christmas Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies
Tourneys
OSC Season 13 World Championship $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship $100 Prize Pool - Winter Warp Gate Masters Showdow Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play
Brood War
General
What are former legends up to these days? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion How soO Began His ProGaming Dreams Klaucher discontinued / in-game color settings
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] LB SemiFinals - Saturday 21:00 CET [BSL21] WB & LB Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Has Anyone Tried Kamagra Chewable for ED? 12 Days of Starcraft The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
National Diversity: A Challe…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Saturation point
Uldridge
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1702 users

My board game: Legacy

Blogs > dimfish
Post a Reply
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-24 13:59:08
May 24 2012 02:01 GMT
#1
Oh man, my mapping blog! I must have been crazy thinking I would post interesting stuff here when really I spent all my free time making stuff, like the map analyzer and helping MotM get off the ground and whatnot.

Anywho, I have a lot less free time than when I was mapping, but I have definitely been putting it to good use. I enjoy designing games as a hobby, and I think I really hit on something good with a board game I call Legacy. I started working on it in November and now I have a physical design and an online version that you can play for free.

I've done tons of in-person testing to bring the game to a pretty mature state. Now I'm ready to release this pig in the wild and I can think of no better public arena to debut a strategy game than TeamLiquid!

So what is Legacy?

Legacy is an abstract strategy game that you can play with any number of players. It works like this: there is a deck of 93 cards, one card for each number 1 through 90 and three special cards called journey cards.

Draw a card. Usually the card is a number, say 34. Every player then adds 34 to some part of his or her legacy, which I'll talk more about in a bit. Then you draw the next card, maybe its 89, and again every player uses the number 89. When you draw a journey card you just set it aside where everyone can see and draw another card. The journey cards set the pace of the game: when you draw the third journey the game is over, so you might not draw every numbered card in a single game. (For math nerds: no matter how many numbered cards there are, if you shuffle three journey cards into the deck you will probably draw about 2/3 of the numbered cards before the third journey.)

So what are you doing with these numbered cards? You add them to one of the three elements of your legacy, which are your garden, your opus and your empire. The three elements of your legacy have different structures and different scoring systems, and you add the three scores together to get your total legacy score. The ultimate goal of Legacy is to have the highest-scoring legacy when the third journey is drawn.

Here's an example game, just to give you a quick taste:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


This page has the full game rules but I'll give you the quick descriptions of the opus, garden and empire to try and hook you.

Opus
Your opus kind of looks like musical notes: each new number gets added to the right-end and the numbers alternate "high" and then "low." The key feature of the opus is the 1's digit of the numbers you play in it. You add all the 1's digits in "high" position (so the 9's kick ass here) and you subtract all the 1's digits in "low" position (you want 10, 20, etc, down low). The opus is the only element where you can always play a number, so sometimes I make sub-par plays in the early game just to make sure I'm not forced to put a 39 in "low" position, for example.

Empire
You play numbers in the empire like a grid, with the restriction that adjacent numbers have to alternate between even and odd. Your objective here is to build a rectangle, like a wall, and the score of the empire is the width times the height of the rectangle. You can play safe and build a tiny rectangle, and then enlarge it if the game goes longer, or you can play risky and go for a huge perimeter that uses numbers efficiently. (For the math nerds again: square-ish rectangles score better than a skinny rectangle that uses the same amount of played numbers.) (For strategy nerds: skinny rectangles are easier to extend indefinitely and then suddenly close off when the end of the game draws near.)

Garden
Your garden looks like a tree. You play new numbers as if they branch off some number already in the garden, but the new number has to be smaller than the number it branches from, kind of like the branches of a tree that get smaller as they get farther from the trunk. The goal of the garden is to have as many leaves as possible, where a leaf is a number that has no other numbers branching from it.


So yeah, go read the full rules and/or start playing online! Then when you've played a couple of games and you get the hang of the scoring, come back to this next part if you are the competitive type, which is why I'm bringing this to TL in the first place.

How to compete with other Legacy players
Remember I said this is a strategy game for any number of players? If you get a physical copy you can play with any number of people you can cram into one place, of course, but what about online?

The online version lets you punch in a game number when it starts up. If you put in the same game number you will get the exact same deck shuffle, so I can play game number 12345 and you can play 12345 and we can directly compare our scores because we drew the same numbers in the same order. And before you ask, no I am not going to code up some explicit multiplayer or make some database backend for a simple reason: it is really easy to cheat. So as far as I'm concerned the game is for groups of people who trust each other to actually post the results of their first true play of a game number. And TL is literally the only place on the internet where I think you can find more than one person willing to do this!!

So let me end my public debut of Legacy with my own score for Game Number #12345
+ Show Spoiler [12345] +
[image loading]


I hope you enjoy my game!


EDIT: Let's establish a bit of Legacy netiquette: always put scores and game discussions in a spoiler tagged with the game number. I changed the spoiler tag above that's hiding my screen shot of game 12345 to follow this.

*****
Namrufus
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States396 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-24 04:17:30
May 24 2012 03:39 GMT
#2
wow! This is amazing! I like the tension between the different structures.

+ Show Spoiler [score on #12345] +

201
not as good as dimfish's


what about the 1 in 778596(i think) seeds that produce games with three journey cards at the start?
This is it... the alpaca lips.
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
May 24 2012 04:10 GMT
#3
On May 24 2012 12:39 Namrufus wrote:
wow! This is amazing! I like the tension between the different structures.

...

what about the 1 in 778596(i think) seeds that produce games with three journey cards at the start?


Dude! Put your score in a spoiler! Other people can guess how long the game is before they play if they see your score. Even if you want to play honestly you can't "unsee!"

I'm glad you enjoyed it, and yeah, there are some games where you could draw all three journeys BAM-BAM-BAM but I haven't had one yet in probably hundreds of games.
Archas
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6531 Posts
May 24 2012 04:12 GMT
#4
I guess you just shuffle the deck and regame at that point. Or you can bitch about how none of your legacies were worth talking about! :D
The room is ripe with the stench of bitches!
Namrufus
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States396 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-24 04:24:35
May 24 2012 04:18 GMT
#5
On May 24 2012 13:10 dimfish wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 24 2012 12:39 Namrufus wrote:
wow! This is amazing! I like the tension between the different structures.

...

what about the 1 in 778596(i think) seeds that produce games with three journey cards at the start?


Dude! Put your score in a spoiler! Other people can guess how long the game is before they play if they see your score. Even if you want to play honestly you can't "unsee!"

I'm glad you enjoyed it, and yeah, there are some games where you could draw all three journeys BAM-BAM-BAM but I haven't had one yet in probably hundreds of games.


oops. sorry, I didn't think of that.

edit:
and on a tangent, thanks for making the sc2 map analyzer, I use it all the time still.

also, how would you feel if I made a small program (for myself only) to simulate legacy in order to test combinations and strategies and other stuff?
This is it... the alpaca lips.
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
May 24 2012 04:43 GMT
#6
On May 24 2012 13:12 Archas wrote:
I guess you just shuffle the deck and regame at that point. Or you can bitch about how none of your legacies were worth talking about! :D


Now that you've both got me thinking about it, I want to have a game where you draw one number, everyone labors furiously about what do with it, AND then draw three journeys.



On May 24 2012 13:18 Namrufus wrote:
and on a tangent, thanks for making the sc2 map analyzer, I use it all the time still.

that was also a labor of love


On May 24 2012 13:18 Namrufus wrote:
also, how would you feel if I made a small program (for myself only) to simulate legacy in order to test combinations and strategies and other stuff?

I don't mind if you do that or if you distribute it even!

I've put a lot of gamer-types on Legacy and I think the three elements have just the right interplay. For instance, the empire and garden didn't have the bonuses they have now, and they only caught up to the scoring potential of the opus if there were even MORE numbers. Basically, the opus's potential is steep then drops off, the empire can be exponential (this is all in terms of score as a function of the amount of played numbers) if you are willing to commit to a certain size, and the garden is actually linear. Anywho, I think between some of my own calculations, simulations and tons of playtesting that its at a good place, BUT you'll never know what people can do with a game until you release to a huge group of smart people.

So yeah, please hack away! I want to know if you can break this game!
LastWish
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
2015 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-24 08:10:37
May 24 2012 08:10 GMT
#7
#12345:
Got: 32+159+41=232

Went for biggest garden and didn't care about opus and tree much, I guess it's a bit risky that way.
Imo best strategy probably is medium sized square garden + focus on tree. To me opus seems to be just a filling not a real score maker.
- It's all just treason - They bring me down with their lies - Don't know the reason - My life is fire and ice -
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
May 24 2012 13:56 GMT
#8
LastWish, please put your score in a spoiler! I'll put something in the OP, I think we should always do that.

On May 24 2012 17:10 LastWish wrote:
Went for biggest garden and didn't care about opus and tree much, I guess it's a bit risky that way.
Imo best strategy probably is medium sized square garden + focus on tree. To me opus seems to be just a filling not a real score maker.


So by "garden" I think you mean empire (make a rectangle) and then "tree" is the garden (make a tree), and yes its risky to go for a big empire but it really depends on how you manage the risk whether you will be successful with that over many games, kind of like risky Starcraft play I suppose.

LEt's say you start your empire as an "L" shape, just one corner and two growing sides and you haven't even gotten the first journey yet. I'd say this is less risky than just saying "no matter what I'm going to build an 8-by-8" empire. And less risky yet: build a small rectangle and evaluate your situation: should I now leave the empire alone or is there probably enough time to extend the rectangle? If you keep extending and the game ends suddenly, you can always choose the biggest rectangle you completed.

Also, don't count the opus out! The opus gives you the quickest return for your investment. A "9-0-9-0-9" is 27 points for five numbers played which is a whopping 5.4 score-per-number-played. If we drew one or two journeys very early in the game I think I would concentrate on the opus.
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
May 24 2012 16:54 GMT
#9
Oh, I'm going to be at Gamex/Strategicon this Saturday in LA. Drop me a line if you're going and want to meet up, I'll bring a copy of Legacy but I think there's also an open area where people set out their board games for anyone to play so there will be a lot to choose from.
DeMorcerf
Profile Joined June 2011
United States56 Posts
May 24 2012 20:47 GMT
#10
I like how it is deceptively simple. You took something basic, organizing numbers in patterns and made it strategic and complex. I don't imagine it as something I'd play repeatedly at one sitting, but a different and nice game to play between others. Kudos.
"Yavaş, Yavaş!" What's round on the ends and high in the middle? Ohio!
dimfish
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States663 Posts
May 24 2012 21:30 GMT
#11
On May 25 2012 05:47 DeMorcerf wrote:
I like how it is deceptively simple. You took something basic, organizing numbers in patterns and made it strategic and complex. I don't imagine it as something I'd play repeatedly at one sitting, but a different and nice game to play between others. Kudos.


Thanks! It took a lot of tinkering to find the right amount of depth while keeping it simple. I'll give you my secret: I tried to keep the entire rulebook, diagrams included, to one page. If you've tried to design your own games then I bet you know how wordy the rules for even simple systems can get.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 12m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 193
Rex 59
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 6257
Jaedong 978
Soma 422
Stork 408
Larva 352
Mini 255
Sharp 216
Hyuk 209
BeSt 208
Zeus 180
[ Show more ]
Hyun 160
ZerO 152
EffOrt 146
910 107
Snow 105
Pusan 93
Rush 93
Barracks 79
Shuttle 73
Leta 69
JYJ 64
NotJumperer 49
Mind 38
soO 36
Shine 33
sorry 30
Sea.KH 30
ToSsGirL 24
zelot 22
Yoon 20
Movie 16
GoRush 15
ajuk12(nOOB) 15
HiyA 12
Noble 12
Bale 4
Dota 2
Fuzer 242
XcaliburYe184
NeuroSwarm162
League of Legends
C9.Mang0420
JimRising 367
Counter-Strike
summit1g9517
olofmeister1501
shoxiejesuss835
x6flipin683
edward257
Other Games
B2W.Neo1141
Mew2King81
ZerO(Twitch)14
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick705
BasetradeTV38
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• naamasc260
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos2216
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
12m
Rex70
WardiTV15
OSC
1d
Solar vs MaxPax
ByuN vs Krystianer
Spirit vs TBD
OSC
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
OSC
5 days
OSC
5 days
OSC
6 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
Escore Tournament S1: W2
Escore Tournament S1: W3
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
Nations Cup 2026
NA Kuram Kup
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.