On May 18 2012 21:18 Random() wrote: You're giving the 90s games too much credit. Try replaying them now, you will find that very few if any actually match that impression, especially regarding the gameplay innovations.
Fallout:NV, Dragon Age 1, Mass Effect 1 and Witcher 1/2 are really really good relatively recent RPGs in my book, on the other hand I think Skyrim totally sucks (feels like playing WoW in single player) and Diablo 3 is OK but nothing special.
How about Portal 2? Isn't that fun fresh gameplay? Or Relic's RTSs?
And to be honest I hate most indie games these days that try too hard to "innovate", because too often their whole gameplay is dependent on one gameplay gimmick, and as soon as that gets old (which is within 15 minutes for me on average) the game gets totally boring.
I've actually replayed Fallout 1 and 2 recently, and not long time ago Planescape and Baldur's Gate. They didn't lose anything in my opinion. Gameplay is super smooth and the storylines are better than in most of the movies...
The whole OP can be disregarded the minute we realize that Skyrim is a "blockbuster", much like Transformers. Do you say that cinema sucks because of Sucker Punch and American Pie? No. Because there's still Valhalla Rising or El secreto de sus ojos for a more demanding public, just like Baldur's Gate will always be there to welcome those who seek a higher form of expression. Or Okami, or Shadow of the Colossus, or MGS2.
On May 19 2012 01:25 Kukaracha wrote: The whole OP can be disregarded the minute we realize that Skyrim is a "blockbuster", much like Transformers. Do you say that cinema sucks because of Sucker Punch and American Pie? No. Because there's still Valhalla Rising or El secreto de sus ojos for a more demanding public, just like Baldur's Gate will always be there to welcome those who seek a higher form of expression. Or Okami, or Shadow of the Colossus, or MGS2.
On May 19 2012 01:25 Kukaracha wrote: The whole OP can be disregarded the minute we realize that Skyrim is a "blockbuster", much like Transformers. Do you say that cinema sucks because of Sucker Punch and American Pie? No. Because there's still Valhalla Rising or El secreto de sus ojos for a more demanding public, just like Baldur's Gate will always be there to welcome those who seek a higher form of expression. Or Okami, or Shadow of the Colossus, or MGS2.
Yeah but that started happening in the latter half of the 00's. Before that you almost never saw a game being promoted like crazy and eventually selling millions of copies even though it was not so good. Prior to that only the real gems were selling by the millions, bw, myst, doom, etc. So you can say that games nowdays are bad cause of the blockbuster identity they have assimilated.
The Grand Theft Auto series has very well delivered narratives as far as blockbusters go. I include Red Dead Redemption in that spiritual series. The Uncharted series isn't awful even tho it's cookie-cutter.
Right now, I think video game graphics are improving so much that developers want to push the limit and see what they can do with that. I don't see a problem with that. It's not always "creative" in terms of gameplay, but in terms of visuals, games have really made a big leap in the last 10 years. I, for one, can at least appreciate that aspect where games have really advanced themselves.
On May 19 2012 01:47 ninazerg wrote: Right now, I think video game graphics are improving so much that developers want to push the limit and see what they can do with that. I don't see a problem with that. It's not always "creative" in terms of gameplay, but in terms of visuals, games have really made a big leap in the last 10 years. I, for one, can at least appreciate that aspect where games have really advanced themselves.
Well. Final Fantasy X came out 11 years ago and I don't think we have really transcended that level of graphics yet. If you said 12 years I would have agreed with you.
On May 19 2012 01:47 ninazerg wrote: Right now, I think video game graphics are improving so much that developers want to push the limit and see what they can do with that. I don't see a problem with that. It's not always "creative" in terms of gameplay, but in terms of visuals, games have really made a big leap in the last 10 years. I, for one, can at least appreciate that aspect where games have really advanced themselves.
Well. Final Fantasy X came out 11 years ago and I don't think we have really transcended that level of graphics yet. If you said 12 years I would have agreed with you.
On May 18 2012 22:01 JDub wrote: You should play Braid. Small indie puzzle game but the only game recently (besides Limbo) that has truly blown me away.
This is a great suggestion. The way I feel is that since gaming has to appeal to the masses, most games are made for casual gamers who don't care about anything other than camping their friends in a call of duty. Most of the good ones are indie made, like the two mentioned above, Dead Pixels, etc. Otherwise, you gotta go back to the 90s and play some of the games from around then, especially some of the rpgs. The quality of story telling, gameplay, and grandness is so much higher in these games, and they have convinced me to continue playing on many occasions. Right now I am in the process of playing through Final Fantasy Tactics.
On May 19 2012 01:39 Fyodor wrote: I thought you'd be all over Heavy Rain. Being French and all.
I don't own a PS3, so I prefer not to talk about a game I haven't played. But I'm happy there's a French touch, true.
On May 19 2012 01:40 Steveling wrote: Yeah but that started happening in the latter half of the 00's. Before that you almost never saw a game being promoted like crazy and eventually selling millions of copies even though it was not so good. Prior to that only the real gems were selling by the millions, bw, myst, doom, etc. So you can say that games nowdays are bad cause of the blockbuster identity they have assimilated.
There were also gems that didn't sell so well, like I have no mouth and I must scream. Not only that, but you have to consider the commercial success of a product proportionally to the market it can reach, which was smaller before 2000. Final Fantasy VII for example was a blockbuster, and many agree on its quality.
In short, "blockbuster" is a relative term and is not necessarily pejorative. The Social Network and Barry Lindon (which wasn't a great sucess but emplyoed great means of production), or even Eyes Wide Shut are in this regard "big movies" with a big budget. Are they bad because of this?
Many also seem to forget that video games are young, just a little more than 40 years old. You could compare it to cinema in the late 30s... was it only made of masterpieces? Sure no, Hollywood was rising and even before this the majority of the production was designed as entertainment. People mostly remember Fritz Lang but at the time he was a filmmaker among others. The first talkie, The Jazz singer, was in fact pretty crappy.
Video games aren't bad nowadays. There are just more video games, and the industry is very profitable. That's all. Saying the contrary is equal to saying that music is crap today, but there were many crappy composers in Bach's time, and there are plenty of good bands today.
On May 18 2012 22:01 JDub wrote: You should play Braid. Small indie puzzle game but the only game recently (besides Limbo) that has truly blown me away.
Agreed
The witcher 2 is an awesome single player game. It's way better than skyrim. The witcher 2 reminds me of Braid in a lot of ways. Awesome graphics, gameplay, music, storyline, everything.
Then there's starcraft 2, the best game ever. Good games do exist. Just don't play fable 3.
In the last 2-3 years or so, only Amnesia: The dark descent fascinated me. I'm a big fan of good gameplay games (I don't care about graphics and stories) and how they did Amnesia is just really innovative and surprising.
On May 18 2012 21:18 Random() wrote: You're giving the 90s games too much credit. Try replaying them now, you will find that very few if any actually match that impression, especially regarding the gameplay innovations.
Fallout:NV, Dragon Age 1, Mass Effect 1 and Witcher 1/2 are really really good relatively recent RPGs in my book, on the other hand I think Skyrim totally sucks (feels like playing WoW in single player) and Diablo 3 is OK but nothing special.
How about Portal 2? Isn't that fun fresh gameplay? Or Relic's RTSs?
And to be honest I hate most indie games these days that try too hard to "innovate", because too often their whole gameplay is dependent on one gameplay gimmick, and as soon as that gets old (which is within 15 minutes for me on average) the game gets totally boring.
I bought a lot of games from gog.com and i have to say: Might and Magic 4&5 (_not_ HOMM) are still great - eventhough more than twice as hard as i remembered. I remember early on in the dwarf mines going against the dwarven king and dying 20 times until i finally found a way to defeat him with my party combination.
Baldurs Gate 1&2 are also still as good as i remembered. I have (actually not that) fond memories of facepalming when i learned that koveras is sarevok and of epic battles where i had to retry them 10 times until i got them right and noone in my party died. Or of meeting Drizzt Do'Urden and stealing his swords.
Master of Orion 2 is more fun than any space strategy - or more modern 4X - game that came after it (and i've tried just about all of them). It is still a great feeling, fighting through endless wars until you finally have the breakthrough and get deathstars and then flying around blowing up all the planets.
I also still enjoy Dungeon Keeper 1&2, though i can't name any specific memories.
The Realms of Arkania games are even more complex than i remembered but still fun, eventhough i die on every corner. For a long time i remembered the phrases of every spell you could cast in that game (about 40 or so which all had different phrases, not just sound effects). I also remember travelling through some swamps and my whole party going ill and me not having the items/skills to heal, so all of them died a cruel death.
I even had a blast playing Cannon Fodder and Syndicate again, more specifically of accidently blowing up my own guys with grenades or rocket launchers. In Syndicate i remember thinking "That gun sounds like fun, i wonder what it does" (i think it was plasma gun or so) and then shooting at opponents, hitting the wall next to my soldiers and all of them dying a fiery death. Or the persuasion target getting caught in the crossfire, causing the mission to fail.
Quake 2, the panic where you jump into water to get to the other side... and then suddenly get attacked by a fish and struggle to get out of the water ASAP.
Master of Magic - still an unrivalled game - where i still mourn the loss of many brave heroes that i sent into a dungeon containing "Earth elementals"... only to find out that they also contained Basilisks who turned the whole group into stone one by one. Or where i went into a blue magic node against weak phantom warriors... and then suddenly invisible monsters killed all my units. I tried all games that pretended to be MoM, including the recent Warlock - Master of the Arcane, but none even got close.
X-Com: Enemy unknown (aka Ufo Defense in the US) and Terror from the Deep. So much fun... until you go up against either the opponents that turn your soldiers into zombies that in turn turn other soldiers into zombies or the mind controlling aliens... or both. I remember lots of frustration, my whole team panicing, soldiers shooting each other in panic... but also so much joy when you finally managed to beat the aliens after lots of saving and loading.
It's not all just nostalgia, some older games _are_ better than modern games. I have played all of the mentioned games in the past 2-3 month and still continue to play those i haven't beat yet.
Games that i haven't played recently but that i still love: * Tie Fighter and - more recent - X-Wing: Alliance. If i ever buy a joystick again, i'd get XW:A immedatly because it's still the most fun space combat game ever (and don't talk to me about X or such). * Descent 1 (not Descent:Freespace). I remember the nausea you could get from losing your orientation as well as the epic multiplayer fights we had on the school network.
Honorary mention due to khaldor: I nearly forgot the Commander Keen Series eventhough i played all the parts for days. Such great games.
Most of the games that are discussed here in this thread I have never played and only know by name or from youtube videos. However, from what I do know I tend to agree with the OP.
Bottom line is: better graphics don't necessarily make for better games.
Skyrim was fun and was pleasing to look at, but I honestly grew bored with the game because the combat just got boring and uninteresting. And I just got busy with real life to spend hours exploring. And i bought it for the PS3 and it was soo buggy at first that I couldn't even play so that turned me off.
Mass effect 2 and mass effect 3 (never played 1 cause again I bought them on ps3 but ME 2 on ps3 does give a recap of ME 1) Were amazing games. Honestly were the best games I have played in a long time, and personally I'd put these above Zelda OOT, FF 7, and w/e other games id place in my top 5. I am pretty biased with this franchise, but it had everything I wanted in a story.
On May 18 2012 21:36 blubbdavid wrote: Play shadow of the colossus. It's a PS2 game, and holy shit, it blew my mind. I value it higher than my alltime favorite BW.
I second this. SotC was epic, and definitely one of my top 3 games of all time.
I do sympathize with you, about how most video games suck. You have to actively seek out original games. I play a lot of offbeat/indie games. I always have wondered why video game companies spend so much time and energy on gameplay/graphics, etc, but can't seem to hire a decent storyteller or voice actor. I would think the cost of that would be quite low compared to all the other production elements.
EPT
