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I have been together with my girlfriend for around 5 months and we get along amazingly spending most of our time together that we are able to and are in love completely. However something that bothers me is her stubbornness in political and ideological issues. Her mother is one of those prolific conspiracy theorists who post on news sites attempting to uncover elaborate government conspiracies that the "lefties" are trying to push upon us. Luckily she is not like this at all, however whenever our talks go into politics I find that it is hard for us to compromise, we are both people who are strong in our convictions and I tend to favor logic and data far more than her reasoning of morals. Also I tend to not side with one party or another as far as US politics as I prefer international issues and believe that both sides don't offer too much to desire.
For example the debate of legalizing drugs, this topic was brought up through us discussing and English assignment in which we had to act like a parent and respond to various situations. One of the situations was how you would respond to your child wanting to experiment with drugs. My position was one that I wouldn't be actively supportive of allowing my child to do so, and would warn him of the risks and discourage him from so but I wouldn't chastise him, just attempt to educate him.
Let me preface this by stating that in my personal life I will never experiment with any drugs regardless of potency or effect besides the occasional partaking of alcohol, but even then never with the intent to become fully intoxicated. This is mostly because I am comfortable and content with the way I feel and see no need to endanger my health or spend money on altering my being. However my position is that I have no problem with drug use by other people as long as they are aware of the dangers and precautions. (Such as using a clean needle etc.) I argue that it is not drug use itself that propagates violence, but merely the trafficking and procurement of drugs based upon the illegal status of said drugs.
Our "War on Drugs" is no doubt misguided as evidence shows our jails are overcrowded because we have 5 percent of the worlds population, yet 25 percent of the worlds prisoners and most are held on drug related crimes. The decriminalization of drugs has proven to be effective in countries such as Portugal. ( http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal) By focusing on being more open with drugs and allowing for safer distribution and regulation the amount of drug users declines as the rush from illegality is shattered and there is an easier way to focus on treating the addicts to recover and live a better life rather than sending them to sit in jail wasting our tax dollars.
![[image loading]](http://reflow.scribd.com/9f5eq39fcwamt9x/images/image-9.jpg)
Omg pretty picture ^_^ detailing the effects of decriminalization of drugs in Portugal
By ridding ourselves of the taboo over drugs we can focus our efforts on regulating these substances and eliminate most of the violence caused by the trafficking of drugs and possibly as an effect decrease crime and even discourage drug use by having more open discussion, removing the illegal rush and offering rehabilitating support. http://articles.cnn.com/2009-03-24/politics/miron.legalization.drugs_1_prohibition-drug-traffickers-violence?_s=PM:POLITICS
After explaining all of this to her she just tells me "I hate drugs" she refuses to back up her arguments only saying that drugs are wrong and should not be allowed. Personally I don't believe drug use should be so heavily criminalized as it only serves to amplify the problems that drugs bring and puts any hope of help out of reach.
I would be interested to hear how teamliquid views the "drug problem" and their experiences/opinions on drug use/legalization. Originally this was going to asking if I should insist on my views and use evidence or just leave the topic alone, but I can already see that changing someones mind who is already so set upon their view is not possible and trying to do so will only fuel their discontent. I can live without having my girlfriend share my exact views.
Also interesting views from the opposing side http://www.justice.gov/dea/demand/speakout/06so.htm
TLDR/questions to consider:
What is your opinion on drug use?
What is the major problem about drugs?
Should drugs become legalized, If so why?
PS This is my first time trying to write a discussion blog and attempting to convey my thoughts in this manner feedback would be appreciated feel free to criticize wherever you feel necessary I don't mind.
-Abstract
Edit: poll removed too much variance on the topic would be easier to see written opinion also lol why do we have this rating system if the only people who ever care about rating a blog are the people who disagree with it ^_^ I accept all opposing opinions and am not afraid to concede to your points if they are valid and will respect your opinion don't need to be underhanded about it.
  
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Hers sounds like a typically uneducated opinion and that's the end of it. I hold the same views as you, with the exception of drinking to excess on occasion because getting drunk is the bees knees :D
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thought it would be a girl blog, turned into drug debate. sad panda.
opinion on drug use - shouldnt use them unless doctors tell you to use them. even non-prescription drugs, and especially illegal drugs.
major problem - addiction, side effects.
legalization - your question is overly broad. no, they should not be legalized in general. there may be some arguments for specific drugs if medical uses are identified (e.g., marijuana), but doctor involvement should still be required.
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People who " just hate drugs" are on the same level as religious people who "just hate gays" or racist groups who "just hate blacks", IMO. There's no reason to hate something that doesn't effect you at all. Each individual has their own choice of how to live, and that's that... The law should really back off, because a) We don't need the police to be our lifestyle nannies and b) Because making things illegal creates a black market where criminals profit.
I live in Canada and although marijuana is "illegal" here, pretty much everyone is cool with it/uses it, all age groups. Surely it will be decriminalized soon.
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sometimes you gotta accept your girl is an idiot
no harm done
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Eating paint will fuck you up, but we don't ban the eating of paint. Thats my opinion on drugs.
The major problem with drugs is it's association with crime, and ultimately under our system how they go hand in hand.
They should be legalized, and we should take all of the wasted money on "the War on Drugs" and spend it on awareness/recovery programs. Eventually, the fads will die out/lessen.
Sucks about your girl though. Maybe try and have her talk to people that do weed or something, to show it's not all that awful?
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I think you'd make an excellent parent, AbstractVoid. I'm basically a clone of you ideologically. I don't do drugs or drink alcohol much (well, i tried pot once but that's besides the point.) Yet i don't condemn them. I think it's importaant to allow other people's freedoms despite our personal beliefs but at the same time provide awareness for the dangers such choices would lead to.
I think the major problem with drugs is the stigma behind them. Look at alcohol and cigarettes. Those are drugs as well, yet they're accepted by society. However, does this help remove the dangers? No. Alcohol, whether legal or not, is going to lead to people doing stupid shit. It is a great example of a drug that needs to be more highly regulated in my opinion. For example, No one buys 120 proof Vodka with any other intent other than to get completely plastered. Likewise, no one buys magic carpet for any other intent than to get severely fucked up.
Cigarettes and marijuana, however, are more recreational drugs with less immediate harmful side-effects. Sure the threat of lung or throat cancer is always there, but no one is going to rob or assault you for their Cig money (bar the person who would have robbed you elsewise). No one, while high on mary jane, is going to rape one of his friends or run out onto the middle of the street butt naked screaming their head off about bats. (true story, cocaine is a hellavuh drug).
Should drugs become legalized? They already are. After minor surgery last month, I lay in bed all day high as a fuckin unicorn from painkillers. Last weekend I drove my inebriated roommates home. Should all drugs be legalized though? Fuck no. Should we be informed about the effects of drugs, and allow the minor and less harmful ones to be legally sold for those that choose to use them despite their harmful effects? Sure. People got to get their kicks somehow, and I'd rather know about my kids smoking a joint in their friends backyard than they sneak off to a drug-dealer's home to do so.
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I think you should both get high and THEN have this conversation; it will go much better.
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On March 08 2012 10:10 darkscream wrote:
People who " just hate drugs" are on the same level as religious people who "just hate gays" or racist groups who "just hate blacks", IMO. There's no reason to hate something that doesn't effect you at all. Each individual has their own choice of how to live, and that's that... The law should really back off, because a) We don't need the police to be our lifestyle nannies and b) Because making things illegal creates a black market where criminals profit.
I live in Canada and although marijuana is "illegal" here, pretty much everyone is cool with it/uses it, all age groups. Surely it will be decriminalized soon.
Well yeah any group of people who are willing to be ignorant and unwilling to look at facts and reconsider their position based on actual fact are not people you want to deal with. I do agree with your statement that law should be more limited and allow more freedom for people why restrict marijuana but not tobacco or alcohol? Doesn't make sense why you should be selective with it oh yeah wait the government just wants to get money. And finally yes illegality provides the opportunity for a prohibition style complex where nobody wins and violence is prevalent.
On March 08 2012 10:11 FFGenerations wrote:
sometimes you gotta accept your girl is an idiot
no harm done
Meh that seems like an unfair statement she is intelligent just seems like most people are willing to take their parents views as their own without regard for their own views or any possible facts which is disappointing to me but not the end of the world it doesn't make people dumb if they believe in religion even if I personally don't support religion at all.
On March 08 2012 10:09 dAPhREAk wrote:
thought it would be a girl blog, turned into drug debate. sad panda.
opinion on drug use - shouldnt use them unless doctors tell you to use them. even non-prescription drugs, and especially illegal drugs.
major problem - addiction, side effects.
legalization - your question is overly broad. no, they should not be legalized in general. there may be some arguments for specific drugs if medical uses are identified (e.g., marijuana), but doctor involvement should still be required.
Sorry for the disappointment I was going to focus on the girl issue but it got dwarfed by the whole ideological debate. What is your argument to counter the fact that tobacco and alcohol and even caffeine are legalized but marijuana is not? Where is the proof that those drugs are any less harmful than marijuana (there is no proof) why does it make sense to be selective? Why do we have to baby our citizens? Shouldn't they be able to make their own choices on what they put into their bodies? Why is it our concern as long as they are responsible and don't endanger others?
On March 08 2012 10:23 sam!zdat wrote:
I think you should both get high and THEN have this conversation; it will go much better.
Not a possibility I'm not a drug user myself and never will be.
On March 08 2012 10:23 Fishgle wrote:
I think you'd make an excellent parent, AbstractVoid. I'm basically a clone of you ideologically. I don't do drugs or drink alcohol much (well, i tried pot once but that's besides the point.) Yet i don't condemn them. I think it's importaant to allow other people's freedoms despite our personal beliefs but at the same time provide awareness for the dangers such choices would lead to.
I think the major problem with drugs is the stigma behind them. Look at alcohol and cigarettes. Those are drugs as well, yet they're accepted by society. However, does this help remove the dangers? No. Alcohol, whether legal or not, is going to lead to people doing stupid shit. It is a great example of a drug that needs to be more highly regulated in my opinion. For example, No one buys 120 proof Vodka with any other intent other than to get completely plastered. Likewise, no one buys magic carpet for any other intent than to get severely fucked up.
Cigarettes and marijuana, however, are more recreational drugs with less immediate harmful side-effects. Sure the threat of lung or throat cancer is always there, but no one is going to rob or assault you for their Cig money (bar the person who would have robbed you elsewise). No one, while high on mary jane, is going to rape one of his friends or run out onto the middle of the street butt naked screaming their head off about bats. (true story, cocaine is a hellavuh drug).
Should drugs become legalized? They already are. After minor surgery last month, I lay in bed all day high as a fuckin unicorn from painkillers. Last weekend I drove my inebriated roommates home. Should all drugs be legalized though? Fuck no. Should we be informed about the effects of drugs, and allow the minor and less harmful ones to be legally sold for those that choose to use them despite their harmful effects? Sure. People got to get their kicks somehow, and I'd rather know about my kids smoking a joint in their friends backyard than they sneak off to a drug-dealer's home to do so.
First thanks ^_^ I appreciate the people who can take rational fact and base their decisions off of that rather than the Bible or their families ideals. Freedom is a very important aspect of our society (at least we pretend it to be) and yes certain drugs should not be accepted while others aren't it sets a bad precedent.
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On March 08 2012 10:23 AbstractVoid wrote:
Not a possibility I'm not a drug user myself and never will be.
I thought that too when I was your age.
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On March 08 2012 10:26 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 10:23 AbstractVoid wrote:
Not a possibility I'm not a drug user myself and never will be.
I thought that too when I was your age.
Lol ^_^ Yeah well I have considered it and wouldn't really mind trying it to be honest, I know most of my friends have or still do but it just doesn't interest me enough to do so. I like being in control of my own bodily functions I suppose lol ;o
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Don't ever do anything until you've thought seriously about what it is and why you're doing it.
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On March 08 2012 10:28 sam!zdat wrote:
Don't ever do anything until you've thought seriously about what it is and why you're doing it.
And only with friends. I'm have slight depression sometimes, but depressants (such as alcohol) make me completely suicidal. So uh. yea. There's that.
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On March 08 2012 10:28 sam!zdat wrote:
Don't ever do anything until you've thought seriously about what it is and why you're doing it.
Yes this is exactly what I mean. If you have seriously considered the implications and are fine with it and see more benefit than harm then I see no reason why you can't partake because it is your body and as long as it is what you want and you have reasons then I see no reason to disallow it.
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Forget about all these issues and just have fun with your GF and enjoy your relationship. So who cares if you have differing opinions on some random stuff? People are different, they've been raised differently, and have different opinions about things. If you don't like discussing it because you're both close minded about your opinions, then just don't discuss them. Don't let small things like this get in the way of an otherwise healthy relationship.
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On March 08 2012 10:23 AbstractVoid wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 10:09 dAPhREAk wrote:
thought it would be a girl blog, turned into drug debate. sad panda.
opinion on drug use - shouldnt use them unless doctors tell you to use them. even non-prescription drugs, and especially illegal drugs.
major problem - addiction, side effects.
legalization - your question is overly broad. no, they should not be legalized in general. there may be some arguments for specific drugs if medical uses are identified (e.g., marijuana), but doctor involvement should still be required. Sorry for the disappointment I was going to focus on the girl issue but it got dwarfed by the whole ideological debate. What is your argument to counter the fact that tobacco and alcohol and even caffeine are legalized but marijuana is not? Where is the proof that those drugs are any less harmful than marijuana (there is no proof) why does it make sense to be selective? Why do we have to baby our citizens? Shouldn't they be able to make their own choices on what they put into their bodies? Why is it our concern as long as they are responsible and don't endanger others?
im not really all that interested in getting into this huge debate over drug legalization, but i'll answer your questions briefly. personally, i don't take any drugs that are unnecessary because of health concerns (liver <3), including non-prescription and prescription drugs. just a personal choice. so, that is where i am coming from.
i dont see why marijuana is banned, but alcohol and tobacco arent. i have no argument to support or deny it, because i really dont care. if it was on the ballot, i am not sure i would even vote, because i dont care.
proof? i love how you ask a question and answer it in the same question. makes me think there is no point in even discussing it. another reason i am not that interested in getting into a debate.
baby our citizens? because the average citizen is a moron. they would pour pesticides all over their yard if we didnt ban it. then they would sue the pesticide manufacturers.
should they make their own choices? yes, as long as i don't have to pay for their health care. so, get rid of universal health care, other related social services, and then im on board with them fucking up their own lives.
our concern? see answer above. don't make it my concern, and i won't be concerned.
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Ask her if she thinks that taking her hypothetical child (who is using drugs) and putting him in a cage where he has to be subjected to the most violent and depraved members of society, while witnessing and possibly being a victim of assault, rape, and other violence, and have his future completely decimated - whether that is going to help solve drug use.
Putting people in prison only teaches them how to be violent criminals, and promotes more drug use to deal with the unbelievable amount of stress being in jail causes. Drug abuse is a medical problem, not a criminal one.
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I voted no on the poll because I see no reason why LSD or Meth should ever be legalized.
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On March 08 2012 10:34 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 10:23 AbstractVoid wrote:On March 08 2012 10:09 dAPhREAk wrote:
thought it would be a girl blog, turned into drug debate. sad panda.
opinion on drug use - shouldnt use them unless doctors tell you to use them. even non-prescription drugs, and especially illegal drugs.
major problem - addiction, side effects.
legalization - your question is overly broad. no, they should not be legalized in general. there may be some arguments for specific drugs if medical uses are identified (e.g., marijuana), but doctor involvement should still be required. Sorry for the disappointment I was going to focus on the girl issue but it got dwarfed by the whole ideological debate. What is your argument to counter the fact that tobacco and alcohol and even caffeine are legalized but marijuana is not? Where is the proof that those drugs are any less harmful than marijuana (there is no proof) why does it make sense to be selective? Why do we have to baby our citizens? Shouldn't they be able to make their own choices on what they put into their bodies? Why is it our concern as long as they are responsible and don't endanger others? im not really all that interested in getting into this huge debate over drug legalization, but i'll answer your questions briefly. personally, i don't take any drugs that are unnecessary because of health concerns (liver <3), including non-prescription and prescription drugs. just a personal choice. so, that is where i am coming from. i dont see why marijuana is banned, but alcohol and tobacco arent. i have no argument to support or deny it, because i really dont care. if it was on the ballot, i am not sure i would even vote, because i dont care. proof? i love how you ask a question and answer it in the same question. makes me think there is no point in even discussing it. another reason i am not that interested in getting into a debate. baby our citizens? because the average citizen is a moron. they would pour pesticides all over their yard if we didnt ban it. then they would sue the pesticide manufacturers. should they make their own choices? yes, as long as i don't have to pay for their health care. so, get rid of universal health care, other related social services, and then im on board with them fucking up their own lives. our concern? see answer above. don't make it my concern, and i won't be concerned.
I understand the health reasons for not doing them and I personally don't do them so I understand and respect that decision.
Well yeah I can see how people who aren't involved wouldn't care at all and that is probably why nothing will ever be changed as most people don't care enough and if they do they are on the negative side for religious/family reasons.
The average citizen is indeed in need of some information, but I don't see the point in further supporting ignorance by attempting to become a nanny state. Look at SK trying to limit gaming time, this should be a personal or parental choice not something that government needs to intervene on.
What increases your costs more when you think about it rationally addicts being stuck without treatment or awareness until it is too late and they need help badly and all the injuries, violence and loss of life caused by trafficking or having available and regulated sources and having open discussion and treatment centers and awareness programs?
I do understand that people are wary of the potential costs of us "paying for people fucking up their lives" but how is this any different from people already sitting at home collecting social security while spending their money on booze and cigarettes? The Social Security system is already in dire need of revision and this problem isn't limited to my example.
On March 08 2012 10:40 Fishgle wrote:
I voted no on the poll because I see no reason why LSD or Meth should ever be legalized.
Meh fair enough but these drugs would still benefit from open treatment centers and better programs to raise awareness and promote treatment than just being left alone to be abused.
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On March 08 2012 10:40 Fishgle wrote:
I voted no on the poll because I see no reason why LSD or Meth should ever be legalized.
Two drugs could not be more different.
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EPT
