• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 14:49
CET 20:49
KST 04:49
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets3$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)15Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1825
StarCraft 2
General
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets When will we find out if there are more tournament SC2 Spotted on the EWC 2026 list? Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC2 AI Tournament 2026 $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced WardiTV Winter Cup
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates BW General Discussion A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone Potential ASL qualifier breakthroughs?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 SLON Grand Finals – Season 2
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Mechabellum Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Physical Exercise (HIIT) Bef…
TrAiDoS
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2315 users

SPL FINALS - Page 4

Blogs > BLinD-RawR
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 All
PH
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States6173 Posts
April 09 2012 00:06 GMT
#61
On April 09 2012 01:41 storkfan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2012 00:49 fire_brand wrote:
On April 08 2012 23:49 nttea wrote:
Flash can't be too proud about that, killing cybernetics core but not switching to vultures to counter mass zealot? or did i miss something


I'm as confused as you man.

Show nested quote +
On April 08 2012 23:55 Mazer wrote:
On April 08 2012 23:49 nttea wrote:
Flash can't be too proud about that, killing cybernetics core but not switching to vultures to counter mass zealot? or did i miss something


That's pretty much it but I think Bisu's constant harass/manner pylon/gas steal really messed up Flash's head.

UNREAL FINISH THOUGH.

he didnt have vult upgrades. and his build was tailored around gas heavy 3 fact tank + mnm. going vults wouldve meant no minerals left for mnm and aggregate army size wouldve been smaller.

He was going MnM on two rax. He was only looking to deal some immediate damage, which he dearly needed to do. He should have transitioned out of that more cleanly.
Hello
storkfan
Profile Joined March 2012
493 Posts
April 09 2012 09:00 GMT
#62
On April 09 2012 07:45 Mazer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2012 01:41 storkfan wrote:
On April 09 2012 00:49 fire_brand wrote:
On April 08 2012 23:49 nttea wrote:
Flash can't be too proud about that, killing cybernetics core but not switching to vultures to counter mass zealot? or did i miss something


I'm as confused as you man.

On April 08 2012 23:55 Mazer wrote:
On April 08 2012 23:49 nttea wrote:
Flash can't be too proud about that, killing cybernetics core but not switching to vultures to counter mass zealot? or did i miss something


That's pretty much it but I think Bisu's constant harass/manner pylon/gas steal really messed up Flash's head.

UNREAL FINISH THOUGH.

he didnt have vult upgrades. and his build was tailored around gas heavy 3 fact tank + mnm. going vults wouldve meant no minerals left for mnm and aggregate army size wouldve been smaller.


Taking my Reddit post to explain the reasoning:

Here's the VOD:

1) 12:30, we see 3 factories with machine shops. Blobs on the mini-map suggest he had the third factory up even sooner (sans shop)
2) 13:00, Flash starts the push to the back. Shuttle/reaver is revealed shortly after and making more MM would be a mistake.
3) By 15:00, the core is down. Obviously it will be rebuilt but one can assume Bisu would do at least one round of zealots since his income was still pretty high as he transferred his probes and couldn't do goons
4) 16:30, more tanks pushing to the back, core halfway built. Bisu starts a counter with ~10 zealots and keeps reinforcing to win it. Bunker, SCVs and 6 tanks don't hold. His tanks in the open get picked off by zealots too.

I'm not saying it would have been easy but somewhere in those 3 minutes or so, he should have made the adjustment. Maybe he felt he was all in with the push and just couldn't take the resources to research spider mines and complete a better wall at the front (could have moved his two raxes for this)... But ultimately that is how he lost.
ok wall yes that couldve made things better, but economically
he was all in. zerg style allin - all his income went to unit production and the routine of unit production had to be static to match his income mineral and gas spread. vults instead of tanks wouldve decreased aggregate number of units produced due to his gas heavy income spread.
storkfan
Profile Joined March 2012
493 Posts
April 09 2012 09:05 GMT
#63
On April 09 2012 18:00 storkfan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2012 07:45 Mazer wrote:
On April 09 2012 01:41 storkfan wrote:
On April 09 2012 00:49 fire_brand wrote:
On April 08 2012 23:49 nttea wrote:
Flash can't be too proud about that, killing cybernetics core but not switching to vultures to counter mass zealot? or did i miss something


I'm as confused as you man.

On April 08 2012 23:55 Mazer wrote:
On April 08 2012 23:49 nttea wrote:
Flash can't be too proud about that, killing cybernetics core but not switching to vultures to counter mass zealot? or did i miss something


That's pretty much it but I think Bisu's constant harass/manner pylon/gas steal really messed up Flash's head.

UNREAL FINISH THOUGH.

he didnt have vult upgrades. and his build was tailored around gas heavy 3 fact tank + mnm. going vults wouldve meant no minerals left for mnm and aggregate army size wouldve been smaller.


Taking my Reddit post to explain the reasoning:

Here's the VOD:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNrlTHtF0BY&feature=plcp&context=C46382a4VDvjVQa1PpcFNSdQHDiy3G5KcKkY6BhpuVxMcz80F9YE4=
1) 12:30, we see 3 factories with machine shops. Blobs on the mini-map suggest he had the third factory up even sooner (sans shop)
2) 13:00, Flash starts the push to the back. Shuttle/reaver is revealed shortly after and making more MM would be a mistake.
3) By 15:00, the core is down. Obviously it will be rebuilt but one can assume Bisu would do at least one round of zealots since his income was still pretty high as he transferred his probes and couldn't do goons
4) 16:30, more tanks pushing to the back, core halfway built. Bisu starts a counter with ~10 zealots and keeps reinforcing to win it. Bunker, SCVs and 6 tanks don't hold. His tanks in the open get picked off by zealots too.

I'm not saying it would have been easy but somewhere in those 3 minutes or so, he should have made the adjustment. Maybe he felt he was all in with the push and just couldn't take the resources to research spider mines and complete a better wall at the front (could have moved his two raxes for this)... But ultimately that is how he lost.
ok wall yes that couldve made things better, but economically
he was all in. zerg style allin - all his income went to unit production and the routine of unit production had to be static to match his income mineral and gas spread. vults instead of tanks wouldve decreased aggregate number of units produced due to his gas heavy income spread.

On April 09 2012 09:06 PH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2012 01:41 storkfan wrote:
On April 09 2012 00:49 fire_brand wrote:
On April 08 2012 23:49 nttea wrote:
Flash can't be too proud about that, killing cybernetics core but not switching to vultures to counter mass zealot? or did i miss something


I'm as confused as you man.

On April 08 2012 23:55 Mazer wrote:
On April 08 2012 23:49 nttea wrote:
Flash can't be too proud about that, killing cybernetics core but not switching to vultures to counter mass zealot? or did i miss something


That's pretty much it but I think Bisu's constant harass/manner pylon/gas steal really messed up Flash's head.

UNREAL FINISH THOUGH.

he didnt have vult upgrades. and his build was tailored around gas heavy 3 fact tank + mnm. going vults wouldve meant no minerals left for mnm and aggregate army size wouldve been smaller.

He was going MnM on two rax. He was only looking to deal some immediate damage, which he dearly needed to do. He should have transitioned out of that more cleanly.
economically, he wasnt looking to jus deal immediate damage. he stopped his scv production a long time before and could have only afforded to produce more scvs if he was to keep some of his production buildings idle. this is typical of a timing intend to finish the game, right then and there, not to transition out of. he would be far behind due to low scv count if he was to stop it.
Prev 1 2 3 4 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 14h 12m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
UpATreeSC 246
IndyStarCraft 150
TKL 142
JuggernautJason119
Railgan 21
trigger 19
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 580
Dewaltoss 148
910 30
Bale 8
Noble 5
Dota 2
LuMiX0
League of Legends
C9.Mang0147
Counter-Strike
fl0m3531
pashabiceps1429
Foxcn389
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu425
Other Games
Liquid`RaSZi2162
FrodaN1496
Beastyqt962
B2W.Neo476
Harstem411
DeMusliM264
ArmadaUGS252
mouzStarbuck239
ToD137
QueenE95
Mew2King48
KnowMe41
OptimusSC24
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1836
BasetradeTV19
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 32
• FirePhoenix15
• 80smullet 11
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota2401
• lizZardDota260
League of Legends
• TFBlade823
• Shiphtur566
Other Games
• imaqtpie1372
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
14h 12m
OSC
16h 12m
Jumy vs sebesdes
Nicoract vs GgMaChine
ReBellioN vs MaNa
Lemon vs TriGGeR
Gerald vs Cure
Creator vs SHIN
OSC
1d 16h
All Star Teams
2 days
INnoVation vs soO
Serral vs herO
Cure vs Solar
sOs vs Scarlett
Classic vs Clem
Reynor vs Maru
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
All Star Teams
3 days
MMA vs DongRaeGu
Rogue vs Oliveira
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
OSC
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-13
Big Gabe Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W4
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
SC2 All-Star Inv. 2025
Nations Cup 2026
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.