EPTHot Chicks in Dresses at IPL4 - Page 3
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HeeroFX
United States2704 Posts
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Jinsho
United Kingdom3101 Posts
Second, you have no right to comment on what they should be wearing. That is an issue between her and the production team. Her clothing, very objectively, does not affect your viewing experience of the SC2 matches. Third, Kennigit's comments are just as stupid. Presenters have a foreground role and serve as eyecatchers. What works in Seoul does not work in Las Vegas. To say that the focus should be on the players who are on stage 99.99% of the time instead of the women who are on stage for 15 seconds between matches, is absurd in itself. To summarise, grow up and stop looking at women so much. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45157 Posts
On April 16 2012 22:38 HeeroFX wrote: I think its fine to add sex appeal its not like EG has a cheeleader squad on the side of the stage during an idra match? Although if they're thinking about having one, I'd be the first to sign up. On topic: I don't mind the female hosts being dressed *differently* than the male hosts, as long as it's the same caliber of professionalism. (And by that I mean that I don't want to see the women wearing the same robotic silver or turquoise ties as the men.) That means that if we see all the male hosts (which includes casters, in my opinion- really any famous personality that's helping to run the show on the big screen or main stage) wear suits and ties, I don't really expect to see the women in cocktail dresses. That's not to say that I often see that as the case, or that I'm surprised when sex appeal is flaunted, but I do think that the female hosts should look more mature than the generic Dr. Pepper girl. | ||
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LaSt)ChAnCe
United States2179 Posts
girls can wear what they want to wear - nobody is going to shy away from e-sports because we have fashionable ladies or sharp dressed men | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45157 Posts
On April 16 2012 23:13 Jinsho wrote: No, I don't agree. That is nonsense. First of all, as a man, you should not tell a woman what to wear. Women wear things that men might find weird, or strange, or too sexual, or not sexual, whatever. It's their choice as is yours, and they are competing amongst themselves with fancy dresses and whatever. You do not and would not understand. Second, you have no right to comment on what they should be wearing. That is an issue between her and the production team. Her clothing, very objectively, does not affect your viewing experience of the SC2 matches. Third, Kennigit's comments are just as stupid. Presenters have a foreground role and serve as eyecatchers. What works in Seoul does not work in Las Vegas. To say that the focus should be on the players who are on stage 99.99% of the time instead of the women who are on stage for 15 seconds between matches, is absurd in itself. To summarise, grow up and stop looking at women so much. 1. I don't think anyone from this thread is forcing their decisions on the women. We're just having a discussion over professionalism vs. sexuality. And, for the record, their bosses probably have a say in what they wear. And their bosses may be men (although I can't say for sure). 2. We absolutely do have a right to comment on such things, in the same way we have a right to comment on any other aspect of a tournament or environment. You can disagree with others' opinions, but as the community who is showing up to live events and watching online tournaments, receiving and acknowledging feedback and criticism is vital to the success of an organization. You have no right to tell us that we have no right to voice our opinions. It's just important for both sides to justify their opinions. 3. "Kennigit's comments are just as stupid." Not a very solid argument, in my opinion. I personally think that the winner of an important match, who's now getting a much-deserved interview, should be the focus of the stage, rather than the interviewer, but- again- that's my opinion (and the opinion of many others). | ||
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
However, i agree that it is out of place. Lots of (in many cases, exceptions exist) poorly and mostly black&white dressed nerds and then a woman in a glittering, red cocktail dress in the front. That just seems awkward. I'm not saying Anna or her colleagues should dress poorly but it's like work, you don't dress perfectly, you dress just one step above everyone else. | ||
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udgnim
United States8024 Posts
I think it hurts the presentation of their product because while I think someone like Rachel does a good job in that role due to her knowledge and experience in the industry, I think someone like Anna is more lacking and generally evokes too much of a pageantry, formal vibe that does not fit the sports portion of "eSports" | ||
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rasnj
United States1959 Posts
On April 16 2012 23:13 Jinsho wrote: No, I don't agree. That is nonsense. First of all, as a man, you should not tell a woman what to wear. Women wear things that men might find weird, or strange, or too sexual, or not sexual, whatever. It's their choice as is yours, and they are competing amongst themselves with fancy dresses and whatever. You do not and would not understand. Why does it matter if it is man-to-man, woman-to-woman, man-to-woman, or woman-to-man communication. Is it okay for me to suggest that Khaldor casts shirtless to increase sex appeal, or for me to suggest that tasteless and artosis should wear Hawaiian shirts to tone down the seriousness of their look? No one should be able to force some one else to not wear something, but people can comment on the appropriateness of it anyway. Second, you have no right to comment on what they should be wearing. That is an issue between her and the production team. Her clothing, very objectively, does not affect your viewing experience of the SC2 matches. The production, interviews, etc. are part of the show. We have no right to force them to do something, but we can comment and hope they listen if we provide useful constructive criticism. In the end if they make too many mistakes and don't improve, others who do improve and make less mistakes will overtake them. I rarely bothered listen to between match interviews partly because of how awkward they were (players and the interview itself) and how poorly constructed some of the questions were. Trying to induce informal banter and casual back-and-forth does not work well for pre- or post-match interviews, especially when interviewing someone with a bad grasp of the English language. If you showed interview footage from IPL to a normal person and asked if it was produced by ESPN they would clearly be able to catch on to the fact that this is not ESPN-level production. Third, Kennigit's comments are just as stupid. Presenters have a foreground role and serve as eyecatchers. What works in Seoul does not work in Las Vegas. To say that the focus should be on the players who are on stage 99.99% of the time instead of the women who are on stage for 15 seconds between matches, is absurd in itself. You need to cater to your audience, and the online audience is very important too. Arguably more important than the live audience. Even if it is normal dress in Las Vegas, the attire of progamers are not normal in Las Vegas so the stark contrast between the presenters and the players creates awkward tension. This may be okay in some circumstance like in a one-to-one conversation where you might want the opposing part to be a little uncomfortable, but for the purposes of a nice interview awkwardness like that is terrible. In some situations presenters serve as the center of attention and should stand out and attract attention, but in other circumstance they should lead discussion and bring out the best in others (specifically players in this case). When interviewing a player the attention should be directed to the INTERVIEWEE, not the interviewer. | ||
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neSix
United States1772 Posts
Is it hurting E-Sports? No. E-Sports will continue to grow regardless of whether or not the women wear cocktail dresses. I'd argue that the rate of growth will also be uninhibited. The on-stage interviews, awards ceremonies and things of that nature are awkward enough already. From a strictly personal preference perspective, I believe that if you wouldn't wear it to the office Monday morning, you probably shouldn't wear it to an event like this. But again, I think that's perhaps more deeply rooted in my own beliefs rather than a strict sense of "right" or "wrong". Having that said, I'd like to address a topic that is being discussed in the thread: the fact that the dresses are the womens' choice. And while I'd be remiss to not acknowledge the fact that the beautiful women of IPL do indeed consciously elect to wear their dresses to the events, I do believe they should be held to the same standards as the men. That is to say that the producers should be able to define what is appropriate and what is not. To draw a facetious example, I'm pretty certain that the producers would ask Artosis to change his outfit if he showed up wearing something like this: ![[image loading]](http://style.mtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/chris-brown-red-jacket-no-shirt-full-body.jpg) TLDR; The choice of apparel is not hurting E-Sports and decisions regarding what is appropriate are probably rooted pretty deeply in personal preference. Television has set a precedent about what types of clothing are traditionally acceptable in this type of setting (vaguely categorized as "business casual"), and it should be up to the producers to enforce this standard for both the men and women of their production. | ||
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deathly rat
United Kingdom911 Posts
On April 16 2012 23:32 udgnim wrote: the attire does not really bother me, but the thing I don't really like is that IPL is trying to push the sex appeal by using female hosts/presenters I think it hurts the presentation of their product because while I think someone like Rachel does a good job in that role due to her knowledge and experience in the industry, I think someone like Anna is more lacking and generally evokes too much of a pageantry, formal vibe that does not fit the sports portion of "eSports" I think that is an unfair assessment of Anna's capabilities. She's as articulate and interesting as anyone in the Starcraft 2 scene, and I'm sure she could do a lot of things with her time if she wasn't interested and involved in it. | ||
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matiK23
United States963 Posts
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
On April 17 2012 00:14 matiK23 wrote: came in here expecting a tumblr of hot esports chicks in dresses, left the blog disappoint I also left disappointed. :/ | ||
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felisconcolori
United States6168 Posts
On April 16 2012 22:32 feanor1 wrote: Players in a team jersey and a decent pair of pants are fine. It is better if they have the full uniform with pants, but still not completely necessary. Players are there to represent their sponsors, to do that they need to be wearing the team jersey. I don't think this is really what he means. (Although, you have to note that a number of players don't generally dress very well depending on the uniform - and the uniforms themselves are on the distinctly casual side. But some look very sharp, still.) I think what he is pointing at is the players' ability to interact with the hosts/interviewers. Look at, for example, a Tom Brady or David Beckham - if they are being interviewed, do they just stand there and give short answers? Even when they are being complete idiots, they are at least trying to have a conversation. Most pro players seem to be shy, or impatient, and just want to get it over. People interviewing sports figures often do not have a depth of knowledge on the sport in question - but they don't have to, because they can ask simple questions and follow them up based on the answers. That... doesn't really happen a lot in any SC2 event. I think people are focusing on the clothes aspect as why things are "awkward" but that's a red herring. The clothes don't matter as much as the players not being able or willing to meet some interviewers halfway. (It may be a translation issue, when it comes to Koreans - Smix (<3) translating really made those interviews 'live' for me.) Being a pro is mostly about being bad-ass in a game, but there's a reason why Tim Tebow is a name most people know even though he's not a really great QB - he's also very personable. + Show Spoiler + I'm in Florida, so if I never post again - someone found out I didn't acknowledge Tim Tebow as the Second Coming, and they have punished me for it. Warn others. It's part of why MC and inControl are the names they are, despite one having a down few months and the other one (sorry, man) having a down year or two. Players obviously must be great players, but if you want to get people that don't know about StarCraft interested, you need them to have a reason to care about the players - which is tough if the players aren't interested really in talking to them. (Or in talking to them engagingly - for example "Fuck Fionn!" from Huk.) When you're watching a sports interview, do you even notice what the interviewer is wearing? Not if the interviewer and the person getting interviewed are both engaging. (Within reason... which everything seemed to be at IPL4.) | ||
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slytown
Korea (South)1411 Posts
The girls and guys looked great. I would ask the girls who attended the event if they were focused on any of the hot guys on stage? Attraction is gonna be a topic whenever a human being is under a light. Take a look at the BW scene and all the fangirls. Much of the BW culture is about how cute Bisu, or Jaedong, or Xellos are, but there are still great games so I don't mind the gossipy sideshow. | ||
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Joefish
Germany314 Posts
On April 16 2012 17:22 Azzur wrote: This blog is hilarious... The first thing that came into my mind is race girls: ![[image loading]](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_pDK95H0p43g/Sb0XyKb7w0I/AAAAAAAACKk/CBfJNnOUXc0/s400/KoreanRaceGirls_22.jpg) They are "RUINING M-SPORTS" (m-sports = motorsports). Most confusing pic I have seen in a while. A girl with three arms and a dislocated hip. I mean fetishes are fine with me but come on.. On topic: "Hot Chicks in Dresses" is not what it should be about I think. Rather about female commentators trying to be more than the cute girl or the hot chick in the dress in a mainly men dominated genre. Also being a representing voice for the female community in SC2. On the other hand it's always about the booth girls / random hot chicks or whatever other cute/sexy person at the tourneys. Sex sells. It's that easy. But I hope that's not the beginning of girls dancing on poles between games. I'm watching esports to watch good games and enjoy good commentators. Not half naked girls trying to convince me that sennheiser headphones are the best or I definitely need HD stream pass. At the recent events the female commentators were dressed fine in my eyes (sounds strange discussing dress codes :D). Although Anna's dress was a bit too glittering in my eyes and kinda didn't fit for the occasion. But that's maybe only me. | ||
Adebisi
Canada1637 Posts
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milikan
United States67 Posts
On April 16 2012 23:38 neSix wrote: Having that said, I'd like to address a topic that is being discussed in the thread: the fact that the dresses are the womens' choice. And while I'd be remiss to not acknowledge the fact that the beautiful women of IPL do indeed consciously elect to wear their dresses to the events, I do believe they should be held to the same standards as the men. That is to say that the producers should be able to define what is appropriate and what is not. To me, the definition of sexist is treating someone differently based on their sex; that's why I threw in that word. In retrospect, it was a dumb thing to do, since that word elicts a very strong response in a lot of people. On April 16 2012 23:32 udgnim wrote: the attire does not really bother me, but the thing I don't really like is that IPL is trying to push the sex appeal by using female hosts/presenters I think it hurts the presentation of their product because while I think someone like Rachel does a good job in that role due to her knowledge and experience in the industry, I think someone like Anna is more lacking and generally evokes too much of a pageantry, formal vibe that does not fit the sports portion of "eSports" Now, not allowing females to host/present would be straight up sexism, with an easy solution being professional dress attire imo. I completely agree with the second part about hurting the production with a lack of knowledge thoguh. I know this isn't the first time someone has complained or whined about this, but I think that the pain comes in extra strong when you have the interviewers not looking super professional too. This topic was kinda hard for me to write on. It's more than just what the female hosts wore; there's a fundamental disconnect when you have ladies dolled and dressed up in a room full filled of men in professional attire. Throw in some progamer in-person awkwardness and ladies and gentlemen, you have a stage full of curious and wierd interactions to break down! To all the people saying that it's sexist to tell someone how to dress, I have two words for you: "dress code". I don't know why you haven't encountered this phrase already, but this is something almost universally used to tell people what to wear. | ||
Waxangel
United States33501 Posts
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
To all the people saying that it's sexist to tell someone how to dress, I have two words for you: "dress code". I don't know why you haven't encountered this phrase already, but this is something almost universally used to tell people what to wear. Making dress codes is fine, but that isn't the case here. It is exclusively men telling women how they must dress, and if they don't like using the word must, they replace it with should. "You really should dress more modestly. You don't have to, but you really should." So don't bring up dress code. Nobody is talking about dress codes. Everyone is talking about how women must dress. And if these women don't dress to their standards, they consider it their right to call them anything from sluts to whores. The reverse doesn't seem to be happening. So, once again, don't bring up dress codes. This is about men telling women how they should dress in order to avoid insult or ridicule. | ||
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AnachronisticAnarchy
United States2957 Posts
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