• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:06
CEST 17:06
KST 00:06
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting2[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent6Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO35.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)66Weekly Cups (Sept 29-Oct 5): MaxPax triples up3PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition315.0.15 Balance Patch Notes (Live version)119
StarCraft 2
General
IP For new Brazil servers for NA Players Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO 5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8) TL.net Map Contest #21 - Finalists PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition
Tourneys
WardiTV Mondays SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers Mutation # 492 Get Out More
Brood War
General
[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent I'm making videos again Any rep analyzer that shows resources situation? Whose hotkey signature is this? BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL20] Semifinal B [ASL20] Semifinal A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Ro8 Day 4
Strategy
Current Meta BW - ajfirecracker Strategy & Training Siegecraft - a new perspective TvZ Theorycraft - Improving on State of the Art
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread ZeroSpace Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640} TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI Stop the Construction YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Inbreeding: Why Do We Do It…
Peanutsc
From Tilt to Ragequit:The Ps…
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2690 users

SPL FINALS - Page 4

Blogs > BLinD-RawR
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 All
PH
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States6173 Posts
April 09 2012 00:06 GMT
#61
On April 09 2012 01:41 storkfan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2012 00:49 fire_brand wrote:
On April 08 2012 23:49 nttea wrote:
Flash can't be too proud about that, killing cybernetics core but not switching to vultures to counter mass zealot? or did i miss something


I'm as confused as you man.

Show nested quote +
On April 08 2012 23:55 Mazer wrote:
On April 08 2012 23:49 nttea wrote:
Flash can't be too proud about that, killing cybernetics core but not switching to vultures to counter mass zealot? or did i miss something


That's pretty much it but I think Bisu's constant harass/manner pylon/gas steal really messed up Flash's head.

UNREAL FINISH THOUGH.

he didnt have vult upgrades. and his build was tailored around gas heavy 3 fact tank + mnm. going vults wouldve meant no minerals left for mnm and aggregate army size wouldve been smaller.

He was going MnM on two rax. He was only looking to deal some immediate damage, which he dearly needed to do. He should have transitioned out of that more cleanly.
Hello
storkfan
Profile Joined March 2012
493 Posts
April 09 2012 09:00 GMT
#62
On April 09 2012 07:45 Mazer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2012 01:41 storkfan wrote:
On April 09 2012 00:49 fire_brand wrote:
On April 08 2012 23:49 nttea wrote:
Flash can't be too proud about that, killing cybernetics core but not switching to vultures to counter mass zealot? or did i miss something


I'm as confused as you man.

On April 08 2012 23:55 Mazer wrote:
On April 08 2012 23:49 nttea wrote:
Flash can't be too proud about that, killing cybernetics core but not switching to vultures to counter mass zealot? or did i miss something


That's pretty much it but I think Bisu's constant harass/manner pylon/gas steal really messed up Flash's head.

UNREAL FINISH THOUGH.

he didnt have vult upgrades. and his build was tailored around gas heavy 3 fact tank + mnm. going vults wouldve meant no minerals left for mnm and aggregate army size wouldve been smaller.


Taking my Reddit post to explain the reasoning:

Here's the VOD:

1) 12:30, we see 3 factories with machine shops. Blobs on the mini-map suggest he had the third factory up even sooner (sans shop)
2) 13:00, Flash starts the push to the back. Shuttle/reaver is revealed shortly after and making more MM would be a mistake.
3) By 15:00, the core is down. Obviously it will be rebuilt but one can assume Bisu would do at least one round of zealots since his income was still pretty high as he transferred his probes and couldn't do goons
4) 16:30, more tanks pushing to the back, core halfway built. Bisu starts a counter with ~10 zealots and keeps reinforcing to win it. Bunker, SCVs and 6 tanks don't hold. His tanks in the open get picked off by zealots too.

I'm not saying it would have been easy but somewhere in those 3 minutes or so, he should have made the adjustment. Maybe he felt he was all in with the push and just couldn't take the resources to research spider mines and complete a better wall at the front (could have moved his two raxes for this)... But ultimately that is how he lost.
ok wall yes that couldve made things better, but economically
he was all in. zerg style allin - all his income went to unit production and the routine of unit production had to be static to match his income mineral and gas spread. vults instead of tanks wouldve decreased aggregate number of units produced due to his gas heavy income spread.
storkfan
Profile Joined March 2012
493 Posts
April 09 2012 09:05 GMT
#63
On April 09 2012 18:00 storkfan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2012 07:45 Mazer wrote:
On April 09 2012 01:41 storkfan wrote:
On April 09 2012 00:49 fire_brand wrote:
On April 08 2012 23:49 nttea wrote:
Flash can't be too proud about that, killing cybernetics core but not switching to vultures to counter mass zealot? or did i miss something


I'm as confused as you man.

On April 08 2012 23:55 Mazer wrote:
On April 08 2012 23:49 nttea wrote:
Flash can't be too proud about that, killing cybernetics core but not switching to vultures to counter mass zealot? or did i miss something


That's pretty much it but I think Bisu's constant harass/manner pylon/gas steal really messed up Flash's head.

UNREAL FINISH THOUGH.

he didnt have vult upgrades. and his build was tailored around gas heavy 3 fact tank + mnm. going vults wouldve meant no minerals left for mnm and aggregate army size wouldve been smaller.


Taking my Reddit post to explain the reasoning:

Here's the VOD:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNrlTHtF0BY&feature=plcp&context=C46382a4VDvjVQa1PpcFNSdQHDiy3G5KcKkY6BhpuVxMcz80F9YE4=
1) 12:30, we see 3 factories with machine shops. Blobs on the mini-map suggest he had the third factory up even sooner (sans shop)
2) 13:00, Flash starts the push to the back. Shuttle/reaver is revealed shortly after and making more MM would be a mistake.
3) By 15:00, the core is down. Obviously it will be rebuilt but one can assume Bisu would do at least one round of zealots since his income was still pretty high as he transferred his probes and couldn't do goons
4) 16:30, more tanks pushing to the back, core halfway built. Bisu starts a counter with ~10 zealots and keeps reinforcing to win it. Bunker, SCVs and 6 tanks don't hold. His tanks in the open get picked off by zealots too.

I'm not saying it would have been easy but somewhere in those 3 minutes or so, he should have made the adjustment. Maybe he felt he was all in with the push and just couldn't take the resources to research spider mines and complete a better wall at the front (could have moved his two raxes for this)... But ultimately that is how he lost.
ok wall yes that couldve made things better, but economically
he was all in. zerg style allin - all his income went to unit production and the routine of unit production had to be static to match his income mineral and gas spread. vults instead of tanks wouldve decreased aggregate number of units produced due to his gas heavy income spread.

On April 09 2012 09:06 PH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2012 01:41 storkfan wrote:
On April 09 2012 00:49 fire_brand wrote:
On April 08 2012 23:49 nttea wrote:
Flash can't be too proud about that, killing cybernetics core but not switching to vultures to counter mass zealot? or did i miss something


I'm as confused as you man.

On April 08 2012 23:55 Mazer wrote:
On April 08 2012 23:49 nttea wrote:
Flash can't be too proud about that, killing cybernetics core but not switching to vultures to counter mass zealot? or did i miss something


That's pretty much it but I think Bisu's constant harass/manner pylon/gas steal really messed up Flash's head.

UNREAL FINISH THOUGH.

he didnt have vult upgrades. and his build was tailored around gas heavy 3 fact tank + mnm. going vults wouldve meant no minerals left for mnm and aggregate army size wouldve been smaller.

He was going MnM on two rax. He was only looking to deal some immediate damage, which he dearly needed to do. He should have transitioned out of that more cleanly.
economically, he wasnt looking to jus deal immediate damage. he stopped his scv production a long time before and could have only afforded to produce more scvs if he was to keep some of his production buildings idle. this is typical of a timing intend to finish the game, right then and there, not to transition out of. he would be far behind due to low scv count if he was to stop it.
Prev 1 2 3 4 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 54m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Harstem 648
SteadfastSC 124
mouzHeroMarine 86
ProTech79
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 40718
Calm 8338
Sea 5754
Hyuk 4202
Rain 3542
Horang2 1471
GuemChi 1259
PianO 1223
Shuttle 1027
firebathero 907
[ Show more ]
EffOrt 584
Light 486
Mini 451
Hyun 314
actioN 229
Larva 204
Soulkey 133
Mind 100
Backho 81
Mong 60
Sea.KH 50
JYJ46
Rush 46
Movie 44
soO 37
sas.Sziky 34
Aegong 28
ToSsGirL 28
scan(afreeca) 26
ivOry 25
Sacsri 22
Rock 21
Yoon 18
Terrorterran 17
Shine 16
HiyA 15
Dewaltoss 9
Hm[arnc] 8
Noble 7
Dota 2
Gorgc6093
qojqva4036
420jenkins450
syndereN378
XcaliburYe242
League of Legends
KnowMe48
Counter-Strike
markeloff115
Other Games
singsing2567
hiko871
B2W.Neo450
Lowko366
crisheroes360
ceh9235
byalli231
Hui .187
Liquid`VortiX150
Fuzer 140
ArmadaUGS67
oskar65
rGuardiaN54
Trikslyr16
FunKaTv 3
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• poizon28 34
• StrangeGG 18
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 17
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3274
League of Legends
• Jankos2409
Other Games
• Shiphtur175
Upcoming Events
Monday Night Weeklies
54m
Replay Cast
8h 54m
Afreeca Starleague
18h 54m
Soma vs Bisu
OSC
22h 54m
OSC
1d 2h
MaxPax vs Gerald
Solar vs Krystianer
PAPI vs Lemon
Ryung vs Moja
Nice vs NightPhoenix
Cham vs TBD
MaNa vs TriGGeR
PiGosaur Monday
1d 8h
The PondCast
2 days
OSC
2 days
Wardi Open
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
[ Show More ]
Safe House 2
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Safe House 2
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS2
WardiTV TLMC #15
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
EC S1
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Offline Finals
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.