|
Pretty dresses are sexist!
Women must wear uglier clothes!
Perhaps you white knights should realize that the endgame is where you stop thinking it is your place to tell women how to dress.
Also, if you feel those women are scantly dressed, go live in Saudi-Arabia. Though, in Saudi-Arabia I heard some women dare to show off the eyes. WHORES!
And lastly, who gives a shit if they only have a moderate understanding of Starcraft 2? They are running a show, not playing the game itself.
I don't recall anyone asking the Oscar hosts for their opinion on Citizen Kane.
|
So your whole problem is that beautiful women that are active members of the SC2 community wore dresses at a live tournament? If Anna started parading about in her Miss Oregon USA swimsuit while she was introducing the players, I might be able to see your point...but she didn't, so I don't.
They looked great - you've got your panties in a twist about nothing.
|
On April 16 2012 18:18 MrCon wrote:
Seems you're not used to go into casinos or high standing hotels. Not that I'm used to it, but this is super standard to be well dressed, especially for women (:D), in those places.
I've been to quite a few casinos and I have a totally different experience from you. The women that work there are dressed extremely professional. White blouse and often a black west, no loose hair, totally subdued colors and no revealing outfits at all.
Edit: Better?
|
On April 16 2012 18:37 surfinbird1 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 18:18 MrCon wrote:
Seems you're not used to go into casinos or high standing hotels. Not that I'm used to it, but this is super standard to be well dressed, especially for women (:D), in those places. I've been to quite a few casinos and I have a totally different experience from you. The women that work there are dressed extremely professional. White blouse and often a black west, no loose hair, totally subdued and not feminine at all.
Just how I like em.
|
uhh no? What about what any of them is wearing is overly sexual? All of them are covered up, and quite frankly, what they're wearing is a lot more modest than some of the other formal gowns you'll find. Having the sides cut out, so to speak, is pretty common in formal gowns. It's also not uncommon to have back exposed or even mid-drift. Not all women wear those dresses, of course, because not all women can and not all women feel comfortable doing so. She has the body to do so and feels pretty in it, so why shouldn't she wear it?
It is sexist because all the women here are being objectified. You guys are making it out as if these women aren't capable of dressing themselves. As if they didn't consciously make the decision to put these clothes on, and, for whatever reason, need to be protected from being sexualized by men. But that's only half right. Yes, there is a tremendous problem with the over sexualization of women in nearly every male dominated community, but it's not because of how we dress. I can tell you from personal experience that it doesn't matter what you're wearing; if you are a lady involved in e-sports there will always someone there to remind you of your genitals and how happy they make him. The last gaming convention I went to I got there after 12 hours of driving. I showed up in jeans and a button up shirt. Basically, I looked terrible. There were still men there going out of there way to talk to me. And there was one guy who kept telling me "if you can't find a seat you could always sit on my lap."
o_o When you attribute their sexualization to what they're wearing you are victim blaming. It is not their fault for choosing to dress a certain way. It's the fault of a community who looks at them and turns them into sexual objects. It's not just e-sports. It's anywhere that has a predominately male fanbase. Look at reddit. Every picture of a girl ever posted on reddit, regardless of what she is wearing, is full of comments made about boobs/someone searching for her gw pics/whether or not they'd bang/or some disgusting combination of the three. We could show up at e-sport conventions dressed in burkas and there'd still be men there to tell us about their penises.
|
Did I think the dresses were inappropriate? Not really. These are some fantastic looking women. That being said, of the three you posted I do like the middle dressed one the best simply because I seem to be more drawn to the casual wear. I personally find that appealing that a girl can dress nicely in more casual wear. Obviously Anna looks absolutely astonishing and beautiful in her dress too, as does the Korean caster in her wear. Rachel has the cute casual girl appeal too - the guy who is dating her on here is a very lucky man indeed as you can tell she's a wonderful and generic person. That's a sort of charm that a hot dress can't portray. This is more interesting to me personally than how hot a girl looks as I want to identify with these people as human beings, rather than as sex objects.This is why I've grown to love Rachel's interviews because she portrays a general sense that she's intelligent and loves her job as well as this scene, and I can identify with this. That fact that she's also fantastic to look at, well that's a huge bonus too, but it's really just refreshing to see her energy.
I think the biggest issue is marketing here. If the women are there to help promote (and they are obviously) then if they upstage what the focus should be (ie - the players) and take the focus away from those players, then it's not really accomplishing the goal. If I want to watch hot women in action, I'm more inclined to watch a television series or even porn, not IPL4. I'm watching IPL4 because I want to see some bad-ass games and watch some esports drama unfold in front of my eyes. I honestly don't have a problem with the women going around as long as it's not taking away from that focus. I think it has a place for sure, as mentioned above with Rachel, but it's a balance that we haven't quite gotten yet.
Also there's lots of instances where sex appeal is used to a devastating effect. One could use exams of Nascar, motorsports, pro-wrestling, even boxing. It just depends on which direction esports wants to go into.
|
Anna looked very well dressed and formal. I don't understand your point. It looks professional and definitly not sex appeal.
She is the host and it is normal for her to be more glamorous than casters etc
|
Honestly I think any post that makes reference to "hurting ESPORTS" should result in a warning.
For gods sake just say you didnt like the outfits. Why do people have to pretend like they are objectively protecting the entire progaming establishment from destruction or other such ridiculousness.
|
This is another front in the ideological battle that is occurring with video games becoming a spectator sport. Professional sports players are more popular if they're good looking, which in all likelihood affects their chances of being scouted, drafted, sponsored, etc. BW progamers go through hair and makeup every time they play a live game. I have no idea if SC2 players do, too, but I would assume so.
The naturalised truth of the media is that aesthetics is just important, if not more important, than anything knowledge, personality and skill. You want someone to watch your production, you have to cast someone who people will enjoy looking at - which is why the vast majority of successful actors are beautiful, or at least, aesthetically interesting, people. It sounds shallow, but it's about as shallow as men only wanting to sleep with "hot" women.
Realistically, if this were a television studio production, the producers would have been telling those girls what to wear, or very likely have narrowed it down for them - not only for sponsorship/advertising purposes, but also for the issue that has been raised here, which is appropriateness. Experienced producers should know their audience. They would also, I'm assuming, play it safe. I doubt anyone would have complained about people dressing too casually for the event, given the gaming context (casual, fun, not really glamorous) - especially if everyone was at roughly the same level of formality, which seems to be the problem here.
|
I dont think it matters that much what they wear tbh. In time, a certain style will begin to prevail. The only thing these ladies need to take into consideration that the more serious you dress the more serious you will be taken. I suppose that any style could work for e-sports, but my personal preferance is definetely, the clothing style of the korean GSL lady. She always seems very classy and dressed appropriately for whatever the event was (I recall her wearing a (classy) dress during GSL finals).
|
On April 16 2012 18:51 pedostare wrote:uhh no? What about what any of them is wearing is overly sexual? All of them are covered up, and quite frankly, what they're wearing is a lot more modest than some of the other formal gowns you'll find. Having the sides cut out, so to speak, is pretty common in formal gowns. It's also not uncommon to have back exposed or even mid-drift. Not all women wear those dresses, of course, because not all women can and not all women feel comfortable doing so. She has the body to do so and feels pretty in it, so why shouldn't she wear it? It is sexist because all the women here are being objectified. You guys are making it out as if these women aren't capable of dressing themselves. As if they didn't consciously make the decision to put these clothes on, and, for whatever reason, need to be protected from being sexualized by men. But that's only half right. Yes, there is a tremendous problem with the over sexualization of women in nearly every male dominated community, but it's not because of how we dress. I can tell you from personal experience that it doesn't matter what you're wearing; if you are a lady involved in e-sports there will always someone there to remind you of your genitals and how happy they make him. The last gaming convention I went to I got there after 12 hours of driving. I showed up in jeans and a button up shirt. Basically, I looked terrible. There were still men there going out of there way to talk to me. And there was one guy who kept telling me "if you can't find a seat you could always sit on my lap." o_o When you attribute their sexualization to what they're wearing you are victim blaming. It is not their fault for choosing to dress a certain way. It's the fault of a community who looks at them and turns them into sexual objects. It's not just e-sports. It's anywhere that has a predominately male fanbase. Look at reddit. Every picture of a girl ever posted on reddit, regardless of what she is wearing, is full of comments made about boobs/someone searching for her gw pics/whether or not they'd bang/or some disgusting combination of the three. We could show up at e-sport conventions dressed in burkas and there'd still be men there to tell us about their penises.
I am going to use an example here. Almost all major sport tends to have women sideline reporters. They are typically dressed business casuallyish. It has become the norm and is expected. Similar to having all of the male tv talent be in a suit. Most of the viewers here for esports probably grew up watching football on TV with reporters like Erin Andrews. She is stunning, and ESPN could ask her to be in a cocktail dress at every event, but they don't. She typically is in pretty modest clothing, revealing very little in the way of skin, when working at a sporting event.
![[image loading]](http://static.thehollywoodgossip.com/images/gallery/erin-andrews-espn.jpg)
Watching someone in a cocktail dress interview someone in a T-shirt and sweats is awkward and feels extremely forced. Some of that is likely a result of conditioning of what to expect as far as player interviews. Anyhow every major network has a pretty similar dress code for their sideline interviewers, it is probably because it works.
It is not their fault for choosing to dress a certain way. And your right, like all the other talent at IPL they are most likely given guidelines as to what to wear by the stream producers ect.
You guys are making it out as if these women aren't capable of dressing themselves. As if they didn't consciously make the decision to put these clothes on, and, for whatever reason, need to be protected from being sexualized by men. Relatively certain they are receiving input what is expected as far as dress code from the stream producers, as they are acting as representatives of IGN. And if they are not being given guidelines as to what to wear they should be, just like the guys.
I am sorry that you feel that everyone who talks to you mentions their penis
|
On April 16 2012 19:30 sob3k wrote:
Honestly I think any post that makes reference to "hurting ESPORTS" should result in a warning.
For gods sake just say you didnt like the outfits. Why do people have to pretend like they are objectively protecting the entire progaming establishment from destruction or other such ridiculousness.
If that was the case I should get a warning every time I post.
|
On April 16 2012 18:37 surfinbird1 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2012 18:18 MrCon wrote:
Seems you're not used to go into casinos or high standing hotels. Not that I'm used to it, but this is super standard to be well dressed, especially for women (:D), in those places. I've been to quite a few casinos and I have a totally different experience from you. The women that work there are dressed extremely professional. White blouse and often a black west, no loose hair, totally subdued colors and no revealing outfits at all. Edit: Better?
I didn't mean women who are working there, but mostly customers. You see everything, from "normal" to very well dressed women. It's really common in Vegas.
|
If you ask around a bit, I'm fairly certain democracy will say that they did not mind their outfitting whatsoever.
|
some mad people here huh. This isnt about people telling woman what to wear, this is about the dresses being out of place at an event were people dresses casually.
Its like showing up in formal clothes to a casual party... Its gonna be awkward.
Personally i dont give a damn about how they dress but it doesnt change the fact that the tournament loses value if the host/hostess seems awkward/out of place to half the viewers.
also you cant compare this to motorsports and boxing. The number girls in boxing and the models at motorsport events have only one job and that is to be sexy and attract attention. These girls job was alot more than being sexy, and if you want to be taken serious at these jobs you dress accordingly nomatter if your male or female that is just the way the real world works.
(also the suits the male casters and hosts wear are normally dark colours and pretty bland, if they showed up in a flashy white suit it would also be out of place.)
|
To me the contrast in the formal/informal dress of the female announcers / progamers only highlighted the ridiculous roles they were asked to play.
Announcer - "Hey guys! Are you exited, WELL ARE YA? (plz make some noise). Ok let me introduce Player A & B. Player A, what strategy are you going to use to beat your opponent?"
Player - "uh, I can't tell you that"
A - "Excellent! So, what do you think of the USA, do you like hamburgers?"
P - "Uh, why are you asking me this stupid question right before I play my big game, are you not interested in SC2 at all? wtf, hambugers?"
A - "Excellent! so do you have fighting words for your opponent, like do you hate him or want to BM him in any way (because we like that)
P - "no I think he's a great player and I hope we have a good game"
A - "Excellent! So, shake hands really awkwardly because it's not the custom in your country and I'll hand you over to the males who will talk about the game because they know what they are talking about"
The trivial roles all the females were asked to play really was sexist. There is nothing wrong with being attractive, and I certainly don't think less of Anna and the rest, but there comes a point when you have male geeks casting the games supported by attractive dolled-up females performing a menial role, when you have to start asking questions in my opinion.
How about Anna and Rachel and Megumi actually do the same jobs as the boys, and they can all share the introducing/casting duties?
|
And why do we have that discussion?
Because progamers are still those skinny nerds who are too shy to say anything and stand there like a Neanderthal. Thats especially true for the korean players. Foreigners are adjusting it seems but are still miles away from what is needed.
E-Sports is the sport where the star players are presented in such a bad way compared to other sports or even other celebrities - it gets to me everytime.
THEY HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO PRESENT THEMSELVES. It is part of their job. Part of the business they are in. Like it or not.
That includes proper clothing and overall look and behaviour on stage and in interviews. They obviously need a coach, a manager or a whole backup team to achieve this.
After that is done the whole situation with overdressed female moderators is nullified.
PS: I think what Kennigit wrote on reddit is totally wrong. If we go on with this kind of thinking E-Sports will stagnate. Take it to the next level! Instead of saying "the females are overdressed in a bad way". Say "the players are not presented in a proper way for an event like that!"
|
On April 16 2012 18:03 alhazrel wrote:
They're wearing dresses not bikinis, television news anchors wear more revealing clothes than this. What is the male equivalent of a dress anyway? do you think it could be a suit, maybe?
No. Television news anchors don't wear more revealing clothes than that.
|
On April 16 2012 21:38 chroniX wrote:
And why do we have that discussion?
Because progamers are still those skinny nerds who are too shy to say anything and stand there like a Neanderthal. Thats especially true for the korean players. Foreigners are adjusting it seems but are still miles away from what is needed.
E-Sports is the sport where the star players are presented in such a bad way compared to other sports or even other celebrities - it gets to me everytime.
THEY HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO PRESENT THEMSELVES. It is part of their job. Part of the business they are in. Like it or not.
That includes proper clothing and overall look and behaviour on stage and in interviews. They obviously need a coach, a manager or a whole backup team to achieve this.
After that is done the whole situation with overdressed female moderators is nullified.
PS: I think what Kennigit wrote on reddit is totally wrong. If we go on with this kind of thinking E-Sports will stagnate. Take it to the next level! Instead of saying "the females are overdressed in a bad way". Say "the players are not presented in a proper way for an event like that!"
What makes you think the players are not presented appropriately for the event? You think they should all be playing in suits?
|
On April 16 2012 21:38 chroniX wrote:
And why do we have that discussion?
Because progamers are still those skinny nerds who are too shy to say anything and stand there like a Neanderthal. Thats especially true for the korean players. Foreigners are adjusting it seems but are still miles away from what is needed.
E-Sports is the sport where the star players are presented in such a bad way compared to other sports or even other celebrities - it gets to me everytime.
THEY HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO PRESENT THEMSELVES. It is part of their job. Part of the business they are in. Like it or not.
That includes proper clothing and overall look and behaviour on stage and in interviews. They obviously need a coach, a manager or a whole backup team to achieve this.
After that is done the whole situation with overdressed female moderators is nullified.
PS: I think what Kennigit wrote on reddit is totally wrong. If we go on with this kind of thinking E-Sports will stagnate. Take it to the next level! Instead of saying "the females are overdressed in a bad way". Say "the players are not presented in a proper way for an event like that!"
Players in a team jersey and a decent pair of pants are fine. It is better if they have the full uniform with pants, but still not completely necessary. Players are there to represent their sponsors, to do that they need to be wearing the team jersey.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
