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Tipping the Scales

Blogs > Duckvillelol
Post a Reply
Duckvillelol
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Australia1240 Posts
February 11 2012 03:44 GMT
#1
It's always a fun time when a new patch / upcoming changes / situation report comes out from Blizzard. Theory crafters spin their wheels and play their new builds and ideas through their head then never actually play the game, folks who think that 2 base mass cannon into voidrays make outrageous claims, and forums such as TeamLiquid and Reddit are abuzz with claims of "IMBA!", "OMG!", "What about me!" and other various comments.

[image loading]
Yes, Fungal does snare Archons

I like to sit back and read through the changes myself, listen to the community, and read what people think. Is this change really that bad? Does this change secretly have a butterfly-effect that changes the way something else works? My favourite memory (in the still growing times of SC2) is when Archons were changed to be massive. For the first hour or so of the change - the main theme of posts from Protoss players mainly revolved around the fact that they could be useful in PvP now - given that you could waltz over a forcefield and continue a battle. It wasn't immediate, but shortly after some people realised that it also meant that Archons could now not be slowed down by Concussive shell - a huge change for that matchup. Some folks who were on the cusp of "genius" and "complete moron" pointed out that Phoenix could no longer lift Archons up - and some people made claims that fungal wouldn't snare Archons anymore.

Many of these claims were brilliant, some were average, and (as noted at the end) some were insane. But it shows how minor tweaks to a game can adjust the way we think, provide new ways for people to theorise outside the box, and best of all - make changes to the way we play this fantastic game which cause us to move ever closer to the holy grail of any RTS game - perfect racial balance.

In this post we're going to have a look at the latest 1.4.3 "Situation Report" post from the quizzical David Kim from Blizzard, having a look at what is changed, and what "butterfly effect" things could come in down the line - and I'm going to include comments from my awesome followers on Twitter who were kind enough to share their thoughts. But first, I need a coffee, and you may need a link to the Blizzard blog post.


We have the technology, we can rebuild him.

It's interesting to me that 2 of the planned changes (Phoenix and MULEs) are something that seem to have been pushed to the side and forgotten about previously. Like having a small stabbing in your shoe - you know it's a tiny splinter or something and it's annoying - but you just don't have time or energy to do something about it. Well it seems that Blizzard have taken off their shoes, are removing their socks and are attempting to remove the splinter - and it's about time. The Sniper Round change is probably most controversial, and the APM change... well... do you really care or are you just trying to impress girls?

Overall I think the changes listed are solid, however the main topic of discussion across TL and Reddit have been regarding the change to Sniper Round.

Snipe damage changed from 45 to 25 +25 Psionic

Snipe has almost become a living entity in SC2 - mainly in TvZ - where it has been utilised by some of the high level pro's to decimate late-game Zerg armies. 6 months ago we started to see the high level Zerg players come from the shadows and start to hold back until that magic Broodlord/Infestor army was maxed out with nice upgrades. Then, amazing Terrans such as MMA, MVP and even Select came along and took the matchup by storm (no pun intended) - using Snipe to shoot down the floating stingrays of the sky, and then either sniping or EMP'ing Infestors on the ground, rendering them useless. This was causing quite a lot of distress for Zerg users - how do you beat a unit that can mow down my units from afar within seconds, which can also cloak if required? The inclusion of Overseers in late game Zerg came about which certainly helped - but realisitically it is an extremely difficult task to take down the Ghosts before "the damage is done" given the large range of Snipe, the high damage and the ease of shift-clicking a bunch of ghosts to roll across a battlefield sniping down units left, right and center. Fungal can be used in some cases, but isn't a realistic option, and of course neither is Neural Parasite (does that ever get used anymore?).

[image loading]
Shoot down the Stingray! For Steve Irwin!

The damage change to snipe has generally gone down with the community to the tones of "too much of a change" and "this kills late game TvZ, now I need to stop Hive tech or it's GG". Justified claims? I can't really comment with certainty - my Terran skills are somewhere around a gold level - but from my "caster knowledge codex" this could be true. It will be a little more troublesome for Terrans to deal with late game Zerg - with snipe only dealing 25 damage to Broodlords now, this changes things quite a lot. I think if memory serves me right, it now takes 21 snipes to kill an Ultralisk, up from 11/12. I think we may see a little shift back to higher Viking numbers in TvZ, and perhaps more "care" about Ultralisk switches too - now with no snipe, if a Zerg times a switch correctly and can control those lumbering beasts correctly, they could become a force to be reckoned with.

In TvP the change isn't a huge one, though it is worth keeping in mind an incredibly important fact - Motherships can now be shot down with only 16 snipes instead of 18. This is just absolutely massive. *Queue trollface*

MULEs now harvest the same amount of minerals on both high yield minerals and normal minerals.

Definitely required in my opinion. Gold bases are seemingly becoming a thing of the past in all of the recent tournament maps - they just provided way too much of a bonus to Terrans who expanded to them swiftly. Sure there were some interesting and daring strategies used by some people - building a fast CC beside destructible rocks so you can MULE a gold to pull ahead in minerals - but gimmicky things like this are dangerous, and I'm sure they provided a headache for map makers if they actually wanted to put them in.

To be honest I am still - after 1.5 years - undecided about my feelings towards "Gold minerals". It seems like an interesting mechanic to think of initially, but when you really break it down it seems to provide more issues than "good macro mechanics and strategic questioning" that I think it was intended for. Hopefully with this adjustment things will change and it will feature more in pro-level competitions, and we might be able to truly see what Blizzard were after when they introduced this mechanic.

Phoenix now has a range upgrade at the Fleet Beacon

As a Protoss I certainly do welcome this change, Mutalisks can be difficult to deal with at the best of times, and downright nasty in the hands of a pro. I'm just not sure this is exactly "feasible". I might have to play around on the PTR with this one - it just seems like the Fleet Bacon was an odd place to put it. Perhaps we may see some Carrier-based builds from time to time? I can't be certain, but I doubt it - Carriers are still too risky without a solid plan in mind.

[image loading]
Mmm, Fleet Bacon. Wait, what?

I'm just concerned for a common situation: Protoss player goes for a FFE with a stargate follow up. He builds 3 Phoenix to play around with, tries to scout and pick up some Queen kills, standard thing. At the X minute mark he scouts out the Spire, meaning that Mutas are a chance very soon. He then has to put down the Fleet Bacon (300/200) and then after that is done (bearing in mind the 60 second build time for a Fleet Bacon, and the 100 second build time for a Spire) the "Extended Phoenix Lance" upgrade is required, perhaps 100/100 to purchase. This then needs time to upgrade, meaning at least 60 seconds (at a guess). 11 Mutas will be out at that point, and coming towards you. What if they aren't? What if during your panic to counter the Mutas, the Zerg leaves the Spire as a simple reactionary structure to deal with Colossus?

I'm not sure, but perhaps this upgrade would be better suited to the Twilight Council? This means that a Protoss needs to make a choice about their Twilight upgrade, do you want Blink to do some harassment and deal with roach forces? Or do you want charge for some prism harassment? Or will you get the Phoenix upgrade to deal with mutas? Obviously this "choice" only rings true at the start of the game, but I feel the dynamic would be a bit nicer than plonking it on the last tech-building which is a huge investment.

The voice of the people!

I asked some of the fine folks on Twitter what they thought of the changes, here are some of those with some comments from me

@Rollinthunder - Mules not gathering more minerals on gold is bullshit., Breaks game lore. Need to remove gold bases to make it fair.

I didn't even think of "Game Lore" when it came to this change - of course Blizzard doesn't either, but I think the change does need to be tried before full removal of the gold minerals - we don't want another change like Carriers now!

@HanzoSC2 - Mule's nerf is OK but I've got the feeling they push it a bit too far concerning the ghost snipe. Let's see how it goes...

I agree, I think it's a touch too much, removing some of the Ghost versitility is possibly a bad move - units should always have multiple roles if possible, that seems to be a problem with some SC2 units, they fill "one role" and that's it.

@ZergSamurai - I'm very pleased with the Phoenix upgrade I really did think mutas were Imba vs toss Happy with snipe and mule nerfs too

Indeed, Mutas are very damaging if you don't have the right counters, hoping that the change isn't too far "down the tree" to be reliable to defend against them though.

@deadly_platypus - ghosts are now officially useless with nerfed emp and now snipe :/

It's interesting to look at how the EMP nerf has effected this patch - we had one patch to help TvP, and now another to help TvZ - when are we going to hit a balance with the Ghost unit?

@eRonin - Ghosts not being able to counter mutalisks, zealots and banelings is kinda iffy

I'm not exactly sure about countering Muta's, but I know in a clutch situation they were nice to snipe down the Mutas and also Banelings. This is gone now! :O

@fernando_takai - good patch, but the nerf on snipe is too big. Maybe 25 + against non massive.


This is probably the best suggestion that came about on the forums after the patch changes were listed. With a bonus against Massive units that means that Ultras and Broods can still be brought down - however I feel as though hitting for 50 on Massive units is still quite a lot, maybe a little lower would do the trick?

@Bradf912 - the phoenix upgrade... yeah after i drop the 300/200 just to get the fleet beacon then more to get 2 more range. not worth it

This is exactly what I was thinking, it seems like the investment and time taken to try and counter Mutas - and what benefit does it serve outside usage against Mutas?

@mfbenson1 - the mule nerf is interesting. Everyone always said nerf mules, but nobody said nerf them this way.

What was the other suggestions? I think it was to reduce their move speed or something weird like that? I'm not sure, I think either way this will be the best solution.

Sands through the hourglass

One this for sure is that time will tell how this plays out. Will we see a new trend in PvZ with more Phoenix and possibly Carrier action? Will we find out that MULEs actually weren't too bad with gold and things change back, or will gold's start to fully disappear as they have started to recently? Will Ghosts lose all versatility and usefulness, and retire to Florida?

DUCKVILLE

PS: Wondering what you guys would think if the Sniper Round range was changed from 9 to 8?

**
Former SC2 commentator. youtube.com/duckvillelol
Mr. Black
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States470 Posts
February 11 2012 04:19 GMT
#2
Is the mothership a biological unit?
Make more anything.
Duckvillelol
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Australia1240 Posts
February 11 2012 04:41 GMT
#3
On February 11 2012 13:19 Mr. Black wrote:
Is the mothership a biological unit?


It's massive/psionic/armored/mech
Former SC2 commentator. youtube.com/duckvillelol
Jesushooves
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada553 Posts
February 11 2012 05:57 GMT
#4
I am most worried about phoenix colossus now. That shit is so strong TT.
Lose its good, after will be win.
Selendis
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia509 Posts
February 11 2012 10:03 GMT
#5
As a protoss player, I feel that this upcoming patch is somewhat redundant. I can't comment on the higher echelons of play but I feel that the game is pretty well balanced at the moment; there is no 'gamebreaking invinvible strategy' out that I can adopt nor have trouble defeating.
Probes are sooo OP
FastEddieV
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States614 Posts
February 11 2012 11:40 GMT
#6
On February 11 2012 12:44 Duckvillelol wrote:
Show nested quote +
@fernando_takai - good patch, but the nerf on snipe is too big. Maybe 25 + against non massive.


This is probably the best suggestion that came about on the forums after the patch changes were listed. With a bonus against Massive units that means that Ultras and Broods can still be brought down - however I feel as though hitting for 50 on Massive units is still quite a lot, maybe a little lower would do the trick?


I think he means non-massive, so ghosts still devastate the medium-level and small bio units like muta / banes but it isn't very useful vs broods and ultras. Which is a suggestion I like.
platinum? more like leaf
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